Diesel fuel additives - Any Ideas???

BigBlueBus

Member
Does anyone here recommend :thumbup: or condone :thumbdown: the use of any additives in a new Sprinter?
I used some additives in my Ram Cummins pickup when it got to 20k miles as it felt sluggish and had a very poor idle. After a couple tankfuls with an injector cleaner formulated for diesels, it was back to it's original 500hp self. I've been using this additive every other tankful just to keep valves, injectors, etc...clean and it's been great.

Any recommendations out there for the Sprinter, since I know the 3.0L MB diesel is a whole different monster altogether than the loud, cast-iron, high torque cummins.
 

Sprinter

New member
I use RedLine almost since new and I like them all a lot.

I had RL-2, 85, Catalyst and now I am running on RL-3 wintereized with cetane booster, if I don't use now in winter, mileage gets terrible.

BTW talking about Your Cummins RAM, that's what I've been looking at recently, do You still have it? I hear all good things about Cummins 5.9L engine, both pre common rail and common rail. There are some RAMs with 6 speed manual transmission and 3.54 rear end that get well over 20 MPG! Just like new Sprinter..
 

BigBlueBus

Member
My Ram is a 2003, best vehicle I ever owned, besides the Sprinter, of course. This is my first Sprinter and it's a 2007, only vehicle I ever bought new (used are impossible to find, and since I wanted the wagon version). Anyway I took it for a test drive; 2 hours later I drove it home and surprised the sh__t out fo my wife! She loves it too!:thumbup:

Anyway, my Ram gets about 26MPG on the highway, it's a 2500, 4 door with an 8ft. bed. Only mod is a bullydog downloader which gives it about 140 more horses.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
HI Gang Additives Yes... Unofficially backed by dealers down under:thumbup: and sold for sedans.
Here is the proof 47 thousand kilometers in 2.1/2 years
Not one single warranty issue or recorded fault
One only oil change required at 38 thousand K's, one at 46 Ks , forgot to tighten oil cap so 90% was blown back from the timing chain:bash:
Red-line is the product recommended,
Summer spring and Autumn Red-line RL-2
Winter Red-line 85 Plus+
Oils used on the 2005 model Mobil Delvac MX and MX extra when I can get it, exceeds CI-4
Or Vanellus C6 GLOBAL
Both 15W-40 grade

07 models Vanellus C7 for DPF
and Mobil Delvac extra heavy duty 15W-40 for DPF
EGR valve has slight misting of carbon soot it wipes of with my finger no oil like residues
Air filter Hepa by Mercedes has slight carbon soot build up but still OK and not blocked, clean underneath the filter.
Fuel filter works perfect has covered 47 thou
Yes it was tested.
After extensive testings with this product using both..BP LSD fuel 15/ppm.... not the same as your...US ULSD.
to the introduction of ULSD 10/ppm in January 2006
I can not fault the performance of either oil BP Rated Fuel quality and with the use of additives Red-line specific
the end result is a massive savings in Dollars by zero downtime and excellent MPG this applies to both the )05 3.8 T GVM rated cargo van. and the 06 NCV3 5.0 T GVM rated Cargo van V6.
Richard
 
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mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
DC now don't advocate use of injector cleaner for their common rail engines because of its high petroleum content.

Different seals are used in their diesel and petrol engines which have different tolerances petroleum: diesel engine seals being less tolerant than petrol engine seals.

Simon
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
DC now don't advocate use of injector cleaner for their common rail engines because of its high petroleum content.

Different seals are used in their diesel and petrol engines which have different tolerances petroleum: diesel engine seals being less tolerant than petrol engine seals.

