sprinter shuts off when i accelerate

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crazyclomp

New member
After hours of searching without result i have to make this post.
Sorry for my bad English writing :p

I have a problem with my 2002 Sprinter 313 cdi.

After i changed mye high pressure pump i cant get it to run again.
First it wouldn't run at all unless i used easy start on it. Towed it to my local Mercedes dealer to read fault codes.
We got fuel rail pressure too low. Measuring only 70 bar, and supposed to have 372 bar.

Ordered a new pump and now i get it to run, but it's hard to start. I have to run the starter for almost 30 seconds before it starts.

No EDC lights, and i have chanced my fuelfilter to an MB filter beacause i had air bubbles i my fuellines.
I have changed all the orings on the lines.

Now it runs fine on idle, and i cant see any airbubbles in the lines. Not even on high rpm's.

But if i try to drive the car it runs fine if i barely touches the pedal.
When i push the pedal i little further the car totaly shuts down and edc lamp go on.
It won't start up after that happen unless i use easy start on it again.

The strange thing is that the car ran fine with the old pump (changed beacause it was leaking) No problem with anything.

Please help me before i sell the car. Hehe :p
 
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crazyclomp

New member
I managaed to drive the car to my local MB Dealer yesterday.
It cuts out if i give it to much throttle and it's even worse i hills.

Seems like if i push the pedal more than 1/4 it cuts. So it was going slow yesterday :p

When i parked it there, i tought i could try to start it again, but no start. It's not even a small hint of it starting.
It's still not a single air bubble in the fuellines.
We're going to scan it for fault codes later today.
 
johnshmit

johnshmit

Well-known member
Rail pressure regulator on the back of the rail. Little green "O" - ring
If you find Rail pressure too high code you have leaking and sticking injector
 
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2

220629

Well-known member
johnshmit said:
Rail pressure regulator on the back of the rail. Little green "O" - ring
...
Click to expand...
I agree that for the hard start, low fuel rail pressure upon cranking, the fuel rail seal is a likely candidate. The engine start with starting fluid and then run is another indication. What I don't know is if the 2002 Sprinter 313 cdi has the OM612 engine and similar fuel rail controls. If it does then there is some history in the NAFTA OM612 engines of that being the problem.

I don't recall the fuel rail seals causing acceleration problems though so again, there may be other injector issues too. Good luck. vic
 
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Altered Sprinter

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
crazyclomp said:
After hours of searching without result i have to make this post.
Sorry for my bad English writing :p

I have a problem with my 2002 Sprinter 313 cdi.

After i changed mye high pressure pump i cant get it to run again.
First it wouldn't run at all unless i used easy start on it. Towed it to my local Mercedes dealer to read fault codes.
We got fuel rail pressure too low. Measuring only 70 bar, and supposed to have 372 bar.

Ordered a new pump and now i get it to run, but it's hard to start. I have to run the starter for almost 30 seconds before it starts.

Hi you have a fuel pressure problem on the OM 611 Cdi 4/inline.
Rail pressure is Code 569....Specified value: 315...Actual value 311 for unit mbar
Idle at Code 46 engine speed 751 mm
The boost pressure will show Specified value 1019 Actual value is 1022 mbar
My guess is with a hard start, you have a fuel dump return via the low pressure fuel pump, air in the injectors.
Fuel low pressure Specified value [2500...4000] Actual value is 2832 unit mbar
Suggest you go to Benz for a correct diagnostic report.
There is a remote change the banjo valve has a block and may be starving your injectors of fuel ..However this is intensive to diagnose, as specialized tools are required.



No EDC lights, and i have chanced my fuelfilter to an MB filter beacause i had air bubbles i my fuellines.
I have changed all the orings on the lines.

Now it runs fine on idle, and i cant see any airbubbles in the lines. Not even on high rpm's.

But if i try to drive the car it runs fine if i barely touches the pedal.
When i push the pedal i little further the car totaly shuts down and edc lamp go on.
It won't start up after that happen unless i use easy start on it again.

The strange thing is that the car ran fine with the old pump (changed beacause it was leaking) No problem with anything.

Please help me before i sell the car. Hehe :p
Click to expand...
PS it's not a car.:rolleyes:
Cheers Richard
 
johnshmit

johnshmit

Well-known member
Aqua Puttana said:
I agree that for the hard start, low fuel rail pressure upon cranking, the fuel rail seal is a likely candidate. The engine start with starting fluid and then run is another indication. What I don't know is if the 2002 Sprinter 313 cdi has the OM612 engine and similar fuel rail controls. If it does then there is some history in the NAFTA OM612 engines of that being the problem.

