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whitedog
05-31-2012, 02:43 PM
The back story is HERE. (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21057)

I thought I would make some notes on this repair for anyone bored enough to read them.

Basically, the engine was running rough, had no power, was smoking and blowing the oil dipstick out of it's hole. All of these things point to a burned or cracked Piston. I talked to Dr. A about it and he said that the 04,05,06 engines don't break pistons. I seem to to recall that they went to Trapezoidal rod/piston joints and I know that this adds strength there so I wonder if this is the reason why they changed.

I did some testing and verified that the problem was #5 cylinder and since at that point nothing was to be done except yard it out of there, I dug in. The following are random notes:

The engine harness came off of the engine and laid over.

I sprayed penetrating oil on the exhaust bolts a day before.

Both A/C compressors came unbolted and moved to the side a bit as well as the condensor. No A/C lines were opened.

I removed the injector lines and covered them with Heavy Aluminum Foil.

Heavy Aluminum Foil is a great way to seal up open ports.

Dr. A suggested removing the transmission with the engine. It's a whole lot easier to get the flex plate bolts out and getting the engine and trans lined up is next to impossible in the van unless you unbolt the trans and slide it back. I think that this is due to the angle of the engine.

I put a floor jack under the transmission pan with the jack running long-ways so that it would roll as I pulled the engine forward.

Remove the cover for the cabin filter.

Choke up the lifting chain as much as possible and the same with the chain on the cherry-picker.

The service manual says to cut the piece of tin going across under the radiator to get the engine out and I did this. I don't know if I had to but it allowed me to move the engine forward about three inches before coming up and this allowed the cherry picker to clear the cowling.

I removed the Drivers side engine mount since it would have hit the A/C compressors.

The rear engine lifting hook is a balance point with the transmission attached.

I kept the transmission lines and dipstick tube attached during removal and are still on the transmission after it's separated.

There's one more bolt you missed and that's why the part isn't coming off.

Dr. A told me to put a board over the cross-member and power steering cross member and just drag the transmission across that. After I got it out so far, I set it down using a jackstand on the side and rehooked on the rear lifting hook. This actually wasn't quite right due to Geometry and things were hitting between the intake and the cherry picker, but I got it out eventually. Just remember that the transmission always has to be tipped down until it clears the firewall.

I set the assembly on three jackstands under the engine (After reinstalling the motor mount) and removed the transmission. I then picked up the engine and bolted on the spider for the engine stand. Be sure you don't bolt to the oil pan holes. After the spider was on, it slips right into the engine stand. I have seen dealer techs struggling with bolting the spider to the engine while the spider is still on the stand. This is silly. Take it off, bolt it on, then slide it in.

Next installment is head removal. Or as the French kings would say, "Divorce".

whitedog
05-31-2012, 07:01 PM
Head is off.

Slight scoring there on the walls. I can barely feel it with my finger and can't really catch it with my nail. I can actually still see the cross-hatch marks in the scored areas.

sailquik
05-31-2012, 08:26 PM
Hmmmm....
The hole and radial crack in the top of the piston looks a bit ominous.
The bore looks pretty good.
Ask Dr. A to take a look.
You can probably just replace the piston and rings.
Maybe a minor hone job on the #5 bore.
If all the other pistons look good, probably just replace
the #5 with the hole in it.
Maybe Dr. A can provide us with an idea of what may have
caused the hole in the piston...... too much fuel/hydrauliced...
not enough fuel and burned through......what?
Roger

whitedog
05-31-2012, 09:40 PM
The odd part is the shape of the hole. It is flat against the crack, but rounded on the other side. It's like the burning went as far as the crack, then the crack stopped the heat from expanding the hole. But this would happen only if the crack occurred first and Dr. A says these pistons don't crack. That points to the hole starting and causing a stress riser that caused the crack, so why isn't the hole on each side of the crack?

The crack only extends to not quite the center of the piston and all the way down to the wrist pin.

