wheel stud / lug nut stripped?

RICKOLA

Member
did a brake job on my 2008 3500 sprinter last week. 24,000 miles and the rear were 90% worn and front were 50%. roughly 9500# gvw all the time.

problem came when i went to torque the rear lugs. set to 140# and 1 lug tightened but wouldn't torque. so i attempted to remove it and all it did was spin:drool:

seems like the nut is stripped and so is the stud?

how would you remove this lug nut?

is the stud a bolt or a true stud on the 3500? the reason i ask is because while i was at the dealer today with my glow plug issue, i went to the parts counter to buy a new lug nut and stud. 20 minutes later looking up the part on the computer with the counter parts guy, neither was a stocked item. amazing that this dealer has well over 30 service bays and not 1 lug nut in stock:thinking:

no problem the mercedes sprinter dealer is right next door. believe it or not, another stumped parts guy and 20 minutes later they found the part # and located 1 lug nut. that was all that's in stock. 1 lug nut total. the stud was not in stock, but appears as a bolt from the computer blow up this is the mercedes part # 461 401 00 71 is that correct?

can i just hammer it out or do i need to pull the hub? is it stripped or just rotating and need to apply some pressure?

any suggestions?

thanks,

rick.
 

sailquik

Well-known member
rickola,
Were you able to remove the stripped nut?
The studs are pressed in from the back (a guess) but the studs are
much stronger material than the nuts (you have the nuts with the extended
washer right?) so I would suspect that the nut stripped.
Ever had your wheels rotated or tires changed by someone with an impact gun.
Truck tire places are the worst at this, as they have their impact guns set for
some ridiculous torque for the 8 and 12 lug wheels on big over the road trucks
ad dump trucks.
Chances are, if the nut stripped, someone used an air impact wrench on it at
some point and simply overtorqued it.
Check your hub and see if it looks like the stud can be replaced without removing
the hub from the rear axle housing.
If there's enough room, take the old nut and screw it on until it's flush with the
end of the stud.
Then try a big hammer on the end to drive the stud back out of the hub.
Removing the hub and using a press would be far safer and better.
Hope this helps,
Roger
 

RICKOLA

Member
i'm not sure if it's a true stud/ threaded on both ends. or a spline bolt as the sprinter blow up looks like. i would have to either cut off the nut with a dremel, or try to wire weld another nut onto the back of the stripped one to try to unscrew with the 4 threads still protuding through the old nut. for now i installed a second 14 mm x 1.5 nut onto the 4 threads to keep it tight.

i might pull off the other side dual wheels to get a good look.

like i said, i tried to torque the wheels after the brake job and it just spun at 130-140 foot lbs. not sure why.

between the 1 mercedes and 1 dodge sprinter dealers, thay had a total of 1 lug nut and no wheel bolt/ stud in stock. amazing.

rick.
 

RICKOLA

Member
finally had some time to address the stripped wheel stud. it's pressed into the flange and is pretty easy to remove once you remove the bolts holding the wheel flange in place.

problem is i can't find the stud. it's a 14mm x 80mm x 1.5 thread and the 2 deales i went to are useless. anyone have a part number or contact. in the mean time i am using a 14mm bolt with a ground down head to lock it into the flange.

lug nuts are easy to find online, but the stud for a 2008 3500 drw is not.

rick.
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
finally had some time to address the stripped wheel stud. it's pressed into the flange and is pretty easy to remove once you remove the bolts holding the wheel flange in place.

problem is i can't find the stud. it's a 14mm x 80mm x 1.5 thread and the 2 deales i went to are useless. anyone have a part number or contact. in the mean time i am using a 14mm bolt with a ground down head to lock it into the flange.

lug nuts are easy to find online, but the stud for a 2008 3500 drw is not.

rick.
Rick,

Please name the useless two dealerships. The forum needs to know.

As for the stud, I think it's A3199900005.

You may be able to verify the part number A3199900005 at www.sprinterparts.com using your VIN.

If that's right, you can buy it from anyone that stocks A3199900005.

Or you can call an MB or Freightliner dealership.

http://starparts.chrysler.com/home/MBChry.PDF says the Dodge part number is: 5134714AA

I've attached the http://epc.startekinfo.com (MB's electronic parts catalog) info, pictures and part numbers listed.

-Jon
 

Attachments

RICKOLA

Member
thank you jon.

finally a real parts break down.

it's item # 83 in your pdf. a-461 401 00 71

i'll see if i can order it online.

as far as the 2 dealers both a dodge sprinter dealer and next door a mercedes sprinter dealer, neither one of them had a clue looking up the proper assembly on the computer. not to mention between the 2 of them a total of 1 lug nut.

thanks, again for the research.

rick.
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
For whatever reason, the people you spoke with didn't put in any effort.

It took me 10 minutes to figure this out. The only time I've "worked" in the automotive industry was between age 9 and 18 - in my dad's front-end/alignment & brake shop - making mistake after mistake after mistake; my father and his two partners patiently repaired the damage I made. That no car owners lost their lives in an accident caused by my inability to turn a wrench is a miracle.

