Oops all the internals fell out of my DPF

I'm seeing a lot of crap being posted on here and I'm trying to get to the bottom of a couple of simple questions from those (who are impartial) that have actually done it...

So lets just say the guts of my DPF blew clean out (this isn't for my van its for a friends 2009 315). So in that case would I get limp home or not?

If not, and in the absence of an ever constricting exhaust, I'd like to then run a good quality engine oil with proper levels of ZDDP (228.5 or 229.5). And I'd like to avoid diluting the sump and washing said oil off my cylinder bores whenever it does a regen as much as possible to prolong this small engines very stressful life.

I know there is a regen triggered off differential pressure, which I can hopefully avoid due to the gutting. But is there also a periodic regen that gets kicked off based on something else?

I know a DPF delete tune is the correct way to fix it, but that isn't an option for this van.

I don't know but I suspect there's a mileage variable in the regeneration equation.

Looking forward to any responses that you might get. I would expect that without the back pressure of the dpf guts and stock ECM programming, the sensors monitoring the pressure differential would put out values outside the expected range and therefore set a code but I look forward to hearing from someone that actually tried it. On my 2011, I also have two scr (selective catalytic reduction) "canisters" downstream of the dpf. I wonder how those would be effected by the absence of the dpf?

Has mixed reviews, apparently it works with out the tune, but no guarantees? https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22727&highlight=DPF+ebay

Ace in the hole said:

... I would expect that without the back pressure of the dpf guts and stock ECM programming, the sensors monitoring the pressure differential would put out values outside the expected range and therefore set a code but I look forward to hearing from someone that actually tried it.
...

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That's one possibility. Another way to look at it is that the most efficient DPF design would offer little resistance when clean and new. Maybe the monitor design is more worried about a differential increase?

My T1N exhaust broke off before the muffler. I did an emergency wire up, but didn't connect the pipe. For the time I drove it the computers didn't seem to notice. I know my T1N doesn't have a DPF, but maybe unrestricted exhaust pressure is not noticed as much as we think.

Some real world experience will be interesting to hear. vic

Again my point of view..

The regeneration process does not leave the cylinder dry .. remember you are running diesel fuel which by nature is a lubricant.

Why mess with the EPA .. how much gain is it?

Next I do have customers with over 300k miles on the vehicle with 1 new DPF at 300k mile mark.

Most times DPF's are replaced due to poor diagnostics.

Finally .. al this discussion of people removing emission components remind me of back in 07 when the Cummins engine received the "emissions treatments" and people were removing the DPF and blocking off the EGR system and re- tuning and running cold air intakes and blowing up there engines , transmissions , and other various drive train components. And Cummins said well sorry you messed with it ... no Warranty!!

I think the true problem here is the Americans glut for more power, and 1-3 MPG better fuel economy.. I say ... IF IT IS NOT BROKE >> DO NOT TOUCH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carl
P.S. How many of you guys (and ladies) would buy a 2500 Sprinter with a 4 cylinder dual stage turbo with a 7 speed auto ? When it gets here . And tell me why?

sprintguy-
I respect your view. I look at it not so much for the power gain as for the milage gain. That is what I am interested in. I am not one looking for the most power out of the motor as physically possible. I am after fuel economy. If it comes with a little more power as a side effect - great, but that's not my first interest.

You ask the question- how much gain is it? It could be considerable depending on just how much milage increase you get. I have read posts of 1-3 mpg and I've read 3-5 mpg or even more. It really depends on just how much you actually get. If you drive 20,000 miles in a years time and get say 18 mpg stock you use 1111 gallons of fuel. Same 20,000 miles at 21 mpg will only use 952 gallons of fuel. 159 gallons less fuel in a years time adds up to several hundred dollars a year saved not to mention the fact I just burned 159 gallons less fossil fuel that everyone says is adding to global warming.

it wont hurt anything to be removed, what will happen is your check engine light will stay on which is what you want,, as long as you have a cel on it will never regen. but i agree with the earlier if it is nor broke dont't fix it, only when you start having problems then do it

Biggie- will it also go into limp home mode limiting speed?