Simon
Simon that was up untill 2004
Most case scenarios were fuel related low quality or non recommended fuels even in your end of the pond especially in the UK with supermarket chains low price Diesel no Cetane added to compensate for lubricity or fatty acid buildup. If you put on your thinking cap it was about three or four months back when Diesel engines were blowing up right Left and center.
The product I recommend is for late Diesel engines from 2002 on-wards we have had it certified in Australia by the CSRIO as compliant it has what the company says it has in the products, It does neutralize water content in the fuel and contaminating products that could damage the engine or cause the engine to not perform to top end expectations.
US fuel is highly suspect even down under it's not 10/ppm in all states and winter grade fuels still use a Kero make up Mercedes States this fuel as non compliant if a refinery does not add a lubricant to compensate for lubricity loss, BP in the USA and Now Shell are only just beginning to place the lubricant enhancers into US fuels, the problem on the US side is it's aging pipelines, that send fuel in bulk not one but multiple types of fuels and oils through one line back up on hold via transmit cause the fuels to back log and intermix, not all US refinery's have the capability to reprocess fuels, prior to delivery to the pumps.
Service stations are old with non compliant tanks non filtration systems installed or maintained cracked tanks with mixed fuels and ground water seepage are common in many of the older stations, cross contamination between Gas and Diesel is a known method of storage at stations dependent on supply and demand and holding capacity.
One must remember that the US refinery's and pipelines date back to the 1920s many have never been modernized and or upgraded since 1974, with the exceptions to produce more gas, Diesel is not part of the US equation for fuel demand in the most part of fuel requirements..
MB in Canada sell it across the counter it's the same down here ask and it will be provided , or Yeah put it in , OK D.AG don't back the product because they don't make a quid out of it... most dealers down here are honest enough to admit it, after all they want their customers to come back , so stealer ships! would go bankrupt very quick our population is too small for dishonesty.
Best practice, fuel additives work if you use one that is workable for Sprinter engines many are not as suitable;e and may damage your engine. Red-line is available in the states , which is the only reason I suggested it we have a better product but it's not available in the US.
Richard
 

Sprinter

New member
My Ram is a 2003, best vehicle I ever owned, besides the Sprinter, of course.
Anyway, my Ram gets about 26MPG on the highway, it's a 2500, 4 door with an 8ft. bed. Only mod is a bullydog downloader which gives it about 140 more horses.

Sorry for being off topic again but this is beautifull mileage even for Sprinter. I drove one RAM and besides being loud it was fun! Great acceleration, only 9 sec to 100km/h and the key to this great mileage is obviously low RPM - 2000 @ 70MPH!
I am looking for 3.54 rear end with 6 speed manual, this is also great off road toy, and definately pre 2006 - no DPF!

So You have no problems with 2003, injestors or anything. I was told not to get 2003 because it was first year for common rail
 

contractor

New member
I've been doing a lot of research on fuel additives ... is it snake oil? This is the best research on the topic. Having been a engineer in the automotive business myself, I like the Design of Experiments performed and how the fuel batch was a constant for each test. The bottom line, most fuel additives DO NOT ADD LUBRICITY as claimed and the best choice is simple ... add a small amount of biodiesel to each tank to make B2 - B5 and that should do it. http://inchoate.harm.org/~halbritt/dodge/Diesel%20Fuel%20Additive%20V3.pdf
 

BigBlueBus

Member
Sorry for being off topic again but this is beautifull mileage even for Sprinter. I drove one RAM and besides being loud it was fun! Great acceleration, only 9 sec to 100km/h and the key to this great mileage is obviously low RPM - 2000 @ 70MPH!
I am looking for 3.54 rear end with 6 speed manual, this is also great off road toy, and definately pre 2006 - no DPF!

So You have no problems with 2003, injestors or anything. I was told not to get 2003 because it was first year for common rail
I've had no problems at all with my '03 and it's now just past 40k miles. As long as I let the preheater do it's thing before I crank it, it starts right up in subzero weather. I wish it had the heater booster that the Sprinter has.

In summertime, the air conditioning will freeze my b_lls off, I don't know why, it's just a Dodge compressor, it must be due to the added power that drives it.

