PDA

View Full Version : 4.10 rear ends - do they exist?


jdcaples
01-22-2008, 10:11 PM
If you have an NCV3 and you've seen "4.10" stamped or labeled on your NCV3 rear axle, would you post a picture of it?

I'm dying to know.... really.

-Jon

PS: The window sticker doesn't count. I want to see 4.10 on the axle. Thanks!

floorman
01-22-2008, 10:23 PM
Whats up with that . you need to see to belive. If not 4.10`S in the rear why is my mileage so bad (16mpg).

Altered Sprinter
01-22-2008, 10:42 PM
If you have an NCV3 and you've seen "4.10" stamped or labeled on your NCV3 rear axle, would you post a picture of it?

I'm dying to know.... really.

-Jon

PS: The window sticker doesn't count. I want to see 4.10 on the axle. Thanks! From ctmcdaniel Tom posted these on an older thread2007 + (NCV3) Updated Information (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1244&highlight=axle+thread)
For both gas and Diesel
Richard
5892

5893

5894

5895

jdcaples
01-23-2008, 12:27 AM
Whats up with that . you need to see to belive. If not 4.10`S in the rear why is my mileage so bad (16mpg).

I believe that 4.18 is why your mileage on the highway is so disappointing and the 4.10 does not exist.


Someone prove me wrong and show me a picture of 4.10-ratio-labeled rear axle on a Sprinter.

Please!!!

-Jon

PS: Ok, I'm hoping to inspire people to adjust their vehicle descriptions to something like this

4.10 :bash: 4.18 rear axle

then again maybe that's just silly notion, no one really wants to be reminded of it and perhaps this thread should be killed.

Altered Sprinter
01-23-2008, 12:31 AM
That's just the point, it does not exist. Just another Chrysler thing:idunno:
Richard

kendall69
01-23-2008, 01:22 AM
So the 4.10 on my window sticker, brochure, AND on my build sheet is NOT 4.10????

jdcaples
01-23-2008, 03:58 AM
So the 4.10 on my window sticker, brochure, AND on my build sheet is NOT 4.10????

Only one way to know for sure....

Altered Sprinter
01-23-2008, 04:35 AM
4.182 4.324 4.727 Take off take your pick
Richard

zconnector
01-23-2008, 09:44 AM
Hello,

axle ratios available for NCV3:
AR1: 3,692
AR2: 3,923 (standard for V6 CDI in Europe)
AR3: 4,182
AR4: 4,364
AR5: 4,727
AR6: 5,100

My new V6 CDI comes with 3,923, it is considered the best ratio among many sprinterdrivers in Germany.
But my friend has the 3,692, and it's not bad at all, especially if you drive much highways moderately loaded.


For the record, axle ratios for T1N:
AC1: 3,455
AC2: 4,111
AC3: 4,375
AC4: 4,857
AC5: 5,286
AC6: 3,727
AF9: 5,125

My old 5-cyl CDI had the 3,727 and I would not go lower than that, maybe 4,111 is a solid choice here.

The ratios are from Sprinter Special Equipment books.
Hope this helps.

Roger

Altered Sprinter
01-23-2008, 10:33 AM
Tank you Rodger
On the US Based Sprinter Tins 2002 to 2007 the V6 ran almost 12 months late before the US received the NCV3 Models, they only had the 5 cylinder and autos ..NO Manuals no 4 cylinders or sprintshift
Designated Body series was model 901 902 903 904 for cab chassis models up to 4.4 GVM
so they have very limited, final axle ratios for the 2500 and 3500 series to chose from,
Model year 2007 NCV3 V6 for whatever reason the V6 :bash:has the 215 315 415 engine rating for the 4-in-line with the standard 4.182 final axle ratio, with an optional 3.923 final axle ratio automatic only!.. Only they naturally don't have a 4-in-line
Model year 2008 NCV3 have the 3.923 now as standard for the V6 Diesel and 4.727 For the V6 Gas=Petrol engines
From the body corporate portal the Automatic has one final axle ratio 3.923 This is correct ...Yes> for the model line 902 903 904 up to 4.5 GVM on both single rim and dual rim models they do not have the single super wide rear rim all automatics

What Jon is asking is why has the window sticker stated 4.10?? I know you can't answer this one, but as you can see there is confusion as to which axle ratio they should have as to the sprinters economy only getting between the lowest fuel economy of 12 miles to the gallon up to almost 25 MPG the average seems to be 20 MPG.
Richard

