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sunshinelock
10-17-2011, 07:22 PM
I did a quick search through some of the archives here but I don't see anything that helps me much.

I have a 2005 model Dodge Sprinter.

My problem:

This started last light. I started up the van and the engine light stayed on. This is new. I drove down the road and it seemed fine. I passed a few vehicles and then about 4 minutes into my trip I noticed my acceleration was sluggish. At the next traffic light I noticed my acceleration was as if the turbo had failed.

(History... I had a turbo resonator fail a few years back and I replaced it with the aluminum one. Then a few months after that I had an upper turbo hose crack and I replaced that. In both instances I could hear that the turbo was not kicking on.)

However, this time I could hear the turbo, but it was just as sluggish as when I had those 2 other failures.

At the next light I turned off the van for a few seconds and restarted. I remembered this trick from my other 2 failures. The van worked okay, but I had to baby the accelerator.


Then later that night after the van sat for an hour or so, I pulled out of a parking space and I think I heard a relay flickering for a second. You know when your back tires slip and the traction control comes on and you hear that flickering relay? It was ALMOST like that, but not quite, and I'm not 100% certain I even heard it, but I do remember thinking that was odd. No additional lights came on the dash, but the engine light is still on and has not come off.

Today I checked under the hood and I don't see a problem with my resonator or upper turbo hose, but perhaps it is a bit more oily on the driver's side where the turbo hose is. I can't say it's abnormal, but it seems like a bit more oil in that area than there should be.

Later this morning I went onto I275 and decided to see how fast I could get this before failure and I did get it to 80 (there's a regulator that prevents me going faster). It was at 80 for a few seconds and then it failed again and my max speed ended being about 63 after that. So I safely pulled over and restarted. I got it to 65 and babied that pedal for the rest of the trip.

Any ideas?

jmoller99
10-17-2011, 08:01 PM
May be the EGR or a flaky sensor (try geting MAF cleaner and cleaning that sensor - Its in the air intake - right before the hose going into the turbo).

Any errors popping up (may need a DAD or other tool that can read the Sprinters ODB2 port)?

sunshinelock
10-17-2011, 08:30 PM
Well, I found the cause for the oily residue. I had a clamp on a turbo hose that was getting loose (just below that EGR sensor I would assume). I tightened that, but that did not cure my problem. I'll be checking into that sensor, next.

sunshinelock
10-17-2011, 11:56 PM
I have done quite a few searches about the EGR valve and everything seems to indicate that a 2005 Sprinter wouldn't need the EGR Valve cleaned as it is self-cleaning.

So, is it worth taking apart and cleaning? Not sure it's going to be dirty.

Altered Sprinter
10-18-2011, 12:03 AM
I have done quite a few searches about the EGR valve and everything seems to indicate that a 2005 Sprinter wouldn't need the EGR Valve cleaned as it is self-cleaning.

So, is it worth taking apart and cleaning? Not sure it's going to be dirty.
Use the blue searcxh bar and be surprised as to what turns up as the EGR valve is problematic.
This PDF will help you to understand the procedures .EGR postings.pdf (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=35176&d=1310875702)
Richard

tr4dude
10-18-2011, 01:50 AM
I repaired one sprinter that had a crack in the plastic connector inbetween the upper intake hose and the lower cooler hose. it is not to hard to remove and makes it easier to clean it and inspect the lower hose where i have found splits in too.

shortshort
10-18-2011, 03:30 AM
it could still be a split upper turbo hose.

djsincla
10-18-2011, 05:27 AM
it could still be a split upper turbo hose.

I agree...

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12669&page=3

hayduke
10-18-2011, 11:21 AM
Wouldn't all these varies cracks show up as reduced boost on the scanguage?

sailquik
10-18-2011, 02:14 PM
Hayduke,
You've got it!
Until he gets a reading of what the MAP pressure is, he's just guessing and so are
the folks offering solutions.
A full diagnostic scan with a DAD or DRB-III would be the best way to solve this issue,
but a short drive with a Scan Gauge II (or talk a local auto parts store into letting you
take a drive with whatever generic tool they have that will give a MAP (Manifold Absolute
Pressure) reading.
Sounds like the boost may be OK until it gets up over 32 PSI, then whatever holes there are
allow the boost to escape and it goes into LHM.
The missing information here is "real" numbers about boost pressure.
Roger

sunshinelock
10-18-2011, 07:02 PM
I don't have a scanner.

Am I correct, that if the vehicle detects the turbo problem, it shuts the turbo down?

I'm certain this is what happened when my resonator blew out, and it happened again with my upper turbo hose.

Or is my memory failing me?

This time the turbo is not shutting down. I can certainly hear the whine.

