Sprinters, Solar Panel Controlers and EMP

psalm66

Member
With the recent news about EMP (ElectroMagnetic Pulse) and the damage one high atmospheric nuclear explosion could do to electronic components, I wonder: is there any way to safeguard (shield) solar panel controllers (such as Blue Sky Solar Boost controllers) so they would survive such an event?
 

icarus

Well-known member
I think your idea is a solution in search of a problem!

Having installed a number of off grid PV systems, (including a number of BS controllers) worrying about EMP is not something I would do. Lightning events are another matter, and there is little you can do about it.

Icarus

A high level atomic blast,, your Bluesky controller would likely be the least of your worries!
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
With the recent news about EMP (ElectroMagnetic Pulse)
What recent news?
EMP has been a "factor" since the 1950s, and it's only worth planning for it if you're exceedingly paranoid.

Current commercial solar cell arrays would probably not survive such an event.
The cell-to-cell wiring (and the contacts on the faces of the cells themselves) will act as small (but adequate) antennas *begging* the pulse to enter and fry the cells. Whether or not it also damages the rest of the system (controller, etc) is actually far easier to design against: shield all cables in separately grounded metal conduits, put good inductors in series with the power feeds, shunt both ends of the inductors to ground (metal frame) through capacitors (we're trying to eat the "pulse" by reshaping it to a rounded-ends hump). Also shunt the two feed wires to *each other* through bipolar capacitors. (bipolar, since you don't know which side of the lines will have the "positive" side of the pulse).

It really is exactly the same as lightning protection... a lightning strike within 100 feet will easily exceed any human airburst EMP that's far enough away to not kill you by the gamma radiation.

added: you could boost the solar panel's survivability by encasing it in a fully-surrounding metal grid (think copper-wire window screens). That will create a Faraday cage, and the Pulse's electrons will remain on the outer surface instead of going into the box to hurt the cells.
The screening will, of course, be a direct performance hit on your panel's output, since it will be a 10 to 20% shadow across the entire array. Think "cloudy day charging"... every day.

--dick
p.s. there are many companies who would be *happy* to install/modify your systems for EMP protection. Googling finds them. One example is: http://www.protectiongroup.com/LP/EMP3

p.p.s. This site: http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html and this page: http://www.futurescience.com/emp/E1-E2-E3.html has a relatively decent run-down on "home made" EMP protection. An E1 pulse of 50,000 volts per meter means that a 4 inch piece of wire is capable of picking up 5,000 volts ... so your inter-cell protection would have to be able to handle that. The site suggests coarse aluminum screening for shielding the cell array, but i'd opt for a finer grid and copper's always nicer.
Where you live will have an effect... if you expect Enemy Action, assume that it will be aimed at the highly populated areas, probably ranging from Wash DC to Boston. If you're in mid-Montana, you probably won't be directly targeted by a limited EMP attack at all.
 
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Oldfartt

Active member
Dick, you beat me to it....

EMP is not worth worrying about. The recent "news" is political scare mongering.

If you wish to protect your Sprinter, enclose it in a Faraday Shield, ie a metal sided metal roofed, metal floored garage, or outside in a fine wire cage, with all wires into and out of protected with RF suppression components and never take it out of the garage.

Cheers

Ross
 

230321a

Member
What recent news?
EMP has been a "factor" since the 1950s, and it's only worth planning for it if you're exceedingly paranoid.

Current commercial solar cell arrays would probably not survive such an event.
The cell-to-cell wiring (and the contacts on the faces of the cells themselves) will act as small (but adequate) antennas *begging* the pulse to enter and fry the cells. Whether or not it also damages the rest of the system (controller, etc) is actually far easier to design against: shield all cables in separately grounded metal conduits, put good inductors in series with the power feeds, shunt both ends of the inductors to ground (metal frame) through capacitors (we're trying to eat the "pulse" by reshaping it to a rounded-ends hump). Also shunt the two feed wires to *each other* through bipolar capacitors. (bipolar, since you don't know which side of the lines will have the "positive" side of the pulse).

It really is exactly the same as lightning protection... a lightning strike within 100 feet will easily exceed any human airburst EMP that's far enough away to not kill you by the gamma radiation.

added: you could boost the solar panel's survivability by encasing it in a fully-surrounding metal grid (think copper-wire window screens). That will create a Faraday cage, and the Pulse's electrons will remain on the outer surface instead of going into the box to hurt the cells.
The screening will, of course, be a direct performance hit on your panel's output, since it will be a 10 to 20% shadow across the entire array. Think "cloudy day charging"... every day.