BigBlueBus
01-23-2008, 05:22 PM
What Jon is asking is why has the window sticker stated 4.10?? I know you can't answer this one, but as you can see there is confusion as to which axle ratio they should have as to the sprinters economy only getting between the lowest fuel economy of 12 miles to the gallon up to almost 25 MPG the average seems to be 20 MPG.
Richard

Well I have the 4.18 (better known as the 4.10) and it sucks for our purpose!!!:bash:
I don't forsee ever loading our van past 1500 lbs. and would've jumped for joy at the possibility of a 3.692 axle. So if any of you are able to source one, Please :bow: please :bow: let me know.

jdcaples
01-23-2008, 05:33 PM
...
would've jumped for joy at the possibility of a 3.692 axle. So if any of you are able to source one, Please :bow: please :bow: let me know.


More importantly, if anyone's able to source the rear axle hardware and provide a means to execute all the required adjustments to the related electronic controlling units within the Sprinter, please do. \\


My reading indicates that very major components can be swapped out out of a Sprinter w/o a cascading impact on the finer advancements in design, handling and safety.

You can't even swap out a fuel injector w/o a StarScan tool.

-Jon

sikwan
01-23-2008, 06:13 PM
You can't even swap out a fuel injector w/o a StarScan tool.

Why is that, Jon? :thinking:

contractor
01-23-2008, 07:56 PM
Hello,

axle ratios available for NCV3:
AR1: 3,692
AR2: 3,923 (standard for V6 CDI in Europe)
AR3: 4,182
AR4: 4,364
AR5: 4,727
AR6: 5,100

My new V6 CDI comes with 3,923, it is considered the best ratio among many sprinterdrivers in Germany.
But my friend has the 3,692, and it's not bad at all, especially if you drive much highways moderately loaded.


For the record, axle ratios for T1N:
AC1: 3,455
AC2: 4,111
AC3: 4,375
AC4: 4,857
AC5: 5,286
AC6: 3,727
AF9: 5,125

My old 5-cyl CDI had the 3,727 and I would not go lower than that, maybe 4,111 is a solid choice here.

The ratios are from Sprinter Special Equipment books.
Hope this helps.

Roger

Thank you Roger for the informative post.

I have the 3.72 ratio in my I truck and estimate I carry 1,500 lbs payload and I have plenty of torque. I do not wish I had a higher ratio.

It is puzzling to look at the ratios in the NCV3:idunno:. The T1N 2.7 Diesel had 154 HP and 243 ft/lbs torque and this was increased in the MY07 NCV3 3.0 Diesel to 181 HP (18% increase) and 294 Ft/lbs torque (+21% increase) and so one could make the argument that the ratio could have actually been reduced to improve fuel economy. Instead, the ratios where increased with the expectation these vehicles were going to be fully loaded work trucks or perform heavy trailering. I could see the 3500 really set-up for the high ratio rear ends but most 2500s that I've seen are doing light duty work (dry cleaning, florists, etc). Perhaps they had incorrect marketing info.

zconnector
01-23-2008, 08:28 PM
Well I have the 4.18 (better known as the 4.10) and it sucks for our purpose!!!:bash:
I don't forsee ever loading our van past 1500 lbs. and would've jumped for joy at the possibility of a 3.692 axle. So if any of you are able to source one, Please :bow: please :bow: let me know.

I'm convinced you would like the 3,692 axle. Let me see if I can find any information about swapping parts.
So far what I've read in the german forum, you need to change the whole rear axle.

Roger

jdcaples
01-23-2008, 08:37 PM
Why is that, Jon? :thinking:


The manual states:

NOTE: If installing a new injector, make a note of the seven digit alphanumeric code. You will need to enter it into the scan tool during the Injector Quantity Adjustment procedure.

NOTE: Before performing this procedure, if the ECU has been replaced, or if any injector has been installed anywhere but its original location, make a note of the seven digit alphanumeric codes and the physical location of each injector. You will need to enter them into the scan tool during the Injector Quantity Adjustment procedure.


