Dealer Rip off or Justified

Kid347

Kid347

Member
One of our Sprinters is a 2008 2500 and it needed brakes after 105,000 miles. The dealer wanted 2.5 hours per axil to do pads, rotors, and sensors. When I do my 2003 truck brakes it usually takes me an hour to an hour and a half and that's with a floor jack and jack stands - no lift. We have six sprinters and I was hoping to get good service and a good rate. I feel like this is a rip of. Am I jumping the gun or being unreasonable? The total bill for front and rear brakes, oil & filter and a fuel filter was $720.00 LABOR NO PARTS. I was in shock, This is just routine mainteance. I could not afford to keep our fleet on the road at these prices.
 
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gary 32

gary 32

07 ncv3 pv
Kid347 said:
One of our Sprinters is a 2008 2500 and it needed brakes after 105,000 miles. The dealer wanted 2.5 hours per axil to do pads, rotors, and sensors. When I do my 2003 truck brakes it usually takes me an hour to an hour and a half and that's with a floor jack and jack stands - no lift. We have six sprinters and I was hoping to get good service and a good rate. I feel like this is a rip of. Am I jumping the gun or being unreasonable? The total bill for front and rear brakes, oil & filter and a fuel filter was $720.00 LABOR NO PARTS. I was in shock, This is just routine mainteance. I could not afford to keep our fleet on the road at these prices.
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You feel you got reamed.
There are plenty of threads and suppliers to help you through this simple work, just do it yourself and be happy.
 
N

NBB

Well-known member
2.5 hours sounds like a very long book time to me for a pr of brakes. For ~$25 or so, you can subscribe to alldatadiy.com - they have book times. I think you can call NAPA, Autozone - one of those chain stores and ask for book time as well. Not sure of a better place to get Sprinter book times. Maybe call a few other dealers and ask more about what book they are using. Thereafter, I think for a few hundred, I would argue it with the service manager.
 
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icarus

Well-known member
Why are you using the dealer for routine brake service? It's not like this is a very difficult job, any good wrench should be able to rotors pads, etc more reasonably.

Icarus
 
H

hayduke

2005/2006 leisure travel
Hours rip off-yes. But $7xx for 10+ hours is really low in many places. How about 1 hour per axle at $175/hour? That is the hourly rate for VW in San Jose
 
Kid347

Kid347

Member
the story is that I was busy at the time and this truck stays across the state 4 hours away and I did not have time the day I needed it done. One of the points I am trying to make is that a dealer could charge $25.00 an hour for labor then say it takes 12 hrs to do brakes. This dealer charged me $106.65 an hr. But I can't see how it can take 2.5 hrs per axel, when I can do it myself in an hr and a half with a floor jack and jack stands. No matter how you slice it it is just to expensive for a work truck. Maybe the owners of big S class and SL's can afford but not a small business trying to keep a small fleet of work trucks on the road.
 
tab380

tab380

The Drain Doctor
My Freightliner dealer charges $95 or $105 an hour. My Dodge dealer charges $65.00 but a Sprinter brake job is $500. with parts per axle.
 
I

icarus

Well-known member
This is an example of book rate pricing! It all comes down to value. I want to get value for money. I don't care if they charge $10 hour, or $200 hour as long as the value is about right.

I know a Subaru tech who can routinely bill 24 book rate hours in a 8 hour shift, because he is very good at what he does. Does the shop get rich,, not really, because they have to subsidize those jobs that take 2 hours to do a 1 hour job.

Like I said, it all comes down to competence and value. Find a shop that does good work on everything at a fair price, and patronize them. I personally avoid dealers like the plague since experience has taught me that more often than not,, they neither do a good job, nor provide a fair price.

Icarus
 
sprintguy

sprintguy

16+ yrs Master Commercial technician
I am a flat rate tech , and we also charge 2.5 per axle for a brake job... but its not just slap some pads , rotors and sensors on, there is a lot of cleaning and lubeing going on. Those time are usually set by the the dealer based off the actual labor times. Brake jobs are our bread and butter, They are the type of work that is done to make up for the horrendous labor times the factory pushes on the techs to accomplish the warranty jobs. I feel that 2.5 per axle is as fare as it can get , that way if problems arise like frozen slides or having to break the rotor in half to get it off , we don't have to call you to upsell the extra time to do so. On another note if you get your vehicle back and the work is not satisfactory, Then be angry.
Another good point is if you service your vehicle with the dealer = hopefully when the time comes when your out of warranty and a big problem arises , and they see you are a loyale customer then most likely they are going to work with you to help ease the pain of the costly repair you may have encountered.
Believe me , to do a brake job the correct way it does take up to 2.0 hours an axle , as stated before quality is the main goal, and if the tech is rushing to break even on a job, you are not going to get the quality you deserve...
Oh 1 more thing.. most techs in this industry are grossly underpaid per hour for what we have to know and do ... the dealer charged you 106$ and hour and the tech got (if he was lucky) 25$ per hour of that money :thinking:. So if that work on your brakes took the tech 1.5 hours per axle to complete than he made an extra 2 hours so instead of making 25$ an hour he made 41$ per hour (which is more like what a tech should be getting paid).

disclaimer: This my opinion only and does not reflect the opinion of others who may take offense to this statement.

Carl
 
N

NBB

Well-known member
icarus said:
This is an example of book rate pricing!
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I think they all use a book.