--dick
p.s. there are many companies who would be *happy* to install/modify your systems for EMP protection. Googling finds them. One example is: http://www.protectiongroup.com/LP/EMP3
:hmmm:I think he is pulling our leg. But, I do like your answere too the solution.:smilewink:
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
Dick, you beat me to it....

EMP is not worth worrying about. The recent "news" is political scare mongering.

If you wish to protect your Sprinter, enclose it in a Faraday Shield, ie a metal sided metal roofed, metal floored garage, or outside in a fine wire cage, with all wires into and out of protected with RF suppression components and never take it out of the garage.

Cheers

Ross
...but then, how well will the solar work... :thinking:
 

larry8061

New member
What if........... you put the controller in a 3" thick lead box........... used some 00 cable to ground it to the ground via say a 1.5" 6' long steel stake? You could drive as far as the amount of cable you wanted to buy! (cut down on diesel fuel and all those damn filters........ and if it is a newer model all but eliminate the DEF need!

Larry:thumbup:
 

icarus

Well-known member
Wrap the controller in a copper wire screen cage, ground that to the vehicle, and then a ground strap. Bet it won't work though!

Icarus
 

Oldfartt

Active member
What if........... you put the controller in a 3" thick lead box........... used some 00 cable to ground it to the ground via say a 1.5" 6' long steel stake? You could drive as far as the amount of cable you wanted to buy! (cut down on diesel fuel and all those damn filters........ and if it is a newer model all but eliminate the DEF need!

Larry:thumbup:
When you get to the end of the cable the van would go round and round the stake and you would end up back where you started.:lol:

lead box not necessary, unless you want to go fishing, then the EMP could melt the lead and then you can make fishing sinkers out of it.:thumbup: The fish of course would be easy to catch as after an EMP incident they would be stunned and would float to the surface, where they could be scooped with a net from your power boat, if it was still working.... Depending on how close you were to to the EMP incident you may find that you do not even have to cook the fish.


Cheers

Ross
 

Thanasis

Active member
With the recent news about EMP (ElectroMagnetic Pulse) and the damage one high atmospheric nuclear explosion could do to electronic components, I wonder: is there any way to safeguard (shield) solar panel controllers (such as Blue Sky Solar Boost controllers) so they would survive such an event?
If you haven't already, consider the strong possibility that those who ignite public concerns by reincarnating such scenarios while campaigning for public office, may have alterior motives, such as build up public support to start another war and/or boost military spending. My :2cents:
 

mendonsy

Member
Wrap the controller in a copper wire screen cage, ground that to the vehicle, and then a ground strap. Bet it won't work though!

Icarus
It might work if you have it tied to a copper stake driven 6' into the ground. It's kinda hard to drive it that way though! :eek::lol:
 

MillionMileSprinter

Millionmilesprinter.com
It might work if you have it tied to a copper stake driven 6' into the ground. It's kinda hard to drive it that way though! :eek::lol:
Drive what? The stake or the Sprinter? For the stake this is all you need-:bash:
And I guess that would also be what you'd want to use if you tried to drive a Sprinter that was staked to the ground-:bash:
:professor:
 

psalm66

Member
Autostaretx - good reply and thanks for staying on topic.

The futurescience.com web site is one I have been reading, among others. The scenario of a single high altitude nuc blast over Nebraska taking out almost all electronics in the USA via EMP is not paranoia; it is real. That's what makes certain rogue states so dangerous and why we are so intent on having a defensive missile shield.

Well, I'm particularly interested in the effect on a Sprinter and its systems. Good point on the wiring config in the solar panels - hadn't thought of that. Also, it may be that the Sprinters would be particularly vulnerable given the extensive electronics. For example, would the key even work (anticipating pundits: here, starting the car) after an EMP?

What I read indicates EMP is quite different from lightning and there are E!, E2 and E3 components of EMP but I want to focus on Sprinters! http://www.futurescience.com/emp.html has many insights to all this, as you mantioned, and the hyperlinks would even keep our Tasmanian friend busy for a while! :cheers:


What recent news?
EMP has been a "factor" since the 1950s, and it's only worth planning for it if you're exceedingly paranoid.

Current commercial solar cell arrays would probably not survive such an event.
The cell-to-cell wiring (and the contacts on the faces of the cells themselves) will act as small (but adequate) antennas *begging* the pulse to enter and fry the cells. Whether or not it also damages the rest of the system (controller, etc) is actually far easier to design against: shield all cables in separately grounded metal conduits, put good inductors in series with the power feeds, shunt both ends of the inductors to ground (metal frame) through capacitors (we're trying to eat the "pulse" by reshaping it to a rounded-ends hump). Also shunt the two feed wires to *each other* through bipolar capacitors. (bipolar, since you don't know which side of the lines will have the "positive" side of the pulse).

