PDA

View Full Version : Fuel economy - Diesel V6


mattl
08-24-2007, 10:30 PM
Hey guys, just finished from racking up about 2000 miles on the new Sprinter 3500 chassis-cab with a dump box on it. I've got about 2200 mi on it total.

Anyway my main gripe so far is I am getting about 11-12 miles per gallon. In fact on the way out (starting at about 200 miles on the odo, and about 1000 lbs of wood in the box) I got around 13 MPG, on the way back with nothing I was getting 11-ish:thinking:

Speeds were all around 40 mi/h uphill to 75 mi/h and occasionally bumping the speed limiter after the 1000 mile mark on long downhill stretches. (BTW why is the speed limiter set to 130-132 km/h with tires rated for 160 km/h? Truck tracks so nicely I'd like to go at least 140 down the hills...)

I keep hearing "18-22 MPG" so I am really wondering why the fuel economy sucks so much. The box can't be THAT bad. BTW the trip computer said 12,4 MPG average and my own calculations give 12,7 with an assumption of how much more fuel is in the tank right now so it is bang on accurate.

Would like very much to get more since the truck is going to be doing another 3 000 miles in the next month or so and that is a lot more $$$.

Nice truck though except maybe for the stupid Mercedes-style early 2nd gear upshift.

Llarry
08-24-2007, 11:14 PM
Ouch! Do you have the 5.10 rear axle?

The choices are 3.92, 4.10 and 5.10. That might at least partly account for the poor fuel economy.

tab380
08-24-2007, 11:29 PM
What country are you in? You refer to MPG on fuel usage but KPH on Speeds. If your speedometer is set to kilometer per hour, shouldn't your odometer be in kilo per liter?
I'm just a dumb American and don't know such stuff since the US abandoned the metric conversion back in the 80s.:idunno:

mattl
08-24-2007, 11:49 PM
Ouch! Do you have the 5.10 rear axle?

The choices are 3.92, 4.10 and 5.10. That might at least partly account for the poor fuel economy.

My window sticker says 4.10. I get 3 000 r/min at 120 km/h - 75 mi/h in top gear.

Yeah excuse me for the metric, truck was purchased in the US and I'm a Canuck :D

The dealer set the dash to metric, so it is kind of weird. The analogue speedo reads miles, the trip computer reads miles (eg 2000 mls, 50 mph, 12 mpg) but the digital speedo on the lower display reads km/h and the odometer reads in km :laughing: I'm talking regular US MPG, not the weird Imperial one. I have the "steering wheel with buttons" dash.

As for fuel efficiency normally we use L / 100km (and I calculate about 19 L/100km) but I can't quite wrap my head around it because lower number is better.

Altered Sprinter
08-24-2007, 11:56 PM
3500 with box, is it a luton body? and have you had it weighed, that is empty stand alone and with a full load, 19 idicates your off the scale with fuel econamy, but it's still new, I assume your using Toby's ULSD FUEL shell or dodgey el cheapo junk.
Richard

mattl
08-25-2007, 12:00 AM
3500 with box, is it a luton body? and have you had it weighed, that is empty stand alone and with a full load, 19 idicates your off the scale with fuel econamy, but it's still new, I assume your using Toby's ULSD FUEL shell or dodgey el cheapo junk.
Richard

The box is a steel dump bed so it's mighty heavy but surely less than a ton. I've been using only ULSD, from big names so far (Ultramar, Petro-Canada, Irving). I seemed to be getting the worst economy with the Irving fuel but it might be that the Irving fuel was near my destination and the terrain was bad.

Looks kinda like this but it's a flat panel instead of the "loop" and it goes over the cab slightly. It's pretty short, I have the 144-in wheelbase
http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture98/mudanbus/product3.jpg
Haven't had it weighted yet... would like to though. Going to call the dealer next week too...

Altered Sprinter
08-25-2007, 12:26 AM
Steel dam that's half the problem look at this photo very carefully have you this rear end on your Sprinter Richard
3358

3359

3360

3361
Or this one Richard
3362

SprinterUSA1
08-25-2007, 01:22 AM
Mattl,


I have 1500mi on the clock with mine and like you said the computer is pretty darn accurate and averages 20.3 mpg.
The daily trip computer shows where you end up using more and where it uses less. On the Highway going only 65mph I am getting 18.5 mpg tops. Around town and at speeds around 45-55 mph it goes up to 22.6 mpg. Going up hill makes it go down quickly. The fuel warning comes on pretty early at a quarter of a tank of fuel. But with these numbers it does not hurt to get an early warning.
By the way this is with 4.11 axle ratio and almost empty. Have yet to put shelves and tools in the van.



Cheers SprinterUSA1

Altered Sprinter
08-25-2007, 01:42 AM
I have a bug in the PC it keeps dropping out
No I do not have shelves due to the nature of our operations we use so many different tools and cart stuff about there is no room for shelves, but we use the cargo barriers just in case
You seem to have the milage back the front hi-way should return a better MPG maybe its driving habits:idunno: My five Tonne Sprinter 518CDi sits on a thousand square mile flat dirt road most of the time it's preset for 65 Miles per hour so the boys don't get race happy so my 23MPG is the norm with a mile or two either way,
It would do less I think on coastal roads lots of gear changing speeds etc but it's up there for two more years now covered 42 thousand Ks no problems apart from cabin filters, dust from the roads.
Richard

SprinterUSA1
08-25-2007, 01:50 AM
You seem to have the milage back the front hi-way should return a better MPG maybe its driving habits:idunno:
Richard



Richard,

so you would think but I am getting better mileage a lower speeds than on the Highway at steady speed with cruise control. The Computer is right on the money with this stuff unfortunately. Driving habits? Right know I am probably driving like some of the retired folks. Real slow and no kick downs when accelerating even though that is so hard with the V6. You just want to make it go cause it can. My T1N did not make any difference between high and low speeds empty or loaded. The new toy on the other hand...:thinking:


SprinterUSA1

mattl
08-25-2007, 02:06 AM
Mattl,


I have 1500mi on the clock with mine and like you said the computer is pretty darn accurate and averages 20.3 mpg.
The daily trip computer shows where you end up using more and where it uses less. On the Highway going only 65mph I am getting 18.5 mpg tops. Around town and at speeds around 45-55 mph it goes up to 22.6 mpg. Going up hill makes it go down quickly. The fuel warning comes on pretty early at a quarter of a tank of fuel. But with these numbers it does not hurt to get an early warning.
By the way this is with 4.11 axle ratio and almost empty. Have yet to put shelves and tools in the van.



Cheers SprinterUSA1

Yeah I seemed to be getting the best economy around 50 mi/h but seriously, screw that... :laughing: 65-75 is more bearable. I seemed to be drinking more fuel on cruise so I did most of the drive without cruise (and I would speed up downhill and slow down uphill, where cruise would release throttle down and then floor it going up).

Anyway I've got the dually with a dump so I should drink more than you but not like half like I am getting hopefully.

Altered Sprinter
08-25-2007, 02:15 AM
Richard,

so you would think but I am getting better mileage a lower speeds than on the Highway at steady speed with cruise control. The Computer is right on the money with this stuff unfortunately. Driving habits? Right know I am probably driving like some of the retired folks. Real slow and no kick downs when accelerating even though that is so hard with the V6. You just want to make it go cause it can. My T1N did not make any difference between high and low speeds empty or loaded. The new toy on the other hand...:thinking:


SprinterUSA1 In fairness to your question , we have strict speed limits so the norm is 65 MPH I don't drive slow but also am carefull with stop start jerk and go trype driving, the old Sprinter has three very differnt MPG averages, because it follows the same or simular routes my averages are dead accurate It is only now that the fuel set is changing because it always was chock a block last week I could not find a small item and went and brought another the maze of junk in the back was awfull when I cleaned it out last week I found three of the same items, so i'm ashamed of myself, I look after the van it's spotless, but behind in the cargo area, even the local tip is better orginized:lol:
When I bought the V6 it was very new even in Europe My thoughts at the time were the V6 being a larger capicty engine that would use less fuel as it would not be using a higher rpm sort of a lazy engine! Nuts not thibking it's not the HP but the torque that's delivered to the rear end that counts.
I admit I am dissapointed in the lower 23MPG for a V6 I thought it would do 25 to 30Plus depending on use etc.
They are not popular in Australia, the 4-inlines are proving to be the superiour engine as were the older Sprinters.
This is speculation only part of the end fuel rate is based on Qyuality of Fuel driving the thing as well but by the way Mercedes has the mappuing done from the trans for fuel econamy, we have not one but three fuel rail bar settings 1200, 1600 and 2000Psi with three exhaust systems, so this is where many a mystory is going to occur, in different countries as to BUT WHY :thinking:. Again no offence meant the poor old US sprinters missed out on engine options and Tonnage weights up to the six and seven tonne limits, , this is already showing on this thread.
Richard

tab380
08-25-2007, 02:28 AM
Mattl,


I have 1500mi on the clock with mine and like you said the computer is pretty darn accurate and averages 20.3 mpg.
The daily trip computer shows where you end up using more and where it uses less. On the Highway going only 65mph I am getting 18.5 mpg tops. Around town and at speeds around 45-55 mph it goes up to 22.6 mpg. Going up hill makes it go down quickly. The fuel warning comes on pretty early at a quarter of a tank of fuel. But with these numbers it does not hurt to get an early warning.
By the way this is with 4.11 axle ratio and almost empty. Have yet to put shelves and tools in the van.



Cheers SprinterUSA1

You have a 4.11 axle ratio I though there was a chose of 3.92, 4.10 or 5.10. My window sticker states I have a 4.10 and I average about 16.8 mpg.:idunno:

SprinterUSA1
08-25-2007, 02:35 AM
You have a 4.11 axle ratio I though there was a chose of 3.92, 4.10 or 5.10. My window sticker states I have a 4.10 and I average about 16.8 mpg.:idunno:



Tab380,


sorry my mistake. Ratio is 4.10 But mileage as stated. Yours of course is the extended version with even more weight plus it is loaded already. I will see what happens with mine once I add all my toys plus shelving........ May have to tie some air balloons to the roof:smirk::smirk:.


Cheers SprinterUSA1

tab380
08-25-2007, 02:50 AM
Tab380,


sorry my mistake. Ratio is 4.10 But mileage as stated. Yours of course is the extended version with even more weight plus it is loaded already. I will see what happens with mine once I add all my toys plus shelving........ May have to tie some air balloons to the roof:smirk::smirk:.


Cheers SprinterUSA1

Balloons may help with weight but would have to much drag.
perhaps it you lined the inside like a blimp.:smirk:

SprinterUSA1
08-25-2007, 02:53 AM
Richard,


I am staying optimistic since the German boys are reporting slight improvements with the mileage after break in period.
I will never get 8.5-9l/100km ( 27.8/26.3mpg)as they claim with the 4 cylinders. I will have to try one out when I am over in good old Germany to see how they perform. Even if I would like them I will never own one since they are not offered in the States just like many other options.:cry:


Cheers SprinterUSA1


P.S. I have not heard back from Johnny yet about the 22" rims a "legalizing" them. May have to wait until I see him in September.

Altered Sprinter
08-25-2007, 03:06 AM
That's OK! Rims can wait
The Euro boys have the top end HP Diesel fuels so that does equate to fuel discrepancies on your end of the pond,
It is based on how you drive and weight configurations lead foot Say's it all:laughing:
Light weight Zeppelin air bags, Funny Bosh developed that system on the engines,
Thinking of "Stairway to Heaven!" and met Zep he's a little Blinded to see too.:tongue:
Richard
3363

jdcaples
08-25-2007, 04:07 AM
You have a 4.11 axle ratio I though there was a chose of 3.92, 4.10 or 5.10. My window sticker states I have a 4.10 and I average about 16.8 mpg.:idunno:

If you get a chance, would you mind looking at the label on the differential. I believe 4.10 on the window stickers - on the websites, everywhere, actually - may be a typographical error on the part of DaimlerChrysler's North American employees. In March of 2007, Dealerconnect - the dealership computer interface to the big North American machine - indicated 4.18.

This (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8327&postcount=36) is what was photographed by ctmcdaniel.

The 5.x ratio is for gasoline engines, if memory serves.

-Jon

bigblueox
08-25-2007, 09:17 PM
Mileage does improve with time on engine. I am at 298 hours and nearly 8500 miles according to the trip computer. (I have the steering wheel button setup as mentioned earlier in thread) My mileage has climbed from 16.5mpg/38 miles on clock to 23.1mpg/8500 miles on the clock. Day to day my average has climbed from low 22mpg up to 25.5mpg on average. My highest daily mileage was 235miles at 26.2mpg. I drive moderately off the line. Usually at the speed limit + 5mph. My driving consists of a pickup and delivery route with up to 3500# loads of cargo / average load being 500-1000#. I put up with lots of stop and go driving (huge mileage killer on my van) mixed with inter-city freeway driving 65mph max speeds. I would say I do about 25% inter city/25% suburban/50% highway&freeway cruising. My van is a 2500 high roof 144" wheelbase with the 4.11(4.18 according to some sources) axle. Hope your mileage improves as mine has. :2cents:

mattl
08-26-2007, 12:13 AM
If you get a chance, would you mind looking at the label on the differential. I believe 4.10 on the window stickers - on the websites, everywhere, actually - may be a typographical error on the part of DaimlerChrysler's North American employees. In March of 2007, Dealerconnect - the dealership computer interface to the big North American machine - indicated 4.18.