Dingo
05-31-2012, 10:59 PM
Have seen similar on other engines when the gudgeon pin (wrist pin ) was incorrectly fitted . It caused a stress point & eventually the fracture to open . The missing piece blew out under the pressure of combustion . May i suggest that you look to see if the crack lines up with the wrist pin area , you might have a case to ask MB to repair your engine as this was most likely caused during assembly .

You might be p*ssing into the wind but it has to be worth a try , if the engine has never been apart since it was built you should be able to pass the buck to Mb engine builders

If you do rebuild it yourself , hone ALL the bores & fit new rings to each piston .

Best of luck with it :)

whitedog
06-01-2012, 03:02 AM
Have seen similar on other engines when the gudgeon pin (wrist pin ) was incorrectly fitted . It caused a stress point & eventually the fracture to open . The missing piece blew out under the pressure of combustion . May i suggest that you look to see if the crack lines up with the wrist pin area , you might have a case to ask MB to repair your engine as this was most likely caused during assembly .

You might be p*ssing into the wind but it has to be worth a try , if the engine has never been apart since it was built you should be able to pass the buck to Mb engine builders

If you do rebuild it yourself , hone ALL the bores & fit new rings to each piston .

Best of luck with it :)

Do you think that I will need to pull the crank to hone the cylinder(s)? And if the crank is in place, do the squirters need to come out?

talkinghorse43
06-01-2012, 03:28 PM
Pics of the top surface of the piston look a little like those posted some time back by Waynerodd of his own van that suffered overheating of a cylinder due to either loss of an oil squirter or a stuck open injector. Anyway, seems to me overheating (burned piston) of the piston could cause the damage shown.

whitedog
06-01-2012, 04:23 PM
Pics of the top surface of the piston look a little like those posted some time back by Waynerodd of his own van that suffered overheating of a cylinder due to either loss of an oil squirter or a stuck open injector. Anyway, seems to me overheating (burned piston) of the piston could cause the damage shown.

Oil squirter, eh? that's a good suggestion. from what I see, the squirter is angled slightly towards the front of the engine so the oil flow would be CCW as viewed from the top so the area where the crack occurred would be the last to get oil. If the oil flow is low out of that squirter, that part of the piston would be hottest causing the crack.

So do I need to pull the crank to R&R the squirter? I know the book says to, but what do I really need to do?

whitedog
06-01-2012, 06:33 PM
Talking with some other folks in town, I have come up with a few other ideas and thoughts.

The thoughts about the oil squirter not flowing enough oil seems good on the surface, but I think the piston should be showing signs of discoloration and it isn't. The scuffing in the cylinder is in line with the wrist pin and this is not typical of overheating. Typical four corner scuffing from overheating is just outside of the pin bosses rather than centered on them.

I am more and more sure that the hole is a chunk rather than a burned hole. Supporting this is a Ford piston I just looked at that has a hole all the way through to the rings and not only is the shape of the hole different, but that hole took less than a 1/4 mile to go all the way through and this hole only goes to the oil galley underneath after 20-30 miles. Also the edges of it are rough rather then melted appearance of a burned hole.

This leads back to what Dingo mentioned about his experience with the gudgeon pin being incorrectly installed. That being said, I don't see anything in the wrist pin bores that indicate anything but Love during installation.

:idunno:

talkinghorse43
06-01-2012, 06:38 PM
The good Doktor (abittenbinder), or maybe waynerodd would know.

whitedog
06-01-2012, 08:15 PM
The good Doktor (abittenbinder), or maybe waynerodd would know.

Yeah, I need to get a better picture too.

jdcaples
06-01-2012, 10:15 PM
When this is over, don't forget root cause analysis.

I don't want my engine to die on me like that, so if I can prevent it, I'll go to great, economically dubious lengths.

