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sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 12:42 AM
I bought a 2004 sprinter 2500 (w/ 75k) a couple weeks ago, and today I tookit out on its first "long run"--from Abilene, TX to Tucson; but I never made it out of Texas...

I was cruising for hours with no issues at all, perhaps pushing it a bit - I wanted to see what it could do. Engine temps were steady between 180-190. Apparently I have a need to find out the hard way. I was in the left lane going up a slight grade doing 70 in what suddenly became dense traffic when the check engine light came on and the van just.... died. I managed to get through the other lanes and pull to the side. As I was doing so I heard a "downshift" sound from the transmission, and then the engine revved for a few seconds before dying.

I waited 20 min, checked fluids (except tranny fluid of course - stupid design) and started it up. With the flashers on I managed to limp 1/2 mile in 2nd to the local Pep Boys, where they found a number of error codes (see attached photos - note, only some appear to be "active" faults).

I know its due for trans fluid replacement at the very least, in fact Skill3 suggested I do just that BEFORE starting my journey here: http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27968&page=2. :o

The faults appear to be serious, so my questions:

Does someone have a recommendation for good service here? I need to be at work in Santa Cruz, CA on Monday!

Anyone care to recommend some measures I can take myself to try to fix the problem ASAP? I understand its most likely impossible to diagnose over the internets... but maybe someone has had a similar experience!

Thanks y'all... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIHRgisdbeY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

icarus
08-11-2013, 12:46 AM
You have to find someone with a proper MB scan system. Most generic scan tools will not report MB faults, and or not report them properly.

Icarus

sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 01:08 AM
You have to indexing someone with a proper MB scan system. Most generic scan tools will not report MB faults, and or not report them properly.Thank you Icarus!

I have been working long hours but have been wanting to educate myself here on the forum - that's what DAD is all about, right?

In the mean time, so I can limp home to California: can a freightliner or Dodge service center read these correctly? I'm looking up local resources right now.

Also: are you saying the fault codes themselves will read incorrectly, or that the descriptions of those codes will simply be incorrect? In other words, can I trust the numbers and cross-check them with some resources I have seen on this forum?

icarus
08-11-2013, 01:15 AM
Codes could be right, could be wrong, or could be nonexistent.

A Dodge or Fl dealer that sold or services Sprinters should Be able to, at the very least, red the codes correctly. Ai would try a number of starts and stops and see if it clears. I would also consider changing the fuel filter, checking the charge air hoses to and from the turbo, and perhaps the EGR.

Icarus

surlyoldbill
08-11-2013, 01:18 AM
It's possible that it blew out the resonator. Maybe this one never had the better resonator installed.
There is a smartphone app called Torque that will allow you to read some engine info in real time. It requires a bluetooth ELM327 adapter though (plugs into the OBDII port below the dash).

If you could check the boost pressure, you'd know. Also look around the resonator and other charge air hoses and connections for signs of a leak, it will have a slight oily residue, sometimes on a seam.

I suspect loss of boost pressure because it happened while going fast and then hitting a hill. The extra pressure given by the turbo may have been too much for the resonator or other component to handle.

icarus
08-11-2013, 01:20 AM
^X2 on the resonator! (charge air leak!)

Icarus

sailquik
08-11-2013, 01:25 AM
sprinterpirate:
Look for the simple things first!
Have you checked the turbo resonator for a crack around the top seam (there will be an oil trace along the crack normally.
Have you palpated all the turbo hoses (squeeze them with your hands) to look for a cracked or split hose)?
If you can find a Freightliner or Dodge Sprinter dealer, they may be able to help.
If you can find a Mercedes Benz Authorized Sprinter dealer, they will have the MB SDS (Star Diagnosis System) diagnostics that can pull the correct codes to identify the problem. Probably not on Sunday though!
Not sure what all the codes you provided mean, when they were generated, or whether they have anything to do with your current problem.
Short of the MB SDS system, you would need a DAD unit and a compatible laptop computer, or someone with a DRB-III and the appropriate cabling/modules to communicate with your Sprinter.
In regards to your questions, the codes could be old, or completely incorrect for the current issue.
They are generic, and you can look them up to see if they all lead in one direction. There are generic
codes on this site in the DIY section.
Roger

autostaretx
08-11-2013, 01:26 AM
From the codes displayed, it sounds like an intermittent wiring fault/failure.
It could be the "gas" pedal sensors, the connector attached to same, the cable harness to the injectors (connector near head), or a loose connector at the ECM itself.
I'd start there (crawl under near hood release, look up. The ECM is located just under that little "glove box" on the left dash).
See if the ECM connectors are firmly seated.

There used to be an *excellent* Dodge Sprinter dealer in Texas who'd post here in "the old days". I believe the dealership was sold and Sprinter service went downhill.
There's also Berry Sprinter: Berry Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram
1971 Texas 31
Corsicana, TX
75110
Phone: (800) 926-8254
Fax: (903) 872-2094
Hours of operation:
MONDAY-SATURDAY 8-6
------------------------

I see there's a Freightliner dealer in El Paso:
ON THE BORDER FREIGHTLINER
1367 N. HORIZON BLVD.
EL PASO, TX 79928
Phone: (915)852-4922
Toll Free: (800)778-7817
Wrecker: (915)852-6640
... i have no idea if they work on Sprinters, but many FL dealers have 7-day service depots...
(in which case, they *may* be able to read the codes, even if they're not a full-depth Sprinter service point)
------------------
Since it's willing to *run*, you could probably limp it home. (Mr Optimist speaking here...)
(although if it's a connector falling off, it may fully separate along the way (but that would make it easier to find))

memo: never drive a new (to you) Sprinter a long distance with a very short time deadline at the far end....

Since you (probably) didn't show us ALL the codes .. i also agree that it could be an intake air system leak.
What does your scangauge report about MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure)?

good luck
--dick
added: http://www.otbfreightliner.com/ OTB FL does have a 7-day service center. 8am-5pm Sat/Sun

sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 02:14 AM
There is a smartphone app called Torque that will allow you to read some engine info in real time. It requires a bluetooth ELM327 adapter though (plugs into the OBDII port below the dash).

Also look around the resonator and other charge air hoses and connections for signs of a leak

Thanks surly, actually torque is the app I got those codes from. The guy at pep boys had that bluetooth unit.

Thanks everyone for the quick suggestions! It started sprinkling and looks like rain is coming, so I'm going to find cover. As long as I keep it under 40mph or 2k rpm it limps around just fine - beyond that it just dies and then restarts tight away.

surlyoldbill
08-11-2013, 02:15 AM
Dick, good point, I forgot about the common (enough) loose ECM relay or bad connections on the fusebox under the steering wheel. BUT, wouldn't that cause a total shutdown, and not allow limping?

Also, I think others have said that traveling in LHM is not all that bad for the van, it's just very slow for you.

sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 02:34 AM
I see there's a Freightliner dealer in El Paso:
ON THE BORDER FREIGHTLINER
1367 N. HORIZON BLVD.
EL PASO, TX 79928
Phone: (915)852-4922
Toll Free: (800)778-7817
Wrecker: (915)852-6640
... i have no idea if they work on Sprinters, but many FL dealers have 7-day service depots...
(in which case, they *may* be able to read the codes, even if they're not a full-depth Sprinter service point.

memo: never drive a new (to you) Sprinter a long distance with a very short time deadline at the far end....

Since you (probably) didn't show us ALL the codes .. i also agree that it could be an intake air system leak.
What does your scangauge report about MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure)?

good luck,
--dickthanks dick!

Unfortunately that freightliner dealer doesn't have the ability to perform the scan. And I just left the dodge place and they have no mechs over the weekend, can't loan me their scan tool, and can't sell me mopar atf on Sunday because of some statewide "blue law". Wtf, anyone heard of this blue law? :what:

Apparently that was all the codes, the second photo shows the screen scrolled down to show one last code...

As far as the short deadline, I agree! Its like going on a backpacking trip with brand new boots! Unfortunately my work makes planning ahead all but impossible...

Thanks everyone, I will find a hotel room and get the old headlamp out. Hopefully I have good news to report soon. Although it makes sense what everyone is saying about the turbo resonator or connected air components... hopefully something I could tape up or jb weld for now bc I dont think service in any form is happening out here tomorrow!

And I dont think I could even safely limp home out here. People have a lot of space between destinations here - man do they drive FAST!

surlyoldbill
08-11-2013, 03:00 AM
Someone reported being able to keep their resonator together with tape and bailing wire. It was just enough to keep the crack from opening under internal pressure. Remember, duct tape is porous, and won't hold in air.

icarus
08-11-2013, 03:04 AM
Silicone tape is a miracles product! Give it a few wraps and it will fuse to itself and will carry considerable pressure on a torn hose or resonator, or even a rad hose! Several name brands including "Tommy Tape" . It should be in EVERYONE'S tool box!