This (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8327&postcount=36) is what was photographed by ctmcdaniel.

The 5.x ratio is for gasoline engines, if memory serves.

-Jon

Does anyone know the gearing in 5th? My speedometer gives almost exactly 120 km/h (75 mi/h) at exactly 3 000 r/min and when I passed a radar sign the speedo seemed right on the money (perhaps 1 km/h optimistic). That is with 215/85/16 tires.

jdcaples
08-26-2007, 01:28 AM
Does anyone know the gearing in 5th?

I believe this is accurate:

First: 3.59
Second: 2.19
Third: 1.41
Fourth: 1.00
Fifth: 0.83


-Jon

Altered Sprinter
08-26-2007, 01:32 AM
Sixth? Richard:idunno:

mattl
08-26-2007, 02:05 AM
Sixth? Richard:idunno:

They are automatics out here remember ;) Really would love a stick though:shifty:

Altered Sprinter
08-26-2007, 03:40 AM
Solly:bash: Senior moment :crazy:
Richard

verojohn
08-29-2007, 12:06 AM
In the 4 months I've owned my '07 I've charted every tank of fuel for over 9,000 miles. If I run I-95 at WOT (82 mph-US) I get a about 16.75 to 17 mpg. If I drive around town at about a 40 mph average and no idling, I was once able to get 19.5 mpg and mostly hover around 17.75 mpg. That is checked with a calculator and filling it to the top of the neck each time.

gerrym51
08-29-2007, 12:57 AM
In the 4 months I've owned my '07 I've charted every tank of fuel for over 9,000 miles. If I run I-95 at WOT (82 mph-US) I get a about 16.75 to 17 mpg. If I drive around town at about a 40 mph average and no idling, I was once able to get 19.5 mpg and mostly hover around 17.75 mpg. That is checked with a calculator and filling it to the top of the neck each time.

perhaps its something to do with dpf regenerations. the dpf
uses extra diesel to perform its functions. different kinds of
driving etc causes it to trigger when it senses the dpf needs to be cleansed. perhaps this is causing some mileage loss.


gerry:idunno:

ctmcdaniel
08-29-2007, 01:19 AM
In the 4 months I've owned my '07 I've charted every tank of fuel for over 9,000 miles. If I run I-95 at WOT (82 mph-US) I get a about 16.75 to 17 mpg. If I drive around town at about a 40 mph average and no idling, I was once able to get 19.5 mpg and mostly hover around 17.75 mpg. That is checked with a calculator and filling it to the top of the neck each time.

Jon

can you post a few pics of what you have loaded in the van?

Thanks

Tom McD

Dewey
08-29-2007, 07:58 PM
I've done a few road trips in my passenger van. I haven't gotten better than 17.5 mpg going 65mph. Usually around 16.5 mpg going 70-75mph. City driving is no better. I only have 7800 miles on though.
4.18 gears/high roof.

tab380
08-29-2007, 08:52 PM
I get high 16s to low 17mpg combind and I have 9000 miles on my 07 loaded 2500 170 ext cargo.:thumbdown:
I got 20 mpg on my 03.

bigblueox
08-29-2007, 10:43 PM
25+ mpg daily average doesn't seem too shabby after seeing the 16-18 mpg posts. If I was getting that I probably would be looking to ditch my van. I am paying about $620 month right now...at 17mpg I would be paying nearly $300 more. Ouch.

mattl
08-29-2007, 10:44 PM
25+ mpg daily average doesn't seem too shabby after seeing the 16-18 mpg posts. If I was getting that I probably would be looking to ditch my van. I am paying about $620 month right now...at 17mpg I would be paying nearly $300 more. Ouch.

I burned almost exactly $620 in four days. Two days of which I didn't drive anywhere :laughing:

ChasM
08-30-2007, 01:50 PM
On my first trip from Sacramento, CA to Portland, OR (1,200 mile round trip), my '07 144", standard height, 4.18 rear end, diesel 2500 passenger van got averaged 23.5 mpg driving at a conservative 60 - 65 mph. The van was basically unladen, other than a passenger, dog and luggage.

We just got back from a 12 day 2,000 mile trip from Sacramento to the Pacific Northwest (Olympic Peninsula) towing a 5,000 lb travel trailer and carrying around 800 lbs in the van (passenger, motorcycle, gear, tools, etc). The Sprinter averaged 15.0 mpg driving conservatively at 55 - 60 mph. Note that the Sprinter handled this load amazingly well.

PLUMMER
09-01-2007, 03:30 AM
I just filled up 2 days ago with Sunoco diesel when I was at Milan dragway. It imediately showed a 1-1.5 MPG decrease in milage, from the Maratohon and shell I have been burnin. I have the 170 WB 2500 trip up north completely loaded, Polaris sportsman 4-wheeler, hunting gear, fishing gear, wife 2 kids, 3 Vizlas, 4 foot cooler with food and bev for a week, chainsaw and generator. 19.5-22 MPG . Overall trip averaged at 20.9 MPG. A/C decreased Milage by 1.2-1.9 MPG. Got some cheap fuel at a no name grocery market called Louie's in St. Helen , MI on the way home and it gave me even better milage. 3200+ miles on truck. No real big milage improvements since new, about 1mpg maybe. I've been testing soo many other fuels and additives, it would be hard to replicate the circle K fuel from vegas and Colorado, to see if there is an actual change now or 15K from now. On acceleration I get best milage when keeping rpms in 1st gear below 2600 then 2nd gear below 2300 and 4th below 2100 . If you listen to the engine the turbos almost never spool up or lite, telling you there is no big load on engine. It would be like watching the vaccum guage on the old Mercedes economy meter. I have found the cruise control to be the best unit on the market by far, unless your down hills are longer than your uphills it doesn't pay to milk it yourself, if so its too small to measure. Notice when using the cruise you will feel the turbos start to spool and the computer senses the load and lite the turbo to maintain speed quickly. Unlike say the cummins where it wil lag going uphill and the computer will never catch up to fuel and lite the turbo. Meaning "LITE" to keep the turbo and EGT's at their sweet spot for best safe fuel economy. Which in the cummins case is around 750 degrees to 800 degrees. You will see if you have guages that when you hit your sweet spot the boost will stay constant and the egts will come up to 750-800 and maintain. While you will feel more pull with less throttle, never having to downshift. It was difficult for me to understand until I was shown this by Dave Cummins and Kurt Haisley. You can also load your motor without cruise by loading or spoolin the turbos before you get to the hill, thus when reasching the base you've already built motor momentum,turbo is spooled and you shouldn't notice any lag in power of MPH just a sweeter sound of the turbo as you go up, more whistle.

I would pay more attention to what brand of fuel you purchase and correlate this with your milage. Oh and one more thing, Drafting helps huge and 25-40 feet is plenty. to do alot. I have seen upto 27.4 at 65 MPH while drafting, but only 20-22 when not. Hills did not seem to bother my overall milage since you have to come down them too.

SprinterUSA1
09-01-2007, 10:55 PM
Plummer,'

finally somebody out there that is getting mileage above 20mpg. What axle ratio do you have?


SprinterUSA1

PLUMMER
09-06-2007, 03:37 AM
I have the 4.18 rear axle. I am still wondering if the 3.92 is actually a better gear or not. I am thinking for my typical load about 2K or less it would be since I prefer to drive 70 and higher on the highway. but in the city 35-60 is what most of my driving is and I get well over 20 mpg this way. Some times to high of a gear like 3.92 or 3.73 can actuallly overload the motor. Kinda like starting off your 10 speed bike in 10th gear. I just got back from milan dragway tonite and was getting 22.0-22.8 MPG but with only 1000lbs or less on board. Ran 64-73 mph for 86 miles one way. The trip up noth this last weekend for labor day was getting about 19.8-20.2MPG Until I filled up at that Louie's groery again, then it increased an easy 2 MPG. I was actually seeing 24's. but with the AC on it kills MPG by 1.2-1.9 MPG. And I figured we had everybit of 2300 lbs in cargo. I have been noticing lately a little more grunt and turbo noise. Not bad just more aggressive sounding, no matter how its drivin. Sounds sweet. I hope when I addd the amsoil air filter and maybe a fresh air intake kit ( self fabricated from aluminum) that it will add tot he turbo sound. Love hearing that whistle. Not sure If I can decifer between the 2 turbos yet. 1 being more whuuuugh sounding and then the high pitched whistle. I am thinking it could use more low end boost tho, I have noticed some lag here and there and when it comes on hold on, almost feels like the 2-stroke coming on the power. Could you imagine 500 little CC's going 11.91 in the quarter @ 103 MPH, and heck it was 0-90 in 600' and 7 seconds. Then the 900 CC's went 9.005 @ 146 MPH...

PLUMMER
09-07-2007, 02:45 PM
Nother update, was driving the usual M-24 southbound and down. When suddenly I realized I needed fuel bad. unfortunately I was on a part of the highway interchange that had no exits for miles. So I quickly calculated my average MPG to see how much fuel I had left. Says I used 24.8 gallons. I still had 13-15 miles to go before the first fillin station. So I monitored the MPG's after reseting them to see how much I could squeeze out. ah only 26.4 MPG for the next 28 or so miles. Truck never sputtered, needle was slightly below the empty mark or last dash on the guage. Truck took 26.002 gallons necked up as usual. So now I wanted to see if I could keep the empty van running in the 26's or higher. Filled up at Marathon reset the dash and went on the way for the next 98 miles I averaged 25.3 MPG. Only had the extra 200 lbs of fuel plus..350 lbs of passenger and gear. What I was finding was keeping the engine between 1700-2200 on accelleration thru all the gears was best, you will always hear the second turbo here. Best MPG seemed to come from 1580 rpms but there was also a sweet spot at 62 MPH but I forget what the rpms were 2200 maybe a little less. in between was good also but you have to load the motor corectly. What I was noticing was at 62 MPH the turbo was screamin, nice steady high pitch. Almost no throttle, telling me it was lit, or at its sweet spot. and the MPG was climbing over 25+ MPG. I know these are short runs but my overall milage for the last two tanks is over 20 and this one is over 24.8. I do have to say tho I was milkin it pretty hard to get this milage. I do know if I had my EGT and boost guages I would be able to hold it at its sweet spot much easier. and see what is actually going on. Have to be careful of the 38-44 MPH area is can have a bog or when the turbo is not lit. It will just chug, unless you make it kick down. Normally the 42 MPH is a great sweet spot. but on some inclines or hills I was braking then half way up I would roll back in the pedal, only to hear the chug. Even tried blipin the trottle to spool up but it didn't work. The NOS is what I have to use to pull her out of situations like that. Talk about lighting the turbo fast with happy gas........

Dewey
09-07-2007, 07:07 PM
8500 miles now.
Peaked at 19mpg in northern Wisconsin while driving 60-65.
Averaged 16.0-16.5 going 75mph on the interstates.

gerrym51
09-07-2007, 08:00 PM
Nother update, was driving the usual M-24 southbound and down. When suddenly I realized I needed fuel bad. unfortunately I was on a part of the highway interchange that had no exits for miles. So I quickly calculated my average MPG to see how much fuel I had left. Says I used 24.8 gallons. I still had 13-15 miles to go before the first fillin station. So I monitored the MPG's after reseting them to see how much I could squeeze out. ah only 26.4 MPG for the next 28 or so miles. Truck never sputtered, needle was slightly below the empty mark or last dash on the guage. Truck took 26.002 gallons necked up as usual. So now I wanted to see if I could keep the empty van running in the 26's or higher. Filled up at Marathon reset the dash and went on the way for the next 98 miles I averaged 25.3 MPG. Only had the extra 200 lbs of fuel plus..350 lbs of passenger and gear. What I was finding was keeping the engine between 1700-2200 on accelleration thru all the gears was best, you will always hear the second turbo here. Best MPG seemed to come from 1580 rpms but there was also a sweet spot at 62 MPH but I forget what the rpms were 2200 maybe a little less. in between was good also but you have to load the motor corectly. What I was noticing was at 62 MPH the turbo was screamin, nice steady high pitch. Almost no throttle, telling me it was lit, or at its sweet spot. and the MPG was climbing over 25+ MPG. I know these are short runs but my overall milage for the last two tanks is over 20 and this one is over 24.8. I do have to say tho I was milkin it pretty hard to get this milage. I do know if I had my EGT and boost guages I would be able to hold it at its sweet spot much easier. and see what is actually going on. Have to be careful of the 38-44 MPH area is can have a bog or when the turbo is not lit. It will just chug, unless you make it kick down. Normally the 42 MPH is a great sweet spot. but on some inclines or hills I was braking then half way up I would roll back in the pedal, only to hear the chug. Even tried blipin the trottle to spool up but it didn't work. The NOS is what I have to use to pull her out of situations like that. Talk about lighting the turbo fast with happy gas........

