Electrical ghost - no start '03

OK - Here goes nothing, my first post, I'm pretty tech illiterate and definitely Sprinter illiterate....This is absolutely the finest vehicle forum of any kind I have ever seen on the web and so appreciate all of your posts and discussions, they have helped me immensely.

I purchased a '03 3500 series dodge sprinter off the used lot at our local dodge dealership in South Texas about 2.5 years ago along with (thank goodness) the magnum Chrysler backed extended warranty (the motor actually says '02 freightliner). Vehicle in good shape upon purchase with 67,000 miles on it...since then I've put about 30,000 miles on her and during this time have experienced extremely troublesome intermittent no start problems, requiring the vehicle to be towed by AAA RV service to the dealership in Irvine, Ca. who has tried numerous times, with no success, to address the problem. (towed actually 3 times during my ownership - once due to one of the tensioner pulleys for the serpentine belt breaking off in the middle of the cast iron support - the other times due to no start).

The vehicle has been in that Southern California service department at least 9 separate times. I have been fortunate to have been able to drive it there the other 6 times. The dealership keeps the vehicle sometimes for up to 10 days at a time, causing severe inconvenience....it is there as I write this post and has been for the last 2 weeks...after finally getting the service manager on the line yesterday, he states they are totally stumped by this vehicle and cannot trace the problem, referring to it as some sort of electrical ghost -possibly emanating from the starter and/or its wiring, sending wrong signals to the various sensors - (from what I can glean), thereby not allowing the vehicle to start... as mentioned I am Sprinter illiterate as well, but am learning, thnx to this excellent forum. Under the warranty contract, the dealership has replaced the mass air flow sensor, some injectors, "a" or "the" electrical cluster, the intake manifold due to the MB recall, the fuel filter - twice, the fuel pump, the fuel lines and all associated o rings....dealership unequivocally states the motor is fine, as they have been able to start it on occasion with start fluid, although cannot start it now, and that it is not an engine problem but rather some sort of "electrical ghost" problem somewhere disallowing the various sensors to be in sync for vehicle to fire. they have checked and rechecked the cam/crank sensors - all ok...rail pressures and o rings fine they say all fine. battery is new.


A couple of the times it would not start I noticed the 2 preceding days the vehicle was cranking longer than usual to fire...regressing eventually to a weaker crank, no fire, dead new battery.

on other no start occasions I will have driven the vehicle just prior to the no start - running just fine, like a fine swiss watch...stop in the grocery store, come back out - no fire.

Yesterday, I called Chrysler's service contract people and was initially put off & put on lengthy 30 minute hold by an underling waiting for his supervisor to get on the line, who states a liaison between the dealership and me will call me today to somehow intervene and get Chrysler's input, whatever that means.

It is my opinion the dealership is not forthcoming on information insofar as what work they have performed. I notice from other posts that other dealerships detailed on this forum have been more forthcoming with some of you as to codes etc and problem solving. The in-house sprinter fleet-manager merely states that I have a "old vehicle", inferring these problems go with the territory and that they cannot trace the problem having tried "just about everything". At one point he mentioned Chrysler has a "special" case for this vehicle. I have enquired about the special case and get no information as to case number or Chrysler person in charge.

We live in South Tx and have a condo in San Clemente, Ca and we go back and forth fairly regularly by various means....on this last conundrum/tow job we had the vehicle loaded with Christmas presents, firewood, bicycles and camping gear two weeks ago for my 18 yr old daughter and I to drive from Cali via the Grand Canyon to Tx...on the calendar for 6 months, we were so excited and prepped to take out at 4:30 a.m., as the vehicle had been detailed, was running and starting fine the nite before, only to awake disappointedly to a no start. ...I am feeling the dealership simply wants me to go away or have it towed elsewhere to another dealership as the Chrysler underling said was one of my "options".

I love this vehicle having taken it on camping trips to South Padre Island, Baja, Big Bend and Yosemite with no problems. I have performed and continue to perform a "diy" conversion with insulation, panelling, roller shade, hi-dollar constant wired rear view camera, fancy stereo, Aluminess aluminum welded roof rack, 130 watt Kyocera solar panel to two no maintenance 6volt batteries that power the installed inside halogen lights, a fan, inverter, charge computers, cameras, iPods, the 48 quart Engel refrigerator - that I absolutely love, installed a bed, surf racks, afantasta-vent, etc, and IT has become my job to get the vehicle fixed and back in the boonies where it belongs... I am so thankful for your input....any and all thoughts are greatly appreciated. sterling

p.s. a couple of photos of my dream machine attached

I'd say it's absolutely time to get the van into more capable, and less superstitious hands... someone with a DRBIII or a DAD who will tell you exactly what they are doing- perhaps a S. California forum member could make a recommendation. And if I were you I'd be on the phone to Dr. A- You can do a search on here for his number (I don't know him, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't believe in ghosts, at least not of the type mentioned).