Icarus

autostaretx
08-11-2013, 03:23 AM
Dick, good point, I forgot about the common (enough) loose ECM relay or bad connections on the fusebox under the steering wheel. BUT, wouldn't that cause a total shutdown, and not allow limping?
From the original post:the check engine light came on and the van just.... died. I managed to get through the other lanes and pull to the side. As I was doing so I heard a "downshift" sound from the transmission, and then the engine revved for a few seconds before dying.
Now, you have to ask yourself: did it *DIE* (i.e. electrical), or did it just lose all oomph? (air leak)
He said (twice) died. But it also "caught" during the pull-over.
Which leads me to think "intermittent electrical".

The limp might even go away if the codes were cleared (assuming all connections are back in place).
It may even go away after three successful engine off/engine start cycles.

The "throttle position sensor" error may be a "requires manual clearing", since it's a safety issue.
If i'd written the code i'd really try to get the drivers attention if i could not rely on both throttle potentiometers agreeing on how far down the pedal was pressed (did he want "idle" or "floor it"?).

Depending upon his schedule (etc), he could leave the van in El Paso, fly/train/bus to California, and then return to deal with it later.
If the Dodge folks appear/sound competent (heeerrrre, wallet, wallet....) he could leave it in a basket on their doorstep.
or
(perhaps at the FL dealer?) find a big rig dead-heading west with an empty flat bed...

good luck
--dick (have limped across the Canadian Rockies... the leak was "controllable" enough to await getting back home to Seattle for the resonator swap)

sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 03:36 AM
Hey dick, you have a point there.... it may be electrical. After tapping the mass air sensor and applying dialectric grease to it and another electrical connector it started up with no check engine light. Thats the good news... bad news on next post. The pics are of the two electric connectors.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/11/e9y8u8e5.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/11/te8etuza.jpg

icarus
08-11-2013, 03:37 AM
Good idea, find a truck stop and find a flat deck going west! Every mile further, puts you closer to home. Probably couldn't get a lift the whole way, but truckers net work might find you a series of rides?

I once drove a 1939 Mack fire engine from NJ to WI. I broke down in western OH. I found a local Mack dealer, and (after he offered me $500 for the truck (this was in 1975) he hooked me up with a OTR driver who took me nearly to Chicago. I found another guy to take me almost to my destination. it cost me a few bucks in "tips" to the driver.

Might be worth a shot,

Good luck and keep in touch,

Icarus

sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 03:41 AM
There is a leak though - oil showing just above the hose clamp for the big hose that goes from the turbo resonator to the air radiator.

I watched it while the guy at autozone (great guys at the auto part stores here!) revved the engine to 4k w/ parking brake on in neutral. Saw no active leaking, but there was no load on the engine. Took it for a drive with lots of accelleration to 45 in 2nd (4k rpm) and no problems.... but this is still disconcerting.

sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 03:41 AM
Pic of the leak above the hose:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/11/ete9uqe9.jpg

sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 03:44 AM
Haha Icarus I love the story, we'll see if it comes to that! In the mean time im picking up some silicone tape...

MillionMileSprinter
08-11-2013, 03:45 AM
Did I miss his "next post"? Where's the "bad news"?
*Never mind, he just posted the photo while I was typing my question*
Isn't that right near the turbo resonator? Hmmmmm.
I've been stuck out of town before, too. This list helped get me home and running again!
As soon as you can give us more accurate info from the ECU, we can start giving you more specific information.
Let us know how we can help!
Oh, wait. Here's how we can help- look at the link at the bottom of my signature and you can find the Scan Tool List. See if there's anyone near you who has a Sprinter specific scanner who can help you out.
Good luck!

autostaretx
08-11-2013, 03:52 AM
Pic of the leak above the hose:
That's your resonator seam leaking.

$30 from Amazon: Dorman 904-303 Turbo Dampener
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002E323DS/ref=ox_ya_os_product

$130 from Amazon or SprinterStore for aluminum never-dies version:
http://www.amazon.com/DODGE-FREIGHTLINER-SPRINTER-RESONATOR-ELIMINATOR/dp/B0045ZIHJC/ref=pd_sbs_auto_1

(i'm cheap... i have the $30 version).
You're like me... it doesn't leak until you overstress it (watch your MAP on your ScanGauge, stay below 26 psi)
So don't try to pass anything going up hill. Don't go over 70 mph (or, as mine became worse: 65 mph)

you'll probably make it home... (unless the harness damage is elsewhere on a harness)
--dick
p.s. you STILL haven't told us your model year... but the photos show it's yellow
(please put it in your signature block)
p.p.s neither of the two connectors you were tapping in the photos should affect the pedal or injector circuits.

MillionMileSprinter
08-11-2013, 04:02 AM
If it IS your turbo resonator, just get the 30$ one from Amazon. You would have to through 4 of them to equal the cost of the aluminum resonator eliminator. Buy two. Replace the bad one and keep one in your Sprinter just in case.

icarus
08-11-2013, 04:07 AM
Sounds like you are on the right track. I wonder what the source of the oil is, or if it just the accumulate of age?

I would buy some silicone tape, some more dielectric grease and head west! Tape the snot out of the resonator and drive gently, keeping the boost to a minimum, shift down in pleanty of time, pull the big hills w bit slower, with the four ways going! (I m terrified of driving too slowly on 4 lane. I got rear ended in a 67 VW bus, going 40 mph on the freeway (in th days of the 55 limit!) hit by a Vega, who skidded 152' before he hit me at 4:30 am, rolling the van up to the middle of the double doors!)

Icarus

surlyoldbill
08-11-2013, 04:38 AM
I don't have a resonator on my 03, so the guys with more experience can say if that's where it splits or not. It almost looks like it could be the hose clamp itself. They do strip out sometimes. Wouldn't it be nice if all it needed was a tightening?

sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 05:03 AM
Sounds like you are on the right track. I wonder what the source of the oil is, or if it just the accumulate of age?

I would buy some silicone tape, some more dielectric grease and head west! Tape the snot out of the resonator and drive gently, keeping the boost to a minimum, shift down in pleanty of time, pull the big hills w bit slower, with the four ways going! (I m terrified of driving too slowly on 4 lane. I got rear ended in a 67 VW bus, going 40 mph on the freeway (in th days of the 55 limit!) hit by a Vega, who skidded 152' before he hit me at 4:30 am, rolling the van up to the middle of the double doors!)
Icarus
Ouch! Thats exactly what I'm scared of! Yeah, that's my question, why is there oil running down from the resonator in the first place? Got the silicone tape--going to wait till I'm bright & bushytailed in the morning, clean it up good, then wrap the sh:yell:t out of it.
I don't have a resonator on my 03, so the guys with more experience can say if that's where it splits or not. It almost looks like it could be the hose clamp itself. They do strip out sometimes. Wouldn't it be nice if all it needed was a tightening?I wish Surly, but it definitely is the seam above the clamping point. I checked that clamp, hoping for exactly that!
That's your resonator seam leaking.
you'll probably make it home... (unless the harness damage is elsewhere on a harness)
--dick
p.s. you STILL haven't told us your model year... but the photos show it's yellow
(please put it in your signature block)
p.p.s neither of the two connectors you were tapping in the photos should affect the pedal or injector circuits.Thanks Dick, I appreciate the info. I am amazed at how everyone pulled together to help me out on this one--this is like nothing I have experienced before. I would have been lost, aimlessly changing out transmission fluid. In retrospect it seems obvious, but.... my brain just wasn't going there! Thank you

Oh, btw, its a 2004 freightliner-badged 2500 high top 140". I will change that signature! Purchase story: http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27968

Like Type2teach sez, I will go cheap; buy one to show & one to go.

Just made a Scan Tool Access Locater Map with Google Maps.
THIS IS OPEN TO ALL SPRINTER OWNERS WORLDWIDE. T1N AND NCV3.
THANKS!
Type2Teach this is incredible! I love this forum. Thank you for putting that map together. I see 1hen2ducks is near Jackson, CA - Sweet, I love them stomping grounds! I'm surprised there is no one in the SF Bay?!

:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow: :bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow: :bow: Thank you I will report back on progress...

surlyoldbill
08-11-2013, 05:29 AM
Oil in resonator is normal, the oily fumes go all the way through to the intake. It's also a good way to find the leaks!
Great that you pinpointed the problem, and that it's something simple. Order your new resonator or Riordan aluminum billet resonator NOW so it's waiting for you when you get home. I've heard they fixed the new resonators so they don't split.

skydiver007
08-11-2013, 10:32 AM
Oh yeah lets go buy another plastic resonator and hope that it doesnt die later on. I cannot believe that anyone would recommend replacing a known defective part on the Sprinter with one that will fail again.

Take the piece of crap off and replace it with the aluminum eliminator and never worry about it again.

Then when you have a problem, ignore the people here who tell you to check the resonator.

Sort of like they want it to fail or something. Makes no sense to me to put a known defective designed part on your van.

I went through 2 of them. You can never know if the POS is working properly if there is any oil in the area.

Back to your original post which no one apparently read.

If you are driving along and it just dies, suspect fuel delivery problems.

If you are driving along and it just goes into limp, suspect charge air leaks.

If a restart fixes it until you over boost it and the computer sees a loss of boost, it is a leak somewhere.

Linden Engineering in Colorado is probably the nearest expert from where you are. Waynerod is a lot further.

Whatever you do, dont start throwing a lot of money at it until you get an accurate code read.

Aqua Puttana
08-11-2013, 12:29 PM
...
Back to your original post which no one apparently read.

If you are driving along and it just dies, suspect fuel delivery problems.

If you are driving along and it just goes into limp, suspect charge air leaks.

If a restart fixes it until you over boost it and the computer sees a loss of boost, it is a leak somewhere.

Linden Engineering in Colorado is probably the nearest expert from where you are. Waynerod is a lot further.

Whatever you do, dont start throwing a lot of money at it until you get an accurate code read.
:thumbup::thumbup:



I'm on the same Turbo Resonator as came with the van. 6 years, over 60,000 miles with many trips towing my boat, 258,000 on the clock total. I have yet to need the spare TR I carry. (knock, touch wood) I don't believe the TR is terrible except for those who are always dealing with heavy loads such as a full blown RV conversion packed for vacation. Many more people run with a TR in place than don't. :2cents:

The TR seam can be fairly easily repaired with JB Weld. JB Weld has a higher temperature range than many other epoxies. Adding some sort of mesh like window screen or even thin wire pre-formed into an "S" or "Z" pattern to fit/mold over the edge(s) increases the strength. The plastic must be thoroughly cleaned of oil and roughed up to get good adhesion. The repair will get you home, if not further.

vic

MillionMileSprinter
08-11-2013, 12:47 PM
Oh yeah lets go buy another plastic resonator and hope that it doesnt die later on. I cannot believe that anyone would recommend replacing a known defective part on the Sprinter with one that will fail again.

....

Whatever you do, dont start throwing a lot of money at it until you get an accurate code read.

While I agree mostly with your last point, I guess you haven't been keeping track like I have of the resonator failures. AFAICT, the newest resonators (Q5) have a reinforced seam to prevent failures. Also, it appears that *most* failures are from people driving their vans too hard. There are plenty of members on the forum who haven't had resonator failures because they use their scanguage or other monitoring system to keep the LOD and MAP from getting too high.
I'm sorry you went through 2 of them. That would make me not trust them either, but not everyone has had your experience.

cahaak
08-11-2013, 12:51 PM
The new plastic TR are much more robust. I have a Q5 on mine(running fine for last 65K) and carry a spare Dorman model under the passenger seat (can hardly see the seem on it). If you have a spare, it doesn't take that long to change. If it is the TR, you can run pretty well with it as long as you watch the throttle. It will cruise fine on the flats, but you have to watch uphill or acceleration so you don't send it into LHM.

Chris

sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 01:48 PM
Alright, please pardon the length of this post. ***sound of worm can opening***
Whatever you do, dont start throwing a lot of money at it until you get an accurate code read.Hi Skydriver, thanks for chipping in. I agree, I definitely want to get to the bottom of this before I throw $ in the air!
Oh yeah lets go buy another plastic resonator and hope that it doesnt die later on. I cannot believe that anyone would recommend replacing a known defective part on the Sprinter with one that will fail again.

I went through 2 of them. You can never know if the POS is working properly if there is any oil in the area. You know, I was mulling it over before I got to sleep last night, and this sentiment does "resonate" well with my unease about buying a part that already broke on me, when I know there is a better replacement. After dumping $14k another $100 seems like a small investment to make it reliable...
You're like me... it doesn't leak until you overstress it (watch your MAP on your ScanGauge, stay below 26 psi)
So don't try to pass anything going up hill. Don't go over 70 mph (or, as mine became worse: 65 mph)I hope this isn't something I have to live by. I guess I'm trying to figure out the calibration of this particular canary (the resonator) to the workers in the coalmine (the entire mechanical system of my Sprinter)... I have philosophical objections to systems that are capable of delivering performance smoothly and beautifully, but aren't built durably enough to handle it. So what I'm wondering is, will MAP's over 26psi damage multiple components in the turbo system, or is the resonator simply the weak link? Did I buy a vehicle that isn't durable enough to withstand it's own performance, or does it just have a few weak links that can be addressed?
The new plastic TR are much more robust. I have a Q5 on mine(running fine for last 65K) and carry a spare Dorman model under the passenger seat (can hardly see the seem on it). If you have a spare, it doesn't take that long to change. If it is the TR, you can run pretty well with it as long as you watch the throttle. It will cruise fine on the flats, but you have to watch uphill or acceleration so you don't send it into LHM.

ChrisI like hearing that the new Dorman models are redesigned. I also like that they are called, "Turbo Sound and Vibration Dampener." I usually lean towards "performance" mods over OEM, but on the alu version the "sound and vibration dampening" function appears to be missing (my conjecture based on the difference in shape). Sometimes fancy performance products are LOUD, and I want a sprinter that "speaks softly and carries a big stick" if you will. Those of you who have the alu version: is the whine from the turbo louder than it was before? If I got the alu version, could I put sound insulation around it, or would the associated heat insulation reduce turbo performance?

One clarification I need is, what is "going into limp?" I was able to "limp" off the highway, but whenever I did push it over 45mph or over 2k rpm it died--this leads me to believe it wasn't in "limp mode" because the "limp mode on other cars I have had the privilege to witness (namely: Audi Allroad) actually prevented going over a set rpm/gear range. Does my guess sound right?
If you are driving along and it just dies, suspect fuel delivery problems.

If you are driving along and it just goes into limp, suspect charge air leaks.

If a restart fixes it until you over boost it and the computer sees a loss of boost, it is a leak somewhere.OK, folks, it could be all three of these! This is the part where Sherlock Holmes (y'all) learns that the primary witness (me) was withholding information. I didn't think it was relevant then, and I don't think its relevant now, but just in case: Yesterday and the day before I heard a strange vibration, or squeak. At first I thought, "its a belt!", but on closer inspection, the fuel lines from the fuel tank were vibrating, because two of the plastic clips holding them had broken. I ziptied them back in place and called it good. I still don't think its relevant to the current situation, but my conscience feels better now that I have given FULL DISCLOSURE!
Short of the MB SDS system, you would need a DAD unit and a compatible laptop computer, or someone with a DRB-III and the appropriate cabling/modules to communicate with your Sprinter.Roger, this statement opened pandora's box for me. I keep trying to go through the forum to research before asking dumb questions, but I gotta tell you, with regards to scan tools, this forum has a serious case of TMI! :bow::bow: Here is my vague basic understanding of scan tools:

MB SDS system - The "grail" of scantools, but available only to MB service stations
DRB-III - The Chrysler version of the MB SDS, works but $$$$$
DAD unit - Dr. A's excellent alternative to the above two
Scanguage II - Offers excellent real-time readings but limited on fault code delivery?
ELM327 - Some work, some don't. The ones that work *may* deliver fault codes well???

This is the ELM327 tool the guy at Pep Boys used: http://www.plxdevices.com/product_info.php?id=GSSTBLUETOOTH They are coming out with a new version that can be installed permanently, and can connect to all Android devices. Given the rate of app development and the recognized standard of ELM327, I'm thinking this *may* be a solution that will surpass all the above scan tools. Surlyoldbill, you have used the Torque app, does it provide you with the right fault codes?

From Wikipedia: The 1.0 version of the ELM327 did not implement copy protection, and the PIC code was copied[6][7] and widely sold in devices claiming to contain an ELM327 device. Numerous problems have been reported[8] with Chinese clones, partially due to bugs inherent in the early code.
Although these pirate clones may contain the ELM327 v1.0 code, they may falsely report the version number as the current version provided by the genuine ELM327, and in some cases report an as-yet non-existent version.[9] The actual function of these pirate clones is nonetheless limited to the function of the original ELM327 v1.0, with inherent deficiencies.

