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mawsea
02-21-2013, 06:16 AM
I was wondering if anybody could tell me the symptoms of a failing torque converter?
At lite acceleration or deceleration I get the rumble. Also it feels like the van does not shift down properly, like if I'm in 4th and it's rumbling and I tap it into 3rd it feels better. I'm easy on the van always looking to drive it for best fuel mileage, it's not like it has ever been abused. Catch is, sometimes it shifts fine w/ no rumble, but mostly it rumbles to the point it is not a pleasure to drive. Two years ago I did the DARF kit, Fluid and filter change w/ shell ATF and drained the converter and cleaned the speed sensors. It worked great for a month or two but came back worse then ever. I was never able to connect w Dr.A and so took it to the Lynwood Mercedes Dealer. They diagnosed it as a failed torque converter but the service salesman could not give me a logical answer as how they came to that conclusion and I do not trust their upselling and scare techniques. Dr. A advised a re-adapt, Mercedes said they did it but maybe they didn't because they also stated they washed my van when obviously not. I have no confidence in the Mercedes dealer but maybe after all they are correct in their diagnosis?
So what exactly are the symptoms of a failing Torque Converter?
Answers are appreciated because I have an opportunity to purchase a good used converter.

Aqua Puttana
02-21-2013, 11:48 AM
...So what exactly are the symptoms of a failing Torque Converter?
Answers are appreciated because I have an opportunity to purchase a good used converter.
In my experience a bad torque converter often causes an ugly burned smell in the trasmission fluid, but my experience is limited so I did a search. These links were interesting to me... in no particular order. There were more hits.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5039041_symptoms-failure-transmission-torque-converter.html

http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/a2_2.html
Clicking RETURN takes you here.
http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/a2-automatic-transmission-test.html#a22

http://www.automotiveforums.com/t666942-bad_torque_converter_symptoms.html

Good luck. vic

sailquik
02-21-2013, 12:48 PM
Mawsea,
Have you tried a fluid and filter change?
What fluid did you use when you changed the fluid and filter and cleaned the speed sensors 2 years ago?
How many miles have you put on in those 2 years.
A fluid/filter change (including the torque convertor) is a lot less expensive than a new torque convertor
and alot easier to do.
I'd get the MB BEVO specified fluid, even if it cost > $20.00 per quart.
Since your came from the Dodge/Freightliner days, I'd even suggest getting the MOPAR/Dodge
Sprinter specific fluid. Pricey, yes, but I works really well and could help to eliminate your vibration/
shudder.
Also have you checked the driveshaft over very thoroughly...... and the center carrier bearing?
Roger

talkinghorse43
02-21-2013, 12:49 PM
I was wondering if anybody could tell me the symptoms of a failing torque converter?

Seems to me there should be a lot of metal chips/chunks in the pan/filter.

Aqua Puttana
02-21-2013, 01:33 PM
Seems to me there should be a lot of metal chips/chunks in the pan/filter.
I've been reading from the internet a bit so that makes me doubly dangerous.

When it comes to TC failures chips and such are like the burned smell I mentioned. It depends upon the failure mode.

The links I provided do give some tests an operator can do to try and isolate drive train problems. You need to read a bit to separate the wheat from the chaff though. vic

abittenbinder
02-21-2013, 02:39 PM
At lite acceleration or deceleration I get the rumble.

Catch is, sometimes it shifts fine w/ no rumble, but mostly it rumbles to the point it is not a pleasure to drive.

Two years ago I did the DARF kit, Fluid and filter change w/ shell ATF and drained the converter and cleaned the speed sensors. It worked great for a month or two but came back worse then ever.

Dr. A advised a re-adapt, Mercedes said they did it but maybe they didn't because they also stated they washed my van when obviously not.

This is a torque converter clutch issue, which can be glazed clutch linings or an issue with the TCC control.

We know the DARF cured the RSN for a 2 month period. What we do not know- did symptoms return because TCC adaptation overcame the mod or is there a blockage or partial blockage of the DARF orifice.

Reset of adaptation should have produced dramatic results in either case.

I would recommend dropping the pan for an examination of orifice, fluid and magnet. If you took extra care in keeping the drained fluid clean and it has low miles, you can reuse it.

Go visit a Dodge Sprinter dealer and have them reset the transmission adaptives. Don't let them worry about any relearning of adaptives and let me know what happens.

BTW, how many miles on this vehicle?

Doktor A

mawsea
02-22-2013, 05:49 AM
183,000 miles on the van and probably no more then 50k in the past two years.
Light to medium loads and 90% rural highway.
I used the Shell ATF that so many people had success with here.
There was a lot of chips in the filter but from what I understand that is not abnormal. No burnt smell.
If it's worth the extra cost I am more than willing to try the MB OEM fluid.
I've looked the drive shaft over and don't really know what I am looking for. I didn't see anything abnormal.
Is the torque converter clutch inside the torque converter? I'll google it.....

talkinghorse43
02-22-2013, 12:50 PM
So, at 50k miles since the last fluid/filter change, it's not too early to do it again (any MB 236.14 spec approved fluid is OK). Based on my experience, the chips in the filter should be reduced from your previous change - if not, that might indicate a problem.