You're right, it's very loud but it has a lot of power and a tankful will go over 600 miles, better than my piece of sh_t ford ranger. There is a simple mod which involves butchering the air box and removing the turbo silencer in the air intake; this makes the turbo whine quite loud in the cab, but it gives it about 30 more horses. Besides, I like the turbo noise when I accelerate, makes it sound like a semi, and people in front of you tend to switch lanes quickly.
It takes forever (10 miles or so) to warm up in winter, though; so I make sure to baby the engine until temp gauge is within normal range. When I tow my boat or car trailer, it will climb steep hills effortlessly.
If you are going to get a RAM with Cummins, I would most definitely recommend the Bullydog at least! Response is awesome. It can propel my 8000lb. beast faster than most stock mustang gt's. I have embarrased a few teenagers and their friends on occassion. :thumbup:
 

BigBlueBus

Member
I use RedLine almost since new and I like them all a lot.

I had RL-2, 85, Catalyst and now I am running on RL-3 wintereized with cetane booster, if I don't use now in winter, mileage gets terrible.

BTW talking about Your Cummins RAM, that's what I've been looking at recently, do You still have it? I hear all good things about Cummins 5.9L engine, both pre common rail and common rail. There are some RAMs with 6 speed manual transmission and 3.54 rear end that get well over 20 MPG! Just like new Sprinter..
Ok, I found RL-3 in my local store. How much should I add to my tank before fillup?

John
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
I've been doing a lot of research on fuel additives ... is it snake oil? This is the best research on the topic. Having been a engineer in the automotive business myself, I like the Design of Experiments performed and how the fuel batch was a constant for each test. The bottom line, most fuel additives DO NOT ADD LUBRICITY as claimed and the best choice is simple ... add a small amount of biodiesel to each tank to make B2 - B5 and that should do it. http://inchoate.harm.org/~halbritt/dodge/Diesel Fuel Additive V3.pdf
Contractor
Not a bad write up on the report, unfortunately it emits the values of one brand in particular Amsoil which one? and as to no alcohol , which was replaced with Hydro Carbons thus increasing the NOx factor.
No redline...Not backed by any university or academic authority of note.
It did validate the non additives in ULSD fuels but failed to state there is no Law or mandate that requires this in the USA nor did it mentions which company does put it in. Standard in Europe and Australia with 5/ppm and 10 pp/m fuels.

As for engine oil! Well we all know that US produced engine oil either just makes the grade or is manipulated to meet very old specifications as to compliance where Euro oils have higher and stricter compliance, they have to as to the engines that the vehicles require.
Note 15/ppm fuel ULSD or 500 pp/m in sulfur content, Please let me reinforce the regulations as to the specific fuel ULSD Ultra Low sulfur Fuel
The requirements state 300/ppm not to exceed 500 pp/m.
US ULSD fuel is marginal upon delivery it's still suspect. Mobil ,Chevron, independents still are not up to compliance and there is still Government exceptions on refineries to not have to met the requirements untill 2009 ...The problem is these refinery's still have not upgraded the infrastructures as of yet it takes three years to do it at a minimum cost of 3 to 5 hundred million per refinery, again most US refinery's Do not have the infrastructure to process Diesel Winter grade Fuel still has approx ratings of 18/ppm over 800 pp/m in sulfur content.

Oil Looks like Fushe oils MB backed and shared technology in partnership still exceeds all other oils
again the downside of US oils is the availability and the concept that Mobil 1 is the only oil to use.
Well Now I can have something to do in the new year:bow: and dam I 'll export it in, with both additives that do work, and oils that last.
PS Yes B5 is acceptable for The sprinter engine.
"WHY!" You guys are not about to see any improvement in Diesel fuels being produced in the USA untill there is a change Government. and some very brave politician stands his ground with those monopolizing fuel companies.

