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K-9 SPRINTER
01-29-2013, 08:34 PM
I was about 1100 miles into a 1930 mile trip. I got a engine light on. I checked the owners manual, said I would be able to drive about 500 miles, then I would get a warning for 20 starts. I was in Crossville, Tennessee on I 40, it was 830am on Saturday. I was going to go back to Knoxville, but they were closed for sprinters on Saturdays, as just about all the dealerships I called. I called MB roadside assistance, and they said I could go to a freightliner dealership in Georgia. ?.. which was not even on my route , and a state away. But was was going to go, as I did not want to get stuck in the middle of nowhere. I called them , they were also closed on Saturday (Closed FOR SPRINTERS, OPEN FOR TRUCKS)
So I called Dave (the sprinter guy) for help from his sprinter Tec. They said , they weren't sure about 500 miles or the 20 starts. Most likely I would go into limp, but still be able to drive. Luckily the bad KARMA that I received from Amboman, in his post, turned into good Karma for me:tongue: cause I drove the rest of the trip over 800 miles, and over 20 starts , and got to MB of Georgetown on Sunday night, parked and went to sleep for the night.
Monday morning when they opened, they put me 1st thanks to Dave. They scanned my van and the service advisor said its gonna be $149 for a diagnostic and top offf the DEF, and its not warranty because I was low onDEF Fluid. I said although I may be low on DEF..... THATS NOT THE PROBLEM. I went back to speak to the sprinter tec JAMES, and he understood my thoughts on the engine light, he said I was probably right, and he would make sure I wasn't billed for it.
Anyhow the engine light did go off, then right back on. He rescanned it 3 times before he got a differant code. Turns out the DEF pump was bad, and the part would be in the next day.So I went to Sportsmobile for some work I wanted added and was gonna go back the next morning when MB got the part in.
The next morning sportsmobile was gonna pull my van into the shop, and they started it up ...... got a message 20 starts left. SO, I said , dont start work on my van , let me go back to Georgetown now, just incase its not the DEFpump. I called James and told him I'm on my way, he said he will be ready. He switched the pump , cleared the codes and looks like all is well:thumbup:
So besides them having a great salesmen, they also have a great sprinter mechanic:cheers:

johnshmit
01-31-2013, 11:21 PM
Second one. My pump went south at ~8000mi. I was able to diagnose pump and reset counter with generic (torque) scanner since my dealer was not as good.

flman
01-31-2013, 11:29 PM
Second one. My pump went south at ~8000mi. I was able to diagnose pump and reset counter with generic (torque) scanner since my dealer was not as good.

We need a tune to eliminate that garbage. :popcorn:

K-9 SPRINTER
02-03-2013, 10:12 PM
Made it home in time for the super bowl:cheers:
here are pictures of warning lights you NEVER WANT TO SEE ON YOU SPRINTER

the 1st is the check engine light, the 2nd is the countdown to no starts(not even limp LHM)

FUNNY THING IS .... I got my best gas mileage EVER, with the check engine light on:bash::idunno:

MBGUY
02-04-2013, 07:48 AM
Unfortunatly, the Adblue pumps dont seem to hold up very well. Not sure why, I know the fluid is nasty stuff. There is a high and low pressure threshold they need to reach (300hpa for the low side and 3500 on the high side). If it doesnt reach the high or doesnt release to the low pressure in the alloted time then it will set the light you are talking about. And this really isnt an easy do it yourself job, the adblue tank needs to be removed and the pump is bolted to the top of the tank. Really more awkward than anything. The pump includes the pressure sensor and reversing valve for emptying the line to the injectino valve). Anyway, thats more information than whats needed. Good Luck!

showkey
02-04-2013, 02:27 PM
Unfortunatly, the Adblue pumps dont seem to hold up very well. Not sure why, I know the fluid is nasty stuff. There is a high and low pressure threshold they need to reach (300hpa for the low side and 3500 on the high side). If it doesnt reach the high or doesnt release to the low pressure in the alloted time then it will set the light you are talking about. And this really isnt an easy do it yourself job, the adblue tank needs to be removed and the pump is bolted to the top of the tank. Really more awkward than anything. The pump includes the pressure sensor and reversing valve for emptying the line to the injectino valve). Anyway, thats more information than whats needed. Good Luck!

Not to mention a heater cause the stuff freezes........:idunno:......other manufactures were having heater problems then the pump fails (not that is matters part part fails) can be high maintenance (warranty) item.

K-9 SPRINTER
02-04-2013, 02:45 PM
Not to mention a heater cause the stuff freezes........:idunno:......other manufactures were having heater problems then the pump fails (not that is matters part part fails) can be high maintenance (warranty) item.

Maybe thats why my pump failed. It was COLD out, soooooo cold , that while driving the night before, my windshield fluid froze up, , the ambient temp sensor said it was 11○

Aqua Puttana
02-04-2013, 02:55 PM
Question.

