Orton DIY - Electrical from Distribution

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Attached is a PDF of the electrical drawing.

I had several objectives for the electrical system.

1. Always charge house battery with a 3 stage (bulk,absorb,float) charger.
2. Keep house electrical completely separate from Sprinter electrical.
3. Keep electrical wiring accessible for future changes/additions.
4. Minimize controls.
5. Control the amount of amperage that can be drawn from the alternator.
6. Have 3 methods (solar,shore,120 volt from Sprinter)of charging house battery.

The system design is different. Most people connect their house battery to their vehicle battery for charging by the alternator. Batteries of different size,type and age should not be connected together if you want maximum battery life. The system consists of a 1000 watt Magnum MSS inverter/charger/transfer switch, a 600 watt Xantrex inverter powered by the Sprinter 12 volt system,a 135 watt Kyocera solar panel with Morningstar MPPT controller, a Blue Sea 9009 selector switch to select shore power or Xantrex 120 volt power and a IDP40 distribution panel. The house battery is a 8D 255 amp-hr AGM Lifeline.

The IDP 40 distribution panel is located close to floor in the center of the van to keep wiring as short as possible. Added a terminal block for positive wiring connections at panel. The IDP has 4 AC breakers and 12 DC fuses.

All wiring is done with flexible rubber covered "SO" cords. Most of the wiring is outside the walls for access. Only used blue plastic conduit in two places(solar panel wire and up right rear in wall). Used 14/3 for 120 volt power and 12/2,14/2 and 16/2 for 12 volt power. Rubber cords are very easy to run. Wiring is in the 1 1/2" thick floor, behind the rear seat backs, up the left side of van and in a 1 1/2" sq. Panduit wireway that replaced the Sprinter wireway at top of left wall.

The "house" DC wiring is not grounded to the Sprinter chassis. It is a separate system that the Sprinter does not know exists. Positive and negative DC wires are run to every load and terminate at the IDP panel. The 120 volt power is grounded to the chassis. There are only 3 DC switches (water pump, radiator fan/water heating pump/hot water tank pump). All ceiling lights (10) are LED with a switch. The Magnum MSS inverter has a remote meter (ME-RC50) that I set to display the state of charge (SOC) and pushbuttons to start the Magnum inverter and charger. There are five 12 volt distribution blocks (5 terminals). Blocks are located in overhead cabinets,at right rear under the seat, in "vehicle" inverter box at passenger seat.

Results:

The system works very well. The solar panel usually keeps the house battery charged without using shore power or 120 volt power from the Xantrex inverter. The panel output about matches the power requirements for the 80 liter compressor refrigerator. I have only used the backup Xantrax 120 volt power on two occasions when days were without sunshine. Overnight the refrigerator reduces state of charge down to 92% and the solar panel has it back up to 99% by late afternoon. I do not have any other major power requirements. No audio/visual. I turn on the Magnum inverter when I want 120 volt power and turn on the Magnum charger when I need to charge with shore power or the Xantrex. Usually both are off. I do use a 600 watt microwave powered by the 1000 watt Magnum.

Mistakes:

1. Xantrex should have been 1000 watts so I could use full charging amp that the Magnum allows. The Xantrex tripped until I reduced charging amps. The Magnum can charge at 50 amps. I had to set charging at 60% or 30 amps to prevent Xantrex from tripping.

2. Would like to have about 200 watts of solar panels. The existing 135 watt just matches the refrigerator power needs on full sunshine days. Be nice to have some extra power for semi-sunny days.

3. Would not use the IDP distribution panel again. It is difficult to wire on the AC side and the DC side does not have terminals. Also if the AC wiring was not in the same location as the DC wiring, the "rats nest" of wires would be less. I would use a Blue Sea 5026 DC distribution panel and a 1116 AC circuit breaker panel next time.

4. Would change the location of the panels. Existing panel is located in center of van to minimize wiring lengths which is correct. It is located just above the floor which makes it hard to wire. Next time I would locate the two panels halfway up the wall behind the refrigerator.
 

Attachments

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
Dave,

A couple of question regarding your system. Can you use Magnum Remote Meter ME-ARC50 to monitor charging with solar panels when there is no shore power? I noticed you installed the Magnum Battery Monitor with the shunt.

How do you shut down solar system when on shore power? I did not find an on/off switch for the solar system. On my previous installation I used a resettable breaker on battery line from Morningstar MPPT 15 to turn the solar power off during shore power charge.

George.
 