So, to me, the EGR valve does make sense. It's still turboing, but the engine isn't accelerating as if turbo was activating.

Aqua Puttana
10-19-2011, 12:30 PM
...
Am I correct, that if the vehicle detects the turbo problem, it shuts the turbo down?
...

One of the LHM responses can be limiting turbo operation.


...

So, to me, the EGR valve does make sense. It's still turboing, but the engine isn't accelerating as if turbo was activating.
Just because your problem hasn't triggered an LHM response doesn't mean it isn't related to boost pressure. Smaller leaks or other boost system problems could affect performance and not trigger an LHM.

I am presently exploring whether I have a small boost leak because reflecting upon my return home towing my boat I noticed that I just didn't seem to have the power I remember having in the mountains. I did see some wet oil residue around the lower hose and plastic assemby just after the intercooler. I haven't really gotten to do further inspection/tests yet, but that is an area I will look into closely.

Read what Sailquick posted for you. It seems you are beyond poking around to find your problem and really need to do some systematic troubleshooting. Good luck. vic

A.Hayes
10-20-2011, 03:09 AM
I did see some wet oil residue around the lower hose and plastic assemby just after the intercooler. I haven't really gotten to do further inspection/tests yet, but that is an area I will look into closely.



I just noticed that I have oil residue in the same area... haven't noticed any performance problems yet though. Please let us know what you find.

Thanks,
Alex

Aqua Puttana
11-27-2011, 04:18 PM
I just noticed that I have oil residue in the same area... haven't noticed any performance problems yet though. Please let us know what you find.

Thanks,
Alex
Alex,
I found that the hose clamps were a bit loose on the plastic unit near the battery which has the boost and intake air temp sensors mounted in it. That was probably the source of my oil film. I haven't found any hose leaks or other turbo system leaks so far.

Thanks to the DAD and Doktor A's consultation I'm pretty certain that I have a sticking EGR valve. I've ordered a new EGR from Europarts. At this point my guess is that the EGR has been on it's way out and maybe that caused the slight loss of power which I noticed. There have been other power loss threads where the EGR was the culprit. Apparently EGR problems don't necessarily set DTC's right away depending upon the failure mode/severity? vic

surlyoldbill
12-01-2011, 01:14 AM
On this loss of power thread, I have the same symptoms in my OM612. Seems to run just fine on the flats, but no power climbing steep hills. I almost think it's going to just stall out, but it downshifts and keeps creeping up. I cleaned my EGR and changed the fuel filter, and it's still there. I suppose I need to take off the hoses and inspect them next. New air filter is on the way.

talkinghorse43
12-01-2011, 02:56 PM
On this loss of power thread, I have the same symptoms in my OM612. Seems to run just fine on the flats, but no power climbing steep hills. I almost think it's going to just stall out, but it downshifts and keeps creeping up. I cleaned my EGR and changed the fuel filter, and it's still there. I suppose I need to take off the hoses and inspect them next. New air filter is on the way.

If smoke, then not enough air or not enough oxygen in the air. As I remember, a turbo problem or split hose with the OM612 will result in smoke. EGR valve sticking or inoperative & open will also result in smoke. Don't know if this fits here or below, but you might try running with the MAF sensor unplugged or search here for MAF issues and their effects on the OM612.

If no smoke, then not enough fuel. Don't know if that will light the CEL. Might be best to have it scanned if fuel filter is clear (although a new filter, maybe a lot of dirt could immediately compromise it - my recent experience tells me that a fuel filter issue can result in driveability issues even though the fuel filter clogged light isn't illuminated). If not the filter, could maybe be a high pump issue (maybe a loose or bad electrical connection?) or a rail pressure control issue.

sailquik
12-01-2011, 03:43 PM
sunshinelock,
The turbocharger will only "shut down" if it has an internal problem that prevents the
turbine wheel on the exhaust side from tuning i.e. a genuine turbocharger failure.
If you have a turbo plumbing leak, the turbo cannot develop enough pressure in the
turbo plumbing and this will be sensed by the MAF sensor
The turbo vane actuator will not change the variable vanes to develop full turbo pressure.
So, you get LHM (limp home mode) until you seal the leak (s) so the MAF sensor
(and other manifold turbo plumibing pressure sensors) again sense that you have the
correct amount of boost pressure.
So, yes, you may hear the turbo spinning, but it's not developing adequate pressure due
to the leak (s).
And, the turbo will not spin up to full speed because the system has sensed the leak (s)
or that too much of the boost is escaping to the EGR so it will not allow the turbo vane
actuator to set the vanes for full boost.
May be nothing at all wrong with your turbocharger, but due to the leaks it isn't able to
develop the required boost pressure to the sensors, and the low boost (sometimes mis-diagnosed
as high boost) prevents the turbo vanes from actuating.
Roger

surlyoldbill
12-01-2011, 04:37 PM
If smoke, then not enough air or not enough oxygen in the air. As I remember, a turbo problem or split hose with the OM612 will result in smoke. EGR valve sticking or inoperative & open will also result in smoke. Don't know if this fits here or below, but you might try running with the MAF sensor unplugged or search here for MAF issues and their effects on the OM612.