Hey Plummer,


seems like an awful lot of work for mileage. i concede diesel
gets better mileage than gas.


gerry:bow:

PLUMMER
09-07-2007, 10:15 PM
for some, any little task requiring yourself to pay attention, is considered an awful lot of work. I would think for everyone as it has for me with my other trucks to be second nature, kinda like identifing a rough running engine. For some you have to explain everything in detail, otherwise they wouldn't have a clue. We all have to learn some way, or atleast we should. Why are you conceding anything ?????? Do you feel you have to ????:cheers:

gerrym51
09-08-2007, 12:43 AM
for some, any little task requiring yourself to pay attention, is considered an awful lot of work. I would think for everyone as it has for me with my other trucks to be second nature, kinda like identifing a rough running engine. For some you have to explain everything in detail, otherwise they wouldn't have a clue. We all have to learn some way, or atleast we should. Why are you conceding anything ?????? Do you feel you have to ????:cheers:

i stand upbraided

gerry:bow:

ewxlt
09-08-2007, 09:33 PM
At 1300 miles, my mixed driving seems to have jumped from 16.5 to 18.... please please please let this not be a fluke.:drool:

verojohn
09-09-2007, 11:40 PM
Jon

can you post a few pics of what you have loaded in the van?

Thanks

Tom McD

My 2007 van is set up with metal shelves, plumbing supplies and tools. It weighs in at about 6,500# (us) at the dump scales.

verojohn
09-09-2007, 11:51 PM
Nother update, was driving the usual M-24 southbound and down. When suddenly I realized I needed fuel bad. unfortunately I was on a part of the highway interchange that had no exits for miles. So I quickly calculated my average MPG to see how much fuel I had left. Says I used 24.8 gallons. I still had 13-15 miles to go before the first fillin station. So I monitored the MPG's after reseting them to see how much I could squeeze out. ah only 26.4 MPG for the next 28 or so miles. Truck never sputtered, needle was slightly below the empty mark or last dash on the guage. Truck took 26.002 gallons necked up as usual. So now I wanted to see if I could keep the empty van running in the 26's or higher. Filled up at Marathon reset the dash and went on the way for the next 98 miles I averaged 25.3 MPG. Only had the extra 200 lbs of fuel plus..350 lbs of passenger and gear. What I was finding was keeping the engine between 1700-2200 on accelleration thru all the gears was best, you will always hear the second turbo here. Best MPG seemed to come from 1580 rpms but there was also a sweet spot at 62 MPH but I forget what the rpms were 2200 maybe a little less. in between was good also but you have to load the motor corectly. What I was noticing was at 62 MPH the turbo was screamin, nice steady high pitch. Almost no throttle, telling me it was lit, or at its sweet spot. and the MPG was climbing over 25+ MPG. I know these are short runs but my overall milage for the last two tanks is over 20 and this one is over 24.8. I do have to say tho I was milkin it pretty hard to get this milage. I do know if I had my EGT and boost guages I would be able to hold it at its sweet spot much easier. and see what is actually going on. Have to be careful of the 38-44 MPH area is can have a bog or when the turbo is not lit. It will just chug, unless you make it kick down. Normally the 42 MPH is a great sweet spot. but on some inclines or hills I was braking then half way up I would roll back in the pedal, only to hear the chug. Even tried blipin the trottle to spool up but it didn't work. The NOS is what I have to use to pull her out of situations like that. Talk about lighting the turbo fast with happy gas........

All due respect but...I can't follow this post, did you hand calculate the mileage and how fast did you average in speed. I'm at over 10,000 miles now and the fuel report is consistent, 17 mpg average over 10,000 miles. This is in flat Florida in over 90 degree F. heat and combination driving, highway and city with a GVW at about 6,500#

gerrym51
09-10-2007, 03:21 AM
All due respect but...I can't follow this post, did you hand calculate the mileage and how fast did you average in speed. I'm at over 10,000 miles now and the fuel report is consistent, 17 mpg average over 10,000 miles. This is in flat Florida in over 90 degree F. heat and combination driving, highway and city with a GVW at about 6,500#

verojohn,

even though i talk gasoline engines i do think
that with a diesel you should be getting better mileage.

the only thing i can think of besides the obvious is
dpf regnerations( i know -he's a broken record). perhaps the manner you drive in your occupation causes more regnerations
than average.


gerrym:snore:

Jonquale
09-10-2007, 08:55 PM
This 3.0 V6 TDi engine is used in many applications including Mercedes Benz E320 CDI sedans (37+ mpg) , Mercedes ML320 CDI SUV (19 mpg), MB GL320 Blue Tech, The Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD (20/24 mpg) , The R series, and of course the Sprinter. There may be one or two more aplications I'm not aware of. So far it seems that it gets great mileage(MPG) in the Mercedes sedans. The mpg in both Mercedes SUVS and the Jeep Cherokee have been disappointing. Based on the above models, the Sprinter (with the 3.0 turbo diesel engine) should average out to 22 mpg in the long run IMHO. The good news is that this engine is running at 221 hp, and 400 ft/lb torque in some applications, and of course we now have a huge database of reference for this engine.

ewxlt
09-10-2007, 09:36 PM
Cool info. Thanks!

This 3.0 V6 TDi engine is used in many applications including Mercedes Benz E320 CDI sedans (37+ mpg) , Mercedes ML320 CDI SUV (19 mpg), MB GL320 Blue Tech, The Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD (20/24 mpg) , The R series, and of course the Sprinter. There may be one or two more aplications I'm not aware of. So far it seems that it gets great mileage(MPG) in the Mercedes sedans. The mpg in both Mercedes SUVS and the Jeep Cherokee have been disappointing. Based on the above models, the Sprinter (with the 3.0 turbo diesel engine) should average out to 22 mpg in the long run IMHO. The good news is that this engine is running at 221 hp, and 400 ft/lb torque in some applications, and of course we now have a huge database of reference for this engine.

verojohn
09-11-2007, 10:56 AM
verojohn,

even though i talk gasoline engines i do think
that with a diesel you should be getting better mileage.

the only thing i can think of besides the obvious is
dpf regnerations( i know -he's a broken record). perhaps the manner you drive in your occupation causes more regnerations
than average.


gerrym:snore:
I also have about 15 minutes of idle time that hurts too, but that much?
The best mileage I've seen with this van is 19.5 mpg and I'd love to get that routinely! Remember, I'm used to Ford E-250 V-6 gas powered vans getting 12 mpg with the same load.

gerrym51
09-11-2007, 02:11 PM
I also have about 15 minutes of idle time that hurts too, but that much?
The best mileage I've seen with this van is 19.5 mpg and I'd love to get that routinely! Remember, I'm used to Ford E-250 V-6 gas powered vans getting 12 mpg with the same load.

there's your problem. high amounts of idling creates more
particles in the dpf. more particles equal more rengenerations,
more diesel used to cause regenerative cleaning.


gerry

jdcaples
09-11-2007, 02:25 PM
I also have about 15 minutes of idle time....

Did you install a meter to track cummulative idle time?

-Jon

J.C.
09-18-2007, 05:39 AM
i have a late 07 4.10 high top 170" with about 1100miles and i get 16-19.

Propwash
09-23-2007, 04:12 PM
3rd trip to Seattle,2200 miles on the van I got 22.8 mpg . vital stats 144in. hi top with 392 rear gears.

Altered Sprinter
09-23-2007, 11:20 PM
i have a late 07 4.10 high top 170" with about 1100miles and i get 16-19.

3rd trip to Seattle,2200 miles on the van I got 22.8 mpg . vital stats 144in. hi top with 392 rear gears.
Now there is the differance between the the gears.
One takes the high road! The other takes the low road.
And your both on single rear wheels :rolleyes:
Richard

Expert Marine
09-24-2007, 12:35 AM
About 1200 miles, and steady 17-18 MPG.
Mostly highway doing 75.
144 with 4.10 V6 CRD loaded with supplies but not sure how much weight.

dasmith
09-24-2007, 04:55 PM
Just bought brand new 2007, 170", 3.92 rear, high top...first 150 miles from dealer, all highway, 75-80 mph....16 mpg

shoeinjoe
09-26-2007, 12:07 AM
Just got my 2007 sprinter last week. Its a 3500 with 170 WB. 11000 GVW, 410 rear end, 3.0 Diesel and duals on the rear. Averaged 19.5 MPG on the first tank. Went up to Richmond Va from NC by the back roads and averaged 20.7MPG. Went back home via I95&85 and averaged 18.7MPG. This was empty. It drove like a dream.

J.C.
10-03-2007, 12:36 AM
now i have about 2300miles i had it loaded with about 3000 pounds and it was about 18-20 after it was warmed up around town. it does seem to get another 1-1.5 better now. i think it might have to break in some more. does anyone know if the mpg gets better after it breaks in? i would guess 10k.

Altered Sprinter
10-03-2007, 12:56 AM
Fuel consumption will improve as the vehicle wears in.
MPG figures will vary from model to model, depending on how it is driven!! maintance to keep it at peak performance, each model depending on length, Height, dual wheels transmissions between manual and auto give a different reading so the latter is out for the US end, and final axle drive ratios, have all bearings to the final MPG figures, fuel quality and oils have an influence small but it's there The higher you go in MPH the less you will get, in fuel economy but the same applies if caught in city congestion for long periods stop start does not help while gear ranges are at different speed sets etc. There are three MPG standards as a guide Urban CBD and Hi-WAY use again it depends on the model configuration and how the engine is set via the trans to send the desired fuel required via the High pressure fuel pumps.
Bare in mind there may be difference as to US engine specs and Euro specs , with how the engine has been programed.
Richard
The below figure is for Gas models ! I''ll try and find the Diesel figure.. if it's there?
4063

jdcaples
10-03-2007, 05:36 AM
Model: North American 2500 144" WB cargo.
Payload: me and a few tools

Highway driving - 50 - 65 mph (I forget the nominal RPM)
Rear Axle: 3.92

Computer: 22 mpg
Fuel Pump meters and mileage: 22.3 mpg

Number of miles: 358

This entire week I'm only driving on city surface streets. The computer says 19 mpg. If I remember, I'll perform another calculation after I use the same pump to fill up again.

-Jon

fdl
10-07-2007, 06:40 PM
high roof
170 in
a/c on 95%
4.10 gears
3L crd

Stop and go delivery van. Average payload starts about 1500-2000 lbs. gets lighter as day goes by. run about 400 mi/week. Completely unloaded 35% +/-. Average by hand for first 3300 mi. is 18.6 mpg @ 23mph. Very hot south Louisiana New Orleans area. 60-63mph on I-10. EASY on the accelerations.
It beats the 5.9L Cummins but I hope it gets better. I want to get up to 20 mpg average.

Black Sheep
10-08-2007, 02:01 AM
I have the 07 144wb Hi Roof, load is 1,500-2,500lbs. My average is 17.6-19.8 in pretty much all urban city driving with 1,400mi on the clock. I have used some Albertsons 15ppm diesel and noticed a bit of a gurgling sound and a little stumble at 1,400-2,000? i am bringing it in on tuesday to have them check it out. Any ideas?
Oh, what is this "sweet spot", when I hear the high pitch turbo spooled up, am I at optimum econ? Do I need to try to keep it at that sweet spot?
When i drive it I run it to about 2,200 and let off a little to shift then get back into it and do the same through each gear until I'm at my desired speed. This seems to help my economy.

fdl
10-09-2007, 02:31 AM
I have noticed "the stumble" as well. Others have suggested it could be premature torque converter lockup. It happens to me- similar RPM range under mild acceleration, usually between 20-30 miles per hour. Please post what you find out. Thanks.

PLUMMER
10-09-2007, 03:00 AM
Black sheep the Sweet spot is different for all vehicle being TD's. But if you hear alot of turbo it usually means your burning more fuel . While at cruise you want to be at least boost as possible. But while accelerating , usually between 1700 and 2200 you will hear the high pitched whistle , this is the first and smaller turbo from what I can tell. The second larger Volume turbo only spools up when 3/4 throttle or more is depressed again from what I can tell. i am looking into boost guages and EGT's to helpp me find the sweet spot. Which is when you wil get the most economy. From the 5.9 cummins it was usually around 750 degrees. could be hotter or cooler for this one. I am gonna guess hotter because of the Emmissions regulations. Between 1700-2200 rpms you will get the best economy from take offs. Going over this will hurt MPG's. Letting up on your throttle between shifts will probablly be worse than keeping on the throttle. The change in foot pedal will change the TPS sensor to deactivate shift pressures and shift points. It can also change the wastegate let off point too it its program controled as well. It doesn't know that your wanting to increase in speed, it assumes since your off the pedal its going into cruise or no load condition, then you get back in it to increase speed and fuel after it shifts, thereby changing loads and TPS again. you can trick your tranny into lock up early and then when you need to be in a lower gear or not locked up, .... you can get the shudder = RSN, Or just a low rpm bog like slowly increasing in rpms. if you notice your auto trans is like no other gasser or even diesel trans , as the shift pressure and torque converter are like no other I have ever driven. Some how it feels like it shifts without ever missing a beat, I mean the part where you would normally notice a shift hesitation or time inbetween gears. It feels like an F1 tranny on the Ferrari's 430 paddle shifters or BMW F1 sport shift tranny. Its like banging gears without the bang. Its as smooth as a snowmobile CVT trans.