I have an '02, and have on occasion had similar no start issues related to fuel filter/ system (the OM 612 seems to be fussier due to the engine mounted "sucker" fuel pump) and a bad cam sensor. But it ain't a ghost, and saying it is just "old" is equally nonsense. Something specific, or a combination of things, is most definitely wrong with your vehicle, and someone with the right knowledge and persistence will be able to fix it.

Btw, is any of your DIY electrical system crossed with the van system, or is it entirely separate run off of the solar array? Mods can certainly result in unintended consequenses, and the Sprinter electrical systems can get grumpy enough on thier own.

Good luck!! (and nice rig by the way.)

Alex

Depending on cause and effect, it may be one of the issues in the "hard to start when hot" thread. Vexed me for a long time. Finally found out I had a bad injector; fuel pressure couldn't get up to acceptable level for computer to allow motor to start. Cold, thicker fuel was fine. After getting up to 180 temp, it wouldn't start again until motor and fuel cooled down.

My recent "no start when cold" problem on my 03 turned out to be a bad injector. I did a simple diy test with some 3/8" Id clear tubing to find the injector that was allowing pressure to bleed off. I found the how to instruction here on the fourm.

Sounds like at least some of the no starts may have been caused by your battery votage dropping down too low. They require a healty charged battery or the computer will not allow it to start.

You could have a cracked flywheel problem that Doktor A has talked about a few times on different posts. It is a problem that plagues our year model. It may be causing the crankshaft sensor to not pick up the engine rotation properly. I have no hands on experience with this, but you may suggest it as something to check.

Doktor A is a great resource! His number is (412) 366-6165

Good Luck
Dan

thank you so much for all of your input...the first thing upon purchasing the vehicle was have a fancy Pioneer stereo with flip out screen with 4 marine speakers and sub...that runs off the engine battery...everything else is run via the solar panel, as well as I know it, and will make sure that is the case

the vehicle was broken into before the solar install and a thief ripped out the headset of the pioneer and that could be a culprit ...will along that it could be the flywheel face plate out of sorts ...which certainly sounds logical..the name of any Southern California sprinter mechanics gurus would be greatly appreciated...Ill report back soon

to be fair if its the fly wheel you would of felt a vibration through the vehcle as if dual mass colapses (common as ) you will get lots of reverberation though vehcle the only part of fly wheel that will stop fireing it on the lead edge there are cut out peices of metal that is picked up from crank sensor to tell ecu where in position the crank is for fireing

Have the dealer call Dr. Andy Bittenbinder: 412-366-6165
He's in Pennsylvania, so plan for east-coast time zones (i.e. OK to call at California 8am, not OK at California 5pm)

See if Chrysler will pay for MB to fix it...

good luck
--dick

autostaretx said:

Have the dealer call Dr. Andy Bittenbinder: 412-366-6165
He's in Pennsylvania, so plan for east-coast time zones (i.e. OK to call at California 8am, not OK at California 5pm)

See if Chrysler will pay for MB to fix it...

good luck
--dick

Click to expand...

+1 It only takes the combination of one right person and one repair to get rid of this nightmare.

The saga continues....today I spoke with Dr. A over the phone and left word with the service manager and the dealership to please have the technician who has been working on my vehicle to pls give Andy a call and go over what has been done to date and share ideas....hoping they will call

shame your not in the uk id fix it for you buddy
i spent the last 13 yrs in a merc dealership and have just branched out on my own ...if you have no luck pm me see what i can do for ya

so very frustrating...dealers "says" the Chrysler Sprinter guru, someone with the last name of Keetch, is working on the vehicle and says he has a new list of codes they will be trying...don't say when, don't respond to my request to have the tech call Dr. A...I have never in my life experienced this kind of vehicle frustration...I am at a loss...CAN ANYONE PLEASE RECOMMEND AN INDEPENDENT SPRINTER MECHANIC LOCATED IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA THAT THEY HAVE DEALT WITH AND FEEL CONFIDENT WITH WORKING ON THE OLDER (O3) MODELS....I really do not know what to do ...vehicle won't start, dealer has had it 10 times over last 18 months, this time now for 3 weeks, rarely return my calls and are little or no help...I AM CONVINCED DODGE/CHRYSLER DO NOT CARE ABOUT HONORING THEIR EXTENDED SERVICE CONTRACTS ON THIS VEHICLE AS THEY NO LONGER SELL THEM..looks like I will have to have it towed back at great expense to my house and sell for scrap...what a joke!

Sterling... saw another post of yours recently- made me wonder what ended up happening with this issue??

A.Hayes said:

Sterling... saw another post of yours recently- made me wonder what ended up happening with this issue??

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Gosh - I am sorry for not getting back...apparently a valve on the hi-pressure rail was sucking air ever so slightly?...really the warranty work by the dodge dealer was a trial by error kind of deal whereby they replaced the mass air flow sensor, the fuel filter twice, fuel lines, manifold was replaced due to the recall, new egr valve, 2 injectors, and??? kind of a goose chase but she is running fine now..thanks for all of your help.

