A/c vent confusion

thinice

2005 tall 140WB 160K
Confused about vent functions in A/C mode. My 2005 owners manual says "The upper air vents supply fresh air (not heated) to the passenger/load compartment." It does not mention their function when A/C is on. When I open them with the A/C on there is cold air coming out (colder on passenger side than driver side but, both cold.) of those upper vents. Is the fresh air function mentioned in the manual cut out with A/C on? That the way it feels, or am I mixing fresh and conditioned air when I open those vents with the A/C on? Been driving two years and hardly used the A/C. Dew-point through the roof today. That's your Minnesota weather.
 

hulagun

Haulin' A** since 1974
The Teutonic manual IS confusing. I was curious about this as well and really studied the owner's manual. There IS the dash button for a recirculate mode, after the recirc button is pushed one can hear a vent or two slamming shut, so some fresh air is surely coming in when the AC is on by itself (when the recirc button is NOT pushed). I'm still trying to figure out what all those o'clock positions on the circular vent routing switch do. :idunno:
 

thinice

2005 tall 140WB 160K
Thanks Hulagun
I agree, something appears to be lost in the translation of that manual. It's clear as mud. I went and fiddled with the controls today after reading your post and I am still mystified. Being a little hard of hearing I did not noticed the door slamming noise you mentioned in the recirculation position however, I did notice a definite increase in air flow through the upper vents when I close the side vents. They are obviously connected but I still don't understand how "fresh air" fits into the equation. Of course, there are lots of things I don't understand. Hopefully some of the finer minds on this fine forum will clarify. I am thinking of getting a digital thermometer to try and measure some temps. to try solving the mystery.
 

220629

Well-known member
Some things I've learned (and not form the manual as you guys have indicated)...

The top two air vents are after the evaporator cooling coil, but before the heater core. That means that in the winter you get full on ambient temperature air when the A/C isn't running (winter) and full cooling without any tempering if the A/C is on.

When the round dial near the fan control is pointing down at 6 o'clock you will potentially have the most air directed down to the floor. "Potentially" because until all the front face vents are turned off the lazy air will exit those less back pressure face vent openings first. That also applies when trying to encourage air to go up the windshield (windscreen) venting.

Be certain to clean or replace your cabin air filter occasionally. It can have quite a negative impact on air flow and HVAC performance as it gets dirty.

Sorry I can't offer more. vic
 

david_42

Active member
Thanks, Vic. Maybe you didn't cover all points for the OP, but you've answered a few questions I still had after eight years. Agree 100% on the cabinet filter. Also gets rid of that mousy smell, at least for a while.
 

thinice

2005 tall 140WB 160K
Thanks Vic
Would never have figured that out on my own. As you surly know, your a great asset to this forum. Read many of your helpful post. I did change my cabin filter and it made a world of difference. Also duct taped around the seams and straightened out the air inlet (was warped and missalianed) were it meets the hood when closed. Seemed to clear up that "mousy smell" David 42 mentioned.
 

hulagun

Haulin' A** since 1974
The top two air vents are after the evaporator cooling coil, but before the heater core. That means that in the winter you get full on ambient temperature air when the A/C isn't running (winter) and full cooling without any tempering if the A/C is on.

When the round dial near the fan control is pointing down at 6 o'clock you will potentially have the most air directed down to the floor. "Potentially" because until all the front face vents are turned off the lazy air will exit those less back pressure face vent openings first. That also applies when trying to encourage air to go up the windshield (windscreen) venting.
Let me see if I understand correctly: when the dash circular switch is set for top vents, the two top vents don't blow heater air. They DO blow unheated air, and when the AC is on, it's AC cooled air.

To get heated air, you must turn the dash circular switch to the under dash vent position (and it will help to close the dash face vents).

If I got that right, it's helpful. Thanks!

Wonder if having the recirc switch on (or off) helps out the heater? As I posted earlier, when the recirculate switch is activated, something moves a door or lid in the dash somewhere to the outside (ambient) air. There's an audible thud when it happens, and IIRC the fan sound changes noticeably. Having it on sure helps the AC cool faster, and IIRC it might blow harder thru the dash top vents.
 

thinice

2005 tall 140WB 160K
Hulagun
That's not how I interpret Vic's comments. Sounds to me that what comes out of the top vents is dependant on weather you are heating or cooling and the knob directing air flow is not a factor. His second paragraph appears to be dealing with direction of air flow ( to your feet or windscreen ect.) and does not relate to top vents. Maybe he will be kind enough to explain how the recirculation switch figures into the brew?
 

hulagun

Haulin' A** since 1974
Hulagun
That's not how I interpret Vic's comments. Sounds to me that what comes out of the top vents is dependant on weather you are heating or cooling and the knob directing air flow is not a factor. His second paragraph appears to be dealing with direction of air flow ( to your feet or windscreen ect.) and does not relate to top vents. Maybe he will be kind enough to explain how the recirculation switch figures into the brew?
OK. :laughing: Apparently we have different interpretations about what Vic meant about the heater in relation to the dashtop vents.