sailquik
02-22-2013, 01:20 PM
Mawsea,
Does your annoying "shudder"/vibration have a frequency?
Does it happen in all gears or just one gear?
I've been successful in getting a warranty replacement of the driveshaft in
my new 2011 NCV3 170"wb because I was able to show the dealer that the
vibration from the drive shaft happens at the same speed and the frequency is
far to high (~ around 2000 cpm) to be tire or wheel related and it happens in
3rd 4th and 5th gear (overdrive).
The frequency remains the same even as the engine RPMs change in the different
gears......so driveshaft....not tires or transmission.
Roger

mawsea
02-23-2013, 09:34 PM
Thanks for all your input, at this point I am going to change the fluid, filter and drop the pan in order to give it a good look over. Also I will go back to a Dodge dealer and do a re- adapt, although I would rather drive across the country and have Andy look it over.
One other thing I have noticed, is that when coasting down hill in drive it will actually slow down but sometimes it will coast fine and gain speed as I'm going down the hill.

talkinghorse43
02-24-2013, 03:12 AM
One other thing I have noticed, is that when coasting down hill in drive it will actually slow down but sometimes it will coast fine and gain speed as I'm going down the hill.

Normal to slow down when your foot is off the accelerator. But, will speed up if the hill is steep enough. MB built it to make use of the exhaust braking provided by the turbo, so the tranny still transmits torque, even when you lift your foot.

PATECO
02-20-2018, 02:44 PM
I am getting these same symptoms, along with a burnt smell to the fluid. The syptoms are steadily getting worse. How hard is it to change the converter?

Nautamaran
02-20-2018, 11:31 PM
“Just a few bolts...” And of course you’d need to drop the transmission...

The outcome isn’t clear, but from my read of this thread a fluid change and clutch adaptation may solve it?

Midwestdrifter
02-21-2018, 01:22 AM
Converter change is not technically difficult. But you need to drop the trans. A failing converter will usually drop clutch debris in the trans pan, which will show up on the filter.

AdrianD
02-21-2018, 08:05 AM
Those clutch debris will clog up the filter eventually. If the converter is really bad, it will clog it pretty quickly.

Aqua Puttana
02-21-2018, 01:31 PM
If it is clutch material, water/moisture will ruin the clutches fairly quickly. Some reports about other vehicle NAG1 transmissions are that water leaking through the dip stick tube seal can be a source. That hasn't been a common topic here for Sprinters, but worth considering/checking if clutch material failure is found.

I believe that Dennis has said there are some critical parameters for proper TC installation.

vic

PATECO
02-21-2018, 01:47 PM
ďThe outcome isnít clear, but from my read of this thread a fluid change and clutch adaptation may solve it?

It is time for a fluid and filter change, but was postponing in case it needs a new TC. I guess I will do the fluid/filter service, and see how much crap is in the filter. What is needed to do a clutch adaptation?

PATECO
02-21-2018, 02:13 PM
I just got of the phone with Doktor A, and he recommends the Fluid change first, and if that does not resolve the issue he says he has a side plate kit for the transmission that should. I will keep the thread updated.

AdrianD
02-22-2018, 12:47 PM
I believe that Dennis has said there are some critical parameters for proper TC installation.

vic

If memory serves me right, measuring the correct installed depth is very important, as is installing the transmission together with the properly seated converter, otherwise there is a big chance of breaking the oil pump gears.

kite
03-09-2018, 07:00 AM
Apologies for the duplicate post, I got no traction when posting in Dr. A's speed sensor cleaning thread (maybe b/c it's in the T1N Database? I'm not sure if I broke forum protocol...).


I have some annoying transmission behavior on my 2004 2500 140.

behavior 1.
During normal acceleration from a stop, upshifts have the feeling of slipping (especially to 2nd and 3rd gears). Let's say the shift starts from 2300rpm, RPMs will drop to around 2000rpm, and stay there while speed increases, then rise again once engine speed and transmission speed match. If I step harder on the accelerator during this "not fully engaged time," engine speed quickly drops below 2000, fully engaging the higher gear.

behavior 2
When coasting, RPMs drop some as expected. When I press on the accelerator, RPMs overshootby 3-400rpm, then settle into gear.
Example: I can be coasting at 22mph @ 1200 rpm. When I press the accelerator, RPMs briefly reach 18-1900, then drop into gear at 1500rpm.
Here's a video that hopefully shows it: https://photos.app.goo.gl/w1fAIUC6Y63aJLnP2


Do any of you experience these issues? Understand them? Have suggestions for improvement? This disconnected/delayed response is pretty annoying and isn't typical of any other automatic transmission I've driven. I'm no expert, but I can imagine these both being TCC issues.


I have the Europarts-sd service kit so I could do a fluid & filter change this weekend if I get feedback that's likely to help. What about speed sensor cleaning?
No fluid had wicked up to the TCM as of a recent trip under the drivers seat.


Background
I replaced the transmission 18 months and 20k miles ago with a used transmission that had 90k miles on it. The recommendation to replace came from a local shop, but I didn't do my research well enough at the time and should have tried to work on it myself, or at least buy a rebuilt unit.
Fluid level is correct, and the correct fluid was used when it was swapped.

I had the transmission codes read a few thousand miles ago. The below codes were cleared and didn't come back after 100 miles so I'm thinking they could have lingered from the transmission swap?
[HISTORY] P 2311 CAN communication with traction system is faulty
[HISTORY] P 2312 CAN communication with traction system is faulty or engine temperature is implausible

Mxracer68
04-15-2019, 05:11 PM
Did any one ever figure out what was causing these symptoms im having same exact symptoms and issues please let me know.