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WWilder
04-17-2013, 08:36 PM
2008 Diesel Sprinter - only 30K miles. Thought battery was bad - replaced it this morning. When you turn the key to start it just clicks - one time. Have also tried jumpers. Any ideas? Thank you Wayne

Aqua Puttana
04-17-2013, 08:40 PM
2008 Diesel Sprinter - only 30K miles. Thought battery was bad - replaced it this morning. When you turn the key to start it just clicks - one time. Have also tried jumpers. Any ideas? Thank you Wayne
Cables and grounds have some history of problems. Some info here may help you. Good luck. vic


http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=86851#post86851

WWilder
04-17-2013, 11:50 PM
Thanks - I checked the wire from the ignition to the solenoid while attempting to start. Voltage is only about 3 volts momentarily. Any other suggestions? Thanks

Aqua Puttana
04-18-2013, 12:11 AM
Turn on the headlights and have someone watch them as you try to crank the engine to see if they dim or go out.

Keep in mind that when you turn the key to start your Sprinter you are not putting power directly to the start relay or the solenoid. When you turn the key you are asking the computer to please start the engine as long as it feels everything is OK. Depending upon where you measured for voltage, the 3 volts may not be coming directly from the key switch.

Sorry I can't offer more. vic

WWilder
04-18-2013, 12:31 AM
I tested the headlights lights like you said. When initially trying to start - they dim for an instant when I hear the starter or solenoid click. If I try to start again without completely recycling the key they do not dim and I hear no click. Thanks for your ideas.

Aqua Puttana
04-18-2013, 12:41 AM
I tested the headlights lights like you said. When initially trying to start - they dim for an instant when I hear the starter or solenoid click. If I try to start again without completely recycling the key they do not dim and I hear no click. Thanks for your ideas.
There is a lockout feature built into the key turn for start. Once the key is turned from off to start it will not request start again until cycled to off. That is to prevent the operator from grinding the starter gear if the engine is already running.

If you did not turn the key to off then any subsequent start attempts would not be recognized. The lights dimming would indicate that something is causing the voltage to draw down under the load of the starter. There could be many reasons for that. vic

Adam12
04-18-2013, 12:50 AM
Assuming that your dash display icons light as normal, the pre glow lights and goes out after a few seconds of turning key on prior to starting. and even using jumper cables you only hear a click. The next step would be to check the solenoid and the starter. Disconnect the battery and check that the connections at your solenoid are tight and clean with no corrosion. Check the connections at the starter that they are also tight and clean ..
If you have a multi meter you can check the solenoid.
You could also pull the starter and bench test it with jumper cables to see if it will spin..

WWilder
04-18-2013, 01:55 AM
Thanks for both replies - will probably pull the starter as suggest in AM. Wayne

scubanw3
04-18-2013, 02:09 AM
Check the battery/alternator cable at the starter. The cable comes from the alternator and goes to the starter. At the starter, the cable splits and goes to the engine start battery and another cable runs up to the quick jump start assembly at the air filter assembly. Where the cable splits, we have seen internal (hidden) corrosion at that connection. Corrosion at that connection will lower the voltage and amperage to the starter and act like a bad starter solenoid. This is another version of the corrosion and voltage drop we see in the fuse link of the alternator cable. Hope this helps.

Thank you, John
Sprinter Store
http://sprinterstore.com/
A division of Upscale Automotive, Inc.
19460 SW 89th Ave.
Tualatin, OR 97062
503-692-0846

Amboman
04-18-2013, 02:21 AM
The starter contacts may have a slight arc weld through usage and holding them together
take a nylon or rubber faced hammer and hit the stator area of the starter, starter contacts
these days are just copper the current draw ages them quickly the better ones are silver plated
but that's unlikely in the automotive arena.

showkey
04-18-2013, 02:58 AM
I would try swapping the relays position in the drivers fuse box.

There is a diagram on the forum which one is the starter relay...........if the starter relay is not making a good connection no crank will occur.........swapping the relay from another function will prove that relay function. A few have reported relay failures. There are 3 or 4 relays that are the same size and shape in the drivers fuse box.

Sometimes just tapping on the relay or the starter solenoid ( two separate items) will provide a temporary fix and give and indication of the failed part.

One other troubleshooting technique would be testing for voltage drop on the battery cables ( both pos and neg) looking for excessive voltage drop. Unwanted voltage drop is otherwise a poor connection or excessively high resistance. Excessively high resistance in the cables is a known problem referred to earlier and is a corroded green copper mess under the insulation and starts at the cable crimped ends.