I get the feeling the PLX version is legit.
The TR seam can be fairly easily repaired with JB Weld. JB Weld has a higher temperature range than many other epoxies. Adding some sort of mesh like window screen or even thin wire pre-formed into an "S" or "Z" pattern to fit/mold over the edge(s) increases the strength. The plastic must be thoroughly cleaned of oil and roughed up to get good adhesion. The repair will get you home, if not further.
vicOK Vic, the auto parts store just opened up five minutes ago. Time to buy some of this http://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-plasticweld-putty/ and see if I can get on the road within a few hours. Or were you suggesting I use traditional jb weld? Isn't the resonator plastic?

Thanks folks,

Kris :rad: :popcorn:

Aqua Puttana
08-11-2013, 01:59 PM
...OK Vic, the auto parts store just opened up five minutes ago. Time to buy some of this http://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-plasticweld-putty/ and see if I can get on the road within a few hours. Or were you suggesting I use traditional jb weld? Isn't the resonator plastic?

Thanks folks,

Kris :rad: :popcorn:
I was referring to the "regular" JB Weld, but what you found may be even better. 500F rating. 600F for short jumps. I didn't find a different spec for the PlasticWeld.

They don't recommend the regular stuff for plastics, but I've found that it sticks well enough for most applications. It likely doesn't adhere well enough to meet their specs though. (It even holds on plastic fuel tanks for a couple months.)


http://www.jbweld.com/faqs/

Good luck. vic

skydiver007
08-11-2013, 02:33 PM
My only point is that if you install the eliminator, you never have to worry, and once you are in LHM one time and don't have a spare, you will spend more than the cost of the eliminator to get her going again. NO brainer to me.

skydiver007
08-11-2013, 02:42 PM
Also, looking at the codes you pulled, the only one I see that is important is the first. Looks like a fuel problem.

Not one of your codes relates to low boost. I doubt you have a leak unless you didn't provide all the codes.

The other codes you provided are for glow plug faults.

As I've said before, I have a DRB III and a scanguage II. The scauguage will put me in the ballpark and the DRB III gets all the information. The scanguage or other reader can give you good info, just be careful following the advice.

The codes about the throttle position I have seen them happen after you go into LHM. Example: you feel a loss of power and you press the gas for more power. If the power isn't produced, you get this error because the system thinks the pedal is pushed too far. There is a correlation between pedal push and expected power. When in LHM you will get this code.

sailquik
08-11-2013, 02:44 PM
Sprinterpirate,
OK, you have locked on to the situation with the Scan Tools to do the full MB level diagnostics.
#1 MB SDS with the ancillary modules to do a complete scan of all systems on a Sprinter....only available @ authorized Mercedes Benz Sprinter dealer shops. This also needs a really good tech who understands the systems and Sprinters fully.
#2 DRB-III not sure is this was ever a Dodge/Chrysler/Freightliner shop tool, but in the hands of someone like Dr. A, it is better a finding Sprinter issues than the DAD units.
#3 DAD unit.....recycled Carsoft units from Europe. These units are pretty specific to Sprinters, and if you get them working right and know how to get them to talk to all the various modules, they are very good.
#4 Scan Gauge II (also UltraGauge EM and Dash DAQ) these are much better at PREVENTING LHM events than they are at diagnosing LHM events. They are useful as a diagnostic tool because you can monitor the MAP pressure to see if it's low. If you only see 16-18 PSIA in the MAP PID, then you know that you either have a really major leak, or that the ECM has turned off the turbocharger actuator because it senses there is either too much boost or not enough boost. (Overboost vs Underboost will be sensed as "out of tolerance" by the sensors that feed the ECM and they will shut down the turbo by shutting off the control signals to the turbo actuator.
ELM?? I know nothing about!
Since you seemed to suggest that you were pretty much "on it", trying to get home to California, I suspect that you were running 75 mph, and trying to maintain that speed up and down hills. You suggest that you had to get from the fast lane to the shoulder of the road when it first cut off.
If you had been equipped with a Scan Gauge II (or similar) you would have been able to monitor the MAP (turbo boost level/pressure); the % engine LOD; and have an accurate digital read on the engine coolant temperature.
Watching those 3 PID's might have shown you that you were running at very high % engine LOD and at a boost level nearing the maximumof ~36 PSIA, and that your engine coolant temperature was rising even though the big viscous fan was knocking it back down.
So, it probably was not a "spike" in LOD or MAP or even the temperature that made whatever you find has popped actually "POP" and put you in LHM, but rather the length of time that you keep all these easily identifiable parameters at or near the OVERLOAD level.
That is the basic function of the ScanGauge II and similar devices....to give the driver some clue as to how hard he/she is running the Sprinter's drivetrain, and allowing you to slow down slightly, downshift to a better gear to handle the % LOD and High boost level, without long periods of hammering the Sprinter drivetrain at 100% or beyond.
Not getting on your case here, just trying to explain that yes (like ALL electro mechanical devices) Sprinters do have some limits, and unfortunately the design team chose NOT to give you any gauges that would help you to see when you are pushing those limits.
The ScanGauge II and similar devices fill in that information void and give you all the missing info to be able to tell when you are "using" your Sprinter vs when you are overloading and "abusing" your Sprinter.
Roger

sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 02:44 PM
My only point is that if you install the eliminator, you never have to worry, and once you are in LHM one time and don't have a spare, you will spend more than the cost of the eliminator to get her going again. NO brainer to me.
I agree the $ would be worth the peace of mind.

Skydiver, did you notice an increase in turbo noise when you upgraded?

autostaretx
08-11-2013, 02:48 PM
You're like me... it doesn't leak until you overstress it (watch your MAP on your ScanGauge, stay below 26 psi)
So don't try to pass anything going up hill. Don't go over 70 mph (or, as mine became worse: 65 mph)
I hope this isn't something I have to live by.
No... i was referring to my leaky resonator (until i could replace it). Mr. Leaky worked fine below 60 mph.
Prior to really splitting, i happily drove for years at 75 mph (when the speed limit said to...)
Now that i've replaced my broken Q4 with the Dorman, i'm only limited by the 82mph governor.
The Q5 was introduced in late 2005... i thought my 2005 Sprinter had one. Extraction revealed that it really had a Q4.

A second, previously unspoken, reason for me getting the Dorman was the *noise*.
The aluminum replacement would've added more turbo whine, which would have caused problems for my wife.
It's not the volume of additional sound (so much), but the high-pitched turbo whine would really nail her.
I vaguely recall that someone's post years ago had photos of a TR cut open (after failure).
There was quite a bit of "muffler-stuff" (slotted tubes, woven material) in there.
The aluminum replacement is "just a pipe".
Conversely, 2002 (Type2Teach) and 2003 (surlyoldbill) don't have resonators in the first place, so they're not deafening.

--dick

driveon
08-11-2013, 03:36 PM
I found online some reference Sprinter van fault code books available on Amazon .

There are two editions available

Volume 1- 2000-2006 Sprinter van codes
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Sprinter-Fault-Guide-Volume/dp/1451518676/ref=pd_sim_b_1/185-9298793-6090766


Volume 2 - 2007-2010 Sprinter van codes
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Sprinter-Fault-Guide-Volume/dp/1453745092

icarus
08-11-2013, 03:45 PM
I think all this talk bout what replacement Resonator to buy is an unfortunate sideline for the OP. He simply needs to ID the issue while n the road, be provided with a temp fix so he can get on the road home!

As has been stated before, JB weld, or other epoxy and or a bunch of wraps with silicone tape and he could BR on his way. He, (and everyone else) can debate the efficacy of certain resonator replacements once he gets home.

Good luck to Pirate!

Icarus

autostaretx
08-11-2013, 04:03 PM
If you are driving along and it just dies, suspect fuel delivery problems.
If you are driving along and it just goes into limp, suspect charge air leaks.
If a restart fixes it until you over boost it and the computer sees a loss of boost, it is a leak somewhere.
..and i agree 100% with the above (with the possible inclusion of:
If you are driving along and it just dies, and a scanner speaks of electrical issues, suspect bad connections. )

In every other car (ok, i'll throw in the Sprinter)... "just dies" certainly does scream fuel!!
But none of the *scanner* reports hinted at "low fuel pressure" kind'a things.

Your "undisclosed" anchoring of the vibrating lines might've cracked open a weak (or fatigued) spot on the fuel lines.
The 2004 does have an in-tank pump (2003 and earlier only have a suction pump on the engine, so an air leak in the tank-to-filter fuel line really does cause havoc)., so a leak *should* causes drips or sprays.