In any case a little whistle while acell is good , little whistle while cruise or no whistle while cruising is best. The goal is to never let the load or road conditions lower your rpm while your giving it more gas or holding steady. Remeber spooling her up and lighting the turbo before the load then you will get no bog or shudder at low rpms. If you read the Diesel register or diesel power magazine you can get far better explanations than the jargon I type on lighting and sweet spots.

PLUMMER
10-09-2007, 03:05 AM
By the way 6K miles and still getting over 21 MPG while under 72 MPH. Fuel brand so far has been the biggest determining factor to MPG. Marathon and Flying J as well as shell seem to be my best. Certain BP/Amoco's are good too. just pay attention to whether its #1 or #2 diesel. A/C is about 1.2-1.9 MPG decrease with me. Scales at 6232 LBS last time. Max so far was 8012lbs and mid teens for MPG 70 MPH or less.

Altered Sprinter
10-09-2007, 03:27 AM
By the way 6K miles and still getting over 21 MPG while under 72 MPH. Fuel brand so far has been the biggest determining factor to MPG. Marathon and Flying J as well as shell seem to be my best. Certain BP/Amoco's are good too. just pay attention to whether its #1 or #2 diesel. A/C is about 1.2-1.9 MPG decrease with me. Scales at 6232 LBS last time. Max so far was 8012lbs and mid teens for MPG 70 MPH or less.
Thats not bad give it some time and 23 will be the bench mark:thumbup:
Richard

Jonquale
10-09-2007, 03:46 PM
Black sheep the Sweet spot is different for all vehicle being TD's. But if you hear alot of turbo it usually means your burning more fuel . While at cruise you want to be at least boost as possible. But while accelerating , usually between 1700 and 2200 you will hear the high pitched whistle , this is the first and smaller turbo from what I can tell. The second larger Volume turbo only spools up when 3/4 throttle or more is depressed again from what I can tell. i am looking into boost guages and EGT's to helpp me find the sweet spot. Which is when you wil get the most economy. From the 5.9 cummins it was usually around 750 degrees. could be hotter or cooler for this one. I am gonna guess hotter because of the Emmissions regulations. Between 1700-2200 rpms you will get the best economy from take offs. Going over this will hurt MPG's. Letting up on your throttle between shifts will probablly be worse than keeping on the throttle. The change in foot pedal will change the TPS sensor to deactivate shift pressures and shift points. It can also change the wastegate let off point too it its program controled as well. It doesn't know that your wanting to increase in speed, it assumes since your off the pedal its going into cruise or no load condition, then you get back in it to increase speed and fuel after it shifts, thereby changing loads and TPS again. you can trick your tranny into lock up early and then when you need to be in a lower gear or not locked up, .... you can get the shudder = RSN, Or just a low rpm bog like slowly increasing in rpms. if you notice your auto trans is like no other gasser or even diesel trans , as the shift pressure and torque converter are like no other I have ever driven. Some how it feels like it shifts without ever missing a beat, I mean the part where you would normally notice a shift hesitation or time inbetween gears. It feels like an F1 tranny on the Ferrari's 430 paddle shifters or BMW F1 sport shift tranny. Its like banging gears without the bang. Its as smooth as a snowmobile CVT trans.

In any case a little whistle while acell is good , little whistle while cruise or no whistle while cruising is best. The goal is to never let the load or road conditions lower your rpm while your giving it more gas or holding steady. Remeber spooling her up and lighting the turbo before the load then you will get no bog or shudder at low rpms. If you read the Diesel register or diesel power magazine you can get far better explanations than the jargon I type on lighting and sweet spots.
Does this sweet spot RPM range hold true for all rear axle ratios?

PLUMMER
10-10-2007, 03:15 AM
Jonquale, I would say yes if your refering to the 3.92 and the 4.18. I think we established a 300 rpm difference between the 2 if I remeber right. I would think the program and torque load parameters will be the same for both rearends. So the 1700-2200 range will act the same and have the same Fuel/timing/boost mapping for the 2. Only difference would be the speed at which it occurs.


I don't know what was in that last tank of 2.95 BP fuel but it seemed rough the first day but all day today on a long strech of flat road it hit 26.2 MPG holding steady at 50 MPH and 2000 rpms. 4.18 rear gear. All tires inflated to 74 PSI , 80 PSI when hot or up to temp.

Black Sheep
10-11-2007, 03:35 AM
The surge I was talking about before is less noticeable when I use Shell V-power. The difference is that the V-Power does not return the same M.P.G as Albertson's El Cheapo 2.86 stuff, I'm seeing about -1.0 in it. The weather has cooled a bit here the past couple days and I have been able to run without A/C and it has put me at 20.2 & 20.7 the past 2 days. I am pleased with those #'s in all city driving w/ a 2,000lb load with only 1,700 on the clock. I have noticed better acceleration without the fan turning in the cooler weather as well. I wonder why I seem to get better mileage out of what seems to be a lower quality fuel from Albertson's? This is strange, it kind of reminds me of my wife, she protests less when I feed her the good stuff!:D

Dewey
10-13-2007, 03:21 AM
74psi all the way around? My fronts are 50 and rear are 70, just like it recommends on the driver side door. does yours say different? If so, I might air up my front tires!

kendall69
10-13-2007, 07:02 AM
I'm at 74 all the way around also. I don't understand why they would suggest 48 lbs, on the door, when the diesel engine is the heaviest part of the vehicle, over two wheels.

Makes the ride more rough, but steering is improved.

Tires indicate 74 for max load and I think a heavy engine is max load.

Sprinter
10-13-2007, 06:17 PM
When I had front tires at 47 PSI it felt like a flat, now they are at 70PSI, does not ride as soft actually it is little rough but mileage went up. With 20k miles now I get over 24MPG with 4.10 (sticker says 4.18) rear end but only on the lower speeds up to 55, using Shell fuel and RL-2. I also drive like a senior citizen and change gears at around 2000-2200 RPM. If I step on the pedal I can forget 24.
Unfortunately I am mostly on the highway at 65-70 where mileage goes down to 19-20, that's why I am looking to change ratio to 3.92 or less. Rear end alone is 4k$ so I have to find some other way...

BTW Dewey, A-10 must be very fun plane to fly...

Black Sheep
10-14-2007, 05:04 AM
Taller tires is going to be the easiest and cheapest way to improve the economy. I'm not sure if you can just buy the higher rear ring and pinion gears but if you could there would be some tuning that would need to be done to keep the ASC from having a fit.

Sprinter
10-15-2007, 01:03 AM
[QUOTE...there would be some tuning that would need to be done to keep the ASC from having a fit.[/QUOTE]

What do You mean, what is that?

and did You get bigger wheels? what should I look for 17-18"?

Altered Sprinter
10-15-2007, 01:11 AM
[QUOTE...there would be some tuning that would need to be done to keep the ASC from having a fit.

What do You mean, what is that?

and did You get bigger wheels? what should I look for 17-18"?[/quote]
Don't even think of 17-18' the latter is not available for a Sprinter of your year 17" has a lower profile tire and that comes from germany.PS only can be done on a single wheel unit limited with the 3500 series . as to weight ratios, 2500 series yes with 17' rims very expensive.
Richard.

Sprinter
10-15-2007, 01:24 AM
Hi Richard!

I made a mistake in my profile. I have the new Sprinter, it is 2007. NOT 2001

2500 so I guess I can get 17" tires no problem (other than price..)

Altered Sprinter
10-15-2007, 01:48 AM
Hi Richard!

I made a mistake in my profile. I have the new Sprinter, it is 2007. NOT 2001

2500 so I guess I can get 17" tires no problem (other than price..)

I knew what you were talking about, yes 17' for the 2500 series , remember alloy you lose some weight carrying capacity and your looking at least 3 Grand US dollars for these,with tires they are not cheap because your dollar on the US side has lost it's value and with Euro prices increasing this puts a dampener on your exchange rate, they look good , but what will you really save in the long run, except an added be but that will not increase the value of your van at trade back time. I don't think these are on offer from Dodge ! That is the 17" rim alloy:idunno:I might be wrong,,never bothered to look. PDF from Europe shows the options for rims.
Note you need the right bolts and spacers as well for the front , you may need to change stabilizer bars as well to compensate for weight transferred in differences again I'm not that sure about this , but there seems to be an issue if you do not follow MB's specs.
4298
Richard

unimog
10-15-2007, 09:49 PM
Rented a 2007 2500 sprinter this weekend and drove about 200 miles. It had 800 miles on the odometer. Mileage was just over 20 miles per gallon at mixed city driving. First time I had tried the suspension seat option. They were really nice and taking bumps at speed was fun.

SprinterUSA1
10-16-2007, 12:16 AM
@ All,


just got back from Germany. And yes, they do show 17" rims in their option list but they are not available yet and will not be for a while or not at all. Met with some of the German boys over there and they had inquired about the 17" also but no luck.
Your best bet will be to find a someone that can turn wheels for your Sprinter in the size you are looking for. I believe 17" are no problem but with 18" and up the speedometer will have to be adjusted and ideally the ESP Sensors and so on as well. Good luck finding someone that is willing and capable of doing so. Arne put 18" on his and it took him some time and effort to get his speedometer calibrated. Now he has to stand right next to the mechanic everytime his Sprinter goes in the shop and gets hooked up to the diagnosis computer to make sure the speedsignal does not get reset to 16" again when updating.


Cheers SprinterUSA1

anomaly
10-16-2007, 02:31 AM
I'm averaging about 20 combined road trips and in town, but last night I was thrilled to see this! I just HAD to take a picture.
4304

mean_in_green
10-16-2007, 02:08 PM
Do we know for sure whether this display is in US or 'normal' euro gallons?

Altered Sprinter
10-16-2007, 02:16 PM
25+ great :thumbup:Richard

anomaly
10-16-2007, 03:02 PM
Do we know for sure whether this display is in US or 'normal' euro gallons?

What do you mean "normal euro gallons?" Don't you know that US measures are *the* standard? We're the center of the universe, you know! :)

(Note I didn't say centre.)

I happen to know for sure that the display is in US gallons, and was thrilled to see any trip exceed 25. It got to 25.3 at one point.:bounce:

SprinterUSA1
10-17-2007, 12:03 AM
Do we know for sure whether this display is in US or 'normal' euro gallons?



It shows Us gallons. I check it everytime I fill it up. And the Computer is right on the money.\

What are Euro Gallons anyway? Liter?


SprinterUSA1

Sprinter
10-17-2007, 12:51 AM
Anomaly! this is very nice mileage, looks like in this "competition" You are second right after Plummer with 26 MPG. Not including Altered with his Australian Sprinter because six speed manual is whole different category, we can't match

Zach Woods
10-17-2007, 01:08 AM
What are Euro Gallons anyway?

SprinterUSA1

Hello SprinterUSA1 -

What folks are calling "Euro Gallons" in this thread are most likely Imperial Gallons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_Imperial_and_U.S._customary_syst ems#Volume).

1 Imperial Gallon equals roughly 1.201 US Gallons.

Many folks feel that this could explain some of the different fuel mileages that get reported frequently for Sprinters.

For example, if I was getting 20 mpg's using the US Gallon measurement I would be getting roughly 24.2 mpg's using the Imperial Gallon measurement. This may just fit the two different "levels" of Sprinter fuel mileage that we so often hear about. There seems to be a cluster of folks getting something in the 18 to 22 mpg range and a cluster of folks getting something in the 22 to 26 mpg range.

I also think we could probably relate the two mpg ranges to driving style with those driving at or below the speed limit getting the higher mileage and those driving at or above the the speed limit getting the lower mileage.

To play this out fully, I suppose this means that the highest mileage figures would likely come from someone who drives at or below the speed limit AND is using the Imperial Gallon measurement for their calculations. And the lowest mileage champs would be leadfoots that are calculating based on the US Gallon amount!

Zach

Altered Sprinter
10-17-2007, 01:26 AM
It shows Us gallons. I check it everytime I fill it up. And the Computer is right on the money.\

What are Euro Gallons anyway? Liter?


SprinterUSA1
I Imperial gallon = 4.54609188 Litres exact
4 UK quarts = 4.545 L rounded off
1 US gallon ......= 3.7854118 litres exact
4 US quarts = 3785 rounded off
1 litre is universal a standard metric conversion world wide.