1. Turn ignition switch “ON”.
2. Using a scantool, select ECU View, then MISCELLANEOUS FUNCTIONS.
3. Select Injector Quantity Adjustment, then NEXT.
4. If the ECU was replaced, the Injector EEPROM Location procedure must be performed. Select YES, then NEXT, and follow the directions on the scan tool. Otherwise, go to step 5.
5. Select the injector(s) that has been replaced, access the keyboard function, and type the seven digit alphanumeric code next to the cylinder number that corresponds to the physical location where the injector has been installed.
6. Click NEXT. The scan tool will prompt to turn the ignition switch off for 12 seconds.
7. Repeat step 5 and 6 for any other injectors that are new, or have been moved from their original location. Once injectors are classified, cycle ignition to complete.
8. Once the seven digit alphanumeric codes for all injectors have been entered into the ECU, cycle ignition to complete the procedure.

jdcaples
01-23-2008, 08:56 PM
I'm convinced you would like the 3,692 axle. Let me see if I can find any information about swapping parts.
So far what I've read in the german forum, you need to change the whole rear axle.

Roger

Don't forget about the electronics and the possible impact on systems like ASR and ESP. I'd love it if it were a simple swap, but I think there are other components that need to be adjusted as well.

If there's a written procedure to follow, including part numbers and required tools, a great deal of ownership satisfaction could be won in North America.

Thanks, Roger!

-Jon

blade625
01-23-2008, 10:58 PM
Don't forget about the electronics and the possible impact on systems like ASR and ESP. I'd love it if it were a simple swap, but I think there are other components that need to be adjusted as well.

If there's a written procedure to follow, including part numbers and required tools, a great deal of ownership satisfaction could be won in North America.

Thanks, Roger!

-Jon

Geez Jon, whatever happened to the days [like back when I had a '70 Chevelle SS] when you could simply swap out the ring and pinion and head to the track. Back then I actually wanted 4.11 gearing.

I climbed under my '07 this morning, and true enough the axle is tagged 4.182..4.10 on my build sheet. I must admit i'm a bit disappointed. My '05 got 23+ mpg running at the 83mph limiter. Now I'm getting 16-18, unloaded/light load, with a very easy foot [granted, this unit isn't even broken in...2600mi. on the clock.

Anyway, I look forward to someone finding an econonical [read: reasonable payback period] solution to our '07 mileage woes.

I'm very happy I found this site [thanks to "Altered States" directly, I found the link in his profile on Topix.com] I hope I learn enough, in time, to actually add to the discussion.

cheers to you all:cheers:

jdcaples
01-23-2008, 11:52 PM
Geez Jon, whatever happened to the days [like back when I had a '70 Chevelle SS] when you could simply swap out the ring and pinion and head to the track. Back then I actually wanted 4.11 gearing.


5910

the machines you knew, gone they are; consumed by advaaaanced technology.

Altered Sprinter
01-24-2008, 01:25 AM
Welcome Blade 625 another bike lover, Seek will love U 2:thumbup:
Nothing to do with Sprinter, being a Ford nut back in the Sixties at least a change over of differentials and axles was so, so, so, simple.. A change of brake pads different widths to match three of , for a simple speedo recalculation, meant changing the colored coded cog on the rear axle and transmission cable to match, 15 of ..depending on your Final axle ratio, and as to which trans was used..two speed..three speed automatic, and manual,three on the tree or four to the floor, not sure if that ended up in the US Falcons, there was options for carb adjustment for sea or high altitude presets with two carburetors versions.. this is a US model I am referring to. I still have all the interchange manuals from Ford that was only available at the service reception desk.

