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View Full Version : PLEASE HELP.. about to give up


FullFUEL
05-20-2013, 08:30 PM
hi guys i just want to start out by saying thanks for your help anyways

I have a friend who has an 06 dodge 2500 version sprinter when it was purchased it smoked and and would be intermitent on power pretty much go into LHM and then would come back anyways he had the turbo and actuator replaced along with all the intercooler tubes as well as turbo resonator. we have cleaned the maf and checked air filter as well as the inlet and everything for restrictions! power was definitely gained after all of this however it still kicks back into LHM and such!

i use my snap solus ultra on this which will allow me to check the turbo actuator as well as the egr valve! also allow me to watch pid's it sits at 14.7 psi at idle and when i watch it while drive or putting a load on it. it will increase to 26.4 to 26.7 3/4 of the way through the rpm range and all of a sudden will start reading negative as if its in a vacum.. also have done cylinder cut out tests and all sound the same as well as respond the same to being shut off! i know this is not a sprinter specific scanner but its also not a generic pos either.

im getting the generic 2359 code for low boost and thats it and it only happens obviously in when the LHM is activated now heres the weird thing ive checked and cleaned and viewed operation of the egr and looks to operate smooth as well as the functions it should but if i turn the engine off and leave the key on theres a real high pitch wine sound from the egr valve as well as if you put your hand on it it is vibrating!

for sh*ts and giggles i unplugged it and took it for a test drive and had plenty of power never set a LHM pluged it back in and with a 1/2 a mile went back to a LHM fault setting

i know theres been tons of issues some what related to this im just trying to figure this out once and for all! any help would be amazing i have a call into DOKTOR A and just waiting for a call back just wondering if anyone else has had any of these issues or anything! :yell::thinking:

Aqua Puttana
05-20-2013, 08:39 PM
... but if i turn the engine off and leave the key on theres a real high pitch wine sound from the egr valve as well as if you put your hand on it it is vibrating!
I've noticed that both my original and replacement EGR have a squeal at times. The EGR is controlled by a PWM conditioned signal. I don't think it is that unusual.

for sh*ts and giggles i unplugged it and took it for a test drive and had plenty of power never set a LHM plugged it back in and with a 1/2 a mile went back to a LHM fault setting
When you pull the plug on the EGR the computer will revert to default settings which often cause the symptoms to go away. The defaults apply to more than just the EGR proper so it doesn't necessarily pinpoint the issues to the EGR itself.

i know theres been tons of issues some what related to this im just trying to figure this out once and for all! any help would be amazing i have a call into DOKTOR A and just waiting for a call back just wondering if anyone else has had any of these issues or anything! :yell::thinking:
Doktor A is your best bet. Good luck. vic

Steady Eddie
05-20-2013, 08:54 PM
I had that code of low boast psi. Change everything but the inter cooler. It was the inter cooler, had a small hole in it. Put 10 psi on the thing and you could hear the air come out.

FullFUEL
05-20-2013, 11:02 PM
ya been afraid of that..... eddie

lindenengineering
05-20-2013, 11:16 PM
Do you have a smoke machine?

Suggest smoking the system bacjkwards from inlet manifold to turbo.
No leaks Reverse the process and blow smoke into the inlet manifold.
If you have a gasket (manifold/head) blown same will happen.

Had this with a 2002 manifold that was cracked.
Found it with Indian smoke signals (courtesy of Snap On) :thumbup:

You can also do a stall test and watch the turbo blow pressure rise until it limps--Don't do it for too long the torque converter will get hot!

Cheers Dennis

FullFUEL
05-21-2013, 03:18 PM
ya dennis havent done the smoke machine test yet.... waiting for my snap on man to come buy :-/ ha ha! as far as the stall test done it and seems to work great then it will read -psi and then go into limp mode so idk

outputcentral
05-23-2013, 08:34 AM
Map sensor?

FullFUEL
05-24-2013, 03:01 PM
checked map sensor with a brand new one same thing! spoke to doktor A and the turbo was replaced with one bought off of ebay as well as an actuator seperatley and is possible suspect that there off on calibration because the only way to get the linkage onto the turbo is if it is running and then connect the linkage other wise the linakge is about 1/8 inch above where the vain lever is so hes suspecting that the calibration is way off and not allowing it to get full boost and still blow black smoke and giving it the low boost code...., any one else had one of these issues?

lindenengineering
05-24-2013, 03:37 PM
checked map sensor with a brand new one same thing! spoke to doktor A and the turbo was replaced with one bought off of ebay as well as an actuator seperatley and is possible suspect that there off on calibration because the only way to get the linkage onto the turbo is if it is running and then connect the linkage other wise the linakge is about 1/8 inch above where the vain lever is so hes suspecting that the calibration is way off and not allowing it to get full boost and still blow black smoke and giving it the low boost code...., any one else had one of these issues?

I have to ask!
What are you doing buying parts off of Fleabay for? OMG.
I wouldn't buy a moldy sandwich off of Ebay! Especially for something vital for your Sprinter .