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d_bertko

Active member
Dave,

Love the self-criticism. Probably the most valuable thing to contribute to the forum. Prototypers typically do not come up with the least-cost solution since overkill is the easiest way to plan for unknowns.

I raised an eyebrow at your wanting to enlarge the solar contribution since you are meeting most of your needs already. My solarless DIY has around the same daily demand as yours and differs mostly in a bank size of 420ah vs your 255ah + solar. Perhaps you are much more immobile than our camping style where four days of no-alternator-use is not much of a constraint.

My design mistake was to buy a Honda eu2000i genset before I tried a year of camping. It was my "overkill" to displace a solar solution since I'm mostly a cloudy, northern, shaded site camper. Just don't need the genset since the van is more efficient than I expected. All those visions of adding an air conditioner or running a daily toaster oven or hairdryer proved unimportant.

Dan
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
I probably could use the ME-50 to monitor the solar controller output since I have wired the output so the Magnum shunt is still in the circuit. I do not care what the 135 watt panel is producing. I just set the ME-50 to read "state of charge" (SOC). When SOC gets down to 70% I know I need to start the vehicle inverter powered by the Sprinter 12 volt system or connect to shore power.

I do not shut down the solar panel when charging with 120 volt power. That is probably a good idea since the solar panel output may confuse the house Magnum charger. It would be best to just read the battery voltage instead of a combination of battery voltage and solar output. Does not seem to be a problem but isolating the solar output would be better.

The size of my system works very well for my application. The solar panel provides enough power to run the refrigerator which is my major load. I do not have any audio/visual other than charging computers and phone. The refrigerator installation has 1 1/2" of rigid foam on 4 sides and I have a floor hole to bring air flow past the coil and out the roof vent. I have learned that the temperature setting is very important in reducing power usage. I also have learned that using a 12 volt heating pad at night instead of keeping the van warm also helps.

There are two changes that I would make if I build another conversion. I would increase the size of the solar panel from 135 watts to 185 watts. The single 185 watt panel still would not be able to be seen from the street to maintain the stealth feature. The larger panel would just extend the time before I needed to use the backup 120 volt charger. The second change would increase the size of the vehicle inverter powered by the Sprinter 12 volt system. The existing 600 watt inverter size only allows 30 amps to be available for the house Magnum inverter/charger/transfer switch. The Magnum maximum charge rate is 50 amps which I could get from a 1000 watt vehicle inverter.
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
............................
I do not shut down the solar panel when charging with 120 volt power. That is probably a good idea since the solar panel output may confuse the house Magnum charger. It would be best to just read the battery voltage instead of a combination of battery voltage and solar output. Does not seem to be a problem but isolating the solar output would be better................
I appreciate your great work and sharing it with us. Based on my own experience the value for this forum is great.

I just did some researching which inverter, which solar controller and concluded to mostly follow your design. I could go with Rogue Controller and remote in lieu of Morningstar in case if I decide to exceed 200W of solar panels.

I just received the comment from Rogue folks about keeping solar and shore charging on in the same time - "Often is it not necessary to disconnect the charge controller while using other charging sources -- they will usually coexist. A circuit breaker as you've been using between battery and controller is the suggested way of doing it, though, if you want that ability (it's always a good idea to have one installed anyway)"

George.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Dan: The value of this forum is the information we all post. We can pick and chose what applies to our needs. What is best for my application may be wrong for yours. We all learn and it is better to pass on that information for others. I appreciate what was posted before I started the conversion. That information was invaluable for my education on the subject. In return I feel obligated to post what I have learned. Fortunately the information allowed me to design my conversion so I have had to make very few changes.

There is very little cost difference between a 135 watt panel and a 185 watt panel so the 185 would just extend the time before I would need to charge with 120 volt power. It is important to me to maintain the stealth look of the Sprinter. One 185 watt panel could still be installed so it can not be seen from the street. I regularly "camp" on city streets. Nothing shows on the outside. Shore power cord is on a reel under van so cannot be seen, no propane so not vents, fresh water fill is accessed by opening the sliding door, no tire of bikes hanging off the back, no graphics, no aftermarket windows, no visible drains, etc.

I do get a kick out of your comment about a toaster. My wife thinks I am crazy because I have spent hours on the internet trying to find a single slice toaster. No luck. It is hard for me to believe they do not exist. The lower power requirements of a single slice toaster would work better for me. So I will make my own. Buy a two slice toaster, use the two outside elements and add a hinge to the bottom to access the toast.
 

d_bertko

Active member
I, too, confess to having a certain lust for toast in the morning.

