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View Full Version : How much "Black Death" is a deal breaker


Nuke
01-19-2013, 12:41 PM
Okay so hopefully going to look at one with 272k mi
When I pull the cover
At what point is Black Death a no sale?
If it is at differing stages how much would you take off of the $8900 asking price?
If it is in the early stages I'm not too sure if the price was right
to just go ahead and get it and then take care of the faulty injector myself
From what I've read, some are lucky, others not so lucky
Is Doctor A's fix shippable so someone else can do it?
Or is it strictly something he has to do at his shop?
I live in FL and soon in WA state so not too near Pitts PA

EZoilburner
01-19-2013, 12:44 PM
Having it done by a pro or someone who's done it before is better (easy to say I not too far) but AFAIK You can do it Yourself just rent the kit from europarts and read the threads describing it on the write up sub forum piece of cake.

Aqua Puttana
01-19-2013, 01:14 PM
I am not an expert, but I do have opinions.

The less the evidence of black death lava I would think helps to indicate less likelyhood of any aluminum seat surface erosion. Lots of lava means the hot gases have been escaping past the seal for a longer time.

Seal seat erosion or a broken hold down bolt are probably the biggest concerns. An injector being extremely stuck is a concern also, but usually works out if you take your time and don't get heavy handed. I speak from experience. The head injector aluminum injector cover is fragile as an eggshell. (Thank the Lord for JB Weld!! :cheers:)

Last comments that I recall are the Doktor A injector hold down bolt repair kit is not available other than with him doing the job. He uses special techniques to do it properly. You should speak directly to Doktor A though. Good luck. vic

Nuke
01-19-2013, 01:35 PM
Okay thanks AP I read your experience several times
so baring lava if it only looks like the starting of spittle
is not a deal breaker
so I forgot the price for an injector
but if I get it out I can reuse it right?
IF IT POPS by loosening the hold down bolt
and heating up the engine, sounds like an hour
and then some aggressive accelerating listening for some kind of change in idle

If I have to rent a puller how much is that?
and then I forgot how much is an injector?

SO what would be a reasonable knock off offer?
unless that is some sort of unwritten code not to discuss.

If the Doc is monitoring could you PM me some rates?

Aqua Puttana
01-19-2013, 02:15 PM
You can look up the injector puller rates on Europarts SD.

I got my 5 reconditioned injectors from Waynerodd. Check for prices on the internet.

Were I to do another injector change I would use the loose bolt pop method.

IF the injector comes out without needing to be disassembled for the puller then they can be reused. I recommend an injector leak off test before you do the job. That at least gives some indication of the injector status.

I don't feel comfortable offering negotiating amounts.

vic

Okay thanks AP I read your experience several times
so baring lava if it only looks like the starting of spittle
is not a deal breaker
so I forgot the price for an injector
but if I get it out I can reuse it right?
IF IT POPS by loosening the hold down bolt
and heating up the engine, sounds like an hour
and then some aggressive accelerating listening for some kind of change in idle

If I have to rent a puller how much is that?
and then I forgot how much is an injector?

SO what would be a reasonable knock off offer?
unless that is some sort of unwritten code not to discuss.

If the Doc is monitoring could you PM me some rates?

Nuke
01-19-2013, 03:06 PM
oh well just got off the phone with my brother :thumbdown:
guy wasn't there yet so we talked through a walk around
extensive body cancer all along the bottom fairing and roof drip edge
fist size cancer holes through side panels
frame rust
excessive diesel leak underneath engine
Tires were NOT new, wrong size and rating I think
Continental Vanco four season 195 70R 15 load range D 8 ply
interior needing replacement
I thought maybe I could have gotten away with leaving the passenger interior
but looks like a gut and redo, so no saving there.

Oh well, have a $9000 loan money setting in the bank

contemplating another one I saw asking 5495 now
been listed for a while as a mechanics special w/engine knock
Doc A suggested a plug and play engine but I don't know what that is or how much
I'm thinking if it's been listed for a long time maybe I could lowball em and spend the money on the engine and other things.

Maybe I might end up with something in my $$$ range
and then start on the interior mods

Need to see if I have a relative in the area :hmmm:

owner
01-20-2013, 05:18 AM
Seal seat erosion or a broken hold down bolt are probably the biggest concerns.
There is also injector face erosion. I did one last week and he leak was on top of the copper washer and had worn a groove into the injector mating face. Wasn't sure how/if it could be refaced, so had to put in a recon injector. So yeah, that is probably worst case, or maybe on par expense wise with a broken bolt extraction.

Aqua Puttana
01-20-2013, 12:52 PM
There is also injector face erosion. I did one last week and he leak was on top of the copper washer and had worn a groove into the injector mating face. Wasn't sure how/if it could be refaced, so had to put in a recon injector. So yeah, that is probably worst case, or maybe on par expense wise with a broken bolt extraction.
Good point. The aluminum seat face repair requires special tools and technique. A botched aluminum seat repair can ruin the head which, given potentially high repair costs, might make a high mileage older vehicle junk. Same could apply to the broken/stripped hold down bolt depending upon circumstances. I considered the injector proper a wear/replacement item. vic

owner
01-20-2013, 11:54 PM
I considered the injector proper a wear/replacement item. vic
In the US of A that is true, but here in Oz new injectors are $500 each.

Aqua Puttana
01-21-2013, 12:08 AM
In the US of A that is true, but here in Oz new injectors are $500 each.
OK. That is a consideration

I think that even at $500.00 if you need to replace an injector because it shows erosion at the seat face, you are 99.9% certain that will correct the problem. Given a high mileage vehicle/engine that I basically trusted, if I discovered a bad seat face on an injector I'd replace it for the price on the assumption that it would cure my problem. (High enough miles might warrant a used injector. :idunno:) I'd hope for one time fixed cost.

In my mind finding a badly eroded aluminum seat in the head or a broken injector bolt might be leading the way to literally thousands of dollars cost if the repairs go south.

No matter. The less lava, the better the prognosis. :cheers: vic

surlyoldbill
01-21-2013, 02:28 AM
I think Nuke was right in pulling the plug on that sale, too much work and too much in parts for $9k. At $2k it might be worth a gamble. You can get a decent high mileage van with no immediate issues for $10-12k.