what percentage of T1N's will get the black death?

FFR5445

New member
Just trying to gauge the problem. Is the black death something that all sprinters will eventually get if driven enough? Is it a problem more prone to early models vs later models?

JL
 

220629

Well-known member
Just trying to gauge the problem. Is the black death something that all sprinters will eventually get if driven enough? Is it a problem more prone to early models vs later models?

JL
It would be nice to see you get a response based upon data, but I doubt that a database exists. My opinion based upon my memory of the threads in this forum is that there are many Sprinters running around without any problem with injector seal seat leakage (Black Death).

The good news is that if you do a regular (each oil change) remove the black plastic cover visual inspection for signs of leakage, then you will catch any problem early enough that it will not be a major repair. The inspection requires about 15 minutes total and an Allen wrench. The leakage problem being major increases the longer it remains unrepaired.

Sorry I can't offer more. vic
 

talkinghorse43

Well-known member
Might be an in-line engine problem; no reports I'm aware of for the NCV3's v6. Don't know if a later model inline engine (like the present OM651) will get it because it seems the injector hold down tensioning procedure has been changed by MB. The procedure was to end tensioning with a 90 degree turn to load the hold down, but MB's WIS now specifies ending with 2 - 90 degree turns to load it.
 
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MillionMileSprinter

Millionmilesprinter.com
Maybe this should be a "This is what I drive, this is how many miles I have and I DON'T have Black Death" thread.
Informal but somewhat informative.
I'll start.
'02 T1N 116,xxx miles. No Black Death.
 

talkinghorse43

Well-known member
Not a simple analysis. For instance, 4 of my injectors have been replaced since new due to fault (not black death). I recently got the black death leak on #2 after 170k miles of service (was replaced at 99k miles). #5 was replaced at 30k miles and hasn't leaked. #4 injector is still original and has not started to leak yet (274k miles to-date).
 
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mawsea

sprinter guru
enough that is worth checking every time you change the oil. Thanks to this forum I made it part of my regular scheduled maintenance and first discovered it around 160k and have since replaced all the hold down bolts and washers. It wasn't cheap to repair but if I had let it go longer it would have been a much more difficult job.
 

220629

Well-known member
...
The good news is that if you do a regular (each oil change) remove the black plastic cover visual inspection for signs of leakage, then you will catch any problem early enough that it will not be a major repair. ... Sorry I can't offer more. vic
Oops. A brief telephone conversation today with a T1N Sprinter owner revealed that just within a few days the seal may fairly quickly deteriorate to a noticeable chuffing sound from leakage. (Possibly a broken hold down bolt?)

An inspection will still help to avert a major repair, but don't ignore any changes in operating sounds. If you notice a new noise it may be worthwhile to pull the plastic cover and check the injectors even if your last inspection was fairly recent.

vic

P.S. - I trust that things will work out OK for him in the end.
 

owner

Oz '03 316CDI LWB ex-Ambo Patient Transport
The procedure was to end tensioning with a 90 degree turn to load the hold down, but MB's WIS now specifies ending with 2 - 90 degree turns to load it.
Its always been specified as 7Nm+90+90 on the OM612 in my ML270CDI. I've done 4 out of the five so far on that.

I've not had to do a Sprinter injector yet, but seeing as how its also a OM612, I will be doing 90+90 for sure when the time comes. Maybe this is why you guys Stateside have so much black death - someone made a mistake in the WIS.
 

220629

Well-known member
Its always been specified as 7Nm+90+90 on the OM612 in my ML270CDI. I've done 4 out of the five so far on that.

I've not had to do a Sprinter injector yet, but seeing as how its also a OM612, I will be doing 90+90 for sure when the time comes. Maybe this is why you guys Stateside have so much black death - someone made a mistake in the WIS.
That would explain a repeat failure after replacement, but shouldn't all engines be assembled similarly at the factory regardless of their intended market/destination?

vic


Edit: (after TH43's "Thanks".)
If I need to replace any injectors, until I see some good results of 90+90 posted, I've already decided that 90 then 45 degrees is what I'll apply. I'm nervous about breaking a bolt. My guess is that another 45 is safe. A big FWIW on this one.
 
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Glow Plug

MB STAR C3 Owner
Its always been specified as 7Nm+90+90 on the OM612 in my ML270CDI. I've done 4 out of the five so far on that.

I've not had to do a Sprinter injector yet, but seeing as how its also a OM612, I will be doing 90+90 for sure when the time comes. Maybe this is why you guys Stateside have so much black death - someone made a mistake in the WIS.
Are the hold down bolts identical to the ones on the ML270CDI? Same size, length, and part #, do they engage the same number of threads? Is the copper washer the same thickness? If everything does match up to be the same, then it probably is a mistake in the WIS.
 

owner

Oz '03 316CDI LWB ex-Ambo Patient Transport
Ive only had one repeat failure using 7Nm+90+90 and that was on an injector that had a groove worn into its face. Ive done 30000km on some of them.

Yes they are the exact same parts. And exact same engine.

But dont just take my word for it. Look at some UK forums, its common knowledge that its always been 7Nm + 90 + 90 on these engines.
 
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220629

Well-known member
...

But dont just take my word for it. Look at some UK forums, its common knowledge that its always been 7Nm + 90 + 90 on these engines.
Nothing personal. Your word is good. I've been reading your posts for quite some time and you have great credibility from my perspective. :thumbup:

It's just a bit of a leap from what has been published.

I now have 5 re-installed injectors done to the "torque + 90" in the book. Do I purchase new bolts and seals, remove and re-install them to the torque +90+90, or take a wait and see approach? I'm certain that I have time to decide, but it is a bit of a poser. :idunno:

vic
 

owner

Oz '03 316CDI LWB ex-Ambo Patient Transport
Yeah, it takes balls of steel to crank that extra 90 deg even when the WIS does say to. I haven't actually checked the WIS for my sprinter, only for my ML.
 

owner

Oz '03 316CDI LWB ex-Ambo Patient Transport
That would explain a repeat failure after replacement, but shouldn't all engines be assembled similarly at the factory regardless of their intended market/destination?
I somehow misread what you said here.

Its an interesting point. I would say there are so many variables involved in black death, a blanket "it will leak after x mileage" won't be applicable. In NAFTA land you do have EGR and crap fuel, which I suspect are both major contributors.

So those who do suffer from a factory virgin leak "early", are going to be more likely to also suffer repeat failures too, regardless of the factory torque being re-applied.

But the lack of the extra 90deg in NAFTA land is going to make you even more susceptible to black death once that factory seal is opened.
 

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