Richard
 

contractor

New member
Altered
Do you have some useful info about the pitfalls of diesel during the winter months? My fuel milage drops from 21 to 18 mpg at the beginning of December and continues at that level until springtime. I've been told that the fuel is refined differently to reduce the cloud point. The end result is a reduction in the btu's and hence worse performance. Any suggestions to offset this? Thanks.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Contractor
Diesel fuel in it's simplest terms is a thinned down fuel , the principal agent is a thinner refereed to as Kero , this acts as an anti gelling agent in a simple nut Shell , On older Diesels of yesterday it was not an issue, but it is with Newer technology engines on the OM 612 the fuel composite virtually ate the rubber o rings out simple test put a piece of old rubber in a bottle and pour Kero on it and leave it for a day or two and see how it expands and becomes distorted and extremely soft, add the contaminated fuel 'Diesel from the dealers pump! think of the holding tank it's in many cases non filtered,and or not maintained! it costs the operator about half a cent per liter to keep those filters in perfect condition, to filter the fuel that is delivered into your vehicles tank , add a little mix of water from ground seepage yes tanks are cracked and corroded especially at valve crossovers, it gets in old fuel cross mixing between tanks that use both Gas and Diesel depending on volume required, sesonal...not on your main stream truckers! "fuel stop", but say marginal towns, where Diesel is not the main fuel source.Gas, Oil, water, do not mix that well, so separation and gelling will occur, as a result of contaminated fuels.
From 1997 to last week we have tracked US fuels this is in another thread, , this month the Bush administration was offered over one trillion dollars on a low doc fixed interest bearing long term loan , from the European Union, to help finance US refineries and pipeline operators to upgrade what can only be described as antique infrastructure's, It won't happen with MR Bush He's in the back pocket of the farm and speculators folk who look after their own , next government.
Fuel Diesel is of a poor grade in the US there are many reasons as to which oil is used for Diesel and this also is dependent on imported Diesel from Singapore there are more than one grade of Diesleine type fuels.
Sprinters in the USA use water separators, ours don't have them, as it's not an issue.
We do have in three states a so called winter grade fuel not one but two the latter is called Alpine Winter fuel I'd say it's very similar to your Winter Diesel fuel 20% mix of a soluble thinner Kero.
Red-Line 85 Plus+ works for this fuel it has a higher Cetane booster along with a water purifier or separator ...I do not claim this is the beat of winter additives it has an extra compound added to it , this solvent is similar to Amsoil under a different chemical name but it has an identical reactor but the lubricity of the Fluid is much higher, and has longer lasting values than Amsoils as such, It also produces less carbon emissions as a result of an added Cetane boaster
Basically I used it for three weeks on a Winter Diesel fuel there was a strong cabin smell coming from the crankshaft breather pipe which of course entered the cabin..either it was cleaning up the sulfur content in the fuel or cleaning up excess carbon soot inside of the engine fuel filters fuel rails and mixing it up with the oil , the smell went, it could have been temperature related?

PS because of the added Kero the Cetane level drops so HP is not as high as you would expect from summer grade Diesel. Because I have used an additive from square one My MPG are spot on ... no variations 20 around coastal roads lots of gear changing , hill climbing and speed limits Urban around town includes Hi-Way 25 MPG long distance hi_way straight run from Hobart to Launceston 31.3 MPG.. normally loaded between 1.5 Tonne to the full limit of 3,5 T , there is almost no difference between a loaded or empty van, In 2/12 years not one single problem no warranty issues and only one oil change due for a major service in the New year. at 47K
The difference between your engine 5 cylinder not including the V6 as an example is that my engine is a four inline 313 CDI it has a slower take off not much but its slower the mid range RPM is higher and far more effective with turbo boost that the five cylinder including the fact it does 100 MPH flat out,:shhh:No Speed limiters OILS 15 W40 this goes against the mainstream of US folk who have a mind set Mobil is the oil to use, it's not that oil was meant for 1.5 to 2.8 T Sprinters sedans AND ONE TONNE UNITS , engine PRESET FOR SERVICE IS 40 THOUSAND ks NOT miles THAT'S 24 THOUSAND MILES, USING HEAVIER OILS THAT OPERATE AT HIGHER TEMPERATURES RETAIN A HIGHER LUBRICITY VALUE, WITH A FULL 500 HOURS OPERATING PERIOD PRIOR TO LUBRICITY VALUES STARTING TO DEGRADE,,, The use of an additive gives my van a balance of a cleaner fuel and cleaner filters the oil seems to like the little extra additive but I can not explain where the chemical reaction comes into play there is none or very little vanish build up in the engine, the EGR value is relatively clean no sticky oil like substance and the out side of the engine is almost perfect, very little carbon soot visible air cleaners are still in excellent condition and like new underneath at the bottom of the filter.
Which ever way you look at this that engine runs like clock work , so some thing is working ! either its the use of the Upper cylinder lubricant and or oil , fuel or all three combined, it's fault free.
I will be changing both upper cylinder lubricants next year and changing over to Fushe oils I have no complaint with red-line, there is better and its Australian because we use 10/ppm fuel I will be switching to a low ash oil as both the 5 cylinder and 4-inline had a PDF in the year 2005 -06 My thoughts are only Fushe has an oil that will work for my Sprinter down under that will continue to give the results I come to expect form a MB sprinter proper.
In closure the fuel quality issue will not go away! as fuel demand based on population increases over the next decade, There will be a national outcry on this as fuel costs impacts and the CPI increases on local produce such as staple food supply.
Ethanol based fuels are not the answer:professor: to less dependence on imported fuels,, Energy to produce grain stock fuels... will exceed the three energy savings, three fold in green house Gas emissions, as to the ultimate cost? it will be enormous towards the tax payers:thumbdown: as to subsidy's towards farmers who will produce the stock, for the so called cheap fuel of tomorrow, {some ones going to pay and pay big time for this, and a' hard, hard , rains a' going fall on your good folk, sooner than latter}
FORD and GM with exemption after exemption the EPA has no power and the DOT can't even work it out, next Government problem, Time for a change! "Migrate Down under" :rolleyes:
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Richard
 