The oil on the resonator (the oil, as others have said, is "normal"... the PCV system delivers oil vapors into the airstream just prior to the turbo... the rubber hose occupying the lower right quarter of your first "connector" photo is that oil-dribble tube) tells me that your resonator is leaking.
It may not have contributed to your "died" at all, but we can't tell.
Such incidents don't always set a code that a ScanGauge (etc) will report.
The code only gets set if the leak is the cause of the Check Engine light.
If the leak "holds together" during the next couple of engine startings, it will self-extinguish (but the captured code should remain).

As for your list of scanners, there is one more: the "Chinese Clone" of the Star system. There's a within-2013 thread by someone trying to get a "group order" together to lower the individual cost. He's got one that he's happy with, so he was doing it for the good of the group.

The program people many tend to use on their Androids for speaking to an ELM327 is "Torque", available in both free and pay-for flavors.

ELM Electronics doesn't make OBD plug-ins. They just create the programmed chips that are the heart of them:
http://elmelectronics.com/obdic.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELM327

The ELM327 chips can be used to build "generic, open-source" OBD adapters.
You can also buy pre-built adapters from a number of companies, such as http://www.scantool.net/
(man... their prices have escalated... Years ago their ElmScan 5 was around $50 ( http://www.scantool.net/scan-tools/discontinued/ ))
Depending upon the flavor, the "adapter" serves as an interface between the OBD connector and whatever your preferred connection to your PC/laptop/phone is: USB, serial or BlueTooth.
OBD only "needs" 4 wires: power, ground, and two signal lines. (there are 5 flavors of OBD, each uses different pin groupings)
The T1N is ISO 9141-2 compliant, and uses pins 4 (frame ground), 5 (signal ground), 7 (K-line), 15 (L-line), and 16 (power).
MB and the Sprinter use the *other* 12 pins in the T1N's OBD socket for more dedicated "K-lines"... pairs of signal lines going to specific sub-modules (and they also use the "OBD" K-lines, too, but send different messages down them when in "Sprinter diagnostic" mode instead of emission-compliant OBD mode). It's the proper access to those other K-lines that makes a Sprinter-specific scanner so powerful.

--dick

autostaretx
08-11-2013, 04:14 PM
Next topic: Limp Home Mode is a loosely-used term.
The Sprinter's electronics have at least three distinct flavors (and undoubtedly many more "seems like it")
If it's a transmission issue: if you're driving along, nothing seems to happen (i.e. no sudden downshift from 5th to 2nd)...
... UNTIL you run down in the gear range (such as stopping for a light). Then it gets your attention.
LHM appears as "suddenly you're locked in 2nd gear". You can access P,N,R and 2nd.

If it's "only" an engine issue (not tranny), the "stuck-in-2nd" doesn't happen.
But: you may be restricted to a limited RPM range.
I forget the exact causes/values, but i do remember that one form limits you to 3000 rpm (max), and another uses 2500 rpm.
Some of Vic's training documents discuss this, and each RPM limit serves as a specific diagnostic for a specific group of faults.

A blown resonator (or split air hose) has a different effect: you're suddenly a "normally aspirated" diesel.
A better term might be "no balls". You can floor it, it'll spin quickly, but you will NOT have much power.
If the ECU notices that it's getting less pressure than it expects, it will *stop trying to use the turbo* (until you turn off the engine).

A bad Intake Air Temp sensor can also produce a "no balls" effect... it'll work great on level and mild hills, but give it a 6% grade and you have zilch power.
(ScanGauges/DashDAQ/UltraGauges can report the IAT reading... when my IATs failed (i'm on my 3rd) they'd read much higher temps than was believable.
(145 F on a winter day in Seattle? No way.)

good luck
--dick

autostaretx
08-11-2013, 04:26 PM
I think all this talk bout what replacement Resonator to buy is an unfortunate sideline for the OP. He simply needs to ID the issue while n the road, be provided with a temp fix so he can get on the road home!
Agreed.

Did sprinterpirate recently fill with fuel? Did it have a high percentage of bioDiesel?
Did the bioDiesel "clean" his fuel tank and suddenly fill his fuel filter with years of accumulated sludge?

I can agree with skydiver007's fuel-issues-cause-pedal-reports analysis, although i've never seen those effects.
I've never seen the pedal position (and other scan reports) on my own Sprinter when i've floored it for other reasons (such as blown resonator, or the IAT deaths).
But i've never (knock wood) had fuel problems on mine.
I *did* see pedal position reports on another member's Sprinter that i recently DAD'ed.
When we cleared the codes, they didn't return.

sprinterpirate: did you CLEAR the codes after scanning?
(that's usually not a recommended procedure until you've had a chance to get a full DRB-III/DAD/CarSoft/StarSystem readout, to catch the codes the OBD doesn't see).
But if your feet are to the fire, clearing codes to see *what comes back* is definitely one way to go.

good luck
--dick
p.s. when my Q4 resonator blew, i stopped at the next "big town" (Kalispell Montana) and bought JBWeld, bailing wire and duct tape. But i still haven't used them (adjustment to driving technique got me through the 3300 mile trip).

sailquik
08-11-2013, 04:28 PM
My copies of Eric Ord's Sprinter DTC books are 330 miles away.
Do any of you have the T1N version of Eric Ord's book
"The Complete Sprinter Fault Code Guide Volume 1: North American Edition Coverage: 2000-2006"?

Sure wish we had a way (without infringing on Eric's excellent work) to get his books in an online
data or digital media format so we could help in these situations.
If you have the T1N book, can you look up the codes that Sprinterpirate got with his ELM unit?
Generically speaking, the P2146 refers to a #2 injector fault.
Is this a valid Sprinter code?
I had an injector glitch in my 2006 T1N 3500, but it simply shut the engine off, I coasted to the side of the road, and when I restarted it everything worked as it should. The dealer ended up changing that injector under warranty.
This seems more serious as it's nearly full LHM, and does not seem to want to reset itself.
Sprinterpirate:
Do you have the radio code for this vehicle?
If so, disconnect the negative battery terminal (LH front of the engine bay, under the hood) for at least 10 min.
Then reconnect the battery and try running your Sprinter. Sometimes this causes a complete reboot of the Sprinter's
computers and it will clear a problem.
How many times have you tried to start it up? It takes at least 3 complete start/stop cycles (sometimes 5 or more) to get the computers to fully reboot and shut off the CEL.
If you want to try and load up the engine, put it in gear, lock the emergency brake, and put your foot on the service brake pedal to hold your Sprinter in position.
You can load up the engine against torque convertor slippage for short periods of time. Not suggesting 4,000 RPM...ever, and for sure not without some load on the engine. Try slowly increasing the throttle and see if it "Pops" at a certain RPM all the time.
Might see if whatever Scan Tool you can get your hands on will show you the MAP reading. If < 20 PSIA...it's leaking or the actuator is not being signaled by the ECM (LHM here).
If you get > 20 PSIA, and the actuator bell crank turns the vane ring, then your turbo and actuator are working, but you have a leak at some pressure.
Roger

sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 04:51 PM
Also, looking at the codes you pulled, the only one I see that is important is the first. Looks like a fuel problem.Your "undisclosed" anchoring of the vibrating lines might've cracked open a weak (or fatigued) spot on the fuel lines.
The 2004 does have an in-tank pump (2003 and earlier only have a suction pump on the engine, so an air leak in the tank-to-filter fuel line really does cause havoc)., so a leak *should* causes drips or sprays. --dickYeah, that's why I mentioned it, because I suddenly felt like the resonator solution was *too convenient*. I'm glad to hear that the 04 has an in-tank pump--I have looked along the lines and at the tank and I see no evidence of a leak. Unfortunately I can't inspect where the lines enter the tank because of limited access...

Sprinterpirate,
OK, you have locked on to the situation with the Scan Tools to do the full MB level diagnostics. Not getting on your case here, just trying to explain that yes (like ALL electro mechanical devices) Sprinters do have some limits, and unfortunately the design team chose NOT to give you any gauges that would help you to see when you are pushing those limits.
The ScanGauge II and similar devices fill in that information void and give you all the missing info to be able to tell when you are "using" your Sprinter vs when you are overloading and "abusing" your Sprinter.
RogerI found online some reference Sprinter van fault code books available on Amazon .Thanks sailquick! I'm glad I'm at least in the ballpark with my understanding. Driveon, thank you for the link to the code ref. guide. Looks like $45 well spent.