-Jon

whitedog
06-01-2012, 11:33 PM
I have spent all morning talking with people about failure analysis and it what most of these post are about. I will be sure to share any conclusion that I come up with. I still would like some additional, real life information on the oil squirters. I have PMd Dr.A and Wayne but haven't heard back from them as of yet.

Attached is another picture without the O-ring pick in the way.

whitedog
06-01-2012, 11:36 PM
Let me try the picture thing again.

Something I just thought about is that the round surface had carbon on it. Typically a streaming injector would be washing that area and cleaning it, washing away the soot. Also the heat required to melt the piston wouldn't allow that soot to build there, would it?

Aqua Puttana
06-02-2012, 12:21 AM
Let me try the picture thing again.

Something I just thought about is that the round surface had carbon on it. Typically a streaming injector would be washing that area and cleaning it, washing away the soot. Also the heat required to melt the piston wouldn't allow that soot to build there, would it?

Ths picture is much better. That said, is there definte signs of melting? The edges of the hole look pretty sharp. Maybe an inclusion caused a weak area which finally failed? It's tough tell anything from a picture though. vic

whitedog
06-02-2012, 12:33 AM
Ths picture is much better. That said, is there definte signs of melting? The edges of the hole look pretty sharp. Maybe an inclusion caused a weak area which finally failed? It's tough tell anything from a picture though. vic

Vic, you are the third person I have talked to that mentioned an inclusion. The only way to know for sure would be to break apart the piston somehow. I have some carb dip I could use to clean things up really good and maybe see the surface in there better.

It's certainly possible, it would just seem odd that the inclusion was directly over the gudgeon pin.I still want to break it apart, but I don't have any good ideas on how to do that.

sailquik
06-02-2012, 12:57 AM
Whitedog,
Find someone with a band saw (fine plade for aluminum) and saw it from the other side in precise alignment with the crack.
Then saw up the skirt on the carcked side and you should be able to see the failed area quite well without any saw marks to mislead.
Don't saw into the crack or the hole....leave those alone. Might have to use a wedge or
two to break it apart.
Roger

Aqua Puttana
06-02-2012, 01:12 AM
I don't want my engine to die on me like that, so if I can prevent it, I'll go to great, economically dubious lengths.

-Jon

One of my jobs in past was making vanadium aluminum which was used in the manufacture of jet engines. I believe it was specifically for the turbine blade assemblies. Each lot of 1/4 x down size metal was x-rayed to screen out contaminants before being shipped in special drums. Maybe you can order custom pistons from Lockheed?

Seriously though, any inconsistency in metal can cause weak spots and a potential failure area. An inclusion of any type will do it. Vic

whitedog
06-02-2012, 02:41 AM
One of my jobs in past was making vadium aluminum which was used in the manufacture of jet engines. I believe it was specifically for the turbine blade assemblies. Each lot of 1/4 x down size metal was x-rayed to screen out contaminants before being shipped in special drums. Maybe you can order custom pistons from Lockheed?

Seriously though, any inconsistency in metal can cause weak spots and a potential failure area. An inclusion of any type will do it. Vic

Vic, would the aluminum of those pistons show discoloration from heat? I was thinking of steel that would get blue, and I don't see any of that, but I'm not sure that I would with the Aluminum.

I did notice some yellowing on the bottom that could be from oil that got hot there and turned yellow. This is the only sign that I have seen to indicate excessive heat.

To open the crack, I could cut it horizontally at the wrist pin, then vertically at the piston crown to meet the first cut. This would slice out the cracked section and it could easily be broken open. But is there steel supports in the ring lands? I haven't cleaned it up enough to tell.

Aqua Puttana
06-02-2012, 03:23 AM
Vic, would the aluminum of those pistons show discoloration from heat? I was thinking of steel that would get blue, and I don't see any of that, but I'm not sure that I would with the Aluminum.

I did notice some yellowing on the bottom that could be from oil that got hot there and turned yellow. This is the only sign that I have seen to indicate excessive heat.