The main thing I see though is slipping in extra tasks that aren't necessary or correctly added. For example, the book might say it's 0.75 hour to replace the sensor. However, that time includes driving in, jacking, removing wheels, etc - all while doing nothing else but the sensor R&R. In reality, the sensor R&R is likely already combined with the pad R&R time, maybe just not specified clearly as a part of that task - or maybe it is and they just throw the extra 0.75 hr anyway. Lots of other ways to mess up. You almost need to be a mechanic and familiar with the particular vehicle to get the book time right for the job. I think some punt and pad to cover their butts.

The guy writing that service order is often paid on commission. Just ask, in case it isn't already obvious.

$/hr is a big who-cares. They're all $100 these days, the differences are nothing. They know you are comparing, they know it doesn't matter either.

I've definitely saved a ton of money and walked out of bad shops by calling out time estimates. If they can't write a correct estimate, I figure they probably can't do a good repair either. I'm a believer in talking to 1 person means you are talking to the whole company. If the repair is expensive, I go get the book times on my own and verify.

EDIT:
sprintguy said:
So if that work on your brakes took the tech 1.5 hours per axle to complete than he made an extra 2 hours so instead of making 25$ an hour he made 41$ per hour (which is more like what a tech should be getting paid).
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That's what I'm talking about. Getting hours into the estimate is King for the service writer. They know you'll compare parts with Autozone, they know you'll compare $/hr with the independents. Book time is where the money is made. Oh yeah - big time.
 
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Kid347

Kid347

Member
Knowing that I can do a brake job on our 03 sprinters in an hour and a half, and I don't see anything that is really that difficult. I would have been happy to pay the $106.00 per hr but @ 1hr per axel. So if the total labor for a brake job came in @ $212.00 I would have been happy to pay it, I think that is fair. But when it comes to $400.00 plus I feel ripped off. The labor for the oil & filter was $48.00 I told them I thought that was fair. But $146.00 to change the fuel filter I feel ripped. I know everyone has to make a living, but is it possible for a win win ? can the shop/dealer make a living and the customer feel good about the job and the price paid.
 
Altered Sprinter

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Tins : Not NCV but it's the same deal:
4 hrs to Flush Brake fluid,change Rotors and pads plus sensors plus cleaning then re-fit brakes with fresh fluid and road test to bed-in brakes.

Yes the handbrake is also tested and adjusted and a visually check to the brake shoe applies both sides, these need to be cleaned of built up brake contamination BFV checked.
Piston bores are cleaned as rust and contamination is visible bearings are checked and serviced.

Note: it's not a one man job two service personal are required in part during the brake fluid refill as to bleeding the brakes.

I do mine personally on a four poster hoist but it only took 4 hrs with one and half men. The final diagnostic PC plug in is not required as this can be done manually to calibrate the brakes pressurization.

I will elaborate the twin piston Bosch brake system on both Tin and NCV may incur more time to calibrate the brakes. more cleaning is involved.
I'd allow more time on the twin wheel Sprinters.
What am I missing. with eight hours! that's over the normal ,omit..are they re-surfacing the pistions..I don't think so.
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4Hrs is straightforward without rust or contamination issuers... I'd say six hours maximum for bludgeon's yapping their talking heads off.:rant: With part time assistance, as it' is technically not a one man job..
Richard

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wildimaginations

wildimaginations

Wild Imaginations
It is expensive but I do them myself. I like spending the time under the van. Gives me the opportunity to see if there's something leaking, something missing, something ready to fall off and to enjoy the wonders of how well everything was put together.
 
gary 32

gary 32

07 ncv3 pv
Altered Sprinter said:
4 hrs to Flush Brake fluid,change Rotors and pads plus sensors plus cleaning then re-fit brakes with fresh fluid and road test to bed-in brakes.

Yes the handbrake is also tested and adjusted and a visually check to the brake shoe applies both sides, these need to be cleaned of built up brake contamination BFV checked.
Piston bores are cleaned as rust and contamination is visible bearings are checked and serviced.

Note: it's not a one man job two service personal are required in part during the brake fluid refill as to bleeding the brakes.

I do mine personally on a four poster hoist but it only took 4 hrs with one and half men. .

Proper Richard.

My Powermotive bleeder makes the brake fluid refresh a 1 man job with a flush, then drive with abs activation/pad bedding, then another light flush. For me to do everything correctly at home with a lot of tools and no lift, would take an honest 8 hours.

As Carl pointed out most mechanics here are paid flat rate and struggle to make a proper living. I know 2 mechanics I would trust to do this work correctly and not flat rate me for +-1,500 @ the dealer and +-1,200 @ an independent with parts and fluids. (4 wheels)
For that amount of money I would do it myself.
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N

NBB

Well-known member
gary 32 said:
My Powermotive bleeder makes the brake fluid refresh a 1 man job with a flush, then drive with abs activation/pad bedding, then another light flush. For me to do everything correctly at home with a lot of tools and no lift, would take an honest 8 hours.
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I wasn't under the impression the OP had a fluid change. I think we're talking pads and rotors - easy sleazy, 1 man job. 2.5 hours - that's the kind of time I am used to seeing for pulling out an engine or somesuch - not a brake job. I would have to see the 2.5 hours in print myself to believe it.
 
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