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ottoboy
08-23-2013, 12:10 AM
I have a 2004 and its giving me some grief. The power is intermittently cutting out on steep hills and at high speeds. Does anyone have any insight? I'm thinking its something to do with the turbo.

autostaretx
08-23-2013, 12:22 AM
Quite possibly/probably a leaking Turbo Resonator
($30 from http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002E323DS/ref=ox_ya_os_product )
or $130 for never-dies aluminum from:
http://www.amazon.com/DODGE-FREIGHTLINER-SPRINTER-RESONATOR-ELIMINATOR/dp/B0045ZIHJC/ref=pd_sbs_auto_1

or a split hose between the resonator (plugged into the turbo) and the intake manifold.

Your scangauge/ultragauge is probably reporting (effectively) no boost (i.e. MAP near 15 psi) when you have no power.

--dick

skill3
08-23-2013, 12:49 AM
If you want to save yourself some grief, replace the following:

Hose-turbo to intercooler
hose-intercooler to intake
turbo resonator

They probably need replacing anyway.

If you have a CEL, get the codes scanned with a DRB III or Snap On scan tool.

ottoboy
08-23-2013, 03:52 PM
Thanks for the responses. I'm installed a resonator eliminator and the problem was unaffected. All the hoses looked ok, but I'll replace the suggested ones and see if that helps.

autostaretx
08-23-2013, 05:35 PM
As another thread demonstrated, sometimes simply slightly displacing the hose clamp during turbo-to-hose reassembly can create a leak.

Since i assume you have some run-time since putting in the eliminator, inspecting the hoses very carefully for small splits where you can't see them might target the spot.
As they say in the medical biz: "palpitate"

--dick

ajakapari
08-23-2013, 09:59 PM
its the EGR trust me!!!!clean ot replace it will be fixed

ajakapari
08-23-2013, 10:00 PM
I have a 2004 and its giving me some grief. The power is intermittently cutting out on steep hills and at high speeds. Does anyone have any insight? I'm thinking its something to do with the turbo.

EGR

surlyoldbill
08-23-2013, 11:03 PM
I thought the 2004-2006 EGRs were self cleaning?

Aqua Puttana
08-24-2013, 12:25 AM
I thought the 2004-2006 EGRs were self cleaning?
They are, and a different design than the more often problematic NAFTA 2001 - 2003 EGR type.

Other than an earlier recall I believe that the 2004 - 2006 EGR's are generally reliable as compared to the older style.

That said, an EGR problem can cause a general loss of power so the EGR as a contributor should not be dismissed off-hand.

My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it. vic

CJPJ
08-24-2013, 12:49 AM
My opinion and worth everything you'll never pay for it. vic O I paid already by reading this dry boring tedious text

:smilewink:

Aqua Puttana
08-24-2013, 01:13 AM
O I paid already by reading this dry boring tedious text

:smilewink:

And I thought that my reply was fairly concise and to the point. :bash:


:rolleyes:

:cheers: vic

surlyoldbill
08-24-2013, 04:28 AM
Others have been able to fix power loss by cleaning their 04-06 EGRs?
I just want to file away the information for later spewing.

Aqua Puttana
08-24-2013, 11:25 AM
Others have been able to fix power loss by cleaning their 04-06 EGRs?
...
Yes. Depending upon the issue. The valve plate can sometimes get sticky. In that case people have reported that cleaning with carbeurator cleaner or solvent has worked.

With the valve removed (do NOT remove the security fasteners) you simply manually rotate the spring loaded valve plate and let it go. If it doesn't snap back to a closed position then cleaning may help. So far my 2004 OM647 EGR valve has not needed the periodic cleaning suggested by others for the 2001 - 2003 OM612 engines.

There have also been reports of the EGR manifold passages needing cleaning. Again, at about 230,000 miles as far as I could view the passages looked good to me when I had my EGR out. As time and miles pile on dirty passages may become a more common problem. :idunno: vic

ottoboy
08-24-2013, 07:43 PM
I removed and inspected both, the turbo to intercooler hose, and the intercooler to intake hose. They both seem to be in good shape. If it was the EGR valve would the power loss be constant or intermittent? The vehicle sounds very much like the turbo just cuts out for a moment, then jumps back into action for another moment. It runs fine up to 60 or 65mph, until there is steep hill or if I push it up 70mph or higher. It's also worse now than when I first noticed it happening (happens at lower speeds than before, and more frequently). Thanks for all replies so far, more insight will also be greatly appreciated.

Alchemist_Dad
08-26-2013, 12:39 PM
My '06 T1N 2500 140" WB is just shy of 144k miles. I have now gone through two intercooler-to-engine hoses, and about to install a third. Is this normal? Does anyone have a suggestion for a longer-lived silicone hose? Or should I install some hose clamps along the length of the hose?