...
My experience with aluminum in gas engines, industrial equipment and electrical equipment is that aluminum subjected to heat doesn't discolor like steel does. There may be some black coloring around the area of the actual high heat or melting, but not necessarily an obvious color change like steel. Whether that experience transfers over to diesel pistons... :idunno:

The yellow coloring could be from fuel or oil, but I defer to anyone with diesel experience. Sorry I can't offer more. vic

whitedog
06-02-2012, 03:30 AM
My experience with aluminum in gas engines, industrial equipment and electrical equipment is that aluminum subjected to heat doesn't discolor like steel does. There may be some black coloring around the area of the actual high heat or melting, but not necessarily an obvious color change like steel. Whether that experience transfers over to diesel pistons... :idunno:

The yellow coloring could be from fuel or oil, but I defer to anyone with diesel experience. Sorry I can't offer more. vic

It could very well be fuel because the hole is right in line with an injector hole and it would be spraying fuel through that hole and into the oil cooling passage underneath, thence in to oil. But I think it's not a big issue at this point.

What about the timing chain? What is the expected life of the chain? It would seem that now would be the time to replace it, but I would like to hear some real life opinions. Also, if it needs to be changed, it looks like there is a swedging tool for that. Is that the only way to do it right?

whitedog
06-03-2012, 02:42 AM
I took the piston out of the dip today, cleaned it up, and noticed more evidence that it wasn't an injector. Take a look at the picture in post 14. The carbon equidistant on each side of the crack is where the fuel hits there. It doesn't hit in the hole. There is just no evidence that I can see that this was anything other than a crack that had pieces break out. Those pieces had to go out through the turbo so i looked closely at the exhaust side of the turbo and saw no damage anywhere.

I guess we got lucky on that part.

Aqua Puttana
06-03-2012, 03:28 AM
...Those pieces had to go out through the turbo so i looked closely at the exhaust side of the turbo and saw no damage anywhere.

...
Or down into the oil sump? Depending upon when they broke loose. vic

whitedog
06-03-2012, 03:32 AM
Or down into the oil sump? Depending upon when they broke loose. vic

That is an interesting thought. If the pieces came out in small enough chunks, they could have made it to the piston oil galley and to the pan. I'll take another look in the pan. The manual said that there is a suction screen, but I sure don't see one. Maybe it's up inside the tube.

Mikki
06-03-2012, 02:50 PM
Let me try the picture thing again.

Something I just thought about is that the round surface had carbon on it. Typically a streaming injector would be washing that area and cleaning it, washing away the soot. Also the heat required to melt the piston wouldn't allow that soot to build there, would it?
This is the same what my T1 did. When I rebuild that engine :yell: I also thinked hat cracked the piston and burn that hole. Injectors were tested and still are in good condition, head was rebuild at the same time, but no reason over there.
So only reason that could crack those pistons, is when you start engine in cold DONT load the engine too quickly cause the fuel spray will contact the piston and the piston is still cold inside but extremely hot on surface, so it make the aluminium crack.

Engine is 612.981 and piston #4 were cracked and burned hole. Pistons #1-3 and #5 were also cracked, some minor other up to pinhole!!!:hmmm:

And "whitedog", injectors doesnt "clean" that carbon from the combustion chamber, its usualy a sulphur from the fuel... IF the fuel contacts piston, it will detonate and leave a mark, like a little ball point hammer hit!:professor: So leaking or poor spray in injector will destroy piston AND head!!!:bash:

Hopefully mine little thinking will help you to sort this problem out...

And cheappest pistons I found here
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php
From MB "orginalteille" it was over $800:censored::2cents:

whitedog
06-03-2012, 03:20 PM
This is the same what my T1 did. When I rebuild that engine :yell: I also thinked hat cracked the piston and burn that hole. Injectors were tested and still are in good condition, head was rebuild at the same time, but no reason over there.
So only reason that could crack those pistons, is when you start engine in cold DONT load the engine too quickly cause the fuel spray will contact the piston and the piston is still cold inside but extremely hot on surface, so it make the aluminium crack.

