Holding tanks

Inspector

2012 Roadtrek Agile
Lately we have had weather in the 20's so I started to get concerned about the water tank and holdiing tanks/piping. The tanks have zero insulation from a underbody inspection. Has anyone insulated the exposed areas? I even entertained the self adhesive sound deadening mats that are usually stuck to the interior areas as a easily applied alternative. Using the camper every few days makes draining the tanks a chore. Any thoughts?
 

icarus

Well-known member
Do a search on this site for my indoor water tank add on that allows you to use the van water in quite cold temps.

Icarus
 

mowog

Member
Icarus: could you post a link to your winter water thread?

I've tried search and looked through most of your threads (you have like 500) and I can't find the link to what you did for winter.

Thanks, Bob
 

Inspector

2012 Roadtrek Agile
The closest I got was antifreeze being added through a retro-fitted "T" fitting. Is there a specific title we should use?
 

icarus

Well-known member
I can't find the link either. Perhaps if I get time i will re write it. In essence it is a second tank, in the cabinet on the right foot stool. (10 gallons) I have re routed the water lines so that there are no under the vehicle water lines. ( I valve off and drain the kitchen water and use the bath. As long as you cover the water heater while driving with a foam cover, you can use hot water in very low temps.

The ten gallon tank plus the six in the water heater gives plenty for a couple of days depending on how you shower. One also has to use anti freeze in the drains.

Icarus

Ps remember that under the vehicle when you drive is subject to great wind chill, so even insulating the tanks and the water lines is not going to be very effective if it is unite cold and you drive. Also realize that the PEX tubing can take a freeze with out damage,, but the fittings can't.

The other thing you have to pay attention to is the water filter on the pump, even if drain the water tank and the lines, water collects in the filter housing and can be damaged (easily) if it freezes.

Icarus
 
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israndy

2007 LTV Serenity
Lately we have had weather in the 20's so I started to get concerned about the water tank and holdiing tanks/piping. The tanks have zero insulation [...] Any thoughts?
I have an indoor water tank between the rear wheels and plumbing that runs between the shower and the tank also indoor, the drain for grey is behind the rear wheel and the pipe runs inside until right above the tank and then drops thru the floor to the tank outside. The same for the toilet, right above the tank, and drops right in. So if the outside tank is frozen, new water lands on top. I guess I'll be bummed if the freezing expands the tanks horizontally and they leak but I have not been as quick to empty them as I am to dump the water tank when freezing occurs. If the water tank leaks indoors it will be a much worse cleanup. I had the heat on the last two nights to keep from freezing, but am definitely going to freezing conditions and won't be plugging in to power over xmas so I am dumping the water tank right now. Did the same on my way into Colorado on my x-country trip in October when they had that freak snow storm. I then dumped the black and grey when I got back home.

Does the Roadtrek really have the water tank on the outside? Seems rather limiting... I guess many RVs are not really winter vehicles, but these Sprinters are daily drivers. Although if the tank leaks and it's outside you don't ruin your Sprinter.

-Randy
 

Inspector

2012 Roadtrek Agile
I know the tanks under our Agile are exposed to the temps but I can't speak for others. I'm seriously thinking of adding the self adhesive sound deadening to afford some protection.
 

icarus

Well-known member
No offense, but I think you are wasting your time,, and money. Consider the R-value of your sound deadening,, and then try to figure out how to actually get it to stick on all sides. It really is a matter of figuring the BTU loss from the tank given any wind drawing those BTUs off and you will soon realize that it is going to be really hard to keep the water tank from freezing. And then you have the problem of the water lines that are under the van. RT does it's plumbing as cheap as possible, with the bulk of it under the van, including the suction line from the tank to the pump, the hot and cold to and from the water heater and to the kitchen sink. Once again, even with proper insulation, these are all exposed to the air and even at say 25F, driving 60 mph will freeze them. ( I know,, I have done it!)

My indoor water tank change, eliminates the under the vehicle water lines (or in the case of the kitchen sink and suction line) valves them off so that they are dry even while I have running water in the toilet, shower and hot water heater. I cover the water heater while driving with a foam cover replacing the grill when it is cold. The water heater it self is insulated, so if you heat it before you drive, shut it off, cover the face (including the PRV and drain/anode as they are giant heat sinks!) You can drive all day and the water heater won't freeze.