You said 3 volts at the solenoid, what is the voltage at the battery and at the starter during the no crank condition?

Aqua Puttana
04-18-2013, 11:59 AM
The start relay is a special high capacity design with large blades. Unless things have changed from the T1N it is a one of a kind special purpose relay that has no similar relay anywhere in the Sprinter. That said, I'm not familiar with the NCV3 as I don't own one.

Not that anyone asked...

I'd put my efforts into checking the cables before going through starter removal. The starters are generally very reliable. You did indicate 30,000 miles. :2cents: vic

showkey
04-18-2013, 06:08 PM
The start relay is a special high capacity design with large blades. Unless things have changed from the T1N it is a one of a kind special purpose relay that has no similar relay anywhere in the Sprinter. That said, I'm not familiar with the NCV3 as I don't own one.

Not that anyone asked...

I'd put my efforts into checking the cables before going through starter removal. The starters are generally very reliable. You did indicate 30,000 miles. :2cents: vic


My recollection is the relays in the drivers fuse box are interchangeable.

WWilder
04-18-2013, 08:08 PM
Well this morning I replaced the starter and the battery - still just have a click when I try to start. Any one else have an idea? Thank you so much!

nemu
04-18-2013, 09:10 PM
for more info on the relay theme see this link:-

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-122907-sprinter.html+relay

jsrmonster
04-18-2013, 10:26 PM
Does your glow plug light momentarily blink on when you key on?

http://youtu.be/Rg96BaPBQ6w

Love that straight thru exhaust.

If the GP light doesn't blink on, the ecu is bad and cannot boot. I had to replace this ecu with one I cloned from junkyard.

http://youtu.be/_Gg9fAl9dKo

It could also be Immo, but it would start and stop immediately if this was the issue.

Jeff
RocketChip

WWilder
04-18-2013, 11:19 PM
Yes the glow plug light comes on - thanks

nikolay0630
04-19-2013, 01:26 AM
You can check the engine ground…….to the body. I had issue with bad ground!

showkey
04-19-2013, 09:29 PM
Back to starter relay, cables and connections.........but would advise more testing and less parts replacing until you narrowed the cause.

WWilder
04-20-2013, 02:43 AM
Today I replaced the following relays:
No3 grey " for the fuel pump Part No: A0035420219
No5 Yellow " Starter Part No: A0025427419
No6 Grey " ESP? Part No: A0025422619
No7 Grey " Engine control Part No: A0025422619
No8 Grey " T15R? Part No: A0025422619
No change - when I try to start it, there is just one click and that is all. Like the battery is completely dead - only it is fully charged.

showkey
04-20-2013, 03:10 AM
Voltage measurement (readings) at the battery, solenoid, starter during no crank?

Can you apply 12 volts to the solenoid and get the engine to crank?

WWilder
04-20-2013, 12:59 PM
If I apply voltage directly to solenoid it does turn over slowly - to slow to start. I need to get someone to hep me with voltage during cranking will let you know. Thanks

Aqua Puttana
04-20-2013, 03:29 PM
My recollection is the relays in the drivers fuse box are interchangeable.
I believe that we are both correct. It appears to me that MB has used the high current large blade relays in multiple positions in the NCV3 Sprinters so they are large blade and they will swap around.

In the T1N the large blade Start Relay is a one of (at least in my 2004). Sorry for any confusion.

More info is here. vic


http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=238893#post238893

bcislander
04-20-2013, 04:35 PM
My money would be on the 'splice' in the heavy gauge cable between the battery & starter.

This is known to corrode & cause the 'no crank' problem you have described. Search the Forum, there are several threads describing the situation & repair.

HTH

Aqua Puttana
04-20-2013, 06:07 PM
My money would be on the 'splice' in the heavy gauge cable between the battery & starter.

This is known to corrode & cause the 'no crank' problem you have described. Search the Forum, there are several threads describing the situation & repair.

HTH
I believe if you go back in this thread you will find that to be a recurring theme in the replies. Parts replacement comments seem to trump any suggestion for testing to isolate the problem.

