2002 no start / stalling issue

so, this problem is about a year and a half old now, and it still hasn't been rectified after $10k+ in repairs by a certified sprinter shop...

PROBLEM:
the sprinter doesn't want to start at all. after much priming and a bunch of start attempts, it can/will EVENTUALLY start... but as soon as you shut the engine off (or it dies), it's the same thing all over again. also, it dies on you every time you try to drive it... the problem manifests itself as the check engine light (followed by a few other lights like the battery symbol) coming on and the engine promptly stalling. this can/will happen at any and all speeds. needless to say, it then refuses to restart, no matter how warm the engine is.

BACKGROUND/RECENT WORK:
a certified sprinter shop JUST completed the following work (literally 0 miles on it since the below work was done):

new starter (third one in about 3000 miles... they keep dying from fatigue)
new high and low pressure fuel -inj. pumps
new injectors
new maf
new fuel filter

also, i just drained and filled the tank (and primed the whole system) with fresh, clean, new diesel.

QUESTION:
does anybody have any idea what may be causing all of these symptoms? the entire fuel system, from the tank all the way to the injectors is BRAND NEW and should be working perfectly... but the problem is the same as it was before all of the above work was done.

please help... this problem is maddening!

thanks!

It might need a new Cam position sensor on top of the engine, or Crank position sensor at back of engine.
What codes does the Star Computer diagnostics throw? What part of the world are you located?

i am in portland, oregon.

also, what/where is the "star computer diagnostics"?

Sounds like air in the fuel line. Since this is a 2002, you can look and see in the clear fuel line how much air is in there before you start, and watch the bubbles or foamy fuel when the motor is running. If not air in the lines via leak at the fual filter (most common), another "mystery" failure involves the wiring in the back of the fuse block; search forum.

cocheese: what Sprinter shop have you taken it to?

All Sprinter certified shops have a device to plug into the Sprinter's computer to read what faults the engine is experiencing and help diagnose your problem. Some people call it Star Diagnostics tool, some call it DAD, DRBIII, or OBD2. Ask the mechanics what the fault codes were and some on here can help with your problem. There may be a member on here with a DAD who can help with that?

From another thread:

surlyoldbill said:

most likely "no start" sources in the OM612:

1. air in fuel lines, due to
a. bad fuel filter connections
b. old o-rings in clear fuel line connections
c. damaged tank to filter fuel line (least likely)
2. low rail pressure due to
a. bad injector(s)
b. rail pressure solenoid o-rings
3. failed camshaft sensor
4. failed or damaged crank sensor

Be sure to bookmark this to forward to people who ask about their "no start" issue next week.

Click to expand...

I've had a few no start issues with my '02, once with a bad WIF seal on the fuel filter (which was allowing the low press. pump to suck air into the lines) and once with a bad cam sensor. After a little bit of chasing it around, Upscale Auto (Sprinter Store) in Tualatin fixed it- they are definitely familiar with the quirks of the OM 612 ('01-'03) engine. In the year since I had two isolated brief start and stall conditions (once hot and once cold- never figured that out... injectors leak tested fine) that have not recurred for the last 7-8 months; otherwise it has started every time I turned the key.

Good luck... and please post when you get the issue resolved.

I have some air bubbles in my fuel line when the engine is running. I think I may need to replace the o rings on the fuel line. Does anyone know what the correct size of the O rings are. I suspect the one on the fuel filter. My sprinter is a 2002.

Please stop throwing parts at your truck.

Have the codes read by someone with a DAD, or pay to have a dealer scan all your codes and give you a report.

The CEL (check engine light) usually only goes on when something that could damage the truck is happening and that is why the engine stops.

I wouldn't want to guess at things without data.

Since you asked though, the part #'s for a 2002 OM612 are:

The o-ring on the moisture sensor (bottom of fuel filter) part #A0279979148. It's called a seal ring and is remarkably expensive for an o-ring. List price is $16.00

The drain screw on the side of the fuel filter is part #A6110780071. It's called a "screw" and is a bargain at list price of $2.40.

Both of these are known to fail and let air enter the system, however air in the system is unlikely to light your CEL, nor cause a no-start problem.

I am confused however because you said that all of the "fuel system components have been replaced"

Are you using a small battery versus the large battery that is supposed to be in the truck?

Starters do not get "fatigue". My Original Starter went for 400k miles and would get used 20 to 30 times a day, five days a week.

Get your codes read and come back to the forum with more info please.

Also why is this "certified" sprinter shop throwing parts at your truck? A reputable shop should eat the cost of parts installed that do not repair the original complaint. After all, you went in there for them to service your vehicle, not take wild guesses and make you pay the bill.

Good luck.

While I agree with much of what you posted I disagree completely with this statement.

expcourier said:

...
The CEL (check engine light) usually only goes on when something that could damage the truck is happening and that is why the engine stops.

...Good luck.

Click to expand...

