Crank no start

I have a 04 Sprinter 140 Passeger T1N
Note I park on a slanted drive way at home
I got in it the other day crank no start. try again started all seemed good drove all day and running around. next morning crank no start tried multi times.... felt the fuel lines and they felt soft. so I put a small hose i the tank with a rag as a seal and blew in and prssuresized the tank and it started right up. I got around for a few days like this , sometimes it started sometimes not. So talked with guys at Europarts SD and I was going to order a pick up pump for the fuel tank. he said I would change the fuel filter and lines at the filter first. did that, it started up fine when I was done , started it a few times no problem, next day go out no start ,had to crank it 4 times to get it to start.
have over 1/4 tank of fuel in it. dont want to do the tank pump job if not sure thats the issue, any ideas any one???????
Thanks,
zman

test reply

zmotoman,
You need to pull the fuel line that feeds into the fuel filter off, and simply turn on
the key. Have a pail or bottle ready as you should be getting a solid stream of fuel @
60-80 PSI.
If not, check the fuel pump fuse, and if that's good you will need to drop your fuel tank, and replace the electric fuel pump in the tank.
If you get fuel at the inlet to the filter, check the outlet from the filter (might need a length
of the proper size hose for this) and see if you get about the same fuel flow as before the filter.
Your '04 Sprinter, with the electric booster pump in the tank will have no issue getting fuel up to the high pressure pump on the front of the engine if all the lines are clear and the booster pump is working as it's designed to work.
Roger

Thanks Roger,

Will do those simple tests and post results.

How do you know if you have a heater on your pick up pump?
If it is the pick up pump that's the next question to order one.

Zman

Roger,

I just pulled the outlet line on the filter and turned the key on it filled a 12oz bottle in seconds. van starts but needs to be cranked a few times??? Next thing to check?

thanks for the help.

Crank position sensor....EGR valve.... could be any number of things.
Do you have a Scan Gauge II or similar?
Does anyone in the Tucson area have a DAD diagnostic unit.
The easiest way to find the best way forward from here is to get your 2004 Sprinter hooked up to a good T1N capable scan tool.
Obviously, you were under the impression (a lot of owners new to Sprinters have the same impression) that if it won't start, it must be because the fuel line to the engine is leaking back and there is no fuel at the front of the engine.

That scenario only occurs on the '02 and'03 OM-612 engines. Those earlier Sprinters do not have an electric (or any other kind) of booster pump and depend on the pump up at the top front of the engine to pull fuel all the way up from the tank. Any tiny vacuum leak, and no start due to no fuel at the pump.

Your OM-647 Sprinter (model years '04-'06) has a strong booster pump to get fuel up the high pressure pump on the top front of the engine.
Your booster pump seems to be working as advertised so your starting issue is not lack of fuel at the high pressure pump.

Is you engine turning over very slowly/sluggishly?
If so, charge your battery as even with the booster pump supplying lots of fuel to the high pressure pump, sometimes the engine does not turn over fast enough for the high pump to develop the required fuel pressure to satisfy the fuel rail high pressure sensor.
Is there any apparent fuel leakage around the seams in your high pressure pump up on the front of the engine.
A few of those have had the internal fasteners that hold the parts of the pump together loosen up.
If you find it's leaking there, get in touch with Dr. A (Andy Bittenbinder) at the Global Sprinter Centre.
He can rebuild your pump quite economically.
But I'll bet it's not a fuel issue.