I don't recall the fuel rail seals causing acceleration problems though so again, there may be other injector issues too. Good luck. vic
Click to expand...
I found this by an extensive experiment ~ 6 years ago when i was a Sprinter guy.
(Some details are lost from my aging brain:)

At low rpm High Pressure Pump volume control solenoid is trying to compensate for the small leak. Upon the sudden acceleration fuel volume increases faster than solenoid can react and we get emergency shutdown and two codes: Fuel Rail Pressure Too Low and Fuel Rail Pressure Too High.
 
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crazyclomp

New member
Thanks for answering :D

The only fault code we got up was a broken glow plug.

But when we checked the fuelrail pressure it wasn't higher than 72 bars when i tried to start it.
When we fired it with easy start, reading the values on idle we got ca 270 bars and the right value should be about 370.
On higher rpm's it was over 500 bar and it shouldn't be mor than ca400.

Did they deliver a wrong pump?
The code in front of the pump on my old pump was 748 CN5
The remanufactured pump i got is numbered 748 CN6

Do anyone know if ther's a difference on these two pumps?

I'm not an expert on the diagnostic part. A friend of me is working on MB, and he scanned the Van (Not car, Altered Sprinter :p )
So what i'm telling you guys is what i told me was the problem.

Soo, anyone got some more toughts now?

The van was working totaly fine before this, so i can't understand that there should be something else than the pump causing the problem.
 
B

Boater

New member
Altered Sprinter said:
PS it's not a car.:rolleyes:
Cheers Richard
Click to expand...
I know that from servicing it (everything costs more, torque settings are at least double and everything takes at least 4 times longer), but I still refer to mine as my other car :smilewink:

crazyclomp - It sounds like you are at a MB Dealer? If so show them Richard's (Altered Sprinter) and John's suggestions - they should be able to make sense of the codes Richard mentions, I think he is referring to codes in MB technical documentation which most of us DIY types don't have access to.

It does kind of sound like you have high and low readings in live data even if you don't have DTCs corresponding to them - I'm not sure if the OM611 was ever used in the US but it all sounds very similar to the situation John describes.

Sorry I can't offer any real help - I'm not a CDI type :D:
 
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crazyclomp

New member
My buddy at MB are calling me tomorrow. Then i can tell him to ask one of the other guys there.
We are not "technicians", more on the bodywork side. Hehe.
Until now this is a problem we've tried to fix ourself. But now it seems like i have to bend over and pay MB to get a full diagnosis on it. Just to bad it's so **** expensive in Norway!

I need the car fast beacause i just startet my own company :p That's why i bought the van :p
 
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crazyclomp

New member
By the way. When the car is on idle, the rpm "jumping" up and down. Not much, but just enough to hear it, and feel it. I can also hear the turbo whistle from the exhaust jumping up and down to :)
But i will give you guys an update tomorrow when i've talked to my friend ;) Thanks for all help so far! :D
 
MillionMileSprinter

MillionMileSprinter

Millionmilesprinter.com
Have you done an injector leak off test? If one or more injectos are dead or dying, it might contribute to your problem. See the bottom of my signature for the directions on how to perform the test. Its really easy. Good luck.
 
Altered Sprinter

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Boater said:
I know that from servicing it (everything costs more, torque settings are at least double and everything takes at least 4 times longer), but I still refer to mine as my other car :smilewink:

crazyclomp - It sounds like you are at a MB Dealer? If so show them Richard's (Altered Sprinter) and John's suggestions - they should be able to make sense of the codes Richard mentions, I think he is referring to codes in MB technical documentation which most of us DIY types don't have access to.

It does kind of sound like you have high and low readings in live data even if you don't have DTCs corresponding to them - I'm not sure if the OM611 was ever used in the US but it all sounds very similar to the situation John describes.

Sorry I can't offer any real help - I'm not a CDI type :D:
Click to expand...
Boater the codes are MB direct from Wis Data EPC.


Crazyclump:
There are two direct evaluations, for diagnostic tests ;one is the common rail for Actual value groups, this being for :Fuel injection.Cell co-ordinate 37.9

Group two is For Control units sensor overview Cell co-ordinate:25.5
Both show the exacting specified values and operating live date data Actual values.

As for genetic codes..no offense but seriously I can 't be bothered with them as to not being accurate.
You have indicated a broken glow plug? CR Common rail MB Number 6111530991/ HW version 14.200/ SW version 38.2003 the diagnostic version will indicate 0/131 -F- pin 14 has failed further tests are required to determine a total failure, or a delayed time out sequence , due to a hot spot burn on the GP needle.