Engine is 612.981 and piston #4 were cracked and burned hole. Pistons #1-3 and #5 were also cracked, some minor other up to pinhole!!!:hmmm:

And "whitedog", injectors doesnt "clean" that carbon from the combustion chamber, its usualy a sulphur from the fuel... IF the fuel contacts piston, it will detonate and leave a mark, like a little ball point hammer hit!:professor: So leaking or poor spray in injector will destroy piston AND head!!!:bash:

Hopefully mine little thinking will help you to sort this problem out...

And cheappest pistons I found here
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php
From MB "orginalteille" it was over $800:censored::2cents:

Thank you Mikki. First, thank you for that Avatar. I keep watching it and giggling.

Second thank you for making me remember that I haven't looked at any of the other pistons or bores. I knew #5 was missing so I didn't even look at any of the others. I need to look at them all closely for cracks and for any scuffing in the bores.

Third, thank you for the suggestion of the how it may have failed. I am 99% sure that it had nothing to do with a bad injector, so that leaves mis-assembly of the wrist pin, (though I don't see any witness marks to support that) an inclusion in the piston, (I would have to break open the piston to see that) or your suggestion. I would like your opinion on how long this would take from initial cracking to failure. The van ran for a few hours before it started to miss. But if it was a cold start that morning and it started to fail then, would it have run for a few hours with pulling some pretty good grades and then failed to where it started missing?

Dingo
06-03-2012, 03:38 PM
Whitedog , the wrist pin might look OK , but if it was forced in during assembly , you might not "see" any damage as the frature / break /crack has been lost when it broke . The installation can easily set up stress risers the lead to the fracture occuring .

I know it is of no consolation to you , but i think we have established the reason for your fault occuring

whitedog
06-03-2012, 03:57 PM
Whitedog , the wrist pin might look OK , but if it was forced in during assembly , you might not "see" any damage as the frature / break /crack has been lost when it broke . The installation can easily set up stress risers the lead to the fracture occuring .

I know it is of no consolation to you , but i think we have established the reason for your fault occuring

Dingo, I'm thinking it's either the cold start or mis-alignment, but until I crack it open, I won't know for sure. Since it is centered over the wrist pin, I am sure stress is the cause, but I haven't concluded where the stress came from. Once the engine is running again, I'll do something to open up the piston and take a good look at the fracture face. Hopefully that will tell me something conclusive. Maybe I'll see some cool "beach marks" pointing to a stress riser that will support your idea. I honestly hope to find that.

Thank you for taking your time with helping me with ideas.:thumbup:

Aqua Puttana
06-03-2012, 04:11 PM
Whitedog , the wrist pin might look OK , but if it was forced in during assembly , you might not "see" any damage as the frature / break /crack has been lost when it broke . ...
If the piston can be split open without damaging the cracked area the surface of the crack may yield some information. Aluminum is somewhat porous. Any older surface of the crack may show a darker tint as compared to the most recent failure. Or... it may not show anything as you said.

I'm thinking that initially the piston could crack which would affect operating and increase oil use. It may have taken a while before the stresses of compression and temperature caused the hole to punch through. That's a guess.

Let's hope the other pistons look OK under close inspection and that #5 is a unique incident.

Very interesting thread. vic

whitedog
06-03-2012, 04:36 PM
Thank you again, Mikki. I Just got down tot he shop and looked again and #3 is cracked at well. The crack is starting at the lip of the swirl bowl, not at the wrist pin. I think that this conclusively eliminates the crack starting at the wrist pin and going up to the bowl. It started at the bowl and went down. The crack is only about 3/4 inch long indicating that this crack can be there for awhile before it reaches critical failure. I now know that this wasn't a single-cycle failure, but was a progressive crack and if I open it up, evidence will point to it's origin.