Best thing to do is scan it.....then you will have an idea if it's perhaps the EGR is gummed up/not operating correctly, the crankshaft sensor not picking up the correct signal, lots of electronic and sensor type issues that a plain old nuts and bolts mechanic simply cannot deal with.
Even if you took it to your local Mercedes Benz authorized Sprinter dealer (I know, the tow would be a $$ + PITA) but they can hook your Sprinter up to the MB SDS diagnostic system (Star Diagnostic System) and read a lot of the sensors and tell you which one (s) are causing your starting issues.
They can read a lot of older codes that are stored in your ECM and that can lead directly to the current issue if you look at the newest first then work back in the history of your particular Sprinters stored Diagnostic Trouble codes.
Getting it scanned will save you buying a bunch of parts that aren't bad.
Just changing this and changing that can cost significantly more that if costs to have it scanned at an authorized Sprinter dealer.
Looks like there is a Sprinter dealer right there in Tucson:
MERCEDES-BENZ OF TUCSON
6001 E. SPEEDWAY BLVD.
TUCSON, AZ 85712
Phone: (520) 886-1311
Call and make an appointment for their service staff to run the MB SDS on your problem.
If you have a Dodge or Freightliner (could be either one in 2004 you might also check it there is a Dodge dealer still doing Sprinters, or a Freightliner Sprinter dealer near you.
Hope this helps,
Roger

Thanks Roger,
I have access to a scan tool. Will run a scan and see what's stored in vault codes. the van starts I can drive it all day and it runs good that's the funny part. Just after it sits she wants done help to start done times.

Will advise code read out.

Thanks again Roger.

zmotormann,
Here is the "effectiveness hierarchy" of the various scan tools:
Best: MB SDS (dealer only)
Better: DRB-II (I heard the Dodge dealers had these)
Good: DAD unit (from Dr. A) a recycled Carsoft device from Europe. Works well on T1N Sprinters as that is what it was originally designed for.
Snap On unit with the right attachments may be OK as well.
Scan Gauge II/ UltraGauge EM/DashDAQ Generic...not good for diagnostics, but work well to watch "on the road" performance. Can show low boost, maybe fuel pressure??
Other generic scan tools....almost worthless on a T1N...completely worthless on an NCV3.
Roger

I have not run a fault codes yet, my friend with the scan tool from Dr A( early version) have not hooked up yet.

see if this points to anything.

tried it in the morning crank no start 3 4 tries

4 hours later walk out it starts right up I drive it for 3 hours running around runs perfect. I didn't shut it off.

5 hours later walk out to leave turn key on every things lights up on dash turn key to start.

nothing.. not a sound just what's powered up by key on try 6 7 times nothing when key turned to start position.

check battery little low 12.6v put charger on there get up over 13.6v
try again a few times nothing.

leave it for a while, still l nothing. 45, min later leaving try it for ****s and giggles, starts right up???

next AM try it crank 2 3 times no state.. 4 try starts. runs

check and reseat grounds at battery and fire wall check cond. of copper ground under fuel filter all seems ok. I notice when I hook up the battery charger that something starts running or making noise up in engine dept. when jumper cables are attach ???
I hooked up a test light to the disconnected neg cable on the battery and run the test light as my jump and it lights up so there seems to be a draw in there// trying to isolate the circuit now???

I love my sprinter VAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the thing that runs with a boost from cables is the rad fan, you may have an error with the engine control unit software, and this can be corrected by sending the ECU to SOS Diagnostics, Oregon.

Or you might have a loose wire/ bad connection to or poor Crankshaft timing sensor,

Or you may have water in the filter, open the bottom drain valve and see if it's all diesel or some water at first.

Ok I thought I had this sorted out, when the key was in the crank position and there was no cranking by wiggling the key it would crank... sometimes start sometimes just crank..
I bought a new ignition switch $40 installed thing started up 30 times drove it for hours all good stopped later in the day try restart... will not crank.... check battery 12.5v get a jump starts right up
drive home all good I go out later get a new battery and put it in it in wont start.... jump it starts right up... get home charge all night come out in am cranks 4 - times no start on 5th nothing as usually all the lights on dash come on and key to crank pos not a sound but after a few seconds with the key held in the crank position the ac van turns on...... tried a jump even thought battery is good nothing.... so I tap on the fuse box on the steering Colum and it starts to crank in small increment's like I was trying to index it....... I have swamped around the relays at the bottom there to see if it mad a difference. any ideas anyone???

my humble theory:
The column's fuse box may need to be pushed up while the hazard light and multifunction are pushed down to re-connect the two better, or replace the fusebox , it may be causing electrical gremlins/ drain/ shorting

Or it may be a bad brake switch connection or sensor

Thanks NelsonSprinter,
I will give it a go ..The bolt on the top is stripped so to remove the thing I have to deal with that. will try some pressure on fuse box and see what happens. and check other switchs as mentioned

Zman

Ok ran the fault codes on a launch diagnostic tool .