Anomaly! this is very nice mileage, looks like in this "competition" You are second right after Plummer with 26 MPG. Not including Altered with his Australian Sprinter because six speed manual is whole different category, we can't match
For Anomaly 25 should be the bench mark for his model even with auto
The larger the van with different options as to lengths height and final axle drives will show different figures.
My 06 model 07 your end..does exactly 23 US MPG Manual and auto , yes there are differences as it is more effective to use as opposed to Auto.
The rule of thumb was an auto is 5% less fuel efficient than a manual. if power steering is used minus 2%, if air con is used minus a further 5% Speed factors and driving conditions all have the factors for final figures.
The larger vans should return 20 to 23 MPG , cab chassis models for some reason return less, but this would be based on how the model is set up for weights add a luton body on a standard cab chassis and you just maxed the load limits, so to Carry any thing more than Styrofoam would exceed it's capacity to perform to the weight it is configured to as to GVWR's which would return a poor 16 MPG as an indicator. the same applies to an overloaded RV! if it has a standard 2500 series configuration. Driving habits are the key to better fuel results, and quality fuels go a long way to-wards the final MPG result as well.

Indicator for CDI reference for a US CDR is 2500 series = SWB 218 CDi 3500 series = LWB 318 CDi Mine is a LWB High top-518 Cdi rated down to 4.9T so 23 MPG is exceptional for this model.
Richard

anomaly
10-17-2007, 01:48 AM
1 litre is universal a standard metric conversion world wide.

Universal? Didn't cover that when I said we were the center of the universe? :)

Yes, I know that the official standard of measure in the US for more than the last 100 years. (Since 1893 to be exact.) (http://ts.nist.gov/WeightsAndMeasures/Metric/lc1136a.cfm)


For Anomaly 25 should be the bench mark for his model even with auto

No kidding. I was pretty shocked. I credit the mileage to

a) driving under 55
b) using cruise control
c) it was a cool night - low density air
d) no rear A/C 'cause the kids said it was cold

I doubt it will soon be repeated, and I'm averaging 20 or less in "regular" driving, but it was fun while it lasted.

Altered Sprinter
10-17-2007, 02:01 AM
Universal? Didn't cover that when I said we were the center of the universe? :)
:lol:I like that one
Quote: Who are you! Who am I? "I am who I am" and you are who! 'you are' ...
As for the centre of the universe .."I am one":thumbup:

Yes, I know that the official standard of measure in the US for more than the last 100 years. (Since 1893 to be exact.) (http://ts.nist.gov/WeightsAndMeasures/Metric/lc1136a.cfm)


No kidding. I was pretty shocked. I credit the mileage to

a) driving under 55
b) using cruise control
c) it was a cool night - low density air
d) no rear A/C 'cause the kids said it was cold

I doubt it will soon be repeated, and I'm averaging 20 or less in "regular" driving, but it was fun while it lasted.
As your engine breaks in up to 12 thousand miles the differences will improve in MPG,,Me thinks! but then again ..'Who am I, to judge':smilewink: That was a neat reply Anomaly:thumbup:
Richard

PLUMMER
10-17-2007, 02:29 PM
I have always backed up the computers calculations with hand calculations, as I have had bad expirience with other veihicles and their not so accurate DIC's. Surprisingly, but reallly shouldn't be since its an MB. Hand calc is within .1 of the computer. Most it was ever off was .3 and that was before I have been toping it off to exact same spot on the filler neck. I also noticed that rockin the van never seems to make the level go down like other vehicles.

In short order testing so far the Amsoil seems to really help the low end but not much MPG increase so far on cruise averages. Just a couple tenths so far in the preliminary miles. But real city ,late for the customers hot water heater leak driving conditions the curent amsoil/summer blend is doing much better on MPG's for acceleration and driving under 45 MPH.....lots of stop and go's but little change in overall MPG. As before each start and accell upto 45 MPH would usually drop MPG about .1 to 1.5 depending on the amount of miles on the dash. Still keeping with all shifts between 1800-2400 and sometimes more rpms. Stil does hurt so far.


So what kind of demand would there be if say we turn the Bridgeport CNC on and cut a few pieces of exotic aluminum alloy for rims. Simple designs are obviously cheaper to cut since there are far fewer lines of code.

And an increase in tire size by 1" more in diameter or 2" more in diameter would change the gear ratio to what. from a 4.18???Would it make it a 3.92 or higher gear?

mean_in_green
10-17-2007, 06:56 PM
1 Imperial Gallon equals roughly 1.201 US Gallons.

Many folks feel that this could explain some of the different fuel mileages that get reported frequently for Sprinters.

For example, if I was getting 20 mpg's using the US Gallon measurement I would be getting roughly 24.2 mpg's using the Imperial Gallon measurement.
Zach

Erm...

Except that (if one imperial gallon = 1.201 US gallon):

An American sprinter acheiving 20 US mpg would, in imperial terms, have been acheiving 16.6 mpg, i.e. less in imperial than in US terms.

Simon

mean_in_green
10-17-2007, 07:00 PM
.
So what kind of demand would there be if say we turn the Bridgeport CNC on and cut a few pieces of exotic aluminum alloy for rims. Simple designs are obviously cheaper to cut since there are far fewer lines of code.

And an increase in tire size by 1" more in diameter or 2" more in diameter would change the gear ratio to what. from a 4.18???Would it make it a 3.92 or higher gear?


Are you serious Plummer? - I would be interested.

Simon

jdcaples
10-17-2007, 07:41 PM
...
So what kind of demand would there be if say we turn the Bridgeport CNC on and cut a few pieces of exotic aluminum alloy for rims. Simple designs are obviously cheaper to cut since there are far fewer lines of code.

And an increase in tire size by 1" more in diameter or 2" more in diameter would change the gear ratio to what. from a 4.18???Would it make it a 3.92 or higher gear?




Wheels: I think the demand would be too small for a corporation to justify the research, development, manufacture and marketing efforts. The notion fits nicely with a small business venture.

Do you own a Bridgeport computer numerical controlled metal munching machine?

Rotational / Distance calculators:

Axle gear ratio/transmission gear ratio/engine speed: http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_speed_rpm.htm

Tires/wheels

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTireMath.dos

Pick a commonish wheel size for which there is a wide array of mainstream rubber choices :)

For instance a wheel that will fit tire size of LT 265/70 R17.



-Jon

PLUMMER
10-17-2007, 10:44 PM
Yes....No.....but there are about 4 in the family and one at Uncle's house in the barn. Wife's side of the family are all tool and die tradesmen. If they don't own a big Co, they are VP or floor supers. Uncle Mel has a FULL machine shop in the barn. So if I knew what to cut it should be just a matter of buying billet material and write the program and cut away. I do not know how much the material will cost. They have cut some very nice wheels for Voodoo choppers. They would also be able to fit the air presure sensors in there. Which I believe is the biggest limiting factor. We have made some really cool useless stuff before. Other uncle makes all of the extra armor for the vehicles in Irag and Afghanistan for IED's. Again in a HUGE barn and its just a hobby/job. Since he sold his shop a few years ago. All cut with a water jet as to not detemper the armor plate. All I can do is some research and see from there.

Altered Sprinter
10-17-2007, 11:10 PM
Actually Plumber has a valid point re billeted rims and changing the values of ratios. tires play the factor and those are not custom made unless you are prepared to pay and pay, remember the Sprinter is sold as a work horse and the passenger van is just that extra seats on a commercially based van nothing more.
However in Thinking what jon said I doubt if MB would bother! They do through there own development but in most cases via their partnerships Brabus Carson etc for example.
One Hi profile security units such as the Sprinter have reinforced rims and different sises depending on weights as plumber stated Iraq , for reinforcement for steel to be added on units etc, Mercedes does these for one off on a separate line all components are hand made, to configure to armor plating and weights.
On the Lighter side of life where fun comes into the Sprinters custom alloy rims reconfigured to Mercedes weights and balances are made re Brabus the pocket rocket ship of the Sprinter line AMG also did one with 20" rims again custom made to suite the application ,.
Thinking if Plummer's Unc has the shop and the expertise to carry out the mods that conform to the weights and balances then it would work , Engineering the calculations would not be that hard put it into a Cad design and the values will automatically run up the final figures Brilliant idea , :clapping:As to the cost of research and development for a set $$$$$$$ 6000 grand minimum for resale This is the price you would pay for a Hi performance rim on a AMG Brabus V12 unit the tires Italian made cost as much =12 grand and that's for an entry price not for the track.
I'd envy anyone who could come up with a custom made rim that at least complies , it would be awesome, But I could not afford them as my vans are work horses that have to pay their way.
Richard

Sprinter
10-18-2007, 12:38 AM
[QUOTE=
My 06 model 07 your end..does exactly 23 US MPG Manual and auto [/QUOTE]

Wow! I am really surprised, I know those auto transmissions have minimal power loss but I thought that manual having sixth gear drops RPM drastically. So what RPM's You get on the 6th let's say at 65 MPH?


Thanks for this link to the calculator, it looks very good with 17" rims, even better with 17+3.92 axle.

Guys, it's hard to believe there is no way to buy 17" rims for Sprinter, why so? The guys transforming their Hondas or Impalas have no problem finding any size rim and they usually don't care about performance, it's just for the look. There's gotta be something

But if not I would be Your first buyer, Plummer...

Altered Sprinter
10-18-2007, 02:36 AM
Sprinter
My 518 CDi is just that, a full five tonner not a US ton, but a Metric tonne, total approx 2200lbs per tonne cobined 1100LB it has a suspension upgrade to take 14000LBS, and it's an automatic not a manual .
This Sprinter is on a dirt or hard sand surface full time no sprinters with in 28 thousand sq kilometers to be found it's on private property.
The nearest MB repair shop is Darwin so all advise for repairs, are done on line to Europe via MB , this unit is under Government contract for survey work , mineral exploration and as to environmental impact studies, prior to any company activity such as BHP Billton getting their grubby little hands on our earth..This a full five year impact study, fuel is bought in drums 44 gallons per barrel not that fresh either, but all equipment is there to service it, as we have Freightliner trucks modified to haul 76 Tonne at any given time, the mechanic and techs are MB trained we stole them from Sydney , at a salary package of AU $ One hundred and twenty thousand per annum with bonus , the sprinter is fault free, Taht freight train don't like the heat so we have cooling issues with that one. Sixth gear is like overdrive so the RPM should be at the low end of no less than 2100 to 2300 RPM at 65 MPH but don't quote me on it.
17' is available if you import from Germany.
Sprinters are not Hondas or Chev impalas
The stud pattern is unique the offset is different, no real adjustments as such with toe in or toe out very limited,and they are designed to take the weight, aftermarket ones are set to lower weight configurations such as a one ton vehicle that is classed as such the base rate for a Sprinter starts at 2.7 to 3.2 Tonne on the 2500 series depending on it's set up to suspension upgrades or options.
Tires low profile where are you going to get them from? that have a full Class C rating of eight ply, any thing less will either roll on itself as to the shouder of the side wall being too soft, or will fracture! under load and fail, apart from getting very poor life support for the tire itself.
Look on the door panel as to tire pressures, and then look at your manual these pressures are based on the vehicles weights , as to a lower pressure , remember the tires are of radial construction not conventinal, that sit taller increase the pressure on the tire out side of the specifactions, tempurture control readings will result in the on board computer to play up with ABS ASR BAS ROM LAC USC as to ESP stabilty program which may effect, load control settings to self correct the load shifts, a slide may not help if you lose the van on a slippery surface.
Jon's link is neat for calculating the ratios I like that one .
Richard

jdcaples
10-18-2007, 03:55 AM
Jon's link is neat for calculating the ratios I like that one .
Richard

Thanks, guys.

:bounce:

mean_in_green
10-18-2007, 11:02 AM
Just a suggestion: use a stainless trim such as those already discussed as a pattern for the visible side of a wheel?

The rest is beyond my understanding!

StElmo
10-18-2007, 02:43 PM
Pen and paper method in our 144" Wagon with 10500 miles = 20.02 mpg for our last fill up (all the way to the lip). I will post the numbers for the last 10K miles. I think the average during the first break-in period (10135 miles) was 18.85. The killer is sitting at idle and RPMs above 2600. Lately we've been consistently getting multiple 19+ mpg tanks.

mattl
10-19-2007, 11:09 PM
Erm...

Except that (if one imperial gallon = 1.201 US gallon):

An American sprinter acheiving 20 US mpg would, in imperial terms, have been acheiving 16.6 mpg, i.e. less in imperial than in US terms.

Simon

What are you talking about? The relative number for the same fuel efficiency gives a larger number in Imperial gallons and a smaller number in US gallons, because an Imperial gallon is a larger volume of fuel and thus you go a further distance for the same efficiency.

StElmo
10-20-2007, 03:08 AM
As promised, here are our hard numbers: Our Numbers (http://mysite.verizon.net/res8c5if/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/sprinterfueleconomy.xls).

FWIW, all gallons are in US, miles are statue miles. :) I would love to graph the numbers for trends, but not keeping record of our average speed for each fill-up (don't have the uber computer to tell us), the graphs would be worthless and not allow us to draw any correlation. However, the spread-sheet is a decent accounting tool.

