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PeterInSa
09-14-2011, 03:17 AM
OK, So I don't rotate my tyres every 5000km ( but do change the engine oil every 5K) maybe every 15,000 so end up having slight inside edge wear on the front tyres. And of course the outside edge has around another 10,000Km and the inside edge is just over legal and becomes the spare.

Am reluctant to have a wheel alingment on the theory that there needs to be some toe in to give steering stability, and a big AND Sprinter wheel alingments are not an everyday thing in out neck of the woods and am not interested in training up some tech at my expense. Even if the tell me they have done Sprinters previously ( 2 years ago) I would like to have the Sprinter 313 2003 Alingment Specs and be present while the job is done.

In closing I think a bit of inner wear is acceptable..

Comments apprecaited.

Peter

Altered Sprinter
09-14-2011, 03:46 AM
Peter mine was on the outside more so one tire only.In saying this in the first 12 months I hit a transmission that fell off the back of a truck that threw the balance of the rim out a tad.
My Left ball joint was one mil out with wear never changed in the life of the van from 2005.
3 mil is within OEM tolerances for wear.
If a tire goes out of round the balance is effected so I'd suggest a tire-on rim balance. Wear on the inside is another matter, but how many K's and how old are the tires?
Pic of my original tires . Never wore them out, but they were so old and hard they never performed off road at all. I doubt if toe in toe in out is effected, if they are just plain getting old and beyond their age of life.

37116
OEM Bridgestone
37117
Replaced with Roadstone
Radial A/T RV 225/70 R15C
8PR 112/110R BSW
37118
37119
Happy Feet.:D:

Richard

glas1700
09-14-2011, 04:34 AM
How old are the tyres and how many km do they have on them? Seven years is about the limit for a tyre in any type of usage. Usually I'd expect to see wear on the outside edges due to the factory positive camber setting.

Byron
07 Navion
Ca, USA

Eric Experience
09-14-2011, 09:32 AM
Peter.
The most likely cause is movment of your front cross member. The front cross member is bolted to the chassis and located by hollow dowels around the bolts. Both the chassis and the cross member are painted before being bolted together, after many bumps the paint becomes compressed or extruded out allowing the front member to move slightly. this movement enlarges the dowel holes towards the rear. The way to fix your vehicle is to make up a puller from a turnbuckel and a pair of short chains. set it up to pull the crossmember forward, then loosen the 4 bolts, pull the member forward, it may move only about 2 mm but it will fix it, then retighten the bolts. Eric.

Altered Sprinter
09-15-2011, 02:45 AM
Peter: an older thread tells a story. rear inner tire wear. Worn Rear Shocker? - Sprinter-Forum (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15696) [You never followed through on the thread]
Front inner tire wear:Negative camber Toe-in.
37143
Slight wear Vertical Negative Camber
37142
Toe-in camber off set left to right

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How to read tire wear:HOW TO READ TIRE WEAR (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.procarcare.com%2Fincludes%2Fc ontent%2Fresourcecenter%2Fencyclopedia%2Fch25%2F25 readtirewear.html&ei=WFdxTqbCFoeWiQeVm9mgBg&usg=AFQjCNGS7bVds5jsAd6NDXpe71Xf7kIonw&sig2=gzqmRg3PEOZKiSkVnG8vjA) How simple can it be?

37144
Left Hand inner front passenger side camber wear Negative toe-in.
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Mb is fully equipped to diagnose your front end problems , after market tire companies may be but lack both training and parts.It's a 50/50 bet unless you go to the pros like ARB that specialize in brakes and suspension.

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Van Camper configuration purchased secondhand: How many Miles ! How old are the tires?
Has any real time maintenance been performed on suspension rubbers front and rear look for cracking and distortion on the sway bar links at rear and drag links front end.
Check tolerances of front ball joints if at or past 3mil replace them.
Old tires are not worth fixing as to a re balance or partial camber spacer fix . If camber out of true OEM specs custom spacers can be manufactured to a one off special order the setting can on be done by MB or a fully qualified tire specialist. as the part for over specking is custom made to an exact tolerance of specification.