I just cleaned the others and saw definite cracks in them as well. So all five pistons. :thumbdown::yell::censored::frown:

glasseye
06-03-2012, 05:43 PM
Great forensics, boys. :cheers: Informative and interesting. Also, superb documentation. :hugs:

Now, if we can just find the cause....

whitedog
06-03-2012, 06:23 PM
Original owner wasn't a diesel guy and I am thinking that he did alot of hard running without warming the engine. The cracks in most of the other pistons are barely visible and that indicates to me that the crack was there for the most time and the others have been slowly getting there.

If someone wants, I'll send you a cracked piston and you can install it and let us know how long it lasts. :lol:

I thank everyone for their ideas. Even if the proof showed otherwise, it does two things: it shares knowledge and it gets the mind working and thinking around the blocks that our minds put up. Honestly, I don't think I would have made it to the conclusion without everyone's input.

Aqua Puttana
06-04-2012, 01:33 PM
I did a bit of searching for piston cracking. Here's some info I found interesting.

********************
I liked the quick guide they include in this PDF. Maybe page 34 for you?

Piston Damages

http://www.boosttown.com/engine/piston_damage.pdf


**********************
Causes for Cracked Pistons

1. Timing

2. PW *edit = most likely Pulse Width as related to injector timing

3. injector issues

4. Propane

5. Nitrous

6. Water/meth injection

7. Thermal fatigue

8.


Causes for star pattern on pistons

1. Overfueling caused by tuning.

2. Overfueling caused by injectors.

3. Poor injector spray pattern due to nozzles.

4.

What can change injection timing

1. Tuning (of course)

2. Sensor foolers

3. Bad EOT sensor *edit = Engine Oil Temperature

4. High ICP *edit = Injection Control Pressure

The above is from Post #7. There are other comments also.
http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/showthread.php?p=838834#post838834
************************

There were many more hits. I used Google "crack diesel piston". FWIW. vic

whitedog
06-04-2012, 01:52 PM
Excellent PDF. Thank you.

talkinghorse43
06-04-2012, 03:17 PM
Excellent PDF. Thank you.

The first picture in 3.4.3 (page 34 of PDF) looks exactly like yours. So, it appears your cause is some kind of piston overheating due to too much heat or not enough cooling.

Since the other pistons show damage as well, maybe oil pressure is too low, or there is some issue with the cooling system?

whitedog
06-04-2012, 05:15 PM
In my twisted mind, everything points to too much WOT when cold. The crack is right between where two nozzle holes hit so the heat from each area would have met right at the initiation point.

Something not related to the engine is the transmission connector. There was no external leakage, but when I disconnected the connector, it was full of oil. Is this normal, or do I need a new one? I know that they are cheap, but I just want to be sure here.

Pilgrim
06-04-2012, 05:20 PM
cracked piston issues posted on the diesel forums seem to indicate manufacturing problems as the root cause.

whitedog
06-04-2012, 06:51 PM
cracked piston issues posted on the diesel forums seem to indicate manufacturing problems as the root cause.

What diesel forums is that?

talkinghorse43
06-04-2012, 08:40 PM
Something not related to the engine is the transmission connector. There was no external leakage, but when I disconnected the connector, it was full of oil. Is this normal, or do I need a new one? I know that they are cheap, but I just want to be sure here.

Don't know exactly what you mean here, but if there was no oil in the wiring you disconnected, then you should replace the socket liner that is discussed at length on this forum. However, if there was oil in the wiring, that can result in oil getting to the TCM under the driver's seat and damage to the TCM. If the latter is the case, then I believe new wiring is required since the pin sockets must be potted in the connector to assure the required seal.

Mikki
06-04-2012, 08:43 PM
Something not related to the engine is the transmission connector. There was no external leakage, but when I disconnected the connector, it was full of oil. Is this normal, or do I need a new one?
No, its not normal, but really usual, allmost normal:thumbup:
So just get a service kit for transmission and new connector. Easy job

For those pistons, same in my case. All 4 was cracked from the bowl, and one was up to wrist pin!!!

