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gaiex
02-26-2013, 09:41 AM
Hello all,

I'm looking for some information on the OM642 engine, since I would like to add a extra oil cooler for hot summer days and I'm researching where to get an oil line to connect the new oil cooler.
I found these two connections on the engine block that on EPC says its a oil in and out but sometimes the EPC is not correct about the parts names, so just to confirm if any one of you guys know what is for:

PS: Also, what sprinter or car model have "something" connected here?

http://i.imgur.com/BsIggYT.jpg

Aqua Puttana
02-26-2013, 10:31 AM
First let me extend you a hale and hearty welcome to the forum. 50740

I can't answer your specific questions. This is a recent thread that contains some info about the oil cooler. Turns out the the OP actually meant EGR Cleaning. :idunno: The resulting discussions may offer you some of the informtion you seek.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25051

Good luck. vic

sailquik
02-26-2013, 12:07 PM
gaiex,
Why do you feel that your Sprinter OM-642 engine needs an oil cooler?
It should run in the 190 deg. F temperature range (on the OEM thermostat in the cooling system),
and it needs that temp to meet emissions standards.
Use of full synthetic 5w-40 Mobil 1 ESP Formula M would seem to have the full temperature range
covered pretty well.
So, are you aware of some problem with your Sprinter that an auxiliary oil cooler would correct?
If it's just the summer heat, there are literally 1,000's of Sprinters all over the planet that run all
day long in very high ambient temperatures and they do not have/need any additional oil cooling.
Roger

suzieque
02-26-2013, 01:44 PM
have a look at my post here http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=110508&postcount=10

there is a PDF attached to the post. The PDF contains installation instructions for installing an extra oil filtration system. Page 7 shows a location you can use for an oil feed.

gaiex
02-26-2013, 10:46 PM
Thank you for your reply's,

I have been reading some posts here on sprinter-source forum for 1 year (since in my company there are 20 sprinter van) and you guys know so much stuff about the sprinter, I didn't find anything I could contribute more than you have already done.
But now I really need some advice and your expertise on the OM642 engine, since I don't have any on my sprinters! :thumbup:

The oil cooler I'm planing to add is to my personal car, a 2008 CLK 320CDI with the OM642 engine, that is running with a bit of power upgrade, and I have some more mods planed to do to increase it a little bit, and the oil cooler is a preventive future for the hot summer days here in Portugal. I'm not a racer, but I like the extra power :rolleyes:
( expected increase of 20hp to ~300hp and ~700Nm )

So, I read the post suzieque mentioned and realized that I was not completely wrong about the subject, that holes in the block are really oil lines, but can I ask why to get the oil from the block and connect it to the oil pan?
The hole in the block that in the article connect the oil line was the left one on my picture correct?
What about the right hole, maybe a oil return line? that would be great :hmmm:

Thank you

suzieque
02-26-2013, 11:42 PM
well, like a power steering cooler, or charge air cooler, you need a pressurized input from somewhere on the engine to the cooler and you need an output from the cooler to a less pressurized somewhere on the engine. That way the oil will flow in a circle from the engine to the cooler and back to the engine. Some of the oil ports in your picture may be under pressure so you cannot return to a pressurized port because the oil will not flow. Plus you have to be careful about removing oil from a port that needs the pressure to lubricate.

I am guessing that the oil in the oil pan is under less pressure than the oil fitting next to the oil filter housing, that is why the filtration system recommends going back to the oil pan.

By the way, the Mercedes forums are very good too, I post OM642 questions periodically, under a different nickname though, http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=6

gaiex
02-27-2013, 12:24 AM
well, like a power steering cooler, or charge air cooler, you need a pressurized input from somewhere on the engine to the cooler and you need an output from the cooler to a less pressurized somewhere on the engine. That way the oil will flow in a circle from the engine to the cooler and back to the engine. Some of the oil ports in your picture may be under pressure so you cannot return to a pressurized port because the oil will not flow. Plus you have to be careful about removing oil from a port that needs the pressure to lubricate.

I am guessing that the oil in the oil pan is under less pressure than the oil fitting next to the oil filter housing, that is why the filtration system recommends going back to the oil pan.

By the way, the Mercedes forums are very good too http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=6

Ok, I understand, but I have to see because my oil pan is different than the sprinter oil pan.

About the mercedes forums, I'm registed in many forums but no such technical details and information like here :thumbup:

suzieque
02-27-2013, 01:15 AM
Ok, I understand, but I have to see because my oil pan is different than the sprinter oil pan.

it is common for people that install oil lubricated superchargers to have to drill and thread a return line on the oil pan. you may have to do the same for your oil cooler project.

by the way, I saw your same question on the jeep forum, I only responded here because this forum is where I posted the original PDF file.

good luck with your project, I'd like to see pictures when you are done!

jdcaples
02-27-2013, 01:21 AM
Ok, I understand, but I have to see because my oil pan is different than the sprinter oil pan.