It really is exactly the same as lightning protection... a lightning strike within 100 feet will easily exceed any human airburst EMP that's far enough away to not kill you by the gamma radiation.

added: you could boost the solar panel's survivability by encasing it in a fully-surrounding metal grid (think copper-wire window screens). That will create a Faraday cage, and the Pulse's electrons will remain on the outer surface instead of going into the box to hurt the cells.
The screening will, of course, be a direct performance hit on your panel's output, since it will be a 10 to 20% shadow across the entire array. Think "cloudy day charging"... every day.

--dick
p.s. there are many companies who would be *happy* to install/modify your systems for EMP protection. Googling finds them. One example is: http://www.protectiongroup.com/LP/EMP3

p.p.s. This site: http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html and this page: http://www.futurescience.com/emp/E1-E2-E3.html has a relatively decent run-down on "home made" EMP protection. An E1 pulse of 50,000 volts per meter means that a 4 inch piece of wire is capable of picking up 5,000 volts ... so your inter-cell protection would have to be able to handle that. The site suggests coarse aluminum screening for shielding the cell array, but i'd opt for a finer grid and copper's always nicer.
Where you live will have an effect... if you expect Enemy Action, assume that it will be aimed at the highly populated areas, probably ranging from Wash DC to Boston. If you're in mid-Montana, you probably won't be directly targeted by a limited EMP attack at all.
 

icarus

Well-known member
Like I said before, who cares about your sprinter PV if there is a nuke attack? Seems like we might have bigger issues to deal with.

Icarus
 

230321a

Member
Like I said before, who cares about your sprinter PV if there is a nuke attack? Seems like we might have bigger issues to deal with.

Icarus
That is the right answer, to the what if question.

On PV power: Always known that for regional grid hook-up they are a very stupid idea with many frailties. If the morons have the power to insist that we don't use what is under our feet then the only simple technology today is residential wind generators. Same principle for heating water, residential H2O, solar panels.

EMP havoc when used against adversaries has been known for a very long time. I worked at an Army Proving Ground where very smart people worked on/tested weapons programs using EMP, during the 90's.

One of my favorites is http://www.teslasociety.com/biography.htm
Background Rumor http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=10836
Mr Graham http://www.empcommission.org/docs/GRAHAMtestimony10JULY2008.pdf
Pravda USSR http://english.pravda.ru/science/tech/04-09-2008/106296-electromagnetic_super_weapon-0/
Testing, Testing http://www.futurescience.com/emp/test184.html
Just for Giggles http://www.tldm.org/news8/sovietelectromagneticattacksonunitedstates.htm
 
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autostaretx

Erratic Member
psalm66 said:
I'm particularly interested in the effect on a Sprinter and its systems.
But your question only asked about solar systems.

Most *gasoline* car electronics are actually pretty well shielded/designed to survive working in close proximity to RFI and (small) EMPs... namely the spark plug voltages and spikes trying to infiltrate every piece of wire under the hood.

But the Sprinter is a diesel (no high voltage sparks), so who knows if they applied the same care to its design.
(i suspect so, since in the rest of the world gas/petrol engines are available).

Will it start after an EMP?
Due to the RF pickup antenna that surrounds the key slot and the SKREEM listening to it... i'd be very surprised if it did.

But so what if it did?
Since US fuel pumps require electricity to run (unlike African pumps, which have manual pumping handles as a fall-back), you're limited to a 500 mile range until fuel distribution systems return to a vague degree of "normal". Lots of time to locate garaged-in-steel Sprinters to "borrow" parts from.

I note that the EMP sites mention SCUD missles as a weapon system (launched from ships)... well, that ship had better have wheels, since the best of the SCUDs only has a 500km (300 miles) range. Like i said: they'll hit east coast cities (gee, you're in Rhode Island). Nebraska's probably safe for a while.

If i were to choose an EMP-safe(ish) vehicle, i'd go for a pre-1973 (pre-1968 is better) VW bus or a pre-1968 diesel LandRover (with a "spares kit", which includes handy things like a spare axle).
If i were trying to choose an EMP-safe *technology*, i wouldn't go for solar... i'd find running water and tap its power (via waterwheels) to help keep things going.

--dick
 

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