No... i was referring to my leaky resonator (until i could replace it). Mr. Leaky worked fine below 60 mph.
Prior to really splitting, i happily drove for years at 75 mph (when the speed limit said to...)
Now that i've replaced my broken Q4 with the Dorman, i'm only limited by the 82mph governor.
The Q5 was introduced in late 2005... i thought my 2005 Sprinter had one. Extraction revealed that it really had a Q4.

A second, previously unspoken, reason for me getting the Dorman was the *noise*.
The aluminum replacement would've added more turbo whine, which would have caused problems for my wife.
It's not the volume of additional sound (so much), but the high-pitched turbo whine would really nail her.
I vaguely recall that someone's post years ago had photos of a TR cut open (after failure).
There was quite a bit of "muffler-stuff" (slotted tubes, woven material) in there.
The aluminum replacement is "just a pipe".
Conversely, 2002 (Type2Teach) and 2003 (surlyoldbill) don't have resonators in the first place, so they're not deafening.

--dickYEEEEESS! That's what I was hoping you would say. As Sailquick mentioned, I will need to find a method of monitoring the beating I'm putting on the engine, but its good to hear I can still sail along swiftly. As for the resonator--I think I will go with the Dorman afterall based on the feedback I'm hearing. The whine on the stock resonator already annoys me.

Did sprinterpirate recently fill with fuel? Did it have a high percentage of bioDiesel?
Did the bioDiesel "clean" his fuel tank and suddenly fill his fuel filter with years of accumulated sludge?

sprinterpirate: did you CLEAR the codes after scanning?
(that's usually not a recommended procedure until you've had a chance to get a full DRB-III/DAD/CarSoft/StarSystem readout, to catch the codes the OBD doesn't see).
But if your feet are to the fire, clearing codes to see *what comes back* is definitely one way to go.I honestly haven't been checking the exact quality of diesel I filled up with. I will start being more vigilant on the blends. The sludge theory is even more possible for another reason though: since I saw low mpg on the 4 hour drive from San Antonio to Abilene, I added Diesel Kleen ( http://www.powerservice.com/dk/ ) to the fuel. But I would still not expect this to be a problem since it got a brand new filter just 1000 miles ago.

I'm not clearing any codes unless I end up needing to in order to make it home. Hopefully it won't come to that.
Next topic: Limp Home Mode is a loosely-used term.
The Sprinter's electronics have at least three distinct flavors (and undoubtedly many more "seems like it")
If it's a transmission issue: if you're driving along, nothing seems to happen (i.e. no sudden downshift from 5th to 2nd)...
... UNTIL you run down in the gear range (such as stopping for a light). Then it gets your attention.
LHM appears as "suddenly you're locked in 2nd gear". You can access P,N,R and 2nd.

If it's "only" an engine issue (not tranny), the "stuck-in-2nd" doesn't happen.
But: you may be restricted to a limited RPM range.
I forget the exact causes/values, but i do remember that one form limits you to 3000 rpm (max), and another uses 2500 rpm.
Some of Vic's training documents discuss this, and each RPM limit serves as a specific diagnostic for a specific group of faults.

A blown resonator (or split air hose) has a different effect: you're suddenly a "normally aspirated" diesel.
A better term might be "no balls". You can floor it, it'll spin quickly, but you will NOT have much power.
If the ECU notices that it's getting less pressure than it expects, it will *stop trying to use the turbo* (until you turn off the engine).

A bad Intake Air Temp sensor can also produce a "no balls" effect... it'll work great on level and mild hills, but give it a 6% grade and you have zilch power.
(ScanGauges/DashDAQ/UltraGauges can report the IAT reading... when my IATs failed (i'm on my 3rd) they'd read much higher temps than was believable.
(145 F on a winter day in Seattle? No way.)

good luck
--dick
OK, it definitely wasn't the first flavor, and there's nothing related to tranny in the fault codes, so I'm ruling that out. It sounds more like the "its only the engine" limp mode flavor--except rather than limiting rpm, it simply dies. But as of this morning, not anymore! I got it up to 60 and did not have any problems. We will see. I found a few more connectors and made sure they were attached right & added dialectric grease.

I used the jb plasticweld and some silicone tape on top to fix the resonator. The plasticweld is meant to cure for three hours--it has been two hours in the Texas sun, so I'm about to pack up and leave. If its a fuel supply issue I'll know soon.

autostaretx
08-11-2013, 04:52 PM
Generically speaking, the P2146 refers to a #2 injector fault.
Is this a valid Sprinter code?
My 2004 Service Manual does not cite 2146. BUT: 2141 through 2145 are "Cylinder #(1 thru 5) Injector Open Circuit"

Sprinterpirate:
Do you have the radio code for this vehicle?
If so, disconnect the negative battery terminal (LH front of the engine bay, under the hood) for at least 10 min.
Even if you don't have the code, just post your VIN (or the last 8 digits thereof) and we'll post the corresponding radio code.

--dick

Aqua Puttana
08-11-2013, 04:53 PM
P2141 thru P2145 = #1 - #5 injector Open Circuit for CDI3

You would expect the engine to run very rough with an open injector circuit.

P2146 is not listed.

This brings us back to what Skydiver007, others, have said before. You can't always trust the generic codes.

A generic scan tool polls the ECM (aka ECU). The ECM returns a list of codes. If the scan tool doesn't recognize a code it may spit out something that is close, but that may not be at all correct for the Sprinter.

We are dealing with operator symptom interpretation/descriptions, generic scan codes, limited information, etc.

We all know that air leaks in the charge air system can/will set LHM. If the TR is showing oil and a crack on the seam I'd think that it is worth repairing to see what results.

Opinion and information. Not intended as a diagnosis. vic

sprinterpirate
08-11-2013, 04:58 PM
Sprinterpirate:
Do you have the radio code for this vehicle?
If so, disconnect the negative battery terminal (LH front of the engine bay, under the hood) for at least 10 min.

You can load up the engine against torque convertor slippage for short periods of time. Not suggesting 4,000 RPM...ever, and for sure not
without some load on the engine. Try slowly increasing the throttle and see if it "Pop" at a certain RPM all the time.
Might see if whatever Scan Tool you can get your hands on will show you the MAP reading. If < 20 PSIA...it's leaking or the actuator is not being signaled by the ECM (LHM here).
If you get > 20 PSIA, and the actuator bell crank turns the vane ring, then your turbo and actuator are working, but you have a leak at
some pressure.
Roger
Thanks, I will try the battery trick if it acts up again. Scratch that, I'll do it now anyway. But as of this morning the check engine light is gone, and I already got it up to 60mph once. Now that I have the freshly cured jbweld on there I don't want to push it and risk blowing the resonator repair...

surlyoldbill
08-11-2013, 05:09 PM
Pirate, motor on. Drive like it may break at any moment. You should get home OK.
Don't be tempted to "test" it by flooring it up a steep grade, you're in the middle of nowhere.

I've driven El Paso to the Bay Area in a single day a couple times, it's tedious. Bypass Phoenix to the South because traffic there sucks. Try to keep your tank above 1/2. I usually get 400 miles before it hits the 1/2 mark (gauge isn't correct, I only get 600-700 miles on a full tank, my 1/2 empty marl is more like a little less than 1/4 tank).

autostaretx
08-11-2013, 05:10 PM
Continuing on the "what does the Sprinter manual say about Pxxxx?" vein:
P1482 is a catch-all:
GLOW PLUG MODULE - COMMUNICATION ERROR,
GLOW PLUG MODULE - EXCESS CURRENT,
GLOW PLUG MODULE - INCORRECT TIMER,
GLOW PLUG MODULE - INTERNAL FAULT

And (lo and behold) all of the P2133 (etc) are *not fuel related*... They're Glow Plug!
P1482-GLOW PLUG MODULE - EXCESS CURRENT. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .70
P2133-GLOW PLUG FAILURE-CYLINDER #1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .70
P2134-GLOW PLUG FAILURE-CYLINDER #2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .70
P2135-GLOW PLUG FAILURE-CYLINDER #3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .70
P2136-GLOW PLUG FAILURE-CYLINDER #4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .70
P2137-GLOW PLUG FAILURE-CYLINDER #5. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .70

..and note how one of the P1482s shares the diagnostic procedure page with the 213xx codes.