The pump i numbers should make no difference as to OEM and OE manufactures
However reassembly in the correct sequence are critical.
When you own a Sprinter, learn correct MB codes including bosh numbers that are specific to your model VIN and engine, in doing so in time that van will go forever.
oring 612.gif

cd1 (Custom).JPG

cd2 (Custom).JPG

fuel pressure (Custom).JPG
The last schematic backs up what I stated previously as to rail pressure [25000...4000] for specified values on a sensor overview , as to real time live data via EPC Wis 2832 for a prefect Actual value m bar unit. this is for low fuel pressure pumps.
Best of Luck I'm off to another forum.
Cheers Richard
​
 
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Boater

New member
I never realised WIS/EPC was available online, yet to find out the price to buy an access authorisation but pleasantly surprised to see that "private individuals" can get access, you don't need to be an approved garage.
I will look into this some more later!

Private individuals can only access EPC, for WIS you need to be registered in the motor trade.
Costs about £18.50 for one year access to EPC, might be useful for getting part numbers.

Thanks.
 
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Altered Sprinter

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Boater said:
I never realised WIS/EPC was available online, yet to find out the price to buy an access authorisation but pleasantly surprised to see that "private individuals" can get access, you don't need to be an approved garage.
I will look into this some more later!

Private individuals can only access EPC, for WIS you need to be registered in the motor trade.
Costs about £18.50 for one year access to EPC, might be useful for getting part numbers.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
That's why I'm on a manufacture forum based in Australia:smilewink:
It's a unique privilege;Daimler AG is fully backing us.
Cheers Richard
 
Altered Sprinter

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Aqua Puttana said:
Richard,
So what's the site address, or aren't we welcome? vic
Click to expand...
Vic By invitation by manufactures.It's for the pro's, not as a forum where anything goes.
Most of it has severe intellectual rights reserved.It's the same with Daimler, sort of a closed shop.
Sorry, But cheers Richard :hugs:
 
B

Boater

New member
Yes, even access to the EPC as a private individual comes with a big contract to sign up to - the penalty for being found providing information to 3rd parties is 10 times your access fee, so if you find people in the know reluctant to spill the beans that's why!

I can understand Daimler's standpoint that industry access only is to prevent idiots working on their high tech vehicles, but it is kind of hard not to be cynical and see it as extorting additional money from customers for a whole lot of things that any reasonable competent DIY mechanic can do properly and safely. I guess the problem is how to draw a line between what a competent mechanic can do, and what really needs a manufacturer trained technician to do, the thing is being trained by Daimler does not seem to be the requirement, it's about being on some industry list.... which I guess means any back street cowboy mechanic is able to register and buy authorisations to exactly the information they want to keep away from cowboy mechanics. Still musn't grumble, dealer parts dept always sells me the bits I need, it's just a bit of extra hassle trying to describe to them what I am looking for.

I am grateful to anyone who is able to shed light on problems, even when it is a list of things to get a MB technician to look for - that kind of info can save hundreds of pounds/dollars of groping around in the dark for problems they have never encountered before - and lets face it, no-one has encountered everything!
 
Altered Sprinter

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Boater said:
Yes, even access to the EPC as a private individual comes with a big contract to sign up to - the penalty for being found providing information to 3rd parties is 10 times your access fee, so if you find people in the know reluctant to spill the beans that's why!

I can understand Daimler's standpoint that industry access only is to prevent idiots working on their high tech vehicles, but it is kind of hard not to be cynical and see it as extorting additional money from customers for a whole lot of things that any reasonable competent DIY mechanic can do properly and safely. I guess the problem is how to draw a line between what a competent mechanic can do, and what really needs a manufacturer trained technician to do, the thing is being trained by Daimler does not seem to be the requirement, it's about being on some industry list.... which I guess means any back street cowboy mechanic is able to register and buy authorisations to exactly the information they want to keep away from cowboy mechanics. Still musn't grumble, dealer parts dept always sells me the bits I need, it's just a bit of extra hassle trying to describe to them what I am looking for.

I am grateful to anyone who is able to shed light on problems, even when it is a list of things to get a MB technician to look for - that kind of info can save hundreds of pounds/dollars of groping around in the dark for problems they have never encountered before - and lets face it, no-one has encountered everything!
Click to expand...
YOUR spot on Boater..I'm limited as to the privilege I have with Daimler,And that is where I am limited to be more specific on this forum with higher qualified data..."I'm simply not allowed to put in content from Daimler AG That has a certain feature with it on some programs.."not for public use"

The latter comment of yours, there are changes in the pipeline now to allow independents to certain training programs. especially with trucks.
How it will transpire is anyone's guess.

France is the first to push the bar , we just did it down under for Asia Pacific regions.
Crossing over to the N/A side is a tricky one the country code to access EPC for the U.S, and Canada, Mexico is easy enough, but there are restrictions from the U.S as to franchisee agreement in different states, not a legal playing field in the states.
Cheers Richard
 
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