Aqua Puttana
08-26-2013, 01:38 PM
That seems like a lot of hose failures. Do you often run heavily loaded? Do you drop down a gear on longer uphill runs?

... Or should I install some hose clamps along the length of the hose?
I had the same idea, but used cable ties because they are cheaper. Just by observing the bulging between the tie points I think that it is helping. That said, I have no control data to compare with for this harebrained scheme. vic

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=60376#post60376

Alchemist_Dad
08-26-2013, 02:58 PM
Hi, AP! I knew I could count on you.

No, I would not say the van is heavily loaded. The heaviest that I've ever loaded it was transporting ~500-1000 lb of stuff with ~800 lb of passengers from Miami back to the hilly piedmont of South Carolina. This is my wife's child transport, so it probably has ~600 lb in it most of the time. About once a week, I have to transport trash down to the dump, maybe ~100 lb on a ~300 lb trailer.

There aren't many uphill runs, but yes, I do drop to 4th at less than 50mph (sorry, I don't know the km/h conversion) to try to keep it up above 1800 rpm most of the time. I have recommended this to my wife, no idea if she does it too.

I guess I just have bad luck with intercooler hoses. I'll probably copy your cable tie idea, and see if that works better for the next 80k miles.

autostaretx
08-26-2013, 04:24 PM
How are your engine mounts?
Is the engine shifting with relation to the "fixed" Sprinter frame/body and attached radiator?
(thus unduly flexing the hoses)

--dick

Alchemist_Dad
08-26-2013, 04:36 PM
autostaretx,

How would I measure the shifting, etc? Grab the cold engine with my hand and push on it?

autostaretx
08-26-2013, 06:49 PM
How would I measure the shifting, etc? Grab the cold engine with my hand and push on it?
No, you're far too weak... stand in front of Sprinter with hood open and engine running in Park or neutral.
Handbrake ON.

Have a helper (lightly) "gun" and/or "pulse" the engine (rrREV, coast, REV, coast) (1500 to 2000 rpm max)

Observe how much the engine shifts (and in which directions) during the up/down speed changes.

Compare to other vehicles to get a sense of what "reasonable".

Also (be careful here... perhaps stand to the side) engage the transmission (shift to D and/or R) WHILE STANDING ON THE BRAKES (and handbrake applied) and give it a *little* bit of fuel to bring the revs up from the idle 675 to perhaps 800 or so... see if the "resisted twist" of the driveline moves things significantly.

For your particular issue, watch the hoses, too (perhaps they're doing something odd... like collapsing (turbo lag))

--dick

CJPJ
08-26-2013, 07:06 PM
How would I measure the shifting?

Visually observe the motors movement by torque the motor. Have a assistant rev the engine with it in gear "D" and the Brakes are firmly applied. Some restrained engine rotation is normal through the rubber motor mounts but not enough to unduly flexi the hoses.

CJPJ
08-28-2013, 03:21 PM
I removed and inspected both, the turbo to intercooler hose, and the intercooler to intake hose. They both seem to be in good shape. If it was the EGR valve would the power loss be constant or intermittent? The vehicle sounds very much like the turbo just cuts out for a moment, then jumps back into action for another moment. It runs fine up to 60 or 65mph, until there is steep hill or if I push it up 70mph or higher. It's also worse now than when I first noticed it happening (happens at lower speeds than before, and more frequently). Thanks for all replies so far, more insight will also be greatly appreciated.

"Constant or intermittent?" Yes; as the Valve is constantly adjusting opening or closing adjusting the combustion temperatures, too high or to low is not good. I believe @ high loads the valve is to close itself. If the valve is sticking or slow to close it could also cause a rough engine idle.

:2cents:

Ininkus
09-01-2013, 07:40 PM
Just my experience after fighting this same limp home mode:

Mine would go into limp mode randomly and intermittently. Sometimes I thought it was only hot days, sometimes only under pressure, and sometimes I thought it was only on full moons... and then the next day I'd be proved wrong all over again. (Also, no codes for me)

I cleaned the EGR, it didn't change anything.

After spending way too much time researching, testing, speculating, and driving myself nuts; I ordered all the hoses (Air Box to Turbo / Turbo to Cooler / Cooler to Intake) and also the Intake Air Temp Sensor.

Installed them all and problem has never returned. :thumbup: Of course, now I'll never know exactly what the problem was, but I'm okay with that.

Good luck!