Then there's 2123:
P2123-INJECTOR CIRCUIT FAULT. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .47
P2123-INJECTOR CIRCUIT LOW SIDE SHORTED TO GROUND. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .47
P2123-INJECTOR CIRCUIT SHORTED TO GROUND OR VOLTAGE . . . . . . . . . . . . .47

My 2004 service manual does not list anything under P0380, P0671, P0672, P0674 or P2146

(my apologies for not looking the codes up yesterday)

--dick
p.s. added to bring all of his reported scan numbers into one text-copyable spot:
P2146 (/!\)
P0674 (/!\)
P0672 (/!\)
P0671 (/!\)
P0380 (/!\)
P1482
P2133
P2134
P2136
P2123

.. the (/!\) flags mean "current", and the rest are "old, stored".
You should be able to dig into each code (even on a "generic" scanner) to get the "frozen data packet"
That includes a kilometer-when-it-happened value, along with other collaborating data.

p.p.s. somewhere someone asked if the DRB-III was an "official Dodge tool"... Yes, it is/was.

surlyoldbill
08-11-2013, 05:30 PM
Food for thought, there are "junk codes" that are stored or generated on the 2003 (Dr A write-up). These DTCs show up, but show up all the time regardless of clearing or condition, using the DAD.

SO

There may be junk codes that pop up on other years, or when using equipment other than the DRB-III.

sailquik
08-11-2013, 05:40 PM
Sprinterpirate,
I too have driven across from El Paso to So. California.
There are some grades on that route.
To avoid loading up your engine % of engine LOD and putting the turbocharger boost level up near the max. where it could rupture your JB Weld patch, downshift to 4th gear (even 3rd gear if you have to) when you see the RPMs start to drop (if you are in Cruise Control) or holding a steady throttle.
When the engine note gets noticeable (sounds like it's beginning to work hard/strain a bit), and the RPMs, begin to drop, you can be sure that you are Maxed out.....99% engine % LOD
and turbo output (MAP) @ > 33 PSIA.
You can run all day long at significantly less % LOD and MAP in the 2700-3200 RPMs range.
This is where your OM-647 (T1N) 5 cylinder inline engine makes it's best pulling power.
If you try to chug uphill @ 2400 RPMs or less, your % LOD and MAP levels will max. out very quickly.
A simple tap on the gearshift lever to the left and the indicator light will show you are in 4th gear and
the tachometer will show you that the RPMs have increased by ~500 RPM.
Less %LOD and less turbo boost is going to keep you moving at higher RPMS, but that's the only way to
get your engine up into it's most efficient power range.
Less RPMS will increase your % LOD and boost level (MAP) with an increased risk that whatever the fault is
it will return and put you on the side of the road.
3200 RPMs, when you engine is working hard, is not a problem. I pull a tall/wide/near Sprinter weight capacity, and when pushing into head winds I find I'm sometimes limited to 60-62 MPH with everything maxed out in 5th gear (Overdrive 0.83:1 ratio) @ ~2400 RPM.
A manual downshift to 4th gear (1:1 ratio) and the speed stays about the same (62 mph GPS/Scan Gauge II) but the % LOD and MAP drop substantially and the RPMS increase to ~2900.
When in this "cruise all day in 4th gear mode, I usually run the RPM very near 3000 RPM and that puts my speed right @ 65 MPH, with plenty of power to attack the uphill grades, even pushing into the headwinds.
Good luck, take it slow up the hills/into headwinds and Drive ON! You might actually make it to work on time tomorrow.
Roger

autostaretx
08-11-2013, 06:40 PM
Many auto parts stores *carry* the ScanGauge ($160) ... if you see one on the shelf, why not buy it?
Then you'd have additional instrumentation (MAP, LOD) for your specific issues
(and you'd be able to read and clear codes...)

--dick
p.s. if they carry the UltraGauge (less than $100), the same advice applies... i happen to prefer the scangauge for its "front face" buttons.

autostaretx
08-11-2013, 07:03 PM
On the "why did it die?" topic, here's a line from another thread: http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27674 (post 12)
" Finally, by coincidence, the battery cable was bumped while testing and the van died instantly. Tracked it down to the crank position sensor cable being brittle and zip tied to battery cable and shorting out when driving or getting to hot. At least that's the theory. "

There's many a slip twixt the Sprinter and its electricals...
--dick

glasseye
08-11-2013, 07:17 PM
Holy crap. You guys are good. :bow::rad:

Aqua Puttana
08-11-2013, 07:51 PM
Let's hope that no replies here is a good thing as he is now out of WIFI access happily sailing down the highway for home port to rum, booty, and wild women. Arrrr, the good life. :drink:

53984


53985


:cheers: vic

icarus
08-11-2013, 08:09 PM
My guess is he is nearing Tucson!

Good wishes!

Icarus

icarus
08-12-2013, 12:32 AM
I'm now guessing past Phoenix, on the way to Indio?

Icarus

sprinterpirate
08-12-2013, 01:20 AM
Greetings from Tucson. Finally got here after trying 6 auto parts stores & finding out that every Autozone has a Scanguage2 in stock. Also pulled over for 20 minutes to wait out a monsoon!

Work isnt happening tomorrow, even if I get there I will be too tired to perform... gonna eat dinner with my friend, then drive a few more hours & camp out in the desert, maybe j tree, though it will be sad to be out there with no time to play!

I have the scan guage set up to show LOD, MAP & RPM. Not sure what 4th function is most relevant... will keep th rpm in the 27k - 32k range, MAP below 33psi, and LOD? Not sure what "red line" for LOD would be...

Thanks everyone, I will report back once I make it home...http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/12/pe9e3a6y.jpg

icarus
08-12-2013, 02:12 AM
Go man, go!

You will be fine! Clearly it is a resonator issue, and if you are gentle it will be fine!

Icarus

PS. There is no "redline" for LOD. It just represents the % of the capacity given the
RPM. Keep it under 90 if you can.

T

autostaretx
08-12-2013, 02:22 AM
maybe j tree, though it will be sad to be out there with no time to play!
Step outside early in the morning (4am? 3am?) and look up... the Perseid meteor shower is scheduled to be pretty impressive this year
Perhaps 100 meteors per hour.

I use MPG as my 4th, since "being gentle" tends to make it give nice bigger numbers....
I also have MPH as my 3rd, since it's *accurate* (unlike my speedo)

--dick

icarus
08-12-2013, 02:53 AM
I actully use coolant temp for the 4 th gauge. I have an ultra gauge that displays 6 gauges at a time.

Icarus

Aqua Puttana
08-12-2013, 11:33 AM
Food for thought, there are "junk codes" that are stored or generated on the 2003 (Dr A write-up). These DTCs show up, but show up all the time regardless of clearing or condition, using the DAD.

SO

There may be junk codes that pop up on other years, or when using equipment other than the DRB-III.
Doktor A also said this.


The Vol. 1 ('01-'06) and Vol 2 ('07-'10) Sprinter complete fault code books are available from me directly. If a particular code is not found in the book, it can be ignored. Doktor A

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=103304#post103304

vic

sprinterpirate
08-12-2013, 11:55 AM
The beast died again. Now it even dies after just idling for a while.

Scanguage Codes:
P2146
P0674
P0672
P0671
P0380

Same readings as before.

How it happened: I took a 3.3 hour nap at a highway rest stop. I did see some meteorites! I started the van. It was substantially cooler (4am) than before. Warmed it up for 1min then took off as gently as before. Engine died and check engine light came on after 1 or two minutes on the freeway. Luckily there was a gas station at an exit 1/2 mile down the road.

Since then I have started it & idled about 10 times. Twice it has died while idling.

Aqua Puttana
08-12-2013, 12:38 PM
Unfortunately the generic codes may be off as to what the ECM is trying to tell you.

The beast died again. Now it even dies after just idling for a while.

Scanguage Codes:
P2146
P0674
P0672
P0671
P0380

Same readings as before.

How it happened: I took a 3.3 hour nap at a highway rest stop. I did see some meteorites! I started the van. It was substantially cooler (4am) than before. Warmed it up for 1min then took off as gently as before. Engine died and check engine light came on after 1 or two minutes on the freeway. Luckily there was a gas station at an exit 1/2 mile down the road.

Since then I have started it & idled about 10 times. Twice it has died while idling.

Here's the result of a DAD scan by someone who also had similar generic codes. The codes found by the DAD were not the same so the Ord book is of dubious value to your reported DTC's.

I was finally Abel to run the DAD diagnostic unit on my van and it came up with 3 codes. 2 where easy to see, P2136 = #4 glow plug and P1482 glow plug controller this I understand and the next time I'm in Ohio I will take a drive and see the the DR. in Pittsburgh
the third code = P2404 EVAP Emission Sys Leak Detection Pump Sensore Circuit Range/Perf_ I do not understand. Is this one of the don't worry about it or is it really something I must have fixed. Thanks

Additional info specific to the quote above.



For future reference, the Ord book indicates that P2404 = CAN signal: Brake light switch signal not plausible. It is listed in the ATC section.

I looked, but didn't find P2404 listed as anything related to EVAP.