The grey and black tanks are not a problem by adding a good quantity of potable anti freeze every time you drain some into the tank. You have to keep the concentration fairly high to prevent them from freezing, but even mixed with water, the grey and black tanks will only slush up, and will take that without damage. The macerator pump itself should have a ration of pure anti freeze poured in after draining so that the pump housing won't freeze,, and expensive repair.
Good luck,

Icarus
 
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israndy

2007 LTV Serenity
I know the tanks under our Agile are exposed to the temps but I can't speak for others. I'm seriously thinking of adding the self adhesive sound deadening to afford some protection.
I actually found some 12V heat pads for RV tanks for cheap on eBay, but then my tanks are only 12 gallons. They have thermostats so they don't run unless it is freezing. I just need to find a lighted switch and a warm day to install them. This only helps the outside and the valve can also freeze so mostly useful in keeping the tank from freezing, but not allowing dumping in freezing conditions. There is heated tape too that would allow dumping too as all the lines would be heated. The Gulfstream has almost no plumbing, just valves on the tanks.

I did get a REALLY snarky response from the Roadtrek rep when I asked about freezing conditions. It does seem that they expect you to winterize, but that seems wrong when you could just move stuff inside like my Gulfstream has, like PleaseureWay has. I think Leisure Travel has outside plumbing, the ptrap for the shower is definitely in the wind.

Looks like I dumped my water for nothing, it was not freezing over xmas, but there is all of winter yet to come so perhaps I'll leave it for now...

-Randy
 

Inspector

2012 Roadtrek Agile
I'm disappointed in Roadtrek not taking cold weather into consideration at the time of construction; how easy it would be to insulate the plumbing at the time. I'm sure most of the campers are used year round, not just summer months. So short sighted.

The heated mats and tape would work, are all the areas accessible? I hadn't really thought about the macerator freezinig but I bet the impeller housing would be damaged. Arrrgh..:yell:
 

icarus

Well-known member
Like I said, the macerator is the easiest thing to protect. When you empty the tanks, you can pour a good quantity of antifreeze down the drain with the drain valves open. Then close the drain valve. Then every time you put waste down the drain pour it with anti freeze, then when it is time to drain, the valves should be free, pull the valves pump and repeat.

Icarus
 

Cheryl

New member
Has anyone invented an emergency dumping system if the macerator pump doesn't work?
Cheryl
09 RS Adventurous
 

Inspector

2012 Roadtrek Agile
I'm brand new with thisi but what I've seen there is a regular pipe cap that can be removed to drain the tanks incase there is a pump failure. Probably not the most fun chore but there is a backup. If I am incorrect I hope the more experienced members will chime in.
 

gte

2008 RS
I have wondered about having most of the bottom of my RS spray foamed with 3-4 inches of foam. It would keep the floors warmer and the pipes and tanks from freezing if the temps drop below 32 at night and days are cold too. I would have to be careful not to foam anything that gets hot and needs to move. Also wold need to be able to get to the sewer clean out. is this a crazy idea or might it help? I know I might have to redo it periodically too.
Gary
2008 RS
 

icarus

Well-known member
I don't think it a good idea. I think it would complicate all kinds of service issues going forward in the vehicle,, not just the RV. In the grand scheme, put a good rug and pad down, and do silver bubble wrap on the windows would save more energy.

Icarus
 

israndy

2007 LTV Serenity
I have wondered about having most of the bottom of my RS spray foamed with 3-4 inches of foam. It would keep the floors warmer and the pipes and tanks from freezing if the temps drop below 32 at night and days are cold too. I would have to be careful not to foam anything that gets hot and needs to move. Also wold need to be able to get to the sewer clean out. is this a crazy idea or might it help? I know I might have to redo it periodically too.
Gary
2008 RS
It may not work out so well as without a source of heat the tanks will still eventually freeze. Most under bellies that can handle the cold do it by encapsulating the tanks and letting exhaust heat the area. Of course that spray may make the floors less cold, that would help your feet and the folks at Leisure Travel seem to spray their newer tanks.

If you go to an RV park where freezing occurs you will see they all have skirts to keep the cold air from blowing under and removing any heat down there. You may be on to something. Just might be worth adding heating to the tanks before sealing them in spray foam.

-Randy
 

Inspector

2012 Roadtrek Agile
On the surface the foam idea sounds resonable but if you ever have to get to a component you'll regret ever encapsulating things. If you could spray just the floor and perhaps the tank sides/bottoms so individual items can still be removed, maybe. That expanding foam is a bear to remove. Just my 2cts.
 

gte

2008 RS
Thanks for all you comments. I kind of expected to hear what you all said and agree but thought I would run it up the pole anyway. My floors do get cold and a rug helps but I did wonder about insulating just the floor underneath. Again the issue of coverage and sensitive components probably makes even this a bad idea. Oh well, but thanks again.
Gary
2008 RS
 

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