About the mercedes forums, I'm registed in many forums but no such technical details and information like here :thumbup:


There are around 24 variants of the OM642 v6 3.0L engines in the US market.

They are all subtly different, as you seem to have discovered.

Good luck in your research

Jon

gaiex
06-25-2013, 01:09 AM
Hi again,

Is there any place viable to connect an oil temp sensor? Maybe at the oil line we talked above or is there other place on the engine?

I tried in the oil pan on the oil drain place, but no go, too much exposed to the elements (in my car) and after the speed increases the oil temp drops! lol the air passing at the back of the sensor makes it cool down and read lower temps!


PS: I made an adapter in the oil drain bolt to fit the 1/8NPT oil temp sensor at the oil pan!
Need another hole on the engine! :)

gaiex
08-28-2013, 02:02 AM
Ok,

Installed a oil temp sensor for my Greddy Multi D/A gauge directly in my engine block.

Here is what I did:
http://i.imgur.com/BsIggYT.jpg

I used the right connection to install an oil temp sensor with a custom adapter, and I found out that it's an oil channel to the oil pan, after seeing a dismantled engine to confirm.

But now I'm confused, it could be the return oil line from the block to the oil pan!
When the oil is cold, I only have temp readings (oil flow) sometimes (if I'm accelerating for example) and when hot I allways have readings/flow!

Here are some pictures of the block and the oil lines of the dismantled engine:
http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/gaiex/library/CLK%20320%20CDI

suzieque
08-28-2013, 03:16 PM
Here are some pictures of the block and the oil lines of the dismantled engine:
http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/ga...LK%20320%20CDI

the url you posted does not work, can you it again?

gaiex
08-28-2013, 04:38 PM
the url you posted does not work, can you it again?

I think I fixed the link, you can try again ;)

piper1
08-28-2013, 05:40 PM
If you are going to feed a cooler from one of these locations and then discharge the oil back into the pan you will do FAR more harm than good. You will be depriving the engine of significant oil flow. A bypass oil filter system has a very tiny orifice that severely restricts oil flow so it does not rob the engine of required oil volume. If you set up an oil cooler the same way (with the restriction)the benefits will be almost nil.

An oil cooler must be a full flow arrangement...and doing that on the OM642 is not an easy task. You would need to tap into the oil filter circuit to do it and send 100 percent of the oil through the cooler all the time.

As sailquick said...you really don't need to add cooling. Considering your HP increase is only modest...I really wouldn't worry about it. Most of the oils on the MB229.51 list can easily tolerate 260 degrees F or 130 C as on oil pan (sump) temperature and the oil is regularly exposed to temps in the engine 4 times that.

Worry more about cooling your transmission (if it's an automatic). It will be the first point of failure if you are going to have any problems. I've added 120 HP to other diesel engines and never had an engine oil issue....but boy have I bought a bunch of transmission parts!

Good Luck.

gaiex
08-28-2013, 08:29 PM
If you are going to feed a cooler from one of these locations and then discharge the oil back into the pan you will do FAR more harm than good. You will be depriving the engine of significant oil flow. A bypass oil filter system has a very tiny orifice that severely restricts oil flow so it does not rob the engine of required oil volume. If you set up an oil cooler the same way (with the restriction)the benefits will be almost nil.

An oil cooler must be a full flow arrangement...and doing that on the OM642 is not an easy task. You would need to tap into the oil filter circuit to do it and send 100 percent of the oil through the cooler all the time.

As sailquick said...you really don't need to add cooling. Considering your HP increase is only modest...I really wouldn't worry about it. Most of the oils on the MB229.51 list can easily tolerate 260 degrees F or 130 C as on oil pan (sump) temperature and the oil is regularly exposed to temps in the engine 4 times that.

Worry more about cooling your transmission (if it's an automatic). It will be the first point of failure if you are going to have any problems. I've added 120 HP to other diesel engines and never had an engine oil issue....but boy have I bought a bunch of transmission parts!

Good Luck.

Thanks for your reply,

Any thoughts about the place where I connected the oil temp sensor as described above?

About the oil cooler, the only place is to adapt the oil filter housing (using a used one) or fabricate a aluminium plate to replace the heat exchanger on the center of the engine.

PS: transmission oil cooler is on the way, there are several that I can use from other MB models ;)

suzieque
08-28-2013, 11:07 PM
I think I fixed the link, you can try again ;)

the link works now thanks.

yikes, you really did a tear down of the engine. any chance you could post a couple more pictures of the back of the engine?

I recall the words of my service advisor in that the CRD cannot be torn down and reassembled by a back yard mechanic. Good luck in getting your oil cooler project going, I hope it works out for you!

gaiex
08-28-2013, 11:20 PM
the link works now thanks.

yikes, you really did a tear down of the engine. any chance you could post a couple more pictures of the back of the engine?