P2136 does relate to glow plugs as does P1482.

vic


I need help fast with codes P0674 and P0380
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15356

The glowplug related faults are likely not your problem unless the harness is grounding out and affecting the ECM somehow. The Glow Plug module and associated harness is located basically under the battery.

It could be so many things...

At this point with no Sprinter specific DTC scan as a shot in the dark I would suggest carefully examining your wire harnesses. There is some history of wire harness abrasion under the steering coulumn on a bracket, in a couple places around the battery, and in the area where the harness exits the plastic injector cover.

You also might double check the MAF connector and general area. I needed to add a cable tie to keep my MAF connector stable. Double check all the connectors that you can find. The CKS Crankshaft Position Sensor can cause immediate shutdown. That is low under the engine. The CMP Camshaft Position Sensor is only needed for starting, but if the harness were grounding that could possibily cause a shutdown.

53994

53995

53996

53998

53999

Sorry I can't offer more.

Maybe it is time to call Doktor A?

Good luck. vic

sprinterpirate
08-12-2013, 12:54 PM
Ok, I'm back on the road.... yhanks for the insanely quick reply!

The jb plasticweld held perfectly but I noticed a small amount of oil weeping from the hose end itself.

Applied even more plasticweld for overkill purposes. Removed hose, cleaned it so well I can eat off it, and clamped it TIGHT!

Two lessons:

1. Clean the inside of the hose really well with simple green before putting back on.

2. This being a mercedes, do not forget hose clamp torque spec is a ***metric*** sh@$!#t ton.:eek:

sprinterpirate
08-12-2013, 12:56 PM
Overkill plastic bondhttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/12/a7y9etys.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/12/myqememu.jpg

Aqua Puttana
08-12-2013, 01:18 PM
CSI could identify that you did the work by the permanently embedded fingerprints. :laughing:

vic

sprinterpirate
08-12-2013, 01:44 PM
Playing on my becker sound 30:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdizL4on-Rc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/12/aduqyhyt.jpg

MillionMileSprinter
08-12-2013, 02:39 PM
Overkill. Yes. I think that might be a good pictoral representation of the word "overkill". But hey, you're getting home and you have a new resonator coming to you in the mail. Way to go!

autostaretx
08-12-2013, 02:52 PM
...there was that recent thread describing the need to replace the hose clamp *exactly* as it was before, due to the lack of consistent "roundness" of that design of screw-clamp.
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27873

54002

(photo reduced to save posting space... original (in that thread) was actual size)

... or buy better clamps...

--dick (seattle. cloudy. no meteors...)

surlyoldbill
08-12-2013, 04:25 PM
Wow, so sensitive to boost pressure!
At least now Pirate knows where to look if this ever happens again.
I was very concerned when I had my first operational problem, but learned a lot in the process and am now confident in my ability to identify THAT problem and fix it myself (Injector replacement).

So, this thread concerning boost and the resonator; does anyone agree with me that perhaps the OM612 engine configuration might be more reliable than the OM647? The low pressure fuel pump and the EGR on the OM612 are probably worse designs, but overall it seems to be more user friendly.

sprinterpirate
08-13-2013, 03:35 AM
Back in the bay, and the van is running like a dream. I will be busy with work for the next few days, but as soon as I get a chance I'll get those codes checked and provide an update about anything I find.

Thank you Thank you thank you...

This forum saved me.

Aqua Puttana
08-13-2013, 03:48 AM
...
So, this thread concerning boost and the resonator; does anyone agree with me that perhaps the OM612 engine configuration might be more reliable than the OM647? The low pressure fuel pump and the EGR on the OM612 are probably worse designs, but overall it seems to be more user friendly.
Maybe...

Six of one, 1/2 dozen of the other? :idunno:

Just one example. The OM647 injector control may be a bit more forgiving. As soon as one injector doesn't get signal on the OM612 the engine can shut down. The OM647 control allows running if the injector signal gets funky. The OM647 can test injector firing by inhibiting the individual signal. That test isn't available for the OM612.

Even given the problems highlighted here on Sprinter-source the Sprinters seem pretty reliable overall. :2cents:

vic

P.S. - Time will tell if the problems in this thread will trace only to a charge air system or TR leak.

icarus
08-13-2013, 04:58 AM
ARRRRRRRRR! Welcome home matee! Glad to see you made it! Keep in touch,

Icarus

surlyoldbill
08-13-2013, 05:12 AM
Back in the bay, and the van is running like a dream. I will be busy with work for the next few days, but as soon as I get a chance I'll get those codes checked and provide an update about anything I find.

Thank you Thank you thank you...

This forum saved me.

People's Precision Automotive in Berkeley next to REI works on Sprinters. Not a recommendation, I've never had work done there, but I've talked with the owner and he seems ok.

driveon
08-13-2013, 03:56 PM
I found another thread about a mobile sprinter mechanic who is located in the Northern California Bay Area.

I have no experience with his services or performance just passing on the info.


http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=254621&

surlyoldbill
08-13-2013, 04:39 PM
I found another thread about a mobile sprinter mechanic who is located in the Northern California Bay Area.

I have no experience with his services or performance just passing on the info.


http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=254621&

Yes, MobileCC helped me with my first bad injector, too. He has a DRB-III. I don't know if he still works in the area or not.

autostaretx
08-13-2013, 05:09 PM
Remember that an intermittent problem is *murder* (i.e. expensive time-wise and labor-rate) to find if it's not manifesting itself.

Sprinterpirate could try wiggling *one* connector, then drive around to see if it "broke"...
then stop, wiggle his *second* connector, then drive around to see if it "broke"...
..and if neither one triggered the problem, then what?

It certainly could've all been traced to an air leak, and replacing the resonator (which may have been innocent, if it was really the clamped hose that was leaking) might be called for.

...as we all continue driving along, waiting for the next hiccup...
--dick (what's that whine? what's that "tic tic tic"? what's that hiss?)(damn... gotta get different ringtones...)

sprinterpirate
08-20-2013, 01:35 AM
Hi-ho landlubbers, here be the update, arrrrr....

I finally got th' turbo resonator replaced, changed th' ATF in me transmission ('n torque converter), 'n tightened below th' lockrin' on me in-fuel-tank fuel pump (it was leakin' all over me folks' nice driveway).

Th' van be runnin' great, hearty thanks to all ye matey's help. I rang up ol' Ben Crilly, thanks fer th' advice. We be goin' to meet up afore I leave town to make sure th' fault codes aren't ominous as the deep sea. Arr, then I'll be headin' up to Oregon to move a ton 'o stuff! I gunna message an update if I learn anythin'.

Thanks, may the Cracken be kind to ye, Sprinterpirate


http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/347/d/3/pirate_woman_by_arantzasestayo-d4iz4lt.jpg

sprinterpirate
08-21-2013, 06:56 PM
I met up with Ben Crilly in Novato on my way out of town, and he helped me with his DRB3. He was very helpful and accomodating on short notice! Four of the codes were indeed about the glow plugs--he recommended a full set be installed soon but that a short wait while I finish my move wont destroy the engine.

The fifth code is of concern, it relates to a #1 injector ground fault, or bad connection.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/u4egytyn.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/u6azuvu8.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/e3ygasap.jpg

He suggested that before I open that can of worms I post the code here to see if anyone recognizes the code relating to a specific location on the harness.

We inspected the injector harness and noticed that a rubber bumper keeping it from rubbing had slipped down so I zip-tied it back in place. I also noticed a few wires near the air filter that arent tied down so I taped them together to reduce vibration.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/ma3ujure.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/e2y6ujyh.jpg

He also mentioned that it could be due to an ecm relay with an intermittent fault, so he suggested I do the drive today with the ecm relay and blinker relay switched. They are both 20A and the switch schematic looks the same (see image). Seems like a relay should be cheap insurance so I will source one on my drive.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/qehataqa.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/eqyjyzun.jpg

Aqua Puttana
08-21-2013, 07:19 PM
P2123

3 possibilities without specific suffix numbers show in Freeman Crosby's Dodge list.

http://www.fcrosby.com/sprinter/dtc.html

I didn't even find the code in the Ord book, but sometimes it takes some looking to make certain that it isn't in another section.

Edit: Same as you have P2123 001 is short circuit to ground (-) or voltage (+)

002 specifies to ground (-), 008 is General error.

vic

autostaretx
08-21-2013, 08:06 PM
This is a 2004?

Attached you will find the "Powertrain" section of the 2004 Service Manual CD diagnostic set.
P2123 codes are covered starting on page 47 (by the page number, 57 by Acrobat's numbering)
(it's only a 1.3 megabyte file)

54165

good luck
--dick