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dukepilot
12-08-2011, 07:06 PM
Here is some interesting new technology, currently in field testing. A non-catalytic diesel particulate removal system that creates zero exhaust backpressure http://www.eetds.com/technology/

Hopefully they will produce retro-fit kits for existing vehicles but they probably have their eye on licensing this technology to OEMs for new vehicles.

piper1
12-08-2011, 07:39 PM
Beyond cool! Now if someone could find a way to cheply control NOx without EGR the diesel engine would be saved!

Nice find duke!

mendonsy
12-08-2011, 08:25 PM
That sounds like a really good idea. I hope it works out during testing. :clapping:

flman
12-08-2011, 08:53 PM
I am not sure that big oil is going to like this because we would be able to burn alternate fuels, and the EPA, CARB and other non accountable agencies are controlled by big oil money as well. :thinking:

Colorado_Al
12-08-2011, 09:17 PM
From the site:
"Target applications for the PlasmaClean System are focusing on Retrofit Opportunities of existing engines in both on-road and off-road applications."

dukepilot
12-08-2011, 10:09 PM
From the site:
"Target applications for the PlasmaClean System are focusing on Retrofit Opportunities of existing engines in both on-road and off-road applications."

Good! A retrofit should include ECU changes to disable regeneration and to change boost and injector timing to compensate for reduced backpressure from eliminating the DPF.

dukepilot
12-08-2011, 10:19 PM
Beyond cool! Now if someone could find a way to cheply control NOx without EGR the diesel engine would be saved!

Nice find duke!

Looks like Alcohol/Water Injection potentially reduces nitrogen oxide emissions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines) To me, this approach makes more sense than recirculating exhaust gases. EGR doesn't require the driver to do anything until the EGR valve and cooler get clogged, then the dealers make money. Water/Alcohol injection requires vehicle owners to keep the tank filled. Probably will never get approved as an emissions control device for that reason.

icarus
12-08-2011, 10:50 PM
Doesn't ad-blue require driver input of the solution?

That shouldn't be an impediment to adoption.

Icarus

dukepilot
12-08-2011, 11:28 PM
Doesn't ad-blue require driver input of the solution?

That shouldn't be an impediment to adoption.

Icarus

True, but the alcohol/water mix will require more frequent attention. Depending on the size of the tank, it may need to be topped off daily compared to many miles per tank of DEF fluid.

flman
12-09-2011, 09:59 AM
Probably will never get approved as an emissions control device for that reason.

Why, they could just implement the same devices that shut down the vehicle if the DEF is not filled?

dukepilot
12-09-2011, 03:02 PM
Why, they could just implement the same devices that shut down the vehicle if the DEF is not filled?

I can't answer the question why the OEMs don't use water/alcohol injection in place of EGR if it effectively reduces NOx and soot. It could be cost, consumer acceptance or it could be that the OEMs are just stuck in an EGR/DPF rut because of their investment this technology. Or it could be that it just isn't effective enough at reducing emissions.

Along with this Plasma Clean zapper and an effective water/alcohol injection system, we could actually have emission controls that are simple to maintain and increase performance and fuel economy. In today's world maybe that makes too much sense to be acceptable.

flman, maybe you're right about big oil in your earlier post. I would add big car companies too. The existence of EGR/DPF is a big money maker for them. So with big oil, big car companies, and big government in charge, we get stuck with massively complicated cars that don't last as long as they should.

jmoller99
12-09-2011, 05:20 PM
Interesting website. There is a technology called Electrocoagulation that is being used by some processing plants to remove pollutants from water (without use of chemicals) that is like this in concept. In the case of Electrocoagulation, the pollutants cling together (coagulate) and can be precipitated out. I suspect that the technology is trying to do the same thing - ie, turn the exhaust gases into condensed particles that don't float off into the atmosphere.

If you say that would leave piles of particles all over the roads, then I ask you 'where are the particles of rubber that wear off of your tires as you drive?'. My tires always wear out (along with millions of other tires running up and down our roads), and yet I have never seen any residue from the the tires anywhere I drive.

This concept make some sense to me and if you could find rods that did not dissolve over time, it might really work well.

flman
12-09-2011, 07:29 PM
I can't answer the question why the OEMs don't use water/alcohol injection in place of EGR if it effectively reduces NOx and soot. It could be cost, consumer acceptance or it could be that the OEMs are just stuck in an EGR/DPF rut because of their investment this technology. Or it could be that it just isn't effective enough at reducing emissions.



Water/Alcohol injection requires vehicle owners to keep the tank filled. Probably will never get approved as an emissions control device for that reason.

My point was that the DEF tank must be filled or the vehicle will not start, the same could be done with the water/alcohol tank.

dukepilot
12-09-2011, 07:46 PM
My point was that the DEF tank must be filled or the vehicle will not start, the same could be done with the water/alcohol tank.

Yes, that could easily be done. I'm just wondering why the OEMs prefer EGR to this. It is not new technology, been used for years in other applications.

jdcaples
12-09-2011, 09:52 PM
Like Mark Felt said to Bob Woodward, "follow the money."

-Jon

dukepilot
12-09-2011, 11:21 PM
Bye-bye EGR, hello water/alcohol injection. I'll post my results when I'm done.

8string
12-10-2011, 11:26 AM
Sounds like a great product once they get it to market. I'd certainly be interested in retrofitting at least my TDI to start with.

Q: If you don't delete the DPF, how often are you changing out your synth oil? Sooner the mfg. recommendations? I've been a bit careless with my changes.

dukepilot
12-11-2011, 03:01 PM
Sounds like a great product once they get it to market. I'd certainly be interested in retrofitting at least my TDI to start with.

Q: If you don't delete the DPF, how often are you changing out your synth oil? Sooner the mfg. recommendations? I've been a bit careless with my changes.

You should stick to factory recommended intervals for oil/filter changes. I would not go beyond what is recommended without first having a used oil analysis done to determine whether it is OK.