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Weight to center of gravity: Possible cause front end over load, adjust weight configuration.Weigh front of van to match OEM load limits as to the push pull effect on Braking where front suspension rubbers over-ride the bump stop on off camber road surfaces.

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Camper van has done some serious traveling on all road surfaces through out Australia off highway roads are the common denominator for camber wear on cornering.

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Great you have been to Tas up North top end Highways go onto coastal roads and the dynamics of steering and braking change on narrow road surfaces with Passenger side road camber wear.

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Back to Basics:Quote: Don't want to educate the dealership, some times you have to have a little faith as to it costing you money in the longer term of ownership end of quote. --------------------
My advise is as follows:A proper wheel alignment should always start and end with a test.
The front end and steering linkage components for wear and tear before performing a wheel alignment,the tires should be in good shape with an even tread pattern,other wise your wasting time and money.
If you have a tire {No Photograph :idunno:} with excessive camber wear,for instance, and you correct the alignment problem; [That caused that wear],in the forst instance the tire will now be making only partial contact with the road...
Pulling problems again as to the push factor of a camper van as to center of gravity, are not always related to wheel alignment.Problems with tires [especially unequal air pressure], brakes and power steering etc ,can also contribute and be as responsible.
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Moving on Advanced Wheel Alignment information.
While a Camber and castor & toe-in are the normal run of the mill procedures to checked.
Look at Camber.
Caster.
Toe.
Steering Axis Inclination [SAI]..for true vertical axis.
Included angle, scrub radials,Riding height left to right front to rear.as to a campers suspension center of gravity if fitted.'
Set back, Trust angle, Steering center. Toe out on turns.
Main brand tires are $300 each unless your in the trade discount group Labor plus parts. In conclusion: With steering axis inclination with true vertical axis also includes Angle True vertical and Camber. Nothing is simple with a Benz, yet it's fairly straight forward if you have the MB Wis data for the exact settings, that can be adjusted as to a mainframe computer preset for a perfect configuration. Where tire centers fail largely in part spaces fit on the sub fame ,once released to ground zero they crush and pop straight out. Benz ask your service provider for a step by step quotation .other wise you don't know what your paying for. the bill is unknown as to time and parts involved.
Richard

PeterInSa
09-15-2011, 04:13 AM
Richard, All
Re Peter: an older thread tells a story. rear inner tire wear. Worn Rear Shocker? - Sprinter-Forum [You never followed through on the thread]
When I went to have the tyre replaced the tire tech told me that the most likey cause was under inflation, this may have been the cause, had a puncture put on the spare inflated to a front tyre pressure but put on the rear. With the new tyre on the rear have a smoothy ride.

My front drivers side tyre looks like your top photo, but if kept on for a longer period could maybe look like the second. at the moment am going to put a new tyre on the front drivers side and watch what happends on our next 7000km trip.

Where do I find the Camber/Castor and Toe in Specs?.

Eric will discuss your solution with mechanic after our trip.

Thanks

Peter

Altered Sprinter
09-15-2011, 04:55 AM
One only tire is not the solution sorry as to tracking. Specs are preset for standard vans and campers MB Wis will give you the exacting specs from your Vin configuration at a dealership.
37151

37152
Schematic shows bolt down points of front sub frame if bolts have moved the paint work will show scratching on the frame.
Usually happens from a collision only.
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Rear tire wear center is under-inflation
Rear tire inner-wear facing the axle is caused by dramatic off road cambers when on entering bad roads from a smooth road surface it's always minor the front two parabolic springs cause the rear lateral switchback flick.
solution for a permanent fix is this kit.
37153

It may pay to replace the tire valves if original as they do leak it was a recall elsewhere. If you can afford it purchase an Australian mapped wireless TPS tire pressure indicator..It's on my list of wants. like real soon as to off road traveling where most of my time is now spent.
37154
It all costs money at the end of the day Peter! but the end results are plain to see for a driver. Otherwise you have the ongoing issues.
I stand-firm in saying that you need to have the front end checked beforehand as to replacing a set of matching tires.
Richard.