Its all very well when you've got a 3.0 V6 to spread the load, but this a 2.1l 4 cyl which is chucking out nearly the same torque. The main thing is that it needs all the help it can get, which means running a better oil than 228.51, which is 228.5.

Its the crankcase dilution that is also adding to this early death. What bevo sheet is raw diesel on I cant find it.

Anyway I digress. Is the CEL you speak of just used for regens, or is it the generic CEL like the EDC light on the T1Ns?

Oops an internet pissing contest

sprintguy said:

Again my point of view..
The regeneration process does not leave the cylinder dry .. remember you are running diesel fuel which by nature is a lubricant.
Why mess with the EPA .. how much gain is it?
Next I do have customers with over 300k miles on the vehicle with 1 new DPF at 300k mile mark.
Most times DPF's are replaced due to poor diagnostics.
Finally .. al this discussion of people removing emission components remind me of back in 07 when the Cummins engine received the "emissions treatments" and people were removing the DPF and blocking off the EGR system and re- tuning and running cold air intakes and blowing up there engines , transmissions , and other various drive train components. And Cummins said well sorry you messed with it ... no Warranty!!
I think the true problem here is the Americans glut for more power, and 1-3 MPG better fuel economy.. I say ... IF IT IS NOT BROKE >> DO NOT TOUCH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Carl
P.S. How many of you guys (and ladies) would buy a 2500 Sprinter with a 4 cylinder dual stage turbo with a 7 speed auto ? When it gets here . And tell me why?

Click to expand...

First Briggie, Sorry but yes it will enter regen and sometimes limp home mode with the cel light on.

Thanks Carl,
I removed my earlier post that answered the original question.
What would be your answer for the consumer who has had 2 egr valves replaced in the 1st year on his $60k vehicle and the problem keeps recurring?
When it is broke, and it keeps breaking then what?

Personally, I will drive my current 07 Sprinter for at least 10 years, however a dual stage turbo 4 with a 7 speed sound like either progress or job security.

Re: Oops an internet pissing contest

gary 32 said:

First Briggie, Sorry but yes it will enter regen and sometimes limp home mode with the cel light on.

Click to expand...

Ok well I know for sure (after their amateurish socpuppetry in the other threads) that Briggie is NOT an impartial source of info, since they are the seller of those simple DPF delete pipes on eBay.

So... where did you get your info from gary?

Some say if has a check engine light it wont regen. I believe this to be true, as when my glow plugs were acting up, it did not regen and when the GP's were replaced they had to do a manual regen. This might not be true for all codes. Its a simple fact the MB engine burns very clean without the emissions garbage. Also when any part of the emissions is acting up or not up to top performance the engine will actually burn more dirty than without any emissions. Less milage, more fuel per mile, less efficient burn and LHM's when any part of the emissions throws a code.

Pulling the DPF will increase milage 7-10% depending how you drive. Its even better if you clean your EGR system every 5k, and if your lucky enuff to have good fuel, then you could go 10k or a little more. Everytime I clean the EGR cooler I see big jumps in performance and milage. This winter blend fuel in Michigan is really bad for sooting up. I've blocked some of the radiator to keep temps higher, as there are days the coolant wont go over 170. Be careful with this, make strips or several pieces , don't block off 1 section. On long runs I pull it.

Gary, you have to know by now, all those types can do is cut and paste from their radical global warming bible. There is no changing their minds, even if you had the biggest, most accredited and documented factual proof in plain sight. Those with common sense will be able to weed thru the hype and scare tactics. Heck I can still wipe the inside of my tailpipe and its no different than before. Mother nature has her cycle and will always take care of mother Earth, she is more powerful than all mankind and proves it quite often. Had any shrimp from the gulf lately????? Way better than that asian farm raised junk.....

Mine would be first hand experience with 3 sprinters, and much more with other diesel trucks

I was one of those who bought an ebay 'pipe'...