Where is the difference today ? The electronics are where a novice is lost, It's almost impossible to do it on your own , that is for changing over to alternative axle options, The whole Electronic system has to be reset, there are also Modules for the Hydraulic Brake system. that have to be replaced. for the different versions.. that are directly linked to the ESP Adaptive breaking systems including the change over of circuit modules to match "Bosh" which then requires On board Star Computer assist, via your fully trained tech,to re-program and awake the Can to Can system for the alterations, this information is not in your manual of references, although the PMS is optional in certain applications this is required for a hidden additional system, to fully activate the entire set up for special orders such as 4x4 and H/D Sprinters that use a PTO system for various uses, each Sprinter has a reset valve for Brake force Distribution that relies on the on Board computer system to work out speed,, axle ratios,, and Engine torque to deliver the best fuel ratio requirement and braking force for the ABS BAS and EBD to perform the Maxim performance ratio.
This is Why Mercedes has 46 variations, with one thousand possible combinations,based on a customers requirements for a particular vehicle usage. that range in engine options.from the three 4-in lines and two Gas and LP versions not to mention Diesel Electric or Hydrogen based formulations, from Gas, LP, Diesel, and HP Diesel each with different fuel bar ratings to adjust to refined fuels available, and local Emission standards.
Big-Blue-Bus made an excellent evaluation:thumbup: Flower power= a courier who delivers flowers-not a-wholesaler.. "Just a delivery unit." The operator would need a SWB to MWB medium high top. No:2. in the four roof heights available. He would chose a 4-inline 309 CDI with a Yes with a 4.727 final axle ratio with manual trans or a 311 CDi with a 4.364 final axle ratio , Why:thinking: The torque delivered to final axle ratio, acts like a Jakes brake! in the same principle as a train on switch back high elevation tracks it reduces the need for added torque to be delivered to the rear axle to push it , thus saving on fuel by avoiding the need for higher rpm in turn you have less anti-slip on traction which is again why the ESP Adaptive system is used for ABS and ASR EBD etc this operator would not require a V6 engine based purely on the maths of extra fuel consumption that would impact on the profit margin of the operators business economics come into play when you look at the price of fuel in Europe .
If a vehicle was required for medium use, up to say! from the range of 3.5 to 4.9 GVM factoring with the prescribed on board loading limits he would use a 4.182 final axle ratio for maximum fuel consumption and torque control, with a manual transmission preferably a 315 415CDI twin turbo, fuel savings are enormous with this option yet no HP loss, using a 903 904 body set up for specific axle and suspension loading.V6 OK with a184 HP in the range of 1600 to 2600 an automatic is your only option and a single 3.923 final axle ratio for this model range.

Options of transmissions and final axle ratios are specifically matched to the range Of Mercedes-Benz Sprinters, in the last twelve months there has been a massive 167% increase in sales of Mercedes-Benz Sprinters, since the introduction of the new NCV3 Aug 2006 there have been changes in suspensions upgrades dampeners and HP ratings to compensate for the GVM increases , each model year produces a mechanical upgrade. 2008 For Australia good News all sprinters now start at the lowest GVM of 3.8 up from 3.5 GVM , with one van range taking them through to 4.9 GVM on single rims,UK are limited as to speed restrictions on roads because of traffic congestion so who needs a V6 there? Germany gets it all, open slaver for Australia and Russia and China followed By India can't get enough of them. all two factories in Germany are flat out, there has been delays in supply for components because of the huge demand for Commercial based working units,Argentina doubled it's shift capacity and Russia and China are now having factories built to make, more and more Long white Sprinters that will rule the World.. It's not complicated but It is for a novice who may want a sprinter and I will be fair it does not help, if the sales rep has no real clues as to what he sells either, that one exists worldwide.
Richard,
"Yeah I know :crazy:But:I am possesed, and have been fully seduced,by my ladies in white:rad:
It's the wine, too much information from My ladies,they get all excited :smilewink:
5913

zconnector
02-12-2008, 03:14 PM
Don't forget about the electronics and the possible impact on systems like ASR and ESP. I'd love it if it were a simple swap, but I think there are other components that need to be adjusted as well.

If there's a written procedure to follow, including part numbers and required tools, a great deal of ownership satisfaction could be won in North America.

Thanks, Roger!

-Jon

Hi guys,

Haven't forgotten you. Since it was impossible to obtain information from Daimler, my dealer has promised to see if you can
only swap parts inside the axle, but this issue has been discussed in the german forum and the general opinion was that
you only can do it by changing the whole axle, very pricey. Also, you need to adjust the electronics with the tester, but that should not be a problem. As soon as I hear more I'll let you know.

Roger

zconnector
02-14-2008, 09:50 PM
According to my dealer you can change the whole differential inside the axle, parts some EUR 1200 + labour. Much labour and also it is suggested you change new bearings after old ones are pulled out.
Whole new axle around EUR 4600, easy to swap. Reprogramming ABS ESP and tacho are all minor jobs, in both cases needed.
If you calculate, better to swap the whole axle, not much difference. Then you at least have a spare axle you can sell if you want.
I'd say better to keep the axle you ordered...

jdcaples
02-14-2008, 10:14 PM
According to my dealer you can change the whole differential inside the axle, parts some EUR 1200 + labour. Much labour and also it is suggested you change new bearings after old ones are pulled out.
Whole new axle around EUR 4600, easy to swap. Reprogramming ABS ESP and tacho are all minor jobs, in both cases needed.
If you calculate, better to swap the whole axle, not much difference. Then you at least have a spare axle you can sell if you want.
I'd say better to keep the axle you ordered...