Is there a heater for the tank and pump? Do they delay the AdBlue operation until the engine coolant heats the DEF system up? They must need to provide some response to the fact that it freezes. I guess it could be just a heater within the tank/pump to provide a melted little sump to get things going? vic

MBGUY
02-04-2013, 03:00 PM
Doesnt get that cold here, so I havent really come accross a failure due to freezing. The system is designed for cold weather as it does have 2 heaters in the system, one in the tank and on in the feed line. They fail even when it isnt cold.

sprintguy
02-04-2013, 09:12 PM
What has been happening , is that the temp of the DEF fluid is low or frozen but yet the SCRCM tries to actuate the pump before the heaters can de thaw the fluid ... mind you that there are 3 heaters in the system , Tank heater, injection line heater (whole line is charged) and the pump heater. Many have had issues with the SCRCM, throwing fault codes for the pump heater. which does go into the shut off mode. The problem was from a software issue wich has been adressed and changed , the update does fix this issue.

As for the pumps themselves , they are electric and yes as all parts that are subjected to severe climates and service they do fail.

And ..... I used to do a lot of pumps .. back in 2010 and early 2011 , but not so much any more , mostly software updates for both the SCRCM and the CDI module .

SCRCM = selective catalyst reduction module. ADBLUE module.
CDI, Common Direct injection module (engine controller)

Carl

jdcaples
02-04-2013, 10:46 PM
<snip>
And ..... I used to do a lot of pumps .. back in 2010 and early 2011 , but not so much any more , mostly software updates for both the SCRCM and the CDI module .

SCRCM = selective catalyst reduction module. ADBLUE module.
CDI, Common Direct injection module (engine controller)

Carl

Carl drivin' product improvement from the field!

Love it

-Jon

K-9 SPRINTER
02-04-2013, 10:52 PM
The problem was from a software issue wich has been adressed and changed , the update does fix this issue.


And ..... I used to do a lot of pumps .. back in 2010 and early 2011 , but not so much any more , mostly software updates for both the SCRCM and the CDI module .

SCRCM = selective catalyst reduction module. ADBLUE module.
CDI, Common Direct injection module (engine controller)

Carl
problem is,.... MB DONT NOTIFY their customers :thumbdown:that there is a needed software update.

James(the MB tec) did update ALL my software after the repair:thumbup:

showkey
02-04-2013, 11:31 PM
[B][COLOR=red]problem is MB DONT NOTIFY their customers :thumbdown:that there is a needed :


They save money that way..........:bash: :lol::dripsarcasm:

Aqua Puttana
02-05-2013, 12:37 PM
AdBlue....?

Apparently it is appropriately named because it has the ability to add to the blues of a Sprinter owner. As if LHM wasn't enough?

The world according to vic with the MIL (aka CEL, ECU) coming on. I have stated this before other places.

The MIL most always relates to emissions issues of the engine. As long as you are running smoothly and normally there is no reason to panic because the MIL is lit. Your Sprinter has Limp Home Mode LHM (aka Limp in Mode, Emergency Running) which will kick in if the computers see a major enough problem to reduce power and limit possible drivetrain damage.

Sailquik advocates the ScangaugeII or other performance monitoring units to help you drive your Sprinter. (I drive without one.) Another reason to have some sort of monitor is that being that the MIL is alsmost always related to emissions problems, the ScangaugeII will most likely give a code and some info of why the MIL is lit. You can then make a more informed decision about what action to take. Should you see a glow plug GP code then that action may very well be to ignore the problem until the end of your trip or until a convenient time. (Don't ignore glow plug problems forever with an NCV3 though because the GP's are used for regeneration.)

For what it's worth. vic

sprintguy
02-05-2013, 01:05 PM
problem is,.... MB DONT NOTIFY their customers :thumbdown:that there is a needed software update.

James(the MB tec) did update ALL my software after the repair:thumbup:

Just so you understand.. Software updates are not always a good thing, sometimes they change the way a vehicle acts and drives. Updates are by no means recalls , and your vehicle may not even need them .

Most of the time updates are either a service bulletin or a last defense against " The Ghost in the machine" . Or we are told to update by MBUSA tech line. These updates are never accompanied with what they are addressing, But I do know for sure it takes care of the heater issues , but most likely a whole lot more.

Carl

jdcaples
02-05-2013, 03:26 PM
<snip>
These updates are never accompanied with what they are addressing, But I do know for sure it takes care of the heater issues , but most likely a whole lot more.

Carl

Carl,

Can you cite a WIS document number or other MB reference?

Some service departments are more diligent than others. Owners that deal with the latter often need to school 'em.

Waving around an official document - accessible from NetStar or any other Dealership resource, a document that supports your postings - would be helpful.

When Sprinter owners know terms like WIS, NetStar and EPC, when they request a document be pulled up.... service advisers usually do. It's like a field promotion. Suddenly, you're their equal.

It's like we know their secrets or something and they stop pushing back..... unless the owner cites the wrong doc.... then owner might be demoted back to "just another hyper-imaginative customer demanding free stuff."