Carry on. vic

WWilder
04-20-2013, 10:11 PM
Thanks for everyone's input - well I followed Showkey's direction checking the voltages and have found that prior to starting, the large + cable at the starter has 12volts. When attempting to start the voltage drops to about 7 volts. And the wire to the soleniod from the ignition is very low like 1 or 2 volts. There is only a click. When I jump the ignition wire to the solenoid directly with 12 volts the motor does turn over very slowly. This I imagine is due to the low voltage condition on the + battery wire at the starter when the ignition key is in the start position. I haven't pulled the section under the center console - is there anything under there that interrupts the + cable from the battery to the starter? Again - thanks and much appreciation for keeping me on track. Wayne

sailquik
04-20-2013, 11:49 PM
WWilder,
Your issue sounds more and more like the previously mentioned JOINT in the middle of the positive battery cable (it's under the Sprinter, not under the floorboards inside the cab).
This is a know failure area, particularly common in Sprinters that live in cold winter areas where they salt the roads.
Just replace the entire + battery cable from the battery to inside your cab.
Roger

WWilder
04-21-2013, 06:02 PM
I thought I would shortcut troubleshooting the cables by running a jumper cable from the interior battery to the jumper post and ground post under the hood. Seemed logical just parallel them with the jumper cables. Well now the ignition key will not turn. So much for my logic - and more importantly not sure how it can be towed to the dealership in park. Unless someone knows how to clear problem with the ignition switch. I guess I will need to pull the drive shaft.:frown:

sailquik
04-21-2013, 06:46 PM
WWilder:
Are you sure the steering wheel locking mechanism is not simply jammed a little?
Gently work the steering wheel back and forth in both directions while trying to gently turn the key.
NCV3's have had some steering lock issues in the past.
As far as putting your gear selector into neutral, there is an interlock that you can trip that holds the gear selector lever in
Park (P) when the key is not inserted.
Check your Owner's manual for how to access and trip the gear selector lock.
Basically you need to remove the small round (approx. 1 1/4" dia.) plastic plug on the back of the gear
selector housing (just below and behind the gear selector) and push the interlock pin until the gear selector
lever will move back away from the dashboard to the neutral position.
No need to remove the drive shaft unless you are going to be towed a long distance at speeds above 35 mph.
Sounds like you may have some sort of SKEEM problem.
Have you seen the words "Start Error" in your dash board display.
Do you hear several little whirring sounds when you insert the key?
If not the voltage at the key switch may be so low the SKREEM cannot work.
Do your door locks work to remotely lock/unlock your Sprinter?
If not, you may have blown one of the main high capacity fuses the are on the
positive battery cable connection. If so, you will have no power to anything.
Here's what my Operator's Manual has to say about the key not turning:

Problem Possible causes/consequences and Solutions
The key cannot be turned in the ignition lock.
The vehicle voltage is too low.
X Switch off all non-essential consumers, e.g. the seat heating,
interior lighting, and try to turn the key again.
If this does not work:
X Check and, if necessary, replace the starter battery.
or
X Jump-start the vehicle.
or
X Consult a qualified specialist workshop.
The key cannot be turned in the ignition lock.
The steering lock has jammed mechanically.
X Remove the key and insert it again into the ignition lock. Turn
The key cannot be turned in the ignition lock.
The vehicle voltage is too low.
X Switch off all non-essential consumers, e.g. the seat heating,
interior lighting, and try to turn the key again.
If this does not work:
X Check and, if necessary, replace the starter battery.
or
X Jump-start the vehicle.
or
X Consult a qualified specialist workshop.

You said you jumpered the interior (Main Starting) battery (under the drivers side floor board) to the
to the jump start terminal under the hood, or to the front (Auxiliary) battery?
If you have more than the one battery (under the drivers floorboard), I would suggest you disconnect any auxiliary Battery for sure,
and buy a small charger (or better still an new battery) and charge up the battery under the drivers floorboard.
If you have more than one battery, there could very well be an isolator for that battery and if the isolator fails,
the bad battery (either one) could easily draw the current down to the levels you've measured.
Roger

WWilder
04-21-2013, 11:10 PM
Thanks for the in-depth reply - very helpful. Ran through all of the fuses under the drivers seat and for some reason the key cleared. Unfortunately I am still where I began - it only clicks when I try to start with or with being jumped. Much appreciated - Wayne

showkey
04-25-2013, 10:16 PM
Thanks for the in-depth reply - very helpful. Ran through all of the fuses under the drivers seat and for some reason the key cleared. Unfortunately I am still where I began - it only clicks when I try to start with or with being jumped. Much appreciated - Wayne


UPDATE????? So what happened at the dealer?:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn: