Brake Issue! 2007 NCV3 with 41,000 miles

Expert Marine

Electronics
Last night I was exiting the freeway and when I tried to use the foot brake it didn't push in and the van kept going! It took three times before it finally depressed and I got the abs to kick on.

Talk about making my heart skip a beat! Fortunately no one was in front of me!

Has Anyone had a similar issue?
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
I drive the same model year, nearly 43,000 miles, never had anything like that happen.

I did flush my brake fluid in 2009 and now I do it annually; just a data point. Brake fluid attracts moisture - and while many members have never flushed their brake fluid and never had a problem - if you're one of the rare cases, well, moisture in the brake fluid has a potential for making exciting times.

-Jon
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Quick tip: Tap your foot brake three times, and the brake stop switch will kick in for full brake pressure.
I concur with Jon brake fluid viscosity may be faltering..Time for a brake fluid flush and look at brake pads for glazing/contaminates build up.
Richard
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
Quick tip: Tap your foot brake three times, and the brake stop switch will kick in for full brake pressure.
I concur with Jon brake fluid viscosity may be faltering..Time for a brake fluid flush and look at brake pads for glazing/contaminates build up.
Richard
Does the break stop switch kick in for one stop or for the duration of the trip (engine off)?
 
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sailquik

Well-known member
Hi Expert Marine,
You may have the fluid, but do you have the MB SDS/or other diagnostic tool neded to
perform a complete brake system flush including the ABS/traction control module?
Better to have this performed by a dealer with all the correct tools.
Roger
 

Expert Marine

Electronics
Hi Expert Marine,
You may have the fluid, but do you have the MB SDS/or other diagnostic tool neded to
perform a complete brake system flush including the ABS/traction control module?
Better to have this performed by a dealer with all the correct tools.
Roger
Has anyone here done their own flush's?

Whats the Diagnostic tool good for on a brake flush? I'm more of a DIY type of guy, but am open to convincing.

Please convince me.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Does the break stop switch lick in for one stop or for the duration of the trip (engine off)?
Not 100% sure how to explain this, Mercedes has a mechanical and electronic issue fault with ABS and ATV braking systems. but it's common in Toyota as well.
It comes down to age and maintenance schedules, as to how the electronic brake force pulse signal works when breaking in multie pressure pulses between each wheel.
Some of the older tins had a vacuum problem with the master cylinder up until 2004 Mercedes upgraded this from the 4 series Sprinter.
There have been recalls but not on the Sprinters Basically its a maintenance issue that the engineers may never have taken into considerations as to not maintaining the brake system,over long extended periods with varying road and operational condition of X= unknown.
Diagnostic codes reveal in part Code P1234-128 stored-set valve B96 Pedal valve sensor
AntiLockBrakeController.gif

Anti-lock-brake-system-ABS-codes-and-diagnosis-table-1 copy.jpg

20090805_BrakeFailures.jpg
Internal Mercedes workshop designated prefix listings are extensive, to component check lists.
Life is not easy with Sprinters. but it does make sense if you understand how Mercedes works with maintenance schedules.
Richard

 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
Has anyone here done their own flush's?

Whats the Diagnostic tool good for on a brake flush? I'm more of a DIY type of guy, but am open to convincing.

Please convince me.
I do my own annually. I was there when Bruce (bblessing) did one on his 2008.

I used StarMOBILE to actuate the ABS module (burns a liter of brake fluid), after a traditional bleed is performed.

There isn't an "affordable" scan tool that will do this. StarMOBILE, WiTECH or MB SDS are the only ones we know for a fact flush all the valves in the ABS system.

You can do a traditional bleed, then go for a spirited romp on a gravel road, force the ABS system into activation and then do another traditional bleed....

... but getting most of the fluid out - just bleeding the lines and calipers - is better than nothing at all.

-Jon
 
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SMBReno

2010 Roadtrek SS Agile
I had a similar problem which was caused by a vacuum booster check valve failure, although my brake failure did not self correct. This inexpensive plastic part maintains vacuum when power is off. If it fails, you only have manual brakes, and very little braking power. I suppose an intermittent leak could manifest itself this way if this is not a brake fluid issue. Check the hose connection to the valve.
 

JY Appliance

New member
I just changed my 77k mile 3500 sprinter brakes for the 2nd time.The First time I did this was around 40k miles sensor came on pad low, I changed all 8 pads and put new rotors all around. This time I changed just front pads with the orig set of rotors that i cut just lightly to cut off the outer edge and cutthe glaze off. I pushed back the pistons as usual , mounted everything , pumped the brakes, all good. i knew i needed to do the rears but ran out of sun light. Next day truck had a soft low peddel, spungy, no braking power. I replaced the rears the next day, new pads and the first set of rotors slightly cut. Pumped peddle hard to reset pads. But still when van is running, peddle is soft , low spungy. sinks when you stand on it. I bled the fronts even though I never opened up the fluid system. still same thing. I did not have a problem the first time I changed the brakes. But then I did all 4at the same time with new rotors. I have a starscan , whats up with what I read on prev post about reseting ABS when changing fluid??? Did i screw up master or abs peportionoing valve when I just did the fronts one day then the rear the next.? Did i drive back the pistons in the calapers too fast and f sonething up? God I hate this van. Problems since day one.
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
<snip> I have a starscan , whats up with what I read on prev post about reseting ABS when changing fluid??? Did i screw up master or abs peportionoing valve when I just did the fronts one day then the rear the next.? Did i drive back the pistons in the calapers too fast and f sonething up? God I hate this van. Problems since day one.
Most importantly: you didn't mess up. If the pedal feels mushy the problem isn't in the complexity of the van's "advanced technology."

A little more detail:

You didn't screw up the anti-lock brake system's valves or inner workings when you just did the fronts one day and the rear the next.

I doubt you damaged anything by compressing the pistons in the calipers too fast.

What you read about the ABS system: your starscan tool has a misc function to actuate the valves when you bleed the brakes. This is all on www.techauthority.com (Dodge service info) as well as www.sprintertekinfo.com (MB's service info for Sprinter).

The steps are to bleed the brakes the "old fashioned way."
Then you connect out the scan tool, put the ignition key into position two and - in your case, using starscan - and follow this menu:

ECU View -> ABS -> Misc Functions -> Bleed Brakes

The starscan unit will prompt you to open the bleeder valve and press the pedal for the rear driver-side, the front driver-side, the front passenger side and the rear passenger side. As you do the passenger side, you'll hear a lot of noise coming from the engine compartment. That is the scan tool actuating the ABS module, flushing the valves. These valves aren't flushed by a standard, "old fashioned" brake bleed.

To the root of your soft pedal issue: I'm not sure. If you didn't bleed the system, you didn't get any air into the brake lines.... someone else will have to offer some advice.

-Jon
 

JY Appliance

New member
ya , I dident open the system when changing the pads, just pushed the pistons back with a c clamp like always. I did do it fast. it was getting dark out. after the problem a week later i bled the fronts just to make sure, but its still the same. I use to be able to pump the peddle 2 times and would have a high hard peddle and it would stop fast. Somethig has changed with the master and ABS. With engine off you can pump peddle 4 times and its high and hard. With running it wont pump up , just soft and sinks like a bad master cly. I dont know where the oil pressure is going, but peddle fades. Nothing is leaking fluid is full. Its crazy. Ive done lots of brake jobs and never had a problem like this.
 

gary 32

07 ncv3 pv
Has anyone here done their own flush's?
Whats the Diagnostic tool good for on a brake flush? I'm more of a DIY type of guy, but am open to convincing.
Please convince me.
I have done my own fluid 3 times now, annually with no scan tool.
I use a motiv power bleeder, with dot 4, furthest to closest caliper then go out and activate the abs by standing on the brakes a few times, gravel roads are best and re bleed.
Firm pedal, clean fluid, easy for diy.
If you need an explanation, find a skilled friend or hire a pro.
Doing just the fronts will spread air, dirty fluid and water contamination in the brake system.
 
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jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
<snip>
Doing just the fronts will spread air, dirty fluid and water contamination in the brake system.
I guess you start with a brake fluid flush/bleed, JY Appliance.

If you elect to use your starscan tool (ECU View -> ABS -> Misc Functions -> bleed brakes) you'll run through about 1 liter of brake fluid as you pump the pedal and follow the on screen prompts.

I do this annually just for the warm fuzzy feeling of having fresh fluid in my braking system.

I also use a venturi-type compressed air driven suction machine to pull fresh fluid from the master cylinder through the lines and out the caliper bleed valve.

I just can't remember the manufacturer's name.

-Jon
 

JY Appliance

New member
I have the air compressor powered 1 man brake bleader ( I used that one to check fronts for air in line) and the vac pump style. Problem is air seeps in around the threads of the blead port and It looks like you have air in lines. Star scan sounds like a 2 or 3 man job to flush fluid. I tryed running through wet leaves today to activate antilocks. Antilocks were working , thumping away but after afew times peddle dident get any better. Im stumped??? Guess time to lay van up at MB dealer and take out the credit card$$$$$$$$$.:bash:
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
I have the air compressor powered 1 man brake bleader ( I used that one to check fronts for air in line) and the vac pump style. Problem is air seeps in around the threads of the blead port and It looks like you have air in lines. Star scan sounds like a 2 or 3 man job to flush fluid. I tryed running through wet leaves today to activate antilocks. Antilocks were working , thumping away but after afew times peddle dident get any better. Im stumped??? Guess time to lay van up at MB dealer and take out the credit card$$$$$$$$$.:bash:
With a pressure bleeding tool, it's a one man job any way you slice it.

My bleed kit has a bottle and an adapter which fills the master cylinder as the system is flushed so you don't end up sucking air through it and into the system.

Even w/o a tool to fill the master cylinder, it's a one person job.

The difference is that you'd have to fill the master cylinder as you move between calipers.



The star scan brake flush procedure will turn on the ABS module.

As you bleed the calipers, the ABS components will exercise, flushing the system.


A traditional bleed will miss 4 out of the 12 valves and two return pumps critical to proper braking functionality.

Fill the master cylinder to the top before you start on the first wheel.

Since you've never done this before:

Connect star scan, and turn on star scan

Turn the ignition key to position 2

Once star scan has booted, figured out that it's connected to a Sprinter, follow this menu path:

ECU View -> ABS -> Misc Functions -> Bleed Brakes

Follow the star scan prompts.

After the first wheel is done, make a mental note of how much fluid was consumed.

The second wheel will use the same amount.

Both these wheels take about 30 seconds of pedal work.

The third and forth wheels will use twice as much fluid as the first and second and take about 60 seconds for each caliper.

This is where the procedure gets noisy -ABS noise - and the pedal gets harder to push (scoot up in the cockpit so you don't trash your leg muscles).


However, if you insist on going to an MB dealership:

Specify that you'd like an "exceptional brake bleed."

It's in their Workshop Information System (just call it "WIS" - their eyes will get big and they'll pay attention).

Tell them that you know there's a WIS document which covers bleeding brakes with star diagnosis system (call it "SDS" - this will scare them because you know more than everyone else the service advisor meets).


If I were you, I'd save the cash and just do it with the star scan tool on Saturday morning.

Oh, this goes a lot faster with the wheels off.

-Jon
PS: keep the box end of your 11mm wrench on the bleeder valves so you can close 'em off fast after star scan tells you to move to the next wheel.
 
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pyramidhvacr

New member
GOD I know replace the master cylinder (autozone) lifetime or TAG parts center/ price about the same TAG little more. 3500 like a train with bad brakes. Replace fill bleed at fitting on master first then the brakes. OR you got a leak in wheel cylinder. bet it the master cylinder. I think it about $130.00/160.00

Ask a MB tech told me the only time need the star reader is if remove the return pumps is critical to remove the air. The old way works just fine but 2 man job. Did great for me. Soft back to hard brakes pedal. I think it 5 dot.
 
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220629

Well-known member
...
I think it 5 dot.
Nope. DOT 5 brake fluid is silicon based. Adding that to your Sprinter system will cause problems.

DOT 4+ is recommended. DOT 5.1 (the ".1" is very important) is the same chemistry as the DOT 4+ (higher wet boiling point than DOT 4) so will work if changed regularly.

Actually DOT 3, DOT 4, DOT 4+ and DOT 5.1 are all the same BASIC chemistry (not the same properties though). Don't use DOT 5 or any type silicon brake fluid as it is not compatible. vic
 
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