Altered Sprinter
09-15-2011, 06:19 AM
The kit Australian SSMS-15 Mercedes Sprinter


37160
37161
37162
37164
Its the Roos and pottaroos that cause so much mischief.
Richard

PeterInSa
09-15-2011, 10:19 AM
Richard, Thanks for your info,
while putting on the new tyre front drivers side, noticed that the near new front tyre on the passenger side is wearing a bit on the inside. Will put a brand new tyre on the front passenger side as well and have a wheel alingment check on monday morning, will also bring along Erics comment above. bugga..........

Richard re TPMS am going to get a set of 6, either tyredog or tyreguard these wireless sensors fit on the valves, the dogs have replaceable batteries change ever years or 2 and the tguard have sealed batteries that last up to 5 years, like the idea of the sealed unit but.... they rely on the manufacturer being around in 5 years time and that they have not changed the design of the sensor/in cab receiver.

Prefer the TPMS that fits around the inside rim of the wheel but our boat trailer has tubes/small wheels so cannot be used, hence the valve sensors.

Peter

Altered Sprinter
09-15-2011, 11:06 AM
Richard, Thanks for your info,
while putting on the new tyre front drivers side, noticed that the near new front tyre on the passenger side is wearing a bit on the inside. Will put a brand new tyre on the front passenger side as well and have a wheel alingment check on monday morning, will also bring along Erics comment above. bugga..........

Richard re TPMS am going to get a set of 6, either tyredog or tyreguard these wireless sensors fit on the valves, the dogs have replaceable batteries change ever years or 2 and the tguard have sealed batteries that last up to 5 years, like the idea of the sealed unit but.... they rely on the manufacturer being around in 5 years time and that they have not changed the design of the sensor/in cab receiver.

Prefer the TPMS that fits around the inside rim of the wheel but our boat trailer has tubes/small wheels so cannot be used, hence the valve sensors.

Peter Hi Peter I'm 99% sure you do not have sub frame misalignment.so leave that one in the back of your mind.
The front end needs to be checked fully! " it's money well spent" As to your tire issue, hell it may just be out of balance:idunno: so Go forth and do your thing I like a happy camper on the road not an old fart..:smilewink:TPS I just love color but a good investment I think in the long run, it gives you more to look at.:doh:
Tell us what you find out I'm interested as to what if anything is out of plumb
In the meantime cheers Richard.
Old Farts in Caravan Parks by John Williamson - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9f0QOh5KAU&feature=related)

Eric Experience
09-15-2011, 11:45 AM
Peter.
If you take your sprinter to a tyre dealer to get your front end aligned you are most likely come away with a worse problem because most tyre dealers do not understand the importance of checking the cross member position. Best to leave it untill you can do what I recomend, it is an easy job you can do yourself in about 1 hour. If you do not have the confidence to do it yourself let me do it for you. I am in Alice springs and heading back to Melbourne in about 3 weeks. Eric..

Oldfartt
09-16-2011, 01:15 AM
"I like a happy camper on the road not an old fart..)

Thats Me"

Happy campers are we...

Cheers

Ross

Altered Sprinter
09-16-2011, 01:26 AM
"I like a happy camper on the road not an old fart..)

Thats Me"

Happy campers are we...

Cheers

Ross Twinkle Twinkle :rolleyes:
Richard

PeterInSa
09-20-2011, 07:15 PM
Took our Sprinter to have the wheel alingment, it was in Spec, however adjusted the Toe in to max but still in Spec. ie within the +/- range.

Don't know what impact ,but could not get the Sprinter onto the 4 poster, it was 2 long, Front wheels were on the 4 poster turntable, and rear wheels on the ground ie front about 9 inches higher than the rear.

Castor on the passenger side was more than the drivers side.

Was told the swap the front tyres around in 5,000Km

Peter

Eric Experience
09-21-2011, 01:03 PM
Peter.
It is a shame you did not straighten the cross member because that would have cured your problem and no cost. The caster being different on one side is the direct result of a disloged cross member. Clearly your "mechanic" does not know sprinters. Eric.