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hkpierce

'02 140 Hi BlueBlk Pass
Contractor
Sprinters in the USA use water separators, ours don't have them, as it's not an issue.
Richard: does the fuel filter on the European and Aussie Sprinters lack the water drain valve? I think that is the only "water separator" that is on the US Sprinter engines.
 

BigBlueBus

Member
Richard (or anyone else that knows for sure):

So what is the best oil to use in our US Sprinters? My van has just over 2,000 miles and the oil seems already dirty! Is it supposed to be so dark so early in life? How often should I change the oil? What type of oil is in there now from the factory? Should I drain it, change the filter and fill it with something else?

John
 

hkpierce

'02 140 Hi BlueBlk Pass
Richard (or anyone else that knows for sure):
My van has just over 2,000 miles and the oil seems already dirty! Is it supposed to be so dark so early in life?
Yes, it is soot. This is absolutely normal. If you are concerned, then use a lab to test your oil like http://www.blackstone-labs.com. If you use them, make sure that they don't confuse the 612/647s data base with your V-6 engine.

Richard (or anyone else that knows for sure):
How often should I change the oil? What type of oil is in there now from the factory? Should I drain it, change the filter and fill it with something else?
Follow your instruction in your owner's manual. There are many other threads on motor oil at this forum and on YahooSprinterVan.
 

contractor

New member
Altered:

Thanks for the thorough response to my question.
First, I did look into the Red-Line product and so I shall try it to see if it can offset the lower mileage ...
Second, I use the Mobil1 0w-40 that does meet the MB spec. I was not aware that the life is affected with the lower viscosity. Here's my question: The dealer and the manual recommend oil changes at 10K miles. I spoke to one guy who owns a diesel, not a sprinter, who changes the oil every 10K but his filter every 5K ... another Sprinter owner changes his oil and filter at 5K and sleeps better at nights:snore:.

How often do you change your oil and filter? Thanks.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Richard: does the fuel filter on the European and Aussie Sprinters lack the water drain valve? I think that is the only "water separator" that is on the US Sprinter engines.
Put it this way! I can't find one, and neither can the mechanic...for the 4-inline. But it makes sense, we do not have severe winter conditions as you do , depending on which part of the US you live in. Tasmania has what you would call a temperate climate.. at the moment its 71 f with a 53% humidity , how perfect can it get. Somewhere back in time, I think it was an option?
HK... Engines vary in each country,by design.. If for example you imported a 5 cylinder engine from Australia for a US Sprinter, I think you would be surprised as to the variants of the slight variations between the years, especially the new V6.HP ratings for each engine has three power sets. as an example the fuel bar for the V6 has 1200 1600 and 2000 pi.
HK I'm not a mechanic,so can you show me where the water tap may be,:idunno: both the 4 and 5 cylinder engines are very simular.
Richard
 

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