I hope you find the right part, at a good price, and can get on with your life.

-Jon
 

RICKOLA

Member
after countless phone calls and internet searches, i finally decided to modify a stock 14mm wheel bolt that was splined, but had excess meat and long enough threads.

the best i could find was a dealer in atlanta that wanted $13.00 for the bolt and $22.00 for shipping ups ground:thumbdown:

so i went to pep boys for $2.49 and then took it to my buddies machine shop. in a matter of minutes i have a better than factory bolt.

what we determined was the factory bolt was not properly heat treated based on a file test. no need to break out the rockwell hardness tester when a file easily scored a 10.9 heat treated bolt. hard to imagine that 140 foot pounds would strip a 14mm bolt and lug nut. but if it's soft, it will.

amazing that others haven't had this issue and the bolt is almost impossible to find at the dealers.

rick.

i had to cut the old bolt off approx 1/4'' as it mushroomed as i hammered it out. total length is approx 80mm. no impact wrench. just a torque wrench was used to tighten the bolts.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

220629

Well-known member
Did they use a grinding attachment with lathe to remove the spline or something simpler like a flat mill file with the lathe? The reason I ask is that in a pinch someone might use a drill press and file for the splines and carefully cut the flat on the head with a bench grinder.

The part number of the Pep Boys stud might help someone in the future. It should be on your receipt.

Great information. Thanks. vic

Edit: From the reply. Pep Boys part # is 98561.1
 
Last edited:

sailquik

Well-known member
If it were my Sprinter 3500, I'd be ordering the correct wheel stud from my local Mercedes Sprinter dealer.
A stud from Pep Boys might be OK...having the correct strength and hardness characteristics...
and then again, maybe not.
The "file test" proved nothing....most good hand files are around Rc 58-60 (almost as hard as Rc 60-60 tool steel used to cut steel on a lathe or milling machine).
High strength alloy steel studs would normally be in the Rc 42-48 range....toughened to very high strength without becoming hard and brittle.
The stud in the photo did not "strip".
The failure mode was "cross threading".
The nut was cross threaded and driven onto the stud probably several times.
Are you sure that no one ever used an air impact wrench to tighten the lug nuts
when rotating your tires?
Roger
 
Last edited:

RICKOLA

Member
you really need a lathe. he used a carbide insert at low speed to take approx. .010 off at a time. just a couple passes and the bolts splines were minimized. needed to get down to .552 od. and a couple more passes at .020 were easily cut into the hardened bolt. then faced the inside shoulder to square it up. along with the heads od to clean it up a little.

final od is approx. .001 smaller to allow for some grease as the old one was not greased.

the notched head is the only critical portion that locks the bolt in from turning was done on a 20'' disc sander with water cooling. held securely with a "v" block. ,
a mill would have also worked but for 1 bolt, just the setup would have taken longer than this non precision measurement.


the key was using a collet to chuck up the threads and not a 3 jaw chuck that would have smashed the threads.

the pep boys part # is 98561.1 not sure of it's original vehicle application. just looked through 6 pull out drawers to find a bolt with the proper characteristics.

i originally was going to use a hardened metric bolt. problem was the sprinter measured 14.02 mm and the metric bolt i bought ,measured 13.88mm. a little undersized/ loose. but for a person in a bind, without access to anything more than a sander or grinder. it will work. all that needs done is a flat across 1 side of the hex head. there is plenty of room for the rest of the hex head that's pushed in from the back of the flange.

if i get some time today to swap out the bolt and mount my new wheels, i'll take some photos of the steps involved to swap the bolt on a 2008, 3500 rear dual wheel.

rick.
 

RICKOLA

Member
If it were my Sprinter 3500, I'd be ordering the correct wheel stud from my local Mercedes Sprinter dealer.
A stud from Pep Boys might be OK...having the correct strength and hardness characteristics...
and then again, maybe not.
The "file test" proved nothing....most good hand files are around Rc 58-60 (almost as hard as Rc 60-60 tool steel used to cut steel on a lathe or milling machine).
High strength alloy steel studs would normally be in the Rc 42-48 range....toughened to very high strength without becoming hard and brittle.
The stud in the photo did not "strip".
The failure mode was "cross threading".

The nut was cross threaded and driven onto the stud probably several times.
Are you sure that no one ever used an air impact wrench to tighten the lug nuts
when rotating your tires?
Roger
impossible.i was the only one to ever take off the wheels. the first leading 10 threads were perfect and i even used a standard metric nut to help secure the stripped nut while waiting for a fix. the only reason it looks real buggered at this point is that i needed the speed of an impact while pulling on the loose wheel to allow me to power off the spinning nut. it was that or using a die grinder to cut the nut off the stud to remove the wheel.

granted the file test is not precision, but when comparing a hard bolt to a soft bolt side by side, it's very simple to see and feel what one was harder than the other one. this particular sprinter bolt was soft compared to a matched 10.9 hardened bolt. the sprinter bolt was also marked 10.9

i can bring it back to my buddies shop and put the bolt on his rockwell tester.

it's either the bolt is soft, the lug nut soft, or my torque wrench stopped working on this 1 stud out of 24.

what's more frustrating is the lack of inventory at every dodge and mercedes dealer i contacted. the lack of anyone knowing how to look up the part. the only reason i have a good part # is because of the pdf that was supplied on the forum.

rick.
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
I'm with Rick on this.... I think the part was defective.