Read these codes first
B1040
B1041
B1042
B1470
B1010

Cleared faults and only b1040. Came back

No can communications

No power on any ECM fuses at steering colum.

With key on ac fan runs constant....

Where to begin???????

zmotomann said:

Ok ran the fault codes on a launch diagnostic tool .

Read these codes first
B1040 - CAN ECM
B1041 -CAN ABS/driving systems
B1042 -CAN TCM
B1470 - Fuel Sensor
B1010 - Airbag

Click to expand...

All are CAN related.

zmotomann said:

Cleared faults and only b1040. Came back

Click to expand...

That generally points to the ECM.

zmotomann said:

Where to begin???????

Click to expand...

abittenbinder said:

You need to understand that the aux cooling fan combined with no starter action is your best diagnostic clue.

The aux fan is triggered not only by A/C refrigerant pressure but also by high coolant temps.

This fan is activated by the HVAC module which receives coolant temp info from the Engine Control Module via the CAN com network.

If this fan turns on when you switch on the ignition AND the engine starter will not activate with a turn of the key- then the HVAC module is not receiving coolant temp which results in a worst case temp substitution and the aux fan is activated to 'save' the engine.

No coolant temp from ECM can be due to faults in the com network or a ECM which is not powered up or less likely, a faulty ECM.

Power and grounds to ECM can be checked with pin-out info at the body plug of the ECM. Com issues can be checked by using wiring diagram and CAN resistance values.

Most likely cause in most cases is power issue to ECM which trace back to the fuse/relay panel under the steering column or ground issues which trace to the body connection stud.

Doktor A

Click to expand...

If you click on the blue arrow in Andy's quote box it will take you to the thread he posted in.

vic

Awesome Thank You!!!!

I must mention this as now it is all starting to make a pattern.

1 ac has been acting funny

2 when I had the key in the crank position and tapped on the fuse panel on Colum it would try to start. click click

Where would I find the pin call outs on the ECU to trace out.

I do have the factory manual, but the diagrams in there don't look like fun to follow.

and it seems that the fuse panel is a source of a problem, where should I get one EBay? etc or take this apart and see whats up?


I am new to the fourm and am trying to learn to dig threw so much great info.


Thanks again!!!!!!
zman

zmotomann said:

Awesome Thank You!!!!

where should I get one EBay? etc or take this apart and see whats up?

I am new to the fourm and am trying to learn to dig threw so much great info.

Thanks again!!!!!! zman

Click to expand...

The ODB plugin is at the very bottom left of the dash, 10 o'clock to the brake pedal

eBAY has had fuse panels, so does Europarts-sd.com, Berry Dodge Sprinter Parts

Thanks,

I have the factory manual what I am looking for is the info to trace the wires in the ECU. Pin by pin to see what's what. I have a new fuse panel on the way. The one in there the top bolt is stripped. Hoping by changing the panel, charging the ac and topping of the coolant, clearing faults again Weill get my baby strait.

Very common for the top bolt to be stripped from overtightening.
Try inserting a flat screwdriver above/below the bolt to stop the turning of the other part which has a flat side, the flat screwdriver against it while turning the bolt might free it up.

Ok. So I got a new fuse block 1 on steering colum,
Installed it , van started right up . Ran it for a few minutes all seemed fine.
Turned off . Then that back to no crank no start aux fan turns on in key in crank pos.

Tried to run a scan and reader would not communicate with engine management or instrument cluster but did with abs and trans.

ALso found the plug on trans full of oil cleaned that and reinstalled . Trying now to get the pin call outs to check the modules.

Going online to Alldata was recommended to get a download of diagrams and pin ID.

Don't want to bring it to the dealer I feel I will be hammered pretty good. But the damn thing started and ran?

Any ideas are welcome!!