We did the overkill thing for the stickhouse and bought the expensive smaller 4-slice Breville toaster oven. I must have had the van in the back of my mind. A wonderful small oven but I haven't convinced myself to bring it on a trip. Maybe when the price of a 500w solar system drops below the toaster oven cost...

I do grill bread or buns on the griddle when I need a toast fix.

But you got me thinking about wattage and I looked up George Foreman grills and saw that the cheapo Champ model uses only 760w. $19 at Target:http://www.target.com/p/george-foreman-champ-grill-black-36/-/A-12833820

And you're absolutely right about the amazing range of uses we put our Sprinters to.

Dan
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
I will probably be at the Sprinterfest at the Sprinter store if you want to look at the hardware in person. Thanks for the comment. Getting it down on paper helped me understand.
 

2006Roadtrek

Trying to spend my kids i
I am curious if anyone has connected 2 of the auto transfer switches in series.
We currently have a 5000 automatic transfer relay in our RV. There is a shore power and a manual controlled generator connected.
We are adding a 3500 watt inverter with 200 amps lifepo4 to our system to run the microwave at night when we cannot use the generator.
Is it possible to connect two of these in series?
I would like to remove the generator from the primary transfer relay and then put the output from a newly purchased auto relay into the generator slot and have the solar/battery system be the primary backup input and the generator the last used option.
Any thoughts
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
I use a 600 watt Proctor-Silex (K-Mart $50) for the microwave. Draws 1140 watts. Works with a 1000 watt Magnum MMS1012 inverter. Only run the inverter when I need 120 volt power. Overnight if left on without any loads inverter uses 7% of my 255 amp-hr battery capacity.

The P-S microwave has the advantage of no clock or pushbuttons. Simple old fashioned two mechanical rotary dials. One for temp setting and one for time. No power consumed when off.

Sounds like you are building an electrical power station for a very large microwave. Do you really need that big a microwave for traveling?
 

220629

Well-known member
...

Sounds like you are building an electrical power station for a very large microwave. Do you really need that big a microwave for traveling?
I've seen similar situations when people new to cruising buy a sailboat and want upgrades. They want everything to be the same as at home.

"Getting away from it all" generally requires some downsizing.

A man's got to know his limitations.
Harry Callahan Magnum Force

:cheers: vic
 

2006Roadtrek

Trying to spend my kids i
Just getting ready for retirement cruise. Will be spending 3-4 days boon docking which will be limited due to waste water limits. Then to RV park for a couple days. We are down sizing from 2200 Sqft and renting out the home, kids will have to find their own new home when they leave college. No boomerang here. So yes, we do enjoy some comforts we are taking with us.
 
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GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
I am curious if anyone has connected 2 of the auto transfer switches in series.
We currently have a 5000 automatic transfer relay in our RV. There is a shore power and a manual controlled generator connected.
We are adding a 3500 watt inverter with 200 amps lifepo4 to our system to run the microwave at night when we cannot use the generator.
Is it possible to connect two of these in series?
I would like to remove the generator from the primary transfer relay and then put the output from a newly purchased auto relay into the generator slot and have the solar/battery system be the primary backup input and the generator the last used option.
Any thoughts
I had 2 automatic transfer relays in my previous RV. With 3500W you don’t have to worry having the inverter accidentally running any overloads. I would suggest to keep the inverter connected through both ATR at their NC states so there is no power drawn by active the ATRs. I would put the generator on the inverter ATR as NO and the shore power on the second one, but there is not much difference between shore or generator.

Good luck,

George.
 

2006Roadtrek

Trying to spend my kids i
I talked to tech support at Progressive Dynamics today and they are very helpful and gave me the solution. I am not the first one thinking of putting 2 transfer switches in series.
First of all he told me I need to be able to switch off the battery charger. If not there will be a loop of the inverter supplying the battery charger running trying to charge the battery wasting electricity.
Next, disconnect shore power from original Auto Transfer Relay and connect the load or output from the new Auto Transfer Relay to the shore power in the original box. Next take the shore power line (supply) to the shore power connector in the new Auto Transfer Relay. The inverter gets connected to the generator connection in the new Auto Transfer Relay.
This will protect all systems.
FYI-The generator connection has a 15-45 second delay before connecting to make sure it is up to power. The inverter will have the same delay since it is connected to the generator connector.
If you are off grid or have unstable shore power you can turn on the inverter and it will disconnect the shore power and become the primary selected source of power. Like wise if you start the generator which is connected to the original Auto Transfer Relay it will disconnect the shore power connection and safely disconnect the shore power and inverter. How nice!
 

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