I don't think they fail that often though and I think the replacement engineering is probably durable enough for the task.

http://starparts.chrysler.com/home/MBChry.pdf says that

MB Part: A4614010071 is Dodge part: 68026054AA

Both these parts are have an MSRP of $13 - $16 plus change.

While many things are on the shelves, some things just aren't at the dealerships or at the supply depots.... I've had to wait for things from Germany.

That's not acceptable...

I understand that it's not economically viable to stock all the replacement parts for a dozen Sprinter variants with 10,000 possible factory options; but there's no reason to not stock fasteners, clamps and fuses, period.

To not have fasteners, clamps and fuses on hand or within a few hours' delivery time anywhere on this continent is just short sighted and incompetent.

-Jon

PS: and while I'm ranting, it's unforgiveable that a haughty manufacturer all but demands we see dealership for all wrenching; tells us their engineering obviates all our life experiences with vehicles; that locks us into fluids we have to hunt for like neaderthals seeking fruit salad; to explain in the owners manual that the dealership is your one stop shop for the duration of your ownership experience, and then not have fastners, clamps and fuses on hand? That's like taxing my tea.... or coffee. If I didn't like the van so much, if it wasn't perfect for what I need, it might have ended up in the harbor.
 
Last edited:

talkinghorse43

Well-known member
I bet parts, fluids, etc. would be a lot easier to source if we were in Germany - for example, BeVo lists a lot of approved fluids available there. Since we wanted the quality & durability available there (for a palatable price here), we have to suffer a little.
 
Last edited:

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
The Sprinter's virtues aren't lost on me.

Sometimes we consumers, we owner-operators, even the licensed and ostensibly beloved-by-Daimler dealerships have to fight the manufacturer for supplies and information.

I think we all expect a bit of that.

Unfortunately, Daimler over-delivers on the expectation that we'll have to endure an occasional lack of consumables and - depending on the topic - a shortage of really good, actionable, technical information.

Looking back, it's better than it was in 2007. On all fronts, improvement honestly continues... but the trajectory of improvement is nothing close to steep. At least in the US I can get the same info dealerships get regarding parts and service; and we in the US can help out our neighbors to the north over forums and email.

-Jon
 

RICKOLA

Member
pretty simple task, especially with machining the stud .001 under the factory size. a little grease and it went in like a charm.

i took photos, and can post them if anyone is interested. but honestly it's basically the same procedure to remove the rear rotor, minus taking off the caliper.

i also installed my new factory wheels and tires. nice and shiny:thumbup:

looking closer at the studs on the passenger side, they all look stretched. the drivers side looked good. i torqued all the bolts in 3 stages. 100#, 115# and 130#. book calls for 133# on the nuts with steel wheels.

in all honestly a standard 14mm x 150 x 80mm long, grade 10.9 with a little grind to the hex to form a flat would easily work in a pinch and will perform as good as the $13 factory bolt that can't be found. no need for a fancy lathe to turn down a wheel bolt.

pictures on request.

rick.
 

220629

Well-known member
In researching the Dorman turbo resonator I found a wheel stud listed under Sprinter. It looks similar to your pictures. They also list a Sprinter lug nut.

stud610-534-B-001.jpg

One interesting thing is that it gave me the thumbs up :thumbup: Checked OK when I checked the fit to my 2004 2500. I found that amusing as I have wheel bolts on all four wheels. :thinking:

http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-530...T%3A%204&parttypeid=990&parttype=Wheel%20Stud

Stud = Direct Cross - Dodge OE#: 5103938AA

http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-5301-610-534.aspx

Nut = Direct Cross - Dodge OE#: 5104651AA

http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-28563-611-295.aspx

A search using "Sprinter" on the home page got me a long list of parts (4 pages) that Dorman supplies. Just be careful that the part is really for your model year after my thumbs up OK misfire. The last pages appeared to be less and less Sprinter related. So FWIW. vic

http://www.dormanproducts.com/gsearch.aspx?type=keyword&q=sprinter

http://www.dormanproducts.com
 
Last edited:

RICKOLA

Member
thanks. i had already looked at doorman and the bolts are similar, but not long enough for the rear duals. need approx 80mm length. 75 will still work. bot those are in the 50mm range.

the lug nut looks right. 14 mm x 1.50 thread.

rick.
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
thanks. i had already looked at doorman and the bolts are similar, but not long enough for the rear duals. need approx 80mm length. 75 will still work. bot those are in the 50mm range.

the lug nut looks right. 14 mm x 1.50 thread.

rick.
I think it's really cool that you and a friend were able to fabricate your own. Power to the people, man. Own the Sprinter. Don't let it own you. Yadda*3.

-Jon
 

Top Bottom