Mercedes uses the LHM Limp Home Mode AKA Limp in Mode which reduces power in various ways to avoid engine and transmission damage from faulty operating conditions. The MIL Malfunction Indicator Light AKA CEL Check Engine Light may or may not be turned on when the computer reduces power for LHM. The engine stopping suddenly and unexpectedly of itself is enough to trigger the light.

My experience is that the MIL more often readily comes on for emissions related problems. Things like the O2 sensor being out of range (but still working), fuel cap loose, fuel tank vapor containment system faults, glow plug problems, and the like can set the MIL. As long as the engine is operating correctly with no unusual smoke, erratic running, or other symptoms it is not going to harm your engine to run it with the MIL lit. You generally have time measured in days or weeks to get the condition diagnosed. As long as everything is running normally.

I realize that in this thread the starting/stall issues are indicative of abnormal operating so ignoring the light has some risk. I would hate to have someone freak out just because the MIL comes on. As long as everything is running normally there is no reason to panic during a vacation or otherwise jump hurdles to get the vehicle checked right away. My opinion based upon experience so FWIW. vic

correllbil said:

I have some air bubbles in my fuel line when the engine is running. I think I may need to replace the o rings on the fuel line. Does anyone know what the correct size of the O rings are. I suspect the one on the fuel filter. My sprinter is a 2002.

Click to expand...

I have found that they are a CUSTOM SIZE that you cannot get at a hardware store. You can get a multi-pack and find sizes that fit closest, but I haven't had much luck unless I've stacked them along with the OEM o-rings. In my experience, Hengst fuel filters have poor quality control, and the o-rings attached to the fuel lines will not seal up well. Sometimes tightening the water drain TOO tight will cause an air leak. Often the water sensor in the bottom of the filter is not placed correctly, and allows air to siphon in.

Good luck with the hunt. Search the forum for "air in line"

Surlyoldbill from another surlyoldbill....I have just recently finished rebuilding the engine in my sprinter. It had been sitting for about 4 years. The Timing Chaiin Sprocket had dissentigrated and caused some interesting things with the head. I replace the entire head, installed new updated sprocket, new timing chain, fan belt, all filters including the Fuel Filter, and all fluids. I thought the GO5 Antifreeze was supposed to be red or orange but the Zerex that I put in is green just like the the stuff that was in the engine. The engine started eaisly and is running great. I did have to reseat an Injector as it was bubbleing in the oil that I put in the wells and I had a small leak in one injector Inlet that needed a little snugging. I have run the truck up the road a few times but I have to get the tags before I can do a real good road test. I will then make an appointment to get the recall done on the intake manifold. I tried to get the local Mercedes dealer to replace the manifold while I had the engine out but that didn't go over at all. I think that most of the air leaks in the fuel lines have now stopped so I will just keep a watch. Thanks for your help and info.

Billy C.
York, SC

nelsonsprinter:
ag diesel.

a.hayes:
thanks, i'll see about checking those things.

expcourier:
i have no intention of throwing any more parts at this sprinter.

the battery is large, but it is relocated remotely... which makes it a little weaker.

what i mean by "fatigue" with regards to the starter is not overuse, but rather overcranking... like cranking for too long and not giving the starter time to cool down in between. the shop actually blew out the last one by cranking it for too long.

i really agree with your synopsis of the way a "reputable" shop should act... however, i am fearing more and more with each interaction that "reputable" may not be the best description for these guys. they seem to do a lot of "interpreting" the codes that they pull. also, they completely ignored a code that had been pulled previously by the shop before them because they couldn't replicate the results. we will see how they react to getting the van towed back to them in the next few days.

thanks!

casey

Unless they agree on the phone to fix it at no charge, you are better off towing it to McCoy Freightliner or Upscale Automotive

If you've never tried, squirt a little Quick Start or Starter spray into the EGR valve after taking the turbo hose off and try starting it.
If it goes, then drive it to McCoy Freightliner.

nelsonsprinter:
thanks for the advice. we have high hopes for upscale automotive; it sounds like from your experience that they are good at troubleshooting elusive problems... however, our experience with mccoy freightliner has been absolutely terrible. mccoy freightliner were actually the first shop that attempted to fix this problem, and after a bunch of money and frustration, they just GAVE UP and refused to keep working on it because they couldn't figure it out. which, i don't think i need to tell you is completely unacceptable.

let's hope that ag diesel does the right thing and agrees to fix the problem free of charge. after the amount of money they have been paid, it is completely unacceptable for this problem to still be persisting... i suppose we will see. i will definitely update you guys about how they handle the situation.

thanks

casey

correllbil said:

The Timing Chaiin Sprocket had dissentigrated and caused some interesting things with the head. I replace the entire head, installed new updated sprocket, new timing chain, fan belt, all filters including the Fuel Filter, and all fluids.

Click to expand...

I've long been wondering the why of this type failure. I've thought it might be associated with the timing chain drive sprocket slipping on the crankshaft causing loss of timing and valve/piston interference resulting in the broken sprocket. Many instances of harmonic balancer bolt and/or key problems have been reported which could lead to slipping of the timing chain drive sprocket and loss of timing. Did you notice any problem with the harmonic balancer bolt or key while accomplishing your rebuild?