If no smoke, then not enough fuel. Don't know if that will light the CEL. Might be best to have it scanned if fuel filter is clear (although a new filter, maybe a lot of dirt could immediately compromise it - my recent experience tells me that a fuel filter issue can result in driveability issues even though the fuel filter clogged light isn't illuminated). If not the filter, could maybe be a high pump issue (maybe a loose or bad electrical connection?) or a rail pressure control issue.

Is there any potential danger to a test drive with the MAF unplugged?

sprintguy
12-01-2011, 05:27 PM
Before jumping to any conclusions , check for codes ... You can have a code with no check engine lamp. Maybe its not even related to boost issues , what if its trans issues , or even fuel system issues?

Carl

talkinghorse43
12-01-2011, 07:11 PM
Is there any potential danger to a test drive with the MAF unplugged?

Search using the tool in the blue bar above using the keywords "maf disconnect" and select posts. Read the hits. Doesn't seem to be a problem and if your power DOESN'T increase, could be a bad MAF sensor. But, a scan is still your best bet.

surlyoldbill
12-01-2011, 10:56 PM
Strangely enough, problem solved. It was probably the fuel filter. Test run up a steep hill about 1 kilometer from my house after change and it was doing the same thing, but not today. I squeezed hoses, unplugged and plugged back in the MAF and EGR, changed the fuel filter, cleaned the EGR. After all that it didn't perform well on the first test drive, but does now. EGR wasn't so bad because I cleaned it about 3k ago. I don't know exactly what fixed it, but I suspect the fuel filter. I'm just surprised that there wasn't an immediate effect. It seems a lot of the OM612 performance issues involve the fuel filter first and foremost.

surlyoldbill
12-08-2011, 11:43 PM
Strangely enough, problem solved. It was probably the fuel filter. Test run up a steep hill about 1 kilometer from my house after change and it was doing the same thing, but not today. I squeezed hoses, unplugged and plugged back in the MAF and EGR, changed the fuel filter, cleaned the EGR. After all that it didn't perform well on the first test drive, but does now. EGR wasn't so bad because I cleaned it about 3k ago. I don't know exactly what fixed it, but I suspect the fuel filter. I'm just surprised that there wasn't an immediate effect. It seems a lot of the OM612 performance issues involve the fuel filter first and foremost.

Strangely enough, problem NOT solved; it's back. Seems to vary in effect, sometimes really sluggish, sometimes not, but doesn't "jump" from one condition to the other. I bought an OBDII bluetooth reader, which works fine, but all the software I've tried is crap, 4 of the 6 don't even connect, the other 2 are really limited. I was able to find my intake pressure at 14.7psi accoeding to the software, and the intake temp was correct.

Is there anyone with a D.A.D. in the Bay Area I can meet up with this weekend to check codes and clear the CEL (result of trying someone's tip of unplugging the MAF to see if condition changed)?

rheckert
12-11-2011, 11:58 AM
The turbo intercooler has also been a problem area on some Sprinters, it has been known to have failures due to the seams not being airtight and can also cause low boost.

If that or the EGR valve are your problem i have both from a 2006 Sprinter that i am parting out after i threw a connecting rod.

The EGR has 10k on it and the intercooler has only about 3k on it ( it was replaced new after i hit a deer at 75mph )

Randy
1-414-587-4910

surlyoldbill
12-11-2011, 04:53 PM
Tinkering with my 03 right now. Pulled it up on the pad and parked, opened the hood and heard a hiss. Located the source as the vacuum hose or connections under the air filter and turbo. The hose doesn't have any visible cracks or holes, but is in a state of decomposition and isn't as pliable as it should be. I'll be replacing that 15" section today, along with any other straight runs. It's 6mm i.d. I think.

Note:
Met with glas1700 yesterday for a DAD scan (thanks, and a pleasure), which had mixed results. It wouldn't fully shake hands with my van (probably bad wire in my connector), but was able to reset my MIL/CEL. My 50 mile drive on the way the van performed normally. For 40 miles on the way back it performed normally. I parked for about 20 minutes to duck into a store and then went the rest of the way home; it was sluggish on that leg. The only variable between the drives is that I started the motor cold on the legs where it performed normally, and it was started hot on the one where it didn't. Could be meaningless.

talkinghorse43
12-11-2011, 05:48 PM
As I remember, either mean in green or maxetz posted some details recently on how to check vacuum there and what vacuum should be there. Important for good turbo function.

surlyoldbill
12-11-2011, 06:03 PM
As I remember, either mean in green or maxetz posted some details recently on how to check vacuum there and what vacuum should be there. Important for good turbo function.

Hypothetically speaking, if this hose, which is not too far from the turbo and exhaust, gets hot it may lose a little bit of it's seal. Parking a hot motor may allow enough radiant heat to effect it, but it seems like driving would allow enough cooler air to pass over it to return it to initial status. I'm just thinking out loud. It sure won't hurt to replace it, which is where I'm going now.

surlyoldbill
12-11-2011, 10:00 PM
vac hose replaced, hiss noise after shutting down the motor still there, coming from the vacuum tranducer. I pinched and messed with the three connections but it didn't noticably increase or decrease. I can recall hearing this hiss before after shutting down, and I assumed it was a normal function of the system. I see no vent on the tranducer, only a vent port to a filter (connected). Maybe the hiss I hear is from inside the transducer, allowing air into the system from the vent. Is this a normal occurance with the vacuum transducer solenoid, or is mine failing/failed? That could explain the seemingly random lack of boost.

surlyoldbill
12-17-2011, 12:35 AM
Report on my new sensor installations:

New intake temp sensor: No change
New MAF sensor: No change

I've replaced fuel and air filters, checked all the charge air hoses, cleaned the EGR (issue was happening before the cleaning, too). I'm working under the assumption that the turbo is not kicking in when it should, but it's possibly the EGR has failed in some way; though I watched it cycling with the cover off when idling. I'm left with the vacuum transducer and EGR in the charge air system, because the turbo DOES work initially. I've noticed that the van seems to operate normally when I first start it up, cold or hot. I tried turning it off for ten seconds and then re-starting today when it was driving sluggish, and it drove normally uphill for a minute or two, then back to low power. I have no dash lights except a worn brake pad light. At 155k, I'm probably due for a new EGR, but I don't want to replace it if it's still working.

Any advice or suggestions? The DAD didn't handshake well with my van, my OBD port is probably messed up, so I can't read DTCs or realtime data, but I'll try again with my ELM327 device (it worked a couple times). Is there any chance that I'm going to damage my motor driving with it like this until I solve it? What else would "reset" with a fresh startup to allow the van to drive normally?

And one more question, how can I test to see if it's the EGR? I read about a block-off roadside fix to get home, and it seemed to involve putting a membrane (beer can material) over the port on the EGR that lets in exhaust to the manifold; is that correct?

So many questions. I wish it were easy.

Aqua Puttana
12-17-2011, 01:32 AM
Bill,
I can't offer much.

I will say that I don't recall any early T1N owners (NAFTA 2001 - 2003 T1N's who have the vacuum control for their turbo vanes) commenting about regularly hearing hissing noises. That may be worth exploring further?

Your turbo control cut-off LHM sounds similar to the symptoms I experienced which traced to a bad O2 sensor. Rather than a hiss I had a squeal thrown into the mix for good measure. I found it took a bit of work to narrow down to that O2 sensor issue even with my DAD and Doktor A advice in the mix.

I AM NOT saying that your O2 sensor is the problem. I am saying that even with good diagnostic tools and expert advice it was a winding road for me. Is there a reasonable way to resolve the connection problems you found with hooking up to the DAD and then contact Doktor A?

I know that without owning a DAD yourself that may be not be easy. I will say that if I could be there with my DAD to help while you were in communication with Andy I would welcome the educational opportunity. Good luck. vic

surlyoldbill
12-17-2011, 01:55 AM
Vic, I'm in luck! The OM612 doesn't have an O2 sensor, so the culprit is narrowed down.

If anyone has a 02-03 and can pop their hood and listen for a hiss under the air filter right after they shut the motor off, I'd appreciate it. Vacuum solenoid (transducer) is $150, EGR is $600.

yellowmike
12-17-2011, 02:15 AM
surlyoldbill
I have a 2003 and I don't hear a hiss at all on mine. That little valve operates the control arm that opens and closes the vane on the turbo. I would consider changing that out as soon as possible.. Also make sure the control arm move freely and lube it with a high temp lube..

Aqua Puttana
12-17-2011, 02:36 AM
Vic, I'm in luck! The OM612 doesn't have an O2 sensor, so the culprit is narrowed down.
...


Bill!!!
I think we found the problem. You need that O2 sensor you don't have. And Rock Auto will sell it to you. :tongue: Look at the link. Sorry, couldn't resist. vic


http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,carcode,1444402,parttype,5132,d,2002_FREIGHTLINE R_SPRINTER_3500_2.7L_2687cc_165_cubic_inch_L5_DIES EL_FI_Turbo_2_DOHC_Oxygen_Sensor.html

surlyoldbill
12-17-2011, 03:55 AM
gonna look at this spot in the daylight; I might be missing the oily crack because of the EGR oil weep all over the place...

surlyoldbill
12-18-2011, 11:46 PM
Well, I completely disassembled my CAC and found no leaks or hints of leaks. As noted above, I've replaced the filters and MAF and Intake temp. I don't have easy access to a DAD, and it doesn't seem to "connect" anyway. I'm left with the EGR and the vacuum transducer. The transducer measured 15.3 ohms, which I think is in working range, as Dr A said it should be about 14 ohms. There is a hiss that lasts for about 20-30 seconds after I shut the motor off, though. I ordered a new EGR, mine was on borrowed time anyway at 155k. It should get here middle of this coming week. WHEN that doesn't work, I'll order a new transducer. I feel like a dealership mechanic, installing new parts until it works. I don't have much choice, not being able to use the onboard diagnostics.

I'm not feeling lucky, but I haven't taken it out for a test drive since putting it back together. Maybe magic will happen.

surlyoldbill
12-19-2011, 01:11 AM
No road test yet, but I was able to get one of my programs to pull some live info:

My boost pressure stays at 14.5 at idle, actually drops down a bit into the 13's when I first hit 2-3k rpm then levels back (parked). Same result with gear in reverse and brake on.
Intake temp looks right, a little warmer than ambient. MAF rises as I raise rpm's.

So, I have no boost. I'm guessing turbo isn't kicking in or EGR is open all the time. I'll check it on the road test tomorrow. I'm spent.

sailquik
12-19-2011, 03:01 AM
Hi bill,
Have you checked that the vacuum to the turbocharger actuator that moves the turvo vanes
is actually pulling down the small bellcrank on the front of the hot side (between the hot side and the compressor side)?
If you have no vacuum to the actuator, you won't get any variation in the boost (MAP) as the RPMs increase.
When you have someone rev the engine, you should see the bellcrank move (probably around 30-45 degrees) then it settles back some as the ECU stabilizes the turbovanes to the demand (LOD).
Hope this helps,
Roger

surlyoldbill
12-19-2011, 05:05 AM
Hi bill,
Have you checked that the vacuum to the turbocharger actuator that moves the turvo vanes
is actually pulling down the small bellcrank on the front of the hot side (between the hot side and the compressor side)?
If you have no vacuum to the actuator, you won't get any variation in the boost (MAP) as the RPMs increase.
When you have someone rev the engine, you should see the bellcrank move (probably around 30-45 degrees) then it settles back some as the ECU stabilizes the turbovanes to the demand (LOD).
Hope this helps,
Roger

Hooking up my vac gauge in the morning.

teamtexas
12-19-2011, 09:29 AM
OPERATION
The vacuum solenoid receives 12V from the ECM.
The ECM controls the solenoid through a PWM signal.
When the solenoid receives a signal it closes the
passage to atmospheric pressure. The subchamber is
no longer under atmospheric pressure, itís spring can
push the diaphragm and valve downwards; this
releases the VAC duct. Vacuum can now go from here
through the throttle hole, filters and out the connection
to the turbocharger vacuum unit (Fig. 5).
Fig. 4 CHARGE PRESSURE VACUUM TRANSDUCER
1 - CONNECTION TO TURBOCHARGER VACUUM UNIT
2 - VENT
3 - SUPPLY FROM VACUUM PUMP
Fig. 5 TURBOCHARGER VACUUM ROUTING
1 - ENGINE 5 - VACUUM SOLENOID
2 - BRAKE BOOSTER CHECK VALVE 6 - VACUUM RESERVOIR
3 - VACUUM PUMP 7 - ACCESSORY VACUUM JUNCTION
4 - TURBOCHARGER 8 - FILTER


When I was working on mine, I pulled the lower vac line off (it goes to an open atmospheric filter) and plugged it with my finger. That made the turbo linkage move. It told me I had vac. pressure to the transducer. My ohm reading was about the same as yours and mine was working properly. Sounds like the egr will be the fix to me. Thats just what I had to do to fix mine.

Dan

stroud_omnibus
12-19-2011, 03:16 PM
Bill, I have a hiss from the underside of my air cleaner box every time I park up. It has 285k miles and has been doing this all the time since I've owned it (nearly 4 years and 50k miles).

surlyoldbill
12-19-2011, 03:20 PM
Bill, I have a hiss from the underside of my air cleaner box every time I park up. It has 285k miles and has been doing this all the time since I've owned it (nearly 4 years and 50k miles).

Alan, that's been my experience, too. Once fixed, I'll write a summary of the adventure. Sorry to the OP for highjacking the thread...

larry8061
12-19-2011, 04:25 PM
For Pricing:

I JUST checked pricing between Europarts San diego and Rock Auto......... Europarts was essentially 10% less than Rock Auto and I find the Europarts website a LOT easier to use.

I checked the pricing on all the "fun" parts that could be causing these idiot conditions and Europarts website SAYS (I don't know) they have the parts in stock. Rock Auto lists some of these as non-stock.

Good luck!

Larry

surlyoldbill
12-19-2011, 04:33 PM
Just tested the vacuum at the transducer,
about 29 going into it, and coming out starts off at 16 and then drops to 0 after 10 seconds or so of motor running.
removing vent line and plugging the vent connection with my finger raises output from 0 to 29.

Turbo actuator moves freely. I think I've isolated it to the vaccum transducer/solenoid. I checked the wires for continuity yesterday, and they're not compromised, so it's the transducer itself (unless it's the ECU not sending the correct voltage to open/close the solenoid because it doesn't like some of the other info it's getting). A little more testing on voltages to be certain, and then I'm ordering the part (which I cannot find with an internet search, but a phone call should do it). Looks like I'll be packing around a spare EGR for when mine finally dies.

voltage test: 10.8 at idle, so I believe the wiring is good and the PWM signal is good.

$110 from EuropartsSD, 2 day FedEx shipping is $18!
Only $283 at local Dodge dealer,and a one week wait until they get it in!
(gosh, which place should I buy it from?!)

teamtexas
12-19-2011, 06:42 PM
(unless it's the ECU not sending the correct voltage to open/close the solenoid because it doesn't like some of the other info it's getting)


Bingo


That's my vote! I would install the egr before buying the transducer. :2cents:

Dan

surlyoldbill
12-19-2011, 07:01 PM
Bingo


That's my vote! I would install the egr before buying the transducer. :2cents:

Dan

Checked the voltage to the vacuum solenoid, it stays the same whether I have 17hg to the turbo at idle or suddenly drops to 0hg at idle. I'm almost certain it's a failed solenoid. Someone else had this as the source of their "no boost" issue.

surlyoldbill
12-21-2011, 11:22 PM
SUCCESS!

My issue was the vacuum transducer. New one in and holding steady at 17hg at idle, boost is back on test drive.
Note: only the 2002 and 2003 have a vacuum turbo actuator; this part is NOT on the 2004-2006 OM647 engine.

For other OM612 engine owners with no boost, AFTER you inspect the charge air system for leaks, the intake air temp sensor for failure, you will want to get a cheap manual vacuum gauge and check the hg of vacuum before the transducer (should be at least above 28hg) and coming out (unplug the line to the turbo and insert your gauge into that line. mine is 17hg at idle). Make sure to plug any connections you remove with a cap before starting and testing. If you have no vacuum between the transducer and the turbo, check voltage to the transducer. The voltage at idle on mine was 10.8vdc. No voltage means there is a bad wire or connection somewhere else.

good night, and good luck.

teamtexas
12-21-2011, 11:58 PM
Congrats SOB, you just had to prove me wrong!!:hugs:

Dan

surlyoldbill
12-22-2011, 12:59 AM
Congrats SOB, you just had to prove me wrong!!:hugs:

Dan

nah, I was just trying to get back on the road with the tools at hand. My new EGR should have also been here today. I'll wait to put it on until my old one actually dies, or I hit 200k and the oil drip is too annoying.

surlyoldbill
12-22-2011, 10:54 PM
Hmmm....NOT SO FAST!
My initial roadtest did not involve inclines, just a flat drive to the store upon which acceleration felt "normal". Roadtest today proved that I have NOT solved my dilema.

The new vacuum solenoid does what the last one did; holds steady at 17hg...for 20-25 seconds, and then drops to 0. Does this every time I start it up.
I'm really stumped. The voltage from the ECU remains constant at 10.6-10.8 vdc. My stupid thinking would be that a change in voltage would move the solenoid, but it's a PWM signal, which I know little about. The manual says:
The vacuum solenoid receives 12V from the ECM.
The ECM controls the solenoid through a PWM signal.
When the solenoid receives a signal it closes the
passage to atmospheric pressure.

First off, I'm not getting 12v. Second, the current doesn't change when the solenoid changes.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

sailquik
12-22-2011, 11:08 PM
Bill,
Have you checked the output of the vacuum pump?
As a diesel, it derives any and all vaccum (for your turbo actuator and the brake
booster) from the vacuum pump.
Take a look, might be the pump isn't holding vacuum when the engine speed get
much above idle, or something else in the vacuum circuit is opening up and dumping
your vacuum.
Roger

surlyoldbill
12-23-2011, 12:29 AM
Roger, I get consistent 29+hg on the vac supply into the solenoid. Finding no precise info on how the solenoid controls the turbo, it could be that it is SUPPOSED to shut down to zero-hg after initial 20 seconds while in park; ie, I'm barking up the wrong tree. I checked voltage at the supply line (brown) and it was above 13v and the control wire (white) was at 3.5. My measurement of 10.8 was testing both wires to each other, which was the wrong way to do it; they're both POS. The VDC was the same coming out of the ECU as it was at the connector.

I took off my EGR and cleaned it and checked it again, if I blow as hard as I can, I can get some air to pass through, I suspect I shouldn't be able to get ANY through. Maybe TeamTexas will be vindicated and it will be the EGR afterall...new one should be here Friday or Saturday.

On test drive, my boost was about 14.6 most of the time, but would get as high as 20 when accelerating hard on the flats. Lugging up a steep hill with the pedal nearly floored it was about 16-18. Using the atmospheric conversions, 14.6 is sea level, so that would be zero boost. I get maybe 5psi boost in some conditions. It almost seems like it should be shifting down when I go up the steep hill, but doesn't. It stays in 3rd when 2nd is where it drives better. Still no power, as in torque, though. I am pretty confident that the hoses are not leaking air. Going up the hill I see that I have some smoke, not black clouds but more like a thin fog or campfire smoke. Neither black nor white.

teamtexas
12-23-2011, 01:40 AM
:popcorn:

Egg nog and Rum fixes everything. Have a good Christmas and forget about it till Friday!

Dan

sailquik
12-23-2011, 03:16 AM
Bill,
Your symptoms sound a whole lot like the 04 Sprinter (electronic turbo actuator solenoid vs
your vacuum actuated turbo control0 that I helped diagnose and fix a couple of years ago..
I'm not sure you can check the signals between the turbo actuator and ECU with your multimeter VOM.
Much better to find someone with a DAD unit so you can see what the actuator is or is not doing.
Might want to give Dr. A a call and see if he has any suggestions, or could swap the actuator
for one he know's is good.
That's what we did on the 04 short short I was working with him on.
When you look at the actuator arm (bellcrank) on the front of the hot side of your turbocharger do you see full movement?
Might want to disconnect the linkage and make sure the vane ring is turning smoothly and
easily, and also clean and lube the ball and socket joints on the bellcrank and the turbo actuator.
Sounds to me like the vane ring is not turning, but do not know if that's due to a vacuum problem or if the ring or linkage is frozen or sticky.
When you rev the engine (out of gear with the E brake set) you should see plenty (25-30 deg. or more) of rotation on the little bellcrank arm.
If it's not moving, you will know why you have no boost.
Seems like you may be after the control side of this issue when the problem could be with
the actuator and linkage.
Roger

surlyoldbill
12-23-2011, 10:34 PM
@ Roger: I checked out the turbo, and the lever moves easily enough for it's full range.

We may have a WINNER in TeamTexas; I did the EGR block-off today and had full power.
I pulled the EGR to inspect and clean a third time, and even after as good a cleaning as I can do, even with Dremel and scotchbright, solvent will still dribble from one side to the other with a closed valve, and I can blow a little air through from the exhaust side. Crossing my fingers that the new EGR gets here today.

Aqua Puttana
12-23-2011, 10:57 PM
...
We may have a WINNER in TeamTexas;
...

OMG Bill will that make TeamTexas your BFF??

You've got to stop filling his head with praise or his swelled head won't fit through a doorway even in Texas where everything is bigger. :tongue:

Back to topic. When my turbo control was being held off I noticed that my (Roger. Stop reading now. I'm going to mention using metering which involved invasion, penetration, and general abuse of the Sprinter cast aluminum manifold.) mechanical boost gauge showed positive pressure of a few pounds without the turbo being engaged. My guess is that it may be related to EGR pressure addition or that the turbo vanes don't seal off completely or both?:idunno: Either way I was surprised to see postive intake pressure with the turbo control out of the loop.

I also found as you did that manual shifting helped when the turbo was off. Actually when just driving around in the city, turbo only LHM wasn't so bad. I wasn't limited to 3200 RPM as I could even crawl up to 70 mph on level highway. FWIW.

Let's hope the EGR is your problem. Even if it does make TeamTexas have a swelled head. :cheers: vic

surlyoldbill
12-30-2011, 10:26 PM
Team Texas is my BFF :hugs:. In my circles, that stands for "Bigfoot Friend" (get out to the Big Thicket much?).