Sprinter
10-21-2007, 03:12 AM
I'm averaging about 20 combined road trips and in town, but last night I was thrilled to see this! I just HAD to take a picture.
4304

Anomaly! I would like to have the same picture in response but my cluster is not so fancy so here's the best I can do

First picture shows the best economy point on the highway - 2400 at 59-60MPH. At this speed I make 485 miles on 20 gallons(24.25 MPG) Second picture shows 240 miles on 10 gallons, that's right after 4th bar goes off and yes - it's uneven but = remaining 5bars. I don't use remaining 5G reserve, I refill when last bar starts blinking. I took this picture at half tank cause I wasn't patient enough to go all the way at 60 MPH.

mean_in_green
10-21-2007, 07:12 PM
What are you talking about?

The assumption that:

"Except that (if one imperial gallon = 1.201 US gallon):

wasn't mine - I took it at face value.

Thanks for clarifying the volume difference - I was unaware.

cookie man
10-25-2007, 12:24 AM
With 5 sprinters in our delivery fleet i am extremely disappointed with the new v6 sprinters mileage.
Under the same conditions we average 22-24mpg with all 4 T1N vans.
And 16-17 with the NCV3

We were expecting at least 20mpg with the new model.
our vans carry light loads with a good mix of freeway and city driving.

Is this what new sprinter owners should expect?

Maybe MB should go back to the old motor??
I havenít noticed any difference in power compared to the 5cyl.

As a business, the mileage benefits of the sprinters are the main reason for purchasing these vans.

we will not be adding any NCV3 models to our fleet unless #'s improve.

ewxlt
10-25-2007, 12:29 AM
I'm with you. I'm at 4k and the mileage seems to have gone up a skosh. 18.7mpg this tank with about 65% highway and 35% city.

Prior, that number was below 17mpg.

I'll be VERY bummed if things don't look up.

But, my Nissan Titan was averaging 11.8mpg around town and 14 highway.

With 5 sprinters in our delivery fleet i am extremely disappointed with the new v6 sprinters mileage.
Under the same conditions we average 22-24mpg with all 4 T1N vans.
And 16-17 with the NCV3

We were expecting at least 20mpg with the new model.
our vans carry light loads with a good mix of freeway and city driving.

Is this what new sprinter owners should expect?

Maybe MB should go back to the old motor??
I haven’t noticed any difference in power compared to the 5cyl.

As a business, the mileage benefits of the sprinters are the main reason for purchasing these vans.

we will not be adding any NCV3 models to our fleet unless #'s improve.

bigblueox
10-25-2007, 12:13 PM
To add to the disappointment...your mileage may not improve much with time on the engine, miles logged. I am over 17000 miles and the mpg is the same as at 6000 miles. Absolute best has been 26.2mpg vs. 31.6mpg in my T1N. Average is about 23mpg vs 29mpg in my T1N. So it appears a 5-6 mpg loss T1N to NCV is about right.

The NCV is also much more sensitive to driving style to get the best mpg. It requires much forethought and diligence which most people myself included find tiresome after awhile. Therefore driven without care as I did my 2003 E350 (5.4l V8 long box 3.55 rear end) it gets only about 4mpg better(20mpg vs 16mpg) To get the top mileage 24mpg plus requires incredible patience and consideration to what your right foot is doing.

The NCV is definitely closer to an all american full size pick up truck than an economical european style van as was the T1N.

SprinterUSA1
11-25-2007, 03:07 AM
Mattl,


I have 1500mi on the clock with mine and like you said the computer is pretty darn accurate and averages 20.3 mpg.
The daily trip computer shows where you end up using more and where it uses less. On the Highway going only 65mph I am getting 18.5 mpg tops. Around town and at speeds around 45-55 mph it goes up to 22.6 mpg. Going up hill makes it go down quickly. The fuel warning comes on pretty early at a quarter of a tank of fuel. But with these numbers it does not hurt to get an early warning.
By the way this is with 4.11 axle ratio and almost empty. Have yet to put shelves and tools in the van.



Cheers SprinterUSA1




Here is a follow up on my mpg. Now 7000mi on the clock.

Now that I have most but not all of my shelving in the van and of course tools also I am getting around 16-19mpg at speeds between 45-55mph. The build ins and tools probably add another 800lbs give or take.

Towing a small dump trailer makes the whole scenario worse. I am getting 12-14mpg.

I am doing a lot of short distance and stop and go driving.


Today, on the highway and towing the trailer (empty weight 2600lbs) I was averaging 16.1mpg at 65mph one way and 15.5mpg at 60mph and loaded trailer and van (600lbs) on the way back.

Aside from the mpg's I am impressed with how nicely it tows up and down the hill and on the flat. That is once it is up to speed. It takes a little while to get there unless you do a kick down. You could almost forget that you are towing something.
Wondering if the 3.92 ratio would be sufficient for towing if you do not mind the acceleration process taking even longer?


SprinterUSA1

Sprinter
11-25-2007, 03:17 AM
We must be on winter fuel now (worse) I don't see 23-24 anymore

Altered Sprinter
11-25-2007, 03:48 AM
Use RED_LINE 85 Plus to compensate for Cetane loss
Recommended for Winter fuels
Richard
Improves fuel efficency up to 5%
Lubricates injectors and pumps.
Helps prevent fuel sytem problems.
Boosts Cetane 3-9 Centane numbers
Cleans injectors
Reduces engine knocking and nailing.
Will not harm exhaust traps or catalysts.
Reduces smoke and diesel emissions.
Removes water from fuel tanks.
Treats 25gallons for clean up dose.
Traets 100 gallons for antiwaer, and to improve cleanliness and efficency.
EPA Registered additive for Diesel fuel.
http://www.redlineoil.com
Richard

gerrym51
11-25-2007, 04:30 PM
With 5 sprinters in our delivery fleet i am extremely disappointed with the new v6 sprinters mileage.
Under the same conditions we average 22-24mpg with all 4 T1N vans.
And 16-17 with the NCV3

We were expecting at least 20mpg with the new model.
our vans carry light loads with a good mix of freeway and city driving.

Is this what new sprinter owners should expect?

Maybe MB should go back to the old motor??
I havenít noticed any difference in power compared to the 5cyl.

As a business, the mileage benefits of the sprinters are the main reason for purchasing these vans.

we will not be adding any NCV3 models to our fleet unless #'s improve.

the problem with the new 2007 sprinters is not necessarily the
engine.

i know i've said this before but to say again.

The DPF filter works by spraying diesel fuel directly into
the dpf from the fuel tank. this is to burn the particle buildup!

this fuel that is not burned thru the engine.

obviously if you remove fuel directly from the tank
you will get worse mileage. DPF's were not on diesel engines
prior to 2007.

DPF regenerations are variable depending on how driven.

the more regenerations the more fuel used !

i have no clue to the formula for regenerations because
the manfacturers are ambigouous about it


gerry:idunno:

Xperia
11-25-2007, 06:25 PM
I drive at least 250 miles per day 7 daze a week so with diesel "sprinting" to $3.69 per gallon here in Seattle i bought (2) 2007 dodge 3500 cummins 4x4's (1 dually and 1 SRW) and had them equipped with 105 gallon underbody steel fuel tanks so I can load up on "cheap" diesel when i can find it. I also bought my 2007 2500 170 ext. sprinter to replace the ford e350's i had been running. even at 18.5 to 20.5 mpg I'm getting there is nothing else to compare with the Sprinter. I plan to have custom steel tanks built for the Sprinter soon and I'll post pics asap (likely a 2 tank system like my dodge pickups, one to replace the stock plastic tank and another in back where the spare mounts. they will use the stock filler neck for both tanks and a timed transfer pump to move the fuel)

jdcaples
11-25-2007, 06:44 PM
i have no clue to the formula for regenerations because
the manfacturers are ambigouous about it


gerry:idunno:

Here's some food for thought.

-Jon

Sprinter
11-25-2007, 07:39 PM
Use RED_LINE 85 Plus to compensate for Cetane loss
Richard


Altered, I had RL 85 before, now I have RL-3 Winterized I use it all the time so this drop in mileage would be even bigger without use of the lubricants.

SteveN
11-25-2007, 11:08 PM
Just rolled over first 1000 miles - 19.6 mpg average over first 1000 mile breakin period. (Roughly 50/50 highway/local)

2007 3.0l diesel -Passenger 144" WB -High roof with rear A/C ( not used yet) 3.92 axle ratio.

Will update in 1000 mile intervals

Initial conclusion - I'm not going to save much money in operating costs with diesel @ 15% premium to regular gas and oil changes @ $100+ ( materials only) :crazy: BUT driving the Sprinter is the most fun I've had behind the wheel in years and that counts for something! :D

Sprinter
11-26-2007, 02:39 PM
the problem with the new 2007 sprinters is not necessarily the
engine.

i know i've said this before but to say again.

The DPF filter works by spraying diesel fuel directly into
the dpf from the fuel tank. this is to burn the particle buildup!

this fuel that is not burned thru the engine.

obviously if you remove fuel directly from the tank
you will get worse mileage. DPF's were not on diesel engines
prior to 2007.

DPF regenerations are variable depending on how driven.

the more regenerations the more fuel used !

i have no clue to the formula for regenerations because
the manfacturers are ambigouous about it


gerry:idunno:

OK then, so how do I remove this DPF?:hmmm::thinking::thumbup::laughing:

mean_in_green
11-26-2007, 04:04 PM
Is it really a major contributing factor to fuel economy, given the typical mileage in between DPF cycles?

Or, put another way:

At what intervals are people seeing their DPF performing?

gerrym51
11-26-2007, 11:00 PM
OK then, so how do I remove this DPF?:hmmm::thinking::thumbup::laughing:

you cannot legally remove it. doing so will also void your
warranty

gerry:wtf:

gerrym51
11-26-2007, 11:13 PM
Here's some food for thought.

-Jon

jon, i read it but honestly did not understand it although
replace dpf stood out.

how much to replace


gerry:idunno:

gerrym51
11-26-2007, 11:15 PM
Is it really a major contributing factor to fuel economy, given the typical mileage in between DPF cycles?

Or, put another way:

At what intervals are people seeing their DPF performing?

mean in green.

however much diesel it steals from tank is still diesel
not used in engine. number of regenerations plus
length of regeneration.

i actually have never been able to find out just
how much used.


gerry:thumbup:

anomaly
11-26-2007, 11:24 PM
mean in green.

however much diesel it steals from tank is still diesel
not used in engine. number of regenerations plus
length of regeneration.

i actually have never been able to find out just
how much used.


gerry:thumbup:
Technically you're right, but I can't imagine that it's a significant factor. I've got about 3200 miles on mine and have yet to hear the DPF regeneration cycle. It could have happened when I was not driving, or perhaps it was so quiet that I didn't notice.

I suspect that it just has not happened yet. If that's the case, and it burns less than 5 gal when it runs, I doubt that the mileage impact will be significant.

gerrym51
11-26-2007, 11:30 PM
Technically you're right, but I can't imagine that it's a significant factor. I've got about 3200 miles on mine and have yet to hear the DPF regeneration cycle. It could have happened when I was not driving, or perhaps it was so quiet that I didn't notice.

I suspect that it just has not happened yet. If that's the case, and it burns less than 5 gal when it runs, I doubt that the mileage impact will be significant.

then less mileage in 2007's must be strictly engine
size and van weight?

possible-but if you think about it isn't the more likely
culprit the one thing that is definitly different- the new
emissions control systems on 2007's.

gerry:bounce:

anomaly
11-26-2007, 11:37 PM
then less mileage in 2007's must be strictly engine
size and van weight?

possible-but if you think about it isn't the more likely
culprit the one thing that is definitly different- the new
emissions control systems on 2007's.

gerry:bounce:

Good troubleshooting - but there's a factor you left out. The 2007's have a 6 cyl 3.0L diesel in place of the 5 cyl from the previous years. My guess is that the 6cyl is just less fuel efficient than the 5 cyl.

Starting in 2007 the default wheelbase is 144" instead of 140. Don't know how much that matters, or if the standing weight of the '07's is higher than previous years.

My guess is it's the engine (and that would be affected by the emissions control system, too.)

gerrym51
11-27-2007, 01:18 AM
Good troubleshooting - but there's a factor you left out. The 2007's have a 6 cyl 3.0L diesel in place of the 5 cyl from the previous years. My guess is that the 6cyl is just less fuel efficient than the 5 cyl.

Starting in 2007 the default wheelbase is 144" instead of 140. Don't know how much that matters, or if the standing weight of the '07's is higher than previous years.

My guess is it's the engine (and that would be affected by the emissions control system, too.)