Is the recirculation switch relevant to the dashtop vents function? :idunno: thought it was worth considering.

Regardless, figuring out how to make it all work "right" is a challenge.

BTW - I have not yet had a chance to replace the cabin filter.. so doing so may entirely change my perception of how my van's AC system functions.
 

220629

Well-known member
I guess I wasn't clear with my comments. Sorry about that.

Some things I've learned (and not form the manual as you guys have indicated)...

The top two air vents are after the evaporator cooling coil, but before the heater core. That means that in the winter you get full on ambient temperature air when the A/C isn't running (winter) and full cooling without any tempering if the A/C is on.
There is no heat added to the top vents because they are before the heater core in the stream. The two top vents will never throw heat unless it is hot outside (ambient) and the A/C is off. The circular knob near the fan speed control has nothing to do with the top vents. The top vents are only directly controlled by the local mechanical flow adjustment wheel (1 wheel for each) and the blower fan speed. That said, the top vent air flow will rise and fall a bit depending upon how much air is being pumped to the lower vents because the duct pressure at the top vents changes.

Let me see if I understand correctly: when the dash circular switch is set for top vents, the two top vents don't blow heater air. They DO blow unheated air, and when the AC is on, it's AC cooled air.
Yes, but the dash circular switch isn't "set" for the upper vents in any position. The top vents are independent.

To get heated air, you must turn the dash circular switch to the under dash vent position (and it will help to close the dash face vents).
Not exactly. To get heated air you must set the temperature control up high enough. I find that for heating mine is happy most of the time in the lower gray area. The temperature control looks for feedback from a thermistor located in the small grill located opposite the fan speed switch. They look similar, but the far right unit has vents and a small fan to pull air past the thermistor. The temperature control will then cycle heat up and down in response to that feedback.

The dash circular switch is then used to direct that conditioned air to the windshield vents, floor vents, etc. in a secret setting proportion known only to MB insiders. Mere mortals need to experiment.

Wonder if having the recirc switch on (or off) helps out the heater? As I posted earlier, when the recirculate switch is activated, something moves a door or lid in the dash somewhere to the outside (ambient) air. There's an audible thud when it happens, and IIRC the fan sound changes noticeably. Having it on sure helps the AC cool faster, and IIRC it might blow harder thru the dash top vents.
The MB engineers love us to have fresh air so that is why they limit us to 15 minute intervals or so of recirculation.

There is a diverter which stops the outside air from being pulled in. Using recirculation can improve the performance of your system. If it is extremely cold outside then the outside air which is drawn into the vehicle takes more heat to get it up to temperature. In the summer on extremely hot and humid days, then the evaporator cooling coil works harder to de-humidify and lower the temperature of that air. If you are exclusively bringing air back from the cabin, that air is already conditioned so the load on the system can be less.

Anyway, I hope this helps. vic
 

thinice

2005 tall 140WB 160K
Hulagun
Then again, I could be wrong, would not be the first time. I would also like to hear more about the function of the recirculation switch.
 

thinice

2005 tall 140WB 160K
Thanks for being so patient with a rookie vic, I think I've got it now. Good to hear how the recirc. works. I will now be using it on those cold Mn. winter days and when dew point is up, like now.
Tim
 

hulagun

Haulin' A** since 1974
OK, Vic, I understood you the first time but it's a bit clearer now.

I'm still sure the dash top vents do not have adjustable vanes on them. So they DO have flow adjusters. :hmmm: Can't picture them...

When I referenced the circular dash knob as being "set for" the top vents, I was recalling there's a knob position marked with an upward arrow. So that not a setting for the top vents, but instead for some other vents, or the the defroster or the dash face vents? Or did I imagine it? :thinking:

Should have waited to post until I was home sitting right in my van and could see what the knobs say! :lol:
 

thinice

2005 tall 140WB 160K
Hulagun
Yes, the circular dash knob set for top position directs flow to defrost and dash face vents as you speculated. The top vents are adjusted by the wheels on either side as Vic mentioned. No vanes, adjustment is simply regulating how far open or closed you spin the wheels.
 

Boater

New member
I don't have AC in my van (I do in the car) but I have recirculation.

Basically when you have AC you have 3 radiators, 4 for a turbo. You have 1 or 2 up front in the grille that just lose heat from the engine or intercooler as appropriate - this heat goes into the air you drive through and is lost.
You have another radiator called a heater matrix which is also on the engine coolant circuit and probably before the main radiator, but mounted behind the dash in the air ducting. Heat lost though this radiator warms air in the ducting, typically it does it all the time, but unless you select a heater control position that allows that air to waft into the cabin you don't actually get the warm air.
The last radiator is on a refrigerant circuit and is called an evaporator and is in another part of the air ducting, this one is connected up backwards in that it takes heat out of the air in the ducting to make the refrigerant expand from liquid to gas (like when you run off a propane bottle at full flow and the top starts to ice up). This radiator will only be working if the AC is turned on because it needs the compressor to move the refrigerant around and compress back into liquid form at the end of each cycle.