...I destroyed my engine/exhaust to the tune of $11,300 in parts and labour... turns out that the ecu was stick in a mode that insisted on doing weird regen stuff/glowplug routine/timing/mixture... not only did I have fuel forcing its way into the engine/oil, but I had fuel pouring out of my tail pipe. Dealer rebuilt motor, new dpf, exhaust system & ecu... tough lesson, tough pill to swallow, just to save $200 a year.

Orion put your DPF back in your pants

OrioN said:

I was one of those who bought an ebay 'pipe'...

...I destroyed my engine/exhaust to the tune of $11,300 in parts and labour... turns out that the ecu was stick in a mode that insisted on doing weird regen stuff/glowplug routine/timing/mixture... not only did I have fuel forcing its way into the engine/oil, but I had fuel pouring out of my tail pipe. Dealer rebuilt motor, new dpf, exhaust system & ecu... tough lesson, tough pill to swallow, just to save $200 a year.

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Orion,
I am shocked by your blatant disregard for humanity. Please stop this dpf delete madness before you cause permanent harm to mother earth.

owner,
My info is from first hand experience over a 5 year period. If you would like to discuss this with forum members, pm dukepilot, ask to join his ecm tuner community.

OrioN said:

I was one of those who bought an ebay 'pipe'...

...I destroyed my engine/exhaust to the tune of $11,300 in parts and labour... turns out that the ecu was stick in a mode that insisted on doing weird regen stuff/glowplug routine/timing/mixture... not only did I have fuel forcing its way into the engine/oil, but I had fuel pouring out of my tail pipe. Dealer rebuilt motor, new dpf, exhaust system & ecu... tough lesson, tough pill to swallow, just to save $200 a year.

Click to expand...

Lying? Now you are boring, compliant, and lying.

Ace in the hole said:

Biggie- will it also go into limp home mode limiting speed?

Click to expand...

no limp mode

Re: Oops an internet pissing contest

gary 32 said:

First Briggie, Sorry but yes it will enter regen and sometimes limp home mode with the cel light on.

Thanks Carl,
I removed my earlier post that answered the original question.
What would be your answer for the consumer who has had 2 egr valves replaced in the 1st year on his $60k vehicle and the problem keeps recurring?
When it is broke, and it keeps breaking then what?

Personally, I will drive my current 07 Sprinter for at least 10 years, however a dual stage turbo 4 with a 7 speed sound like either progress or job security.

Click to expand...

i dont know where u get your info from, but the van will not do a regen as long as the cel is on.. if you think your are right which you are wrong, then unplug any sensor so it comes on and see for yourself that it will not regen,, and it will not cause a limp mode either, if it causes a limp mode then u have a hard code stored for something else

Ok I connected my star diag developer clone up to the van in question. I found an option in german to maybe disable the DPF completely. Obviously youd still need to physically remove it or gut it. But the potential delete via the factory ecu looks promising. Anyone here actually tried it?

BTW this van has only done 90k km and already the EGR wont pass the function test in Star. Once the DPF is history, EGR will be next in my sights.

Owner, yes it is possible and legal to have factory delete the dpf and egr. All manufacturers have, it's about 144 page document and you have to prove you have a life critical vehicle or a vehicle which cannot operate without serious failure, downtime or that it will not operate properly with said components. Examples of vehicles legally without EPA junk.....ambulances,fire rescue, well drilling truck rigs, armored, government special use and several other types along this line. Will you ever in any way qualify ....no. Never, unless you manufacture or use one of the approved vehicles. Can you ever find a way to do it with a $35,000 program tool from MB .....NO it takes more than that, and it has to be manufactured that way, can never be converted. You are just a useless tax paying citizen that has to obey the laws that they circumvent, or in no way will apply to them.

Briggie must not know what kind of forum this is.......as someone will post and document an LHM or regen with the cel. This is not a forum of just talkers........

My van regens all the time, but it does have that CS tune. That high quality gobment regulated 36 cetane fuel.