Thanks, zconnector. I doubt North American dealerships have the training to perform the reprogramming procedures and the StarScan (US dealership tool for Sprinters and other "Chrysler" vehicles) tool may not be able to "reprogram" the Sprinter's ABS, ESP, tachometer etc....

I would say it's not economically prudent for a North American Sprinter owner to try this.... it would be fun to successfully do it, but it would be for reasons other than saving money or increasing the usable life of the Sprinter.

-Jon

rektide
02-16-2008, 05:08 AM
I'd be very curious about the 3,692 ratio axle. If I ever am fortunate enough to get a NCV3, it'll be getting mostly highway miles.

Altered Sprinter
02-16-2008, 05:52 AM
I'd be very curious about the 3,692 ratio axle. If I ever am fortunate enough to get a NCV3, it'll be getting mostly highway miles.
You mean 3.923 which is now standard on the N/American NCV3 as the newer version sart to show on the lots.
Richard

Sprinter
02-16-2008, 06:43 AM
You mean 3.923 which is now standard on the N/American NCV3 as the newer version sart to show on the lots.
Richard

I don't think so. He really means 3.692.

3.9 is standard for 2008 but still high RPM's. He meant 3.692 which was mentioned earlier in this post by zconnector from Germany, they have 3.692 there available (and that sounds so good)

Sprinter
02-16-2008, 06:45 AM
.....If I ever am fortunate enough to get a NCV3.....

do You want mine?

looking for sale or trade for diesel car (old Mercedes or TDI)

zconnector
02-17-2008, 06:51 AM
I don't think so. He really means 3.692.

3.9 is standard for 2008 but still high RPM's. He meant 3.692 which was mentioned earlier in this post by zconnector from Germany, they have 3.692 there available (and that sounds so good)

hehe, I'm actually from Finland, not Germany. But I bought my new van from Germany direct.
Indeed I can only recommend the 3.692 ratio for a highway driver, my friend has it and I have driven the van long distances. Since my van is limited to 90 km/h I chose the standard all-around ratio 3.923, which will be actually lower when I change my summer wheels to 18 inch with 255/60-18 tires, the diameter is much larger than standard and
actually does the same as a lower axle ratio. To be specific, the wheels will be 51 mm or 7,2 % larger in diameter than the standard 235/65-16 wheels.

Here the wheel, produced by MAK in Italy, type SUV & 4 x 4 Sierra
http://www.makwheels.it/rightbrd/m_brd.asp?lang=EN

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/SureBlue/InterTyre118.jpg

Roger

zconnector
02-17-2008, 06:59 AM
pic
6289

Altered Sprinter
02-17-2008, 07:41 AM
55 mph :eek:
Richard

Sprinter
02-17-2008, 03:18 PM
.....To be specific, the wheels will be 51 mm or 7,2 % larger in diameter than the standard 235/65-16 wheels.
Roger


Our standard tires are 245/75 16
I am doing 235/85 16 for the same reason - to lower the ratio, that is 1,5" in diameter and 5MPH difference in speed

Why is Your van limited to 90km/h?

zconnector
02-17-2008, 08:16 PM
Why is Your van limited to 90km/h?

It is registered as a truck, and all trucks, also the light ones, are limited to 90 km. Why? Because courier vans running day and night on german highways caused lots of accidents driven by fatigue drivers; needless to say a full loaded Sprinter with 160 km speed does not have the brakes nor the driveability of a BMW. These Sprinters were commonly called killer sprinters and something had to be done so they came up with these ridiculous speed limits in EU in 2006.

Why is my van then registered as a truck? Because we have a huge car tax and trucks do not have any tax. Also, registered
as a truck I can deduct the VAT which is not the case if it was registered as a van or passenger car in my company balances.
Do I plan to keep it limited? Well...

Altered Sprinter
02-18-2008, 05:24 AM
See How lucky you guys are stateside! It's tough on the Euro side of the pond.
Mind you down under Rafferty rules! no speed limiters ... just 110K max speed limit for everyone except 18 wheelers trucks they are limited to 100K.
Still it's fun to crack the ton, once in a blue moon:bounce: where it's safe!.."To do it that is".:bash:
Richard