Jumping in late here....do you know which "valve" had the problem? Possible it was a nicked O-ring on either the fuel pressure regulator at the rear of the fuel rail? Or maybe a leak at the fuel pressure sensor at the front of the rail? In either case I'm surprised someone couldn't see a low pressure reading while monitoring fuel pressure while cranking. Sounds to me as if maybe someone at the dealership missed some very basic checking before throwing parts at the problem.

I'd love to hear some specifics as to exactly which part was "leaking", might help us all in the furute. THNX. Glad you're finally up and running properly.

Oldrndrt - Van has been running like a fine swiss watch..now have 106k miles on here...I really believe the so called ghost, termed by the dealer rep who like'd his booze and is no longer at that stealership, altho i like my booze as well..was a culmination of maybe a couple of "turd hunts" going on at the same time...their 2 fuel filter replacements were conducted using the worm gear clamps that I believe allowed for air suck and the 1 & 2 injectors were both replaced at different times, idk....the rail pressure valve chingadera? i wish I knew.,..as of now, knock on wood, me, myself, and I, have replaced the fuel filter ala DIY, changed the oil and oil filter DIY, replaced the EGR & gasket DIY, helped with the replacement of a new starter and 150 Bosch alternator, ...eyeball the fuel lines and use my ingenuity scan tool frequently and am altogether totally more intuned to this vehicle thanks to this forum...Mil Gracias to all!

next on the list is a DIY injector test for the heck of it!!!

sterling said:

Oldrndrt - Van has been running like a fine swiss watch..now have 106k miles on here...I really believe the so called ghost, termed by the dealer rep who like'd his booze and is no longer at that stealership, altho i like my booze as well..was a culmination of maybe a couple of "turd hunts" going on at the same time...their 2 fuel filter replacements were conducted using the worm gear clamps that I believe allowed for air suck and the 1 & 2 injectors were both replaced at different times, idk....the rail pressure valve chingadera? i wish I knew.,..as of now, knock on wood, me, myself, and I, have replaced the fuel filter ala DIY, changed the oil and oil filter DIY, replaced the EGR & gasket DIY, helped with the replacement of a new starter and 150 Bosch alternator, ...eyeball the fuel lines and use my ingenuity scan tool frequently and am altogether totally more intuned to this vehicle thanks to this forum...Mil Gracias to all!

next on the list is a DIY injector test for the heck of it!!!

Click to expand...

you simply cannot beat this vehicle if you have a love of the great outdoors! Not to be a snob, but can we have a TIN only Sprinter-fest in the middle of this great country...My vote is Amarillo, T E X A S, this spring?

so what happened with the no start. i'm haveing a similar problem with my 04. for now i can start mine manually... just a matter of jumping the backside of the ignition. annoying but works.

When i turn the ignition to start it gives appox. 11.3v in pulses(relay) also, i've tried 3 different relays on no. 12. used to work for a few months, progressivly gotten worse. coming out the back is a violet and a black and gold. these don't show voltage at all, the little terminals do. stumped.

i'm leaning toward bad ignition. maybe i'll install a push start.

forgot to mention, i'm in oc. also have a dad if you wanna use it let me know.

blacksmoke said:

so what happened with the no start. i'm haveing a similar problem with my 04. for now i can start mine manually... just a matter of jumping the backside of the ignition. annoying but works.

When i turn the ignition to start it gives appox. 11.3v in pulses(relay) also, i've tried 3 different relays on no. 12. used to work for a few months, progressivly gotten worse. coming out the back is a violet and a black and gold. these don't show voltage at all, the little terminals do. stumped.

i'm leaning toward bad ignition. maybe i'll install a push start.

Click to expand...

Gosh Blacksmoke - I wish I could be more specific...know nothing about the ignition or relays...looking back I feel we were sucking air from poor connections to the fuel filter, stupid worm screw clamps on the fuel line, and some kind of valve on back of rail (way towards bulkhead) had a lousy o-ring plus a couple of bad injectors...the stealership was totally inept and could have really cared less..my thoughts that with the Chrysler extended warranty -they felt they could throw parts at it and Mama - mopar would pay; wish I could be more helpful

Hi, I'm also having a no start issue with my 2003. I'm wondering if the part that Sterling describes is replaceable without any Mercedes computer software recalibration. I've also got a DAD from Andy Bittenbinder. Have used it a few times and as BLACKSMOKE am willing to help someone with diagnosis of sprinter problems. I repaired two injector seal leaks ( black death ), so I know that I can get this fixed. Looking for some advice on if I should gamble on crank position sensor or cam position sensors from Europarts SD. They are inexpensive compared to dealer price. Does anyone know how to check? Is this info in a manual somewhere? John