I recall the words of my service advisor in that the CRD cannot be torn down and reassembled by a back yard mechanic. Good luck in getting your oil cooler project going, I hope it works out for you!

It's not my engine :smilewink: it's a broken one that is at my dealer, that I can look when I need :thumbup:

piper1
08-29-2013, 03:33 AM
Thanks for your reply,

Any thoughts about the place where I connected the oil temp sensor as described above?

About the oil cooler, the only place is to adapt the oil filter housing (using a used one) or fabricate a aluminium plate to replace the heat exchanger on the center of the engine.

PS: transmission oil cooler is on the way, there are several that I can use from other MB models ;)

Its a good place for an oil temp sensor. The oil behind that plug is on its way to the forward main bearing (among other places). Oil is pumped into components and drains naturally (falls) back to the pan. The closest thing to oil being plumbed back to the pan is the oil coming out of the turbo, the rest squirts out of whatever it is lubricating and gravity takes over and the oil finds a convenient spot to fall (like the area where the timing chains are).

You could get a machine shop to make a plate out of billet aluminum to sandwich between the block and the oil filter housing, to direct the engine oil out to your cooler and then back into the engine (filter before the cooler though...it just works better). My guess is you would need to make the plate around 1 to 1 1/4 inches thick so you could use 1/2 inch pipe size fittings or better yet 3/4 inch pipe size. You want to minimize restriction at start up when the oil is cold. Also, the cooler will need to be located below the filter housing so it does not add any real delay to oil pressure build at start up. This will however result in the volume of oil the cooler and it's lines hold, to not be drained on a service. This could mean up to 1.5 liters depending on the size of your cooler. You'll also need to remember its out there...any front end collision means instant loss of oil pressure.

I'd wait and see what you oil temps are. If they stay under 260F the cooler will cause more engine wear than it will solve (primarily due to start up issues). Your engine already has a pretty good oil cooler in it...and it is also thermostatically controlled mainly to aid in engine oil warming at start up. If you cool the oil...it may just end up heating it back up.

I admire your spirit of innovation.....and I'm not trying to dampen it...I just don't think there is a lot to gain here...and possibly more to lose....and I speak from experience.

Now....adding some extra cooling capacity to the EGR cooler...if you are going to add HP and really drive it hard....that would have a lot of benefit.

gaiex
08-29-2013, 12:42 PM
Its a good place for an oil temp sensor. The oil behind that plug is on its way to the forward main bearing (among other places). Oil is pumped into components and drains naturally (falls) back to the pan. The closest thing to oil being plumbed back to the pan is the oil coming out of the turbo, the rest squirts out of whatever it is lubricating and gravity takes over and the oil finds a convenient spot to fall (like the area where the timing chains are).

You could get a machine shop to make a plate out of billet aluminum to sandwich between the block and the oil filter housing, to direct the engine oil out to your cooler and then back into the engine (filter before the cooler though...it just works better). My guess is you would need to make the plate around 1 to 1 1/4 inches thick so you could use 1/2 inch pipe size fittings or better yet 3/4 inch pipe size. You want to minimize restriction at start up when the oil is cold. Also, the cooler will need to be located below the filter housing so it does not add any real delay to oil pressure build at start up. This will however result in the volume of oil the cooler and it's lines hold, to not be drained on a service. This could mean up to 1.5 liters depending on the size of your cooler. You'll also need to remember its out there...any front end collision means instant loss of oil pressure.

I'd wait and see what you oil temps are. If they stay under 260F the cooler will cause more engine wear than it will solve (primarily due to start up issues). Your engine already has a pretty good oil cooler in it...and it is also thermostatically controlled mainly to aid in engine oil warming at start up. If you cool the oil...it may just end up heating it back up.

I admire your spirit of innovation.....and I'm not trying to dampen it...I just don't think there is a lot to gain here...and possibly more to lose....and I speak from experience.

Now....adding some extra cooling capacity to the EGR cooler...if you are going to add HP and really drive it hard....that would have a lot of benefit.

Thanks for your reply,

The max oil temp I've read so far is 260F for a short time when pulling hard with very hot summer day, but was for only 5-10 minutes!

The next thing I will do is to install a transmission oil cooler, and I'll use the W211/W219 or newer W207/W212 one since they are bigger.

EGR cooler, I was thinking to disconnect the EGR, any disavantages on that?

Thanks

PS: I allready have a 2260Vklr installed and china intercooler that will be replaced by a garret one.

piper1
08-30-2013, 01:25 AM
EGR cooler, I was thinking to disconnect the EGR, any disavantages on that?



From a combustion, cooling, efficiency, engine longevity, and performance standpoint, removing the EGR is the best thing you could do to the engine. From an environmental stand point...not so good. There has been a LOT of discussion about this on this forum....from both sides....not all of it sane or logical. Its a discussion you need to have with yourself....I'm not wading into it again.

Good Luck and report back whatever you end up doing and the results.