It was the EGR. New EGR solved the problem of low boost.
I had 155k on my original EGR, I don't know what is expected of an OM612 EGR. At around every 100k, should we purchase and have on hand a new EGR?
This is only my second "issue" with my Sprinter. The first was the very long "hard to start when hot" thread. I now know about these two conditions, and will be able to diagnose easier in the future. Hopefully others will benefit from all the posts and suggestions and results on this thread and the one for my other issue. A big Thank You to the Sprinter Forum Think Tank for chiming in and adding :2cents:

As a "glass half full" thought, I now also have a new MAF and intake temp sensor, so I won't need to worry aboput those parts for a while. In the course of things, I am 99.9% confident that my Charge Air hoses are in good condition.

teamtexas
12-31-2011, 01:20 AM
Yea!!! Im glad your problem is solved. It just amazes me when you look at all the limp home posts on the net. You would think we would be experts by now! Happy new year with that egr. Dan

sunshinelock
01-06-2012, 10:00 PM
Just to follow up to my original post, in case somebody wanted to diagnose their own:

I bought an EGR valve on ebay and replaced it myself. It took about 10 minutes to do. Very easy.

That allowed me to get the van back to 80mph again.

However, if I floor the pedal too quickly I get the engine back onto limp-home mode.

I'm fairly certain that is a separate problem and I'll be looking at replacing my fuel rail sensors to solve that problem.

johnshmit
01-06-2012, 10:07 PM
Check if you have stored "Fuel pressure too low" and "Fuel pressure too high" codes at the same time.
If yes, you've got sticking injector.

barkor
10-13-2013, 07:53 PM
I'm having identical turbo issues with my '03, 230k. Of Note:

-turbo works ok (up to 25MAP) when I unplug the MAF sensor. I cleaned it, but no change.
-Throws code P0000 when I unplug MAP sensor, but clears itself after a couple starts with sensor connected.
-turbo sometimes works for first minute or so, then goes out. Sometimes appears to start again, up to about 18MAP, max.
-no obvious cracks in the charge air hoses
-turbo actuator arm moves some when I start it. Appears to move correctly (with some resistance - from a spring?) when manually pushed
-The fuel filter clogged recently and I replaced it. After this, when starting, sometimes, the engine cranks for up to 5 seconds before it sputters and starts up. Seems to not have fuel right away. No fuel leaks that I can find, no air in the lines visible.
-I replaced the EGR 5k ago, after the old one was throwing oil out the actuator arm hole and spraying all over. The new one is pretty oily already, but most of it appears to be coming out of where the charge air hose meets the mixing chamber. I have the old one cleaned and ready to install.
-EGR actuator arm doesn't move at all, at idle or when revved. I don't have a way to see what it does under load. I recall the old one would do something, even at idle.
-The battery tested 'bad' at an auto parts shop, but appears to crank the engine just fine. Alternator tested 'ok'.

Ideas? I have standard tools, but no DAD (wish I had one!). In Bishop, CA at the moment.

Indy Monster
10-13-2013, 08:43 PM
Check your Turbo Sound and Vibration Dampener. It is located before the turbo but on the lower part of the engine. It is made to fail and is cheap.http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/wcsstore/CVWEB/staticproductimage//5460/large/10146650_dor_904303_pri_larg.jpg

autostaretx
10-13-2013, 09:10 PM
> resonator

+1 ... when mine went, it only affected boost *above* MAP=25 psi
And, once it leaked a bit (from the seam around the flat edge), the ECU would stop asking for turbo boost.
Until i stopped, turned off the engine, and then turned it back on.
The CEL only came on about once per three episodes.

Another dead-giveaway clue is the accumulation of tarry oil on the exterior of the small hoses that are *below* the resonator.
The oil-bearing blow-by accumulates there, leaving its sticky footprint.

--dick

barkor
10-13-2013, 09:14 PM
Check your Turbo Sound and Vibration Dampener. It is located before the turbo but on the lower part of the engine. It is made to fail and is cheap.http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/wcsstore/CVWEB/staticproductimage//5460/large/10146650_dor_904303_pri_larg.jpg

Note that this is a 2003.. Resonators are on 04/05 only, right?

autostaretx
10-13-2013, 09:21 PM
Note that this is a 2003.. Resonators are on 04/05 only, right?
(and '06)... but still: whoops.
So change my advice to "look everywhere for a tarry oil deposit. Then find where it came from"

(some folks have had leakage from underneath the hose clamped areas that secure the turbo hoses)

--dick

barkor
11-22-2013, 05:32 PM
upon getting it plugged into a drbIII, it was throwing a code related to the boost pressure/turbo wastegate. a vacuum leak was found in the turbo actuator hoses. problem has not recurred for a couple hundred miles.