I have just given someone some advise for doing the same thing with a turbo Subaru--It wrecked a perfectly good engine! Now it is Small Claims Court--All could have been avoided by a bit of caveat emptor!

The actuator and the linkage and indeed the guts of the turbo are vital for the boost pressure compliance and mapping of the control. If it is out of whack then it will flag a code and go into limp.

I think you might have bought something that is unusable in the short term.
Dennis

MillionMileSprinter
05-24-2013, 04:24 PM
checked map sensor with a brand new one same thing! spoke to doktor A and the turbo was replaced with one bought off of ebay as well as an actuator seperatley and is possible suspect that there off on calibration because the only way to get the linkage onto the turbo is if it is running and then connect the linkage other wise the linakge is about 1/8 inch above where the vain lever is so hes suspecting that the calibration is way off and not allowing it to get full boost and still blow black smoke and giving it the low boost code...., any one else had one of these issues?

I got my first van with 87K miles on it because the original owner replaced his bad fuel pump with a "good" one he got off ebay. 3 mechanics later, no one could get it started. He sold it to me and I've since put 40K miles on it!
Buy new parts, not used ebay parts.

FullFUEL
05-24-2013, 04:31 PM
i understand this and i refuse to buy used parts or chineese knock off parts off ebay! im just helping him out and he wanted to save money and not pay the 24-2600 for the factory one so thats what he got!

MillionMileSprinter
05-24-2013, 05:33 PM
Sorry. I shouldn't pour salt on an open wound. We've all made mistakes before, including myself.
Keep talking with Dr A. He's your best bet for getting back on the road.

skydiver007
05-25-2013, 12:55 AM
I had the exact same problems you have and it turned out to be cracks in the intercooler. Finally got so bad that one day she started making a noise that sounded like the main bearings were spun and scared the hell out of me.

Took the grill off and sure enough it was leaking. Cut out the bad part and used epoxy metal repair kit until a new one came from Europarts and she was good as new.

I'm not sure I agree with the actuator problem. If it is moving freely, it should work. The way the system works is the ECM calculates how much pressure the engine needs at any given time and electrically or by vacuum on older models moves the actuator to cause the turbo vanes to produce boost. When the ecm sees the proper boost, all is well and it continuously varies the actuator arm based on boost requirements. If it doesnt see the right boost, it will move the arm some more and more to see if it gets boost.
If you adjusted the arm hoping you would get more boost, it wont matter as the ECM controls boost not the actuator.

In my research, any difference more than 3psi either high or low (measured with a DRBIII) and the ECM will put the turbo into LHM. The ECM gets its pressure reading from the MAP sensor. It could also go bad.

If you are blowing black smoke, 90 percent change you have a plumbing leak or turbo is not producing boost.

After I bought a new turbo and put it on thinking it was bad (was not) I put the old one back on and problem remained.

If you think new used turbo is bad, put the old one back on and try it.

Check the intercooler for leaks. It is not that hard to get the whole thing out. If like mine was doing, you can look up under the front end and see oil dripping from under the radiator. Sure sign it is leaking.

surlyoldbill
05-25-2013, 01:24 AM
Caveat emptor.
KNOW what you are buying on Ebay.
New and used aftermarket engine parts are a bad bet; usually.
New OEM parts are OK, as are some new aftermarket parts from reputable manufacturer.
I've had great luck with aftermarket shocks, struts, brake rotors and pads, serpentine belt tensioner, glow plugs, oil fuel and air filters, etc. Bad luck with aftermarket MAF. Great prices on new OEM EGR ($275), alternator, engine wiring harness, injector ($250).

Used parts are a crapshoot. Unless you can confirm that they have few hours on them, or are a just a cosmetic part like a bumper, don't gamble.

What you do NOT get from ebay or amazon or other mass sellers is customer service regarding installation or use. The specialty sales places will help you through your installation or calibration via phone or email.

lindenengineering
05-25-2013, 01:46 AM
i understand this and i refuse to buy used parts or chineese knock off parts off ebay! im just helping him out and he wanted to save money and not pay the 24-2600 for the factory one so thats what he got!


I will let you into a little secret!
The turbo NEW not in an MB box is about 900 to 1200 clams.
Use this benchmark when trying to buy a replacement.
Equally don't be scared to ask a Euro based dealer for the same giving them the Vin # .

Most parts suppliers speak English, even down in Mexico so simply e mail them.

You might be surprised how cheap a part might be if you e mail or call the UK for example!
Don't be scared to pick up the phone and call 01144 then drop the first area code digit and then dial as you would in the USA.
I might use the Mudie Bond group.
www.linkedin.com/company/mudie-bond-group‎

Mark Kellaway parts manger is the contact and use about 1.5 dollars to buy a quid.
They will give you a price to the US often by Parcel Force.