Courier
09-03-2013, 09:51 AM
Hi Ininkus,
I am a newbie on Sprinter and diesel w turbo and recently has limp mode symptom. My mechanic has no appropriate MB scanner so I have to find a suitable shop. Just to give me an idea, about how much did you spend to replace all those hoses? Thanks

Aqua Puttana
09-03-2013, 11:15 AM
Off the top of my pointy head ballpark numbers, on-line. Dealership numbers would be higher.

Turbo resonator TR non-OEM Dorman - 30 bucks
top hose 3 pc set - 100 bucks (typical symptom = LHM under heavy acceleration)
turbo hose - 25 bucks

Some hose selection info is here.
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=74832#post74832

Crank sensor - 30 bucks (typical symptoms = no start/no RPM shown upon cranking or engine stop when hot)

http://www.ebay.com/sch/6000/i.html?_nkw=sprinter+crank+sensor&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_rdc=1

Cam sensor - 100 bucks

http://www.ebay.com/sch/6000/i.html?_nkw=sprinter+cam+sensor&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_rdc=1

All parts are DIY possible installation. Rumor has it that the crankshaft sensor access is a bit tight. I haven't done one.

I carry a spare TR, crankshaft and camshaft sensor. I carry tire tube patches, tape, and braided picture wire for hose repair. The idea being that if I have it on hand, those parts will never go bad. (knock/touch wood) vic

vader
09-10-2013, 12:07 PM
hi , been looking at this site a bit lately with issues the same as yours . After checking all inter cooler / turbo charge hoses , vacuum leaks , turbo , turbo vacuum actuator movement , fuel filter , fuel rail o rings , maf sensor , o2 sensor and checking / cleaning all under bonnet electrical connectors the problem still existed . Local m b dealer is hit and miss , mostly miss , therefore I have not done a scan which may have saved sometime . the problem was a small vacuum / electrical solenoid type of thing behind drivers headlight and under the air box ( turbo vacuum compensating valve ) . To test this there is an atmospheric filter behind the heater valve , disconnect vacuum hose from the filter and plug with a bolt or similar . test drive the van at moderate acceleration and power will return should this be the problem . test on a steep hill under moderate acceleration ( to much throttle will send an overboost signal to ecu which in turn will give a limp home mode . I did not drive for long like this , about 10 mins max . 2005 413 cdi lwb hi-roof 2.2 lt om 611eng I think . conflicting info on the net does this motor have an egr valve and if so where is it ?

Aqua Puttana
09-10-2013, 01:10 PM
...therefore I have not done a scan which may have saved some time . the problem was a small vacuum / electrical solenoid type of thing behind drivers headlight and under the air box ( turbo vacuum compensating valve ) . To test this there is an atmospheric filter behind the heater valve , disconnect vacuum hose from the filter and plug with a bolt or similar . test drive the van at moderate acceleration and power will return should this be the problem . test on a steep hill under moderate acceleration ( to much throttle will send an overboost signal to ecu which in turn will give a limp home mode . I did not drive for long like this , about 10 mins max .
Going by memory, that compensating valve has come up a few times lately here. Thanks for the testing tip. I would think that Eric Experience's vacuum gauge on the turbo actuator hose would help point to the problem also.

2005 413 cdi lwb hi-roof 2.2 lt om 611eng I think . conflicting info on the net does this motor have an egr valve and if so where is it ?
I'm not at all familiar with your engine. My recollection is that EGR valves are not common on Euro models, but that may depend upon age. The EGR valve is standard on North American or NAFTA models.

I would expect that the EGR would be mounted in the immediate area of the intake manifold air hose. That is where the NAFTA EGR valves on the in-line 2.7L 5 cyclinder diesels are, on the right side facing the engine.

vic

Courier
05-11-2014, 07:06 AM
hi , been looking at this site a bit lately with issues the same as yours . After checking all inter cooler / turbo charge hoses , vacuum leaks , turbo , turbo vacuum actuator movement , fuel filter , fuel rail o rings , maf sensor , o2 sensor and checking / cleaning all under bonnet electrical connectors the problem still existed . Local m b dealer is hit and miss , mostly miss , therefore I have not done a scan which may have saved sometime . the problem was a small vacuum / electrical solenoid type of thing behind drivers headlight and under the air box ( turbo vacuum compensating valve ) . To test this there is an atmospheric filter behind the heater valve , disconnect vacuum hose from the filter and plug with a bolt or similar . test drive the van at moderate acceleration and power will return should this be the problem . test on a steep hill under moderate acceleration ( to much throttle will send an overboost signal to ecu which in turn will give a limp home mode . I did not drive for long like this , about 10 mins max . 2005 413 cdi lwb hi-roof 2.2 lt om 611eng I think . conflicting info on the net does this motor have an egr valve and if so where is it ?

Hi Vader:

Did you mean, "the small vacuum/electrical solenoid type of thing" solved your power loss problem?

Thanks