So you are barrelling along at full speed on the motorway or interstate on a warm day with AC turned on. The heater matrix will be hot, the evaporator will be cold, probably the engine is too hot for the heater matrix to cool so the thermostat will be open and the radiator will be hot too but you needn't worry about that or the intercooler any more. What you have on tap is a hot air supply and a cold air supply. The heater controls simply open and close flaps by varying amounts to mix the warm air with the cold, or fresh air to get the cabin temperature you want.

Normally air is drawn in from outside through the cabin air filter and this fresh air can be mixed with warm air (some is diverted to the heater matrix). It seems, and I haven't got my head round my heater controls at all yet so I am working on my understanding of Vics explanation (like you needed another interpretation) that warm or mixed air is only available to the lower vents, not the upper vents. The upper vents are supplied with fresh air, but the fresh air is first passed over the evaporator, so if AC is on you get chilled fresh air (one assumes the diversion of air to the heater matrix is upstream of the evaporator) - after the evaporator some air is available to the upper vents and the rest goes down to rejoin the heated air, depending on the control settings.

Now recirc. is kind of totally independant of all of that, although it is useful with AC. When recirc is off the fresh air comes in the front of the vehicle, and somewhere towards the back behind some trim is a outlet vent to let the stale air out. When you switch recirc on, flaps move around and the fresh air no longer comes from outside, but from the outlet vent, so you get your used air blown back into the front of the cab again. This is useful when you have AC on and it's hot outside because you can recirc the already cooled air so your AC has less work to do. Also, as the evaporator chills the air moisture in it condenses and falls out of saturation, reducing humidity and taking out impurities which get condensed as well. However, there is only a finite amount of oxygen in a given volume of air, and each time you breathe it you turn a bit more to CO2, hence the recommendation not to use it continually, or in MBs case a 15 minute timeout.
So my van without AC also has recirc - why? Well if I drive through a tunnel, the air in it will mostly be exhaust fumes, so if I remember to hit recirc before I go in, I will be recirculating fresher air than is available outside. The same if I pass a farm and don't want the manure smell in the cab, I can choose recirc and keep the less smelly air for a while.

In my car I like to use recirc with AC to take moisture out of the air, particularly useful in the winter here when when moist air just turns to mist on the windscreen, I can mix it with warm air, but over a period of time I will dry the air out and reducing the amount of misting (or worse freezing) on the inside of the windscreen.

Why is it that if you don't use AC for 6 months and then turn it on you get a funny smell (disgusting some would say), well because your evaporator makes condensation, it gets damp, which is fine when it is being used a lot and the dampness can be dried out, but if you leave it sitting idle for a long time bacteria will start to grow in the moisture and it is these bacteria that make the smell.

So basically all your heating and cooling system is, is a hot radiator, an optional cold radiator and bunch of flaps to determine how much air to pass over each and re-mix, oh and a big fan to help the air along.

I have 3 dials on my non AC dash, one sets the fan speed and if I push it in it engages recirc. The next controls the flaps to determine how warm the air is - Vic's explanation is that the air that this controls only comes out of the lower vents. The rightmost dial is the biggest mystery to me it has arrows and dots and a rectangle, and in some way seems to allow me to choose which vents get air, but by Vics explanation it does not alter the source of the air, just whether the vents are supplied or not, thus the upper vents may or may not have air supply, but it will always direct from outside (or from recirc) via the evaporator but never via the heater matrix.

I can sort of understand this approach, warm air on my face makes me drowsy, fresh air wakes me up. In my car I either have the vents blow warm and risk falling asleep, or put a jumper on and have the vents blow cold. Sounds to me like I get a better option in the sprinter which is to have the lower body warm and the face cool, although I suspect I have control flap issues because I only seem to get max heat or fresh air.... That of course was before the strong smell of oil seed rape the other day made me check my cabin/pollen filter, now that I have installed one I might get slightly less airflow, but with lest dust and pollen in it!
 

hulagun

Haulin' A** since 1974
Hulagun
...The top vents are adjusted by the wheels on either side as Vic mentioned. No vanes, adjustment is simply regulating how far open or closed you spin the wheels.
ohhh, I know how they work... just couldn't see them from my office. :cheers:
 

hulagun

Haulin' A** since 1974
That's good, guess I was wrong again, but as someone once said
"To live a creative life we must loose our fear of being wrong."
Sorry, did not mean to say you were wrong. Just explaining that I was working in a vacuum. But we digress... :rolleyes: ...sounds like you got your questions answered.

See you on the road!
 

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