And IF someone wants to test those pistons, ill send them right away!!!:thinking::thinking::lol:

Now, check also cranck sensor, it doesnt do this fault, BUT 99% of engine stalling on the road is CS gone down...
Now its easy and cheap to fix it!

Pilgrim
06-04-2012, 11:31 PM
search " cracked piston diesel cause"
www.boosttown.com/engine/piston_damage.pdf
www.thedieselgarage.com
www.powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98228..
www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242057
competitiondiesel.com ... GM Competition and Performance
www.cumminsforum.com
lots of them

Aqua Puttana
06-05-2012, 12:36 AM
search " cracked piston diesel cause"
...
lots of them
Care to quote or point to some of them? Breezing through a few of your listed non-specific links I found one post by one guy blaming Ford for bad manufacture.

Back in post #33 I showed some of the same links which I had searched out. I ended with -
There were many more hits. I used Google "crack diesel piston". FWIW. vic -

The flavor I got was ignition timing, tuning, over-heated pistons... no blaming poor manufacturing glaring repetition which I found. Maybe I missed them. :idunno: I'm just trying to expand my education with your specific info. vic

whitedog
06-05-2012, 12:42 AM
One thread that was linked earlier turned into a flame war on tuners.:thumbdown:

Reading and reading and reading can give a good basis, but conversations - even typed ones - is where the ideas really come from.

whitedog
06-09-2012, 03:39 AM
All is going well. Pistons are in, pan is on, the head is on.

I am struggling with the cam timing. I am almost positive that I have it right, but I need to be sure.

The intake cam is pinned and the exhaust cam is lined up so that when the chain drive gear is installed, the slot is straight up and down and one hole is up. The (2006) manual shows two dots on the face of the cam gears that get lined up but I do NOT have them. Back on the thrust collars are dots on each one and they are both straight up.

Does anyone know if this is correct?

whitedog
06-09-2012, 05:47 AM
OK. I'm feeling better now.

Click here to know why. (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=131700&postcount=122)

slooowr6
06-09-2012, 08:10 AM
OK. I'm feeling better now.

Click here to know why. (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=131700&postcount=122)

:clapping: Thanks for finding out the root cause. So it's the the valve hitting the piston?

whitedog
06-09-2012, 02:13 PM
Not caused by piston-valve interference, but thermal loading. I'm assembling now and was looking for assistance.

Aqua Puttana
06-09-2012, 02:29 PM
Not caused by piston-valve interference, but thermal loading. I'm assembling now and was looking for assistance.
Whitedog,
Thanks for the continued updates.

I'm curious as to how one could check that the oil spray system which directs cooling oil to the underside of the psitons can be tested. Is is possible to just use air pressure to see that at least none of the nozzles are plugged? Anyone willing to share expereince? vic

talkinghorse43
06-09-2012, 03:06 PM
Whitedog,
Thanks for the continued updates.

I'm curious as to how one could check that the oil spray system which directs cooling oil to the underside of the psitons can be tested. Is is possible to just use air pressure to see that at least none of the nozzles are plugged? Anyone willing to share expereince? vic

Maybe you will be able to find it here (I couldn't), but I'm almost sure the good Doktor wrote about it when he reported that the oil jets feature spring-loaded check balls that don't open until about 20 psi oil pressure. That fact and this thread (and others from the OP) has me wondering if pistons can be overheated by excessive idling in hot weather. We're down in Houston, TX now and when idling in rush hour traffic in 95+ weather with the A/C on, coolant temps get to 200+ (Scangauge) while the oil pressure I measure (Mobil 1 0w40) is <20 psi at the oil pump outlet (probably lower at the jets), so no oil cooling spray at idle.

Aqua Puttana
06-09-2012, 03:21 PM
TH43,
After you mentioned Andy's comments I recalled that thread also. Here it is.

How to verify oil squirters are working?