3.0 l instead of 2.7, bigger van , new emissions controls,
add up to less mileage. I still think dpf is biggest factor

gerry:bounce:

Sprinter
11-27-2007, 04:06 AM
It's not the engine!
I had many diesels before and this one is the smoothest and the most quiet diesel You can find (OK maybe except Audi A5 or Subaru diesel)
First of all main advantage of common rail (beside reduced noise) is better fuel economy thanks to extreme pressure of injection.
Argument of 3.0 vs 2.7L doesn't make much sense either, it's not that big difference and also increased HP and torque let it work on less load and RPM's. And here we come! It's all about RPM's, this engine is strong enough to run below or around 2000 RPM on the highway, instead we get close to 3000! No matter, 4.18 or 3.92, it's almost the same - just 5 mph difference. Where did 3.7 go? Older Sprinters had 3.72 axle ratio and they had good mileage but there are also pre 2005 Sprinters with 4.10 gears that can't get 20 MPG as well and 2.7L engine will not help.
Users from Europe who have manual transmissions don't complain about their mileage, ask Altered, OK he's Aussie. They put on 6th gear and cruise at low RPM's and that's the whole idea (max torque 1200-2400 RPM) it's that simple.
As far as DPF issue, I think personally it's such a stupid invention. Just think of it - they did it to lower emissions but at the same time car uses more fuel because of it, isn't that crazy? They switched to cleaner fuel, Ultra-low sulfur, wasn't that enough?
And here we come again - US FUEL! OK, it's not so dirty, I've seen filter inside, but it has no power. In Europe You buy diesel with 51 cetans, Mercedes Benz requires 45 minimum for their engines and here in States we have... 40! No wonder we need more of it, it's basic physics.

jdcaples
11-27-2007, 04:58 AM
3.0 l instead of 2.7, bigger van , new emissions controls,
add up to less mileage. I still think dpf is biggest factor

gerry:bounce:

Perhaps someone will reveal how much fuel is required during the burn. I don't think enough is known to draw the conclusion that the DPF's presence and maintence ("regeneration cycle") is the big factor. These are complicated systems. If anyone knows, the engineers that designed would.... too bad they're not talking.

As for me, I've gone over 2000 miles and I am still waiting to "witness" my first DPF maint cycle. If it's happened, I missed it.

-Jon

Altered Sprinter
11-27-2007, 05:57 AM
Good call sprinter, you did some very basic homework,and found the key ? Congratulations.
Now you know I said use Red-line one for winter the other for Summer because only BP and now Shell put a additive into Diesel.
DPF.... On the 518 CDi now covered 66 thousand Kilometers only gone off twice, 23 MPG no issues as is standard with My sprinters this is auto
313 CDi still gets MPG on a awkward coastal run , 25 to 27 around town Hi-way just got back from the North of the State returned 32.8 MPG, yes US gallon :thumbup:not UK :thumbdown:
Manufactured Jan 2005 registered May 2005
MWB flat roof
313 Cdi 129 hp @3800 (hp@3800) rpm
300Nm 1600 -2400 rpm
Manual five speed trans
GVM rated 3.5
upgraded front axle 1750
single rim model rear axle spring rating 3200
=3.75 GVM or registered to rounded up number of 3.850T
Diferentail 35.8 final axle ratio 4.375
35. is for GVM Vans 3500 series--- .8 is for uprated front spring.
4.375 final axle ratio 4 T series as its under 4500KG
375 Is for maxium GVM unloaded. loaded rating on a single rear rim model MWB flat roof has a higher GVM than the LWB hi top unit total final regfistered weight 4.4GVM one hundred under the 4500 series
Total GVWR 4.375KG x 2,2 = 9625 if using exact numbers in the metric formular its ten thousand +LBs
316 Cdi was 4.111 but in fairness it has a different spring set up yours are different.
On each and every model sprinter depending on which front axle and rear spring set up they have the simular differntail numbers that match from 2.78T through tom 5.90T even the mercedes boddy directive shows the variations as to each model engine and transmission set for a required MPH and MPG set it shows the weight variants for each model depending on suspension upgrades and stablizer bar sets If you look carefully at the 07 models on the US options it clearly shows suspension upgrades and the final GVM.it's an option not standard. the only thing missing is the final ratio of 4.364 which may mean the standard cab chassis model is derated, to 4.1GVM
Cant wait to check em out in December on the Canadian side of Sprinters:bounce::bounce:
Richard
Richard

mean_in_green
11-27-2007, 08:33 AM
however much diesel it steals from tank is still diesel
not used in engine.

Agreed Gerry,

My point is that the regenerations happen too infrequently to really be of concern when talking about fuel efficiency.

Simon

gerrym51
11-27-2007, 12:52 PM
Agreed Gerry,

My point is that the regenerations happen too infrequently to really be of concern when talking about fuel efficiency.

Simon

sigh!

i have a question. active and passive regeneration?

full or partial regenerations? when is diesel sprayed in.

i know in general! anybody an expert to answer this.

all i know is that i'm not the one posting complaints over my
mileage.

everybody else has a reason. my reason is emissions controls


i looked up passive/ active. i suggest interested parties do so.

Altered Sprinter
11-27-2007, 04:01 PM
Gerry
Look back on the animation I ran up
Mercedes Benz Particle Killer (http://video.google.com/url?docid=8845106134268138051&esrc=gvpl&ev=v&vidurl=http://video.google.com/videoplay%3Fdocid%3D8845106134268138051&usg=AL29H238IMtIiKiOLOuiuNJq6tqXVlJgKg)
It will activate only when the trap needs to be cleaned
Where the particle builds up is from soot emissions is based on "How long between burns" The answer to this is dependent on the quality of the fuel itself.
I'm dropping back a little on another thread of yours to re explain the life span of the DPF, which was a concern of yours.
In the first instance the California EPA was the original instigator on this for clean air emissions being set for 2007
This was based on testings from 2003/4 with the way an engine would react under different operating conditions and including warranty life span with manufactures of the DPF, including damage to engine if the unit failed via the ECU command .

The tests were done on local trucks rigs not SUV units Buses like urban transport etc the conclusion was failures were imminent by design. "Fuel Quality"

The testing went back to 1997 to the period of 2002.
This was based on 5000 pp/m for partial emissions to be phased in and lowered to 2/ppm My year 2020. this was critical as to California specific..No other State based on the excessive emissions from older Diesel engines.

Sprinters in the States use Euro3 emission controls Sprinters elsewhere use Euro4 you have a lesser rear exhaust for compression but use the same Emission particle trap, less pressure less activation.

Fuel Gerry 2020 for California now down to 2018
Europe has the fuel and the emission standards for this already it's way advanced as to the USA.
MB is put in a position to supply a detuned engine to Euro 3 standards My year 2002-2003 bigger jets to dump more fuel because the smaller jets will block with contaminated particularizations.
this allows more un burnt sulfur soot to go back through into the trap, so the burn rate is higher and more frequent as a result of a lesser emission control unit and poor quality fuels ULSD has no additives added from the bulk of refineries that send this fuel on for resale, with the exception of BP and shell.

ULSD is still rated at 18/ppm not the mandated 15/ppm but it is within the defined range of acceptance, Not with a Sprinter MB specific States clean fuels with a related cetane number.

You have one choice, buy a local unit! because even the gas engine, can not compete with the local RON rating.

The solution to higher quality fuels is available Monies from Euro banks to rebuild US refineries at low interest prices can be obtained,to rebuild US infrastructures, there is one catch, and that's singing up to the basic KYOTO ACCORD.
This requires a change of government.with a different agenda as to finding the balance of equality.
MB built the engine for Euro 4 and Euro 5 emissions for 2007 to 2009. for HPF modified synthetic Diesel fuels that already have a 2/ppm emission standard ..Now in the hell is this engine supposed to cope with last century's fuels.? It can't. so burn offs will be more frequent depending on where the fuel came from? your only solution is to use a recommended Diesel additive that is suitable for a MB engine to reduce the particle build up, and that also applies to any Euro Gas engine , as long as they make them . Damlier AG is developing one single gas engine for the States.but for sedans only.
Richard

gerrym51
11-27-2007, 04:19 PM
Sounds complicated!

well in the USA- we only have the fuel were going to get-
only the DPF were going to get-only the refineries we have,
only the engines were going to get.

easier(and cheaper to buy gas)

Sprinter
11-27-2007, 09:10 PM
mean in green.

however much diesel it steals from tank is still diesel
not used in engine. number of regenerations plus
length of regeneration.

i actually have never been able to find out just
how much used.


gerry:thumbup:

This is interresting and partially explaines what You looking for but again, no exact answer "how much"
http://www.etrucker.com/apps/news/article.asp?id=54170

gerrym51
11-28-2007, 02:58 AM
to sprinter:

just two comments. manufacturer says dpf uses a small
amount of diesel. does not realy tell you how much.
can't tell you uses large amount of diesel- can't sell vehicles
that way.

cleaning dpf. those are all medium to large trucks.
chrysler will make you pay for replacement of small dpf..


:shhh:

Altered Sprinter
11-28-2007, 06:14 AM
Es-ist-halt-so
Hello DPF is not the favored medium! Bluetec is.
4947
Your looking in on old technology for US trucks! like Ford and GM 1985 to 1997
Look at side of the square to the outer world , you know the ones that are using advanced technologies, without restrictions of corporate corruption!to keep the US trucking industry alive.

Look at who owns Western Star, Freightliner, and look at what systems they use today , look into next year, and what will be used,
Now lets get this straight once and for all.
If a DPF filter needs to be serviced! Then there will be an exchange system set up, or depending on your location same day service for a rejuvenation of the system, it's supposed to last the life of the vehicle itself, or one million kilometers! show me a US SUV or mini bus, that can make that grade?
4948
If for one moment in time... think about where your heading :thinking:with fuel at 200.00 a US barrel in twelve months time its still cheaper than a barrel of wine.
Emission standards are for the world, and for tomorrows children, so "Grow Up and take responsibility for your actions" That comment is meant for all Govemenments not any singular one. country.I put each one on notice, we are out of time.
It's Unbelievable, it's strange! but true.
It's inconceivable, it could happen to you.
You're going north and you're going south
Just like bait in a fish's mouth.
Must be living in the shadow of some kind of evil star
It's unbelievable it would get this far.

It's unbelievable what they'd have you think
it's indescribable it can drive you to drink
They said it was the land of milk and honey
now they say it's the land of money
Who ever thought they'd ever make that stick?
it's unbelievable you could get this rich this quick.

Every head is so dignified
Every head is so sanctified
Every urge is so satisfied
As long as you have paid
All the silver all the gold
All the sweethearts that you could hold
They don't come back with stories untold! 'are hanging on a tree.'

It's unbelievable like a lead balloon
So impossible to even line the tomb
Kill that beast! and feet that swine
Scale the wall and smoke the wine=DPF:professor:
Beat the horse and saddle up that drum
It's unbelievable! "The day would finally come":bow:

Once there was a man! "Who had no eyes"
Every lady in the land told him lies

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/1/1_4_30.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNfox000)
He stood beneath the silver skies
And his heart beat could plead
Every brain is civilized
Every nerve is analyzed
Everything is criticized, when you are in need

it's unbelievable it's fancy-free
So interchangeable, so delightful to see
Turn your backs..wash your hands
There's always someone who understands
it don't matter no more, "What you got to say"
It's unbelievable it go down this way.

If the DPF goes of twice in every ten thousand Ks! Then you can thank the Star:clapping:

If the the DFF ignites too often and your EGR valves are clogged The ask the reason Why?:hmmm:

If your MPG are lower than 20 MPG on a mid wheel based van , Then ask the question as to Why:wtf:

If your getting less than 15MPG on an overloaded
misconfigured cab chassis, model Blame the dealer who never offered you the supension upgrades. But equally blame your self for not going the extra buck to get the maxium performance from your working horse power.