Sometimes it worth the effort and not just for buying MG vanity insignia for your Sprinter !:laughing:
Dennis

FullFUEL
05-25-2013, 01:40 PM
thanks guys and as i stated before a couple times it was not my choice to but the crap shoot turbo and actuator it was his to save a couple bucks unfortunately he took them and sent them back to the place he got them from for core $ i have my own shop and know the difference between ya get what ya pay for! any who i appreciate all the help! ill be pulling off the intercooler to thoroughly check it for leaks maybe even build some pressure caps to text it that way :)

lindenengineering
05-25-2013, 02:36 PM
If you have a shop consider purchasing a smoke machine.

Of the many pieces of equipment I have purchased over the years for my business, the smoke machine has been one of my best.

It is great for leak detection and saving of time (lots of it) on diagnosis not just for leaking intake systems but for tracing small oil leaks in major units.

Of course if you fix gasoline engines in your shop its great for repairing/finding small secondary evaps and associated emissions vacuum problems controls on a range of cars that come in for E related repairs.

In our shop this week we fixed three Tin Sprinters with similar problems as you have experienced. All were turbo feed hose related.

One was a bit more difficult than the others; it took about 10 minutes after hook up of the machine to find a small leak at the seam on the turbo resonator. Poor guy/customer was expecting huge bill thinking it was the turbo at fault , but one hour of labor including road test and a resonator and he was rolling!

In the short term you don't have to strip out the whole charge cooler, why not do as we did back in the 70's with big trucks and their coolers!
On lathe make up two thick blank caps to plug either end of the the complete system at the turbo hoses. Put a pressure fitting into each one. Hose clamp the blank plugs in to either side of the system then to one fitting install a pressure gauge, the other side a tyre valve.

Inflate the system with air ( a tyre foot pump will work) to 15 psi and see if there is a pressure drop/leak!.--(Old Royal Navy technique! I learned that from a ex RN Bosun as an apprentice in the 60's ):thumbup:

Just a word of caution if any of the reader on this forum is going to use this technique. Don't go past 15 psi and stay clear of the caps.! If they bow out and your anatomy is in the way---it will hurt a lot
Happy wrenching (and note I didn't write wenching!):rolleyes:
Dennis

Aqua Puttana
05-25-2013, 02:45 PM
... ill be pulling off the intercooler to thoroughly check it for leaks maybe even build some pressure caps to text it that way :)
Not that you asked...

I found what I needed to pressure test my boost system at Home Depot. I'm certain any similar store would have the parts too. vic


http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=161278#post161278

lindenengineering
05-25-2013, 02:50 PM
Vic
Ah that old RN technique--again!:thumbup:

Thanks for re-posting the link you put up.
Pictures make a thousand words.
Enjoy your weekend
Dennis

Motodisiac
05-30-2013, 06:55 AM
Hi there,

I had similar issue and after nearly 6 months of troubleshooting it turned out to be bad alternator. I did everything you already did and one day by pure accident we checked the voltage with the engine running, it was 12 volt. Swapped the generator for new Bosch and the problem is gone. Good luck.

FullFUEL
06-10-2013, 03:40 PM
im just curious how did the alternator change the issues i understand what your saying and could fathom it but just trying to see how

Boater
06-10-2013, 06:33 PM
I have to ask!
What are you doing buying parts off of Fleabay for? OMG.
I wouldn't buy a moldy sandwich off of Ebay! Especially for something vital for your Sprinter .


Most of my sprinter parts have come from ebay, or at least via the ebay department of a MB dealership parts centre, because if they don't have the part I need listed on ebay I usually end up emailing and then paying by phone. :thumbup:

Just heard a story about a friend of a friend who has been having black death issues on a CDI T1N. At some point he replaced the injector seals with copper washers from Halfords (I think pepboys is similar kind of store in US), turned out to be brass washers with copper plating so didn't compress at all giving a poor seal and more blow by. I have told my friend to pass on the details of the MB guys I use, the proper seals probably cost no more than the wrong ones did (if bought in small quantities), although I've only bought them as part of the hold down kit for my non-CDI.
I won't even mention other aspects of the story, some of it is too horrible to contemplate!

All of which said, I was getting worried about the turbo on my car (still am) after looking at all the options online - used, remanfuctured etc. I decided it was too critical an item to mess around with. When I get round to it, the car will go to a diesel specialist for proper diagnosis. Well, when I say get around to it, when I think I might be able to afford a new turbo if it is on it's way out....
First I need to rebuild my cleaned intake when the new gaskets arrive, then I need to summon the courage to work on getting the plugs out and doing compression and leak down to make sure the engine is worth throwing money at. Damn it, got a van with good engine (since I rebuilt it) needing chassis work to get back on the road, and a car with acceptable chassis/body with a deteriorating engine, I just want one or the other working at any time, looks like it's going to be neither pretty soon, in fact it is now with the intake off the car!

Motodisiac
06-15-2013, 12:32 AM
I was puzzled by this as well. The bottom line is it worked. Not a single LHM since the change. Just measure the voltage while idling, if it's less than high 13's this is the culprit.

D.

im just curious how did the alternator change the issues i understand what your saying and could fathom it but just trying to see how