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19905

You may be on to something with the idling in hot conditions. I do remember that our oil pressure goes pretty low. I may be basing that upon your oil pressure gauge reports.

Thanks for jogging my memory. I should have remembered. :doh: vic

whitedog
06-10-2012, 02:31 AM
Finished dressing the engine this morning, bolted it to the transmission and swung it in. Most of the stuff is hooked up, it's just down to the wiring and the stuff on the front. I have an oil pressure gauge installed, but I can see that I'll probably have to take some things off to get it back out, but I never start an engine I built without an oil pressure gauge in it. Should finish tomorrow and be making smoke by this time tomorrow.

whitedog
06-10-2012, 10:19 PM
It's alive. I had my gauge hooked up and the big wire on the CP3 unhooked so it wouldn't start and cranked it ten seconds and no oil pressure.

OK, no big deal, I had it empty. Wait a minute and crank it a bit longer. At about 20 seconds, it fired off! YIKES! Still no oil pressure, but my blood pressure is starting to rise.

I go ahead and hook up the CP3 and fire it off and the oil pressure just barely comes up. Then I notice that I have a 5000 PSI gauge on my hose.:laughing:

Swap gauges and fire it off again and it came up to 85 PSI cold. Sweet!

I put in 10 quarts, not thinking about having the whole engine empty, so it's back to Wally World to get more T6.

The few seconds it ran, it sounded good.:clapping:

mendonsy
06-11-2012, 12:17 AM
Sounds good!! I hope your problem is completely solved! :cheers::clapping::popcorn:

whitedog
06-11-2012, 01:28 AM
Engine runs but the transmission doesn't shift. It moves, but doesn't shift. P0702 was the code. It's time to go searching for what I could have done.

rbrennick
06-11-2012, 01:36 AM
This guy is my hero and has a good handle on real world "time is money."
Pat on the back for how quickly you diagnosed, attacked, and buttoned it up.
FWIW, been there; I have two "trophy" pistons just like yours on my shelf from a 2003
project I did. Put two used pistons in from Andy- present owners have put over 60,000
on it since my "surgery." Whew...:smilewink:
Great job.
Rich

whitedog
06-11-2012, 01:46 AM
This guy is my hero and has a good handle on real world "time is money."
Pat on the back for how quickly you diagnosed, attacked, and buttoned it up.
FWIW, been there; I have two "trophy" pistons just like yours on my shelf from a 2003
project I did. Put two used pistons in from Andy- present owners have put over 60,000
on it since my "surgery." Whew...:smilewink:
Great job.
Rich

Thanks, Rich, but not the transmission doesn't shift. Any thoughts?

MillionMileSprinter
06-11-2012, 02:08 AM
I've made this mistake before:
Did you check the tranny fluid level?
Good luck.:thumbup:

whitedog
06-11-2012, 02:12 AM
I've made this mistake before:
Did you check the tranny fluid level?
Good luck.:thumbup:

Transmission problems HERE. (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21268)

whitedog
06-17-2012, 04:03 AM
I think that I came up with a absolute final Root Cause. The final clue that I had looked at many times was the $2000 radar detector system. I just never added it into the equation.

whitedog
07-20-2012, 02:21 PM
FYI, she has used about a quart of oil since the 500 mile oil change. I think that we are approaching 5000 miles now and I am considering changing the oil soon, then going to 10,000 miles. I'll look at the odometer and try to get the OCI at an nice, even 10,000 mile point.

jdcaples
07-20-2012, 02:30 PM
I think that I came up with a absolute final Root Cause. The final clue that I had looked at many times was the $2000 radar detector system. I just never added it into the equation.

Radar detector? Seriously? Does Bend Oregon have that many (ridiculously low limit) speed traps, or is that van regularly redlined?

-Jon

whitedog
07-20-2012, 02:42 PM
The PO was a salesman that drove around the country once or twice a year. Apparently he was in a hurry.