-Jon

brian_m
02-06-2013, 01:22 AM
This might explain everything. We went for a drive from Oregon to Nevada a few weeks ago and a lot of the driving southbound was at -5 to -7 degrees F, we did see -10 F for a while. Just north of Tonapah the check engine light came on so we stopped and called MB Roadside. Now, Tonapah is a bad place to be with a broken Sprinter! MB said to keep driving to LV if the performance was not effected but they thought the light might clear after a couple of starts. Sure enough, we filled up with diesel and after two starts the light cleared and did not come on again until a few days ago back in Oregon when it appeared during normal driving with half a tank of fuel. Once again the light went out when we filled the tank.

Today, the light came on with half a tank of fuel shortly after I left home and it stayed on. I have not tried refueling yet. I will try to get to the dealer tomorrow.

Interestingly the MB Roadside did not seem to be concerned about the cold operating conditions although I seem to remember there is a minimum operating temp. mentioned in the manual.

Edit - Sorry, 2011 NCV3

Any thoughts, did the low temperature cause a problem? :thinking:

sprintguy
02-07-2013, 02:52 PM
Sorry Jon : No documents talking about this and related updates , Yet.

Carl

Aqua Puttana
02-07-2013, 04:05 PM
...
Edit - Sorry, 2011 NCV3

Any thoughts, did the low temperature cause a problem? :thinking:
You had the MIL (aka CEL, ECU) dash indicator lit? If yes, then it is 99.99% certain that a scan by a MB dealership will reveal a Diagnositic Trouble Code DTC. That should help point to a direction.

Until you get a proper scan done all answers will be guesses because they will not have much data. vic

brian_m
02-08-2013, 02:06 AM
Thanks Vic.
I took the van into the dealer Wednesday and the scan showed that the DEF Fluid heater had failed. Where that is or what it does I have no idea. I got the impression it was around the DEF feed line. As I mentioned in the first post we were operating in the -5F range for 24 hours.

The light was on all the while the van was with the dealer but it went out again after two more starts. I am (purely) suspecting that the code will only appear when the heater needs to be turned on, otherwise what would the on-board computer look at to determine the heater had failed. Therefore, when conditions around the van got warmer the heater was not needed so the check engine light went out.

Dealer does not seem concerned about the problem and has given me the OK to drive for a few miles until they receive the new part.

johnshmit
02-08-2013, 02:18 AM
Third one

Aqua Puttana
02-08-2013, 02:44 PM
It's too bad that components aren't more out in the open like they once were. (Yep. I'm old. I remember.) For those owning AdBlue Sprinters in the very cold areas I'd suggest looking into extending a heater hose loop from something (maybe the EGR coolant line) to run along with the AdBlue lines. That way if your heater goes bad you would likely still be OK and not freeze. Of course that may not really help if the AdBlue system is locked out when a bad electric heater is detected.

AdBlue may have it's challenges in cold climates. vic

Thanks Vic.
I took the van into the dealer Wednesday and the scan showed that the DEF Fluid heater had failed. Where that is or what it does I have no idea. I got the impression it was around the DEF feed line. As I mentioned in the first post we were operating in the -5F range for 24 hours.

The light was on all the while the van was with the dealer but it went out again after two more starts. I am (purely) suspecting that the code will only appear when the heater needs to be turned on, otherwise what would the on-board computer look at to determine the heater had failed. Therefore, when conditions around the van got warmer the heater was not needed so the check engine light went out.

Dealer does not seem concerned about the problem and has given me the OK to drive for a few miles until they receive the new part.

jackjnsn
07-12-2013, 03:55 PM
I am new to the forum and have just purchased 2 - 2011 MB Sprinters with my delivery biz. This code issue was just diagnosed by MB service department that is 4 hours away.
The def heater sensor has gone out and needs to be replaced. So I have 2 questions:
1. Will this issue cause my vehicle to completely shut down (like running out of def fluid will)?
2. Does anyone have a source for this part, MB dealer wants $1000 for this sensor?

Thanks, Jack

sailquik
07-12-2013, 05:48 PM
jackjnsn,
How many miles are on the Sprinter with this problem?
Did you transfer the warranty when you bought them?
You could make a case for since it's the emissions 100K warranty,
it should not matter if you transferred it or not.
Roger

rponsonby
08-28-2014, 06:53 PM
jackjnsn, any updates ?

i now have the same problem,

i plan to try to get MB to cover this under the emissions warranty ?

lindenengineering
08-29-2014, 11:19 AM
I am new to the forum and have just purchased 2 - 2011 MB Sprinters with my delivery biz. This code issue was just diagnosed by MB service department that is 4 hours away.
The def heater sensor has gone out and needs to be replaced. So I have 2 questions:
1. Will this issue cause my vehicle to completely shut down (like running out of def fluid will)?
2. Does anyone have a source for this part, MB dealer wants $1000 for this sensor?

Thanks, Jack

Jack
The heater issue will not shut down the engine.
The heater problem is best resolved by replacing the whole tank for $1440 ish .
The unit is made by Bosch and the dealer is simply doing a complete replacement which is what I do when I have a customer with this problem.
I have not found cheap parts for this repair, essentially its a dealer captive part and I suspect there are other issues in that tank as well!
Due to the age & mileage of the van I sincerely doubt you will get it covered under a warranty although I did have a customer get it changed out FOC on a low mileage 2 year old unit.
Dennis