If a five tonne LWB Sprinter with a 318 CDi engine and auto can get a consistant 23 MPG!..Then there is no reason you can not get the same, if you study the fuel that is used, and educate yourself to manage the cetane levels, to keep the fuel at a consistant level of quality, it can be done, Use the forum to find answers, use Wiki to learn and to understand .
How a Sprinter works. Now go smoke the wine:rolleyes:
Richard











http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb096&pp=ZNfox000 (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb096_ZNfox000&utm_id=7924)

gerrym51
11-28-2007, 08:36 AM
This is interresting and partially explaines what You looking for but again, no exact answer "how much"
http://www.etrucker.com/apps/news/article.asp?id=54170

Sprinter,

i re-read the article and i think i know what is happening.

the passive or low load regeneration which is the continuous
spray( supposedly minute) of diesel is causing fuel loss
to those who do a lot of stop and go driving.

gerry

gerrym51
11-28-2007, 08:56 AM
richard,

who is doing the exchange program. just find me one
2007 sprinter buyer whose dealer says that will happen.

i have asked several times for someone who has bought a 2007

to get their dealer to tell them what happens/who pays

this is on small vehicle vans/cars/pickups.

nobody has the answer.

bluetec is a total group of diesel fuel clean technologies.
dpf is supposedly one part of it

:bow:

if the dpf is supposed to last one million kilometers. why does it have to be checked
starting at 90,000 miles

Altered Sprinter
11-28-2007, 12:24 PM
richard,

who is doing the exchange program. just find me one
2007 sprinter buyer whose dealer says that will happen.

i have asked several times for someone who has bought a 2007

to get their dealer to tell them what happens/who pays

this is on small vehicle vans/cars/pickups.

nobody has the answer.

bluetec is a total group of diesel fuel clean technologies.
dpf is supposedly one part of it

:bow:

if the dpf is supposed to last one million kilometers. why does it have to be checked
starting at 90,000 miles

Jerry This is a US Californian 2003 EPA investigation that was never completed Mercedes_Benz refused to comply to this, as it does not fall into the category of 5000 series models the va ns are rated paasenger and light duty SUV models... not trucks.
Mercedes-Benz systems are above and beyond the EPA's requirement for 2007 mandates
There is no 90 thousand mile designation check for Mercedes-Benz Sprinters.
Sprinters again have lesser rear exhaust to compress the back flow to meet euro emissions for light trucks in all 50 states for the N/American sector, it's back wards technology 1998 ro 2003 Europe has gone past this to euro 4 with a standard PDF they work without issues.
Where there is conflict with a more consistent regeneration of buring off the carbon soot is in high density city traffic.
This is due to the engine not being at the full RPM to burn off excess fuel via the fuel injection system , as most vehicles are operating at near idle rpm's in city traffic.
Where the vehicle is at stand still ,or at crawl then this system is used.
it's the fuel saver to to overcome soot build up.and to save on excessive fuel expediture. {not on US sprinters}
4949

4950
The next step is Blutec with ad-blue euro 5
This system uses a DPF but with disposable particle trap filters at the rear exhaust or exhausts if twin.These you have to pay for when they require replacement.
Now Just to add insult to injury, what do you think the gas sprinter is going to use in July 2008 2009? Those cats have a limited lifeline and you use the same disposable emission soot trap
With ad-blue for 2009 you pay for that as well it can be sent UPS mail to any address Stateside.
4951
Honda uses the same principle it uses gas same as Mercedes for 2005 to 2008 with those countries not yet using adblue sytems Europe uses both for the year 2007 onwards.
Ad-blue uses a water injection system to cool off the gas particles back into a collective trap.
4952
Which ever way you run Jerry you cant escape the fact , that both Gas and Diesel uses a user pays system at your expense, that is the penalty you pay for the governments irresponsible attitudes of not dealing with Green house gas emissions sooner.
4953
There is a guarantee by the EPA What a Joke! they can't do anything right, that there was supposed to be service outlets to maintain the DPF's Most rigs have them, off road machinery uses them, so someone must be servicing them or they are not being replaced
Richard

gerrym51
11-28-2007, 01:00 PM
Richard,

i've told you this before. the 2007 maintenance manual
says
dpf must be checked every starting at 90,000 miles
at every service maintenance. this is under special maintenance.

get chrysler/Mb to take it out of the required maintenance
manual and i will shut up about it.

as has happened in the past, i hit you with facts(correct or
not) and you hit me with social morality.

diesel engine sellers should just tell us were doing this for the
environment but it will cost you.

i still need to know just one US dealer that will make a
definite answer on how DPF replacement/ cost will
be handled. just one !


yours in liking sprinter vans

gerry:thumbup:


PS. also who are we going to exchange DPF's with. if less than 10,000 sprinter vans are sold
per year how many are going to be able exchanged only 5% of vehicles in US arer diesel
and most are big trucks. you are treating US market like europe where over 60 % are diesel

northener
11-28-2007, 01:55 PM
Hi: When I learned a couple of years ago now that the sprinter would be re-designed from the bottom up I knew it was time to buy an 06 or never have one. I'm so happy to have it and get the 29 mph when rural driving and be free of these new pollution control questions,

But what should we american T1N owners be looking for in cetane number to get best performance. I do add Power Deisel additive to my fuel at one per 3 gallons.

thanks, paul

sikwan
11-28-2007, 02:02 PM
dpf must be checked every starting at 90,000 miles
at every service maintenance. this is under special maintenance.

Gerry...I think the key word here is "checked" or a fancier word "inspected."

The last I checked, most gas driven vehicles have to go through a smog check. Very few diesel driven vehicles are required to go through a smog check (at least in California; none currently). You don't hear it very often, but the catalytic converter on a gas engine still needs to be inspected annually and replaced if necessary.

get chrysler/Mb to take it out of the required maintenance
manual and i will shut up about it.

Nah, that won't happen. Otherwise, you'll have nothing to gripe about. :smilewink: :smirk:

gerrym51
11-28-2007, 02:07 PM
Gerry...I think the key word here is "checked" or a fancier word "inspected."

The last I checked, most gas driven vehicles have to go through a smog check. Very few diesel driven vehicles are required to go through a smog check (at least in California; none currently). You don't hear it very often, but the catalytic converter on a gas engine still needs to be inspected annually and replaced if necessary.



Nah, that won't happen. Otherwise, you'll have nothing to gripe about. :smilewink: :smirk:

seek,

i have actually had a catalytic converter replaced.

but the 90,000 mile mark is the starting times when some
dpf's will be over thresold and have too be cleaned/replaced.

not the same as a defective dpf.

i still think your grand

gerry:bow::clapping::thumbup::laughing::bounce: :tongue::lol::professor::D:popcorn::smilewink:

mean_in_green
11-28-2007, 02:08 PM
Another problem with the DPF filter is MB's assertion that it will last the life of the vehicle.

That's funny - they made the same claim with Actros.

However the ones fitted to Actros only seem to last three to four years.

At the moment no exchange system exists for DPF filters.

The best bit: wait until you ask your dealer how much a DPF filter for your NCV3 costs. Make sure you're lying down when you ask...

Simon

Altered Sprinter
11-29-2007, 11:33 AM
Richard,

i've told you this before. the 2007 maintenance manual
says
dpf must be checked every starting at 90,000 miles
at every service maintenance. this is under special maintenance.

get chrysler/Mb to take it out of the required maintenance
manual and i will shut up about it.

as has happened in the past, i hit you with facts(correct or
not) and you hit me with social morality.

diesel engine sellers should just tell us were doing this for the
environment but it will cost you.

i still need to know just one US dealer that will make a
definite answer on how DPF replacement/ cost will
be handled. just one !


yours in liking sprinter vans

gerry:thumbup:


PS. also who are we going to exchange DPF's with. if less than 10,000 sprinter vans are sold
per year how many are going to be able exchanged only 5% of vehicles in US arer diesel
and most are big trucks. you are treating US market like europe where over 60 % are diesel

Gerry again and I 'll make the point clear.

Chrysler MB....There is no such organization
It's owned and operated by Cerberus, Dodge is just a distributer for Sprinters.
Dodge/Freightliner are US stand alone warranted, they were and are not supported under warranty by Daimler AG unless there is a design fault, from the manufacture.
You ask the Dodgy Brothers for information regarding DPF maintenance period of inspections.
Why would they even want to bother ? your van is out of warranty, they do not give a rats tail about the DPF or a cat , your on your own.
You state ten thousand sprinters for one single year! a very small part of Diesels sold as to US brands , Ask Freightliner, Ask Western Star, Ask Detroit engines, Ask Thomas busses, Ask Caterpillar, ask john Deere, as Amtrak, ask the US government and any mining co that uses off road diesels underground! 5% of US passenger vehicles use diesel,now look at the figures on Diesel use in the USA off road or used on road for H/D use you'd be very surprised.
Sprinters and the environment go hand in hand, end of story .
Ask what in the hell the EPA is doing:idunno: and why it's forfeiting it's own legal responsibility's. and you may well ask what they are covering up..I mean it..No Joke.

You cant find a place to have the DPF serviced.. a simple 45 minute job ? Jerry I live in Tasmania! not the USA, but I don't seem to have any trouble finding the manufacture
Cleaire http://www.cleaire.com
Trains and Boats and planes and things use diesel along with DPF filtration systems , I said previously the the EPA cut out with the year 2003 for PDF systems as your bin 11 and 111 emissions are for the year Euro11 and 3 which came on line in the USA for my year 2007.
4970

4971
OK I found the areas that service these things, now you go search them out. Then if you can be bothered if your really interested link up with the EPA in California and take the time to research , and ask why each link via the US labour of industry that pertains to the two stage cleaning system which is available is a dead inactive link right through every single US State by State not one link is alive.
The Think about this one with the DPF and cats on public transport 2003 US heavy duty hi-way rigs we need more time to investigate:shifty:
Rudolf Diesel patented the system back in August 1898
US Patent 0068845 How long do they need to investigate an engine that produces less Nox than a gasoline engine as to the amount of energy required to drive it as opposed to gasoline thats up to 30 less efficient and produces more NOx that Diesel on a MPG basis to a 72 liter tank of fuel.
I'll only ever shut up when the I can see that tomorrows children can breathe in a safer atmosphere and I cloud not give a rats tail as to what it will cost the economy of any country.
If the Netherlands , French, Germans and UK, half of any way, can do it. And Australia thats has only eight refineries can do it with 5 out of 8 prior to 2009 with cleaning the fuels up !!!then why in world can't the greatest country in world that has all of the resources at hand clean up the fuels at your end of the pond???Then you would not have to worry about that useless DPF failing, long after your warranty has expired.

Now there are 10 thousand Sprinters, with ten thousand drivers a' talk'in and your! a wannabe sprinter owner, I would start to think your on the eve of self destruction.
Cause I love a good argument.

There was a little boy
And there was a little girl
And they both lived in an ally under the red sky

There was an old man
And he lived in the moon
One summer's day he came passing by

Some day little girl
Everything for you is gonna be new
Some day little girl
You'll have a diamond as big as your shoe

Let the wind blow high.Let the wind blow low.
One day the little boy and the little girl
Were both baked in a pie.

Let the wind blow high
Let the wind blow low

This is the key to the kingdom
and this is the town
This is the blind horse
That leads you around
Let the bird sing
Let the bird fly
One day the man in the moon went home, and the river went dry.

gerrym51
11-29-2007, 01:05 PM
thanks richard.




gerry:bow::clapping::thumbup::hmmm:

gerrym51
11-30-2007, 05:29 PM
Gerry again and I 'll make the point clear.

Chrysler MB....There is no such organization
It's owned and operated by Cerberus, Dodge is just a distributer for Sprinters.
Dodge/Freightliner are US stand alone warranted, they were and are not supported under warranty by Daimler AG unless there is a design fault, from the manufacture.
You ask the Dodgy Brothers for information regarding DPF maintenance period of inspections.
Why would they even want to bother ? your van is out of warranty, they do not give a rats tail about the DPF or a cat , your on your own.
You state ten thousand sprinters for one single year! a very small part of Diesels sold as to US brands , Ask Freightliner, Ask Western Star, Ask Detroit engines, Ask Thomas busses, Ask Caterpillar, ask john Deere, as Amtrak, ask the US government and any mining co that uses off road diesels underground! 5% of US passenger vehicles use diesel,now look at the figures on Diesel use in the USA off road or used on road for H/D use you'd be very surprised.
Sprinters and the environment go hand in hand, end of story .
Ask what in the hell the EPA is doing:idunno: and why it's forfeiting it's own legal responsibility's. and you may well ask what they are covering up..I mean it..No Joke.

You cant find a place to have the DPF serviced.. a simple 45 minute job ? Jerry I live in Tasmania! not the USA, but I don't seem to have any trouble finding the manufacture
Cleaire http://www.cleaire.com
Trains and Boats and planes and things use diesel along with DPF filtration systems , I said previously the the EPA cut out with the year 2003 for PDF systems as your bin 11 and 111 emissions are for the year Euro11 and 3 which came on line in the USA for my year 2007.
4970

4971
OK I found the areas that service these things, now you go search them out. Then if you can be bothered if your really interested link up with the EPA in California and take the time to research , and ask why each link via the US labour of industry that pertains to the two stage cleaning system which is available is a dead inactive link right through every single US State by State not one link is alive.
The Think about this one with the DPF and cats on public transport 2003 US heavy duty hi-way rigs we need more time to investigate:shifty:
Rudolf Diesel patented the system back in August 1898
US Patent 0068845 How long do they need to investigate an engine that produces less Nox than a gasoline engine as to the amount of energy required to drive it as opposed to gasoline thats up to 30 less efficient and produces more NOx that Diesel on a MPG basis to a 72 liter tank of fuel.
I'll only ever shut up when the I can see that tomorrows children can breathe in a safer atmosphere and I cloud not give a rats tail as to what it will cost the economy of any country.
If the Netherlands , French, Germans and UK, half of any way, can do it. And Australia thats has only eight refineries can do it with 5 out of 8 prior to 2009 with cleaning the fuels up !!!then why in world can't the greatest country in world that has all of the resources at hand clean up the fuels at your end of the pond???Then you would not have to worry about that useless DPF failing, long after your warranty has expired.

Now there are 10 thousand Sprinters, with ten thousand drivers a' talk'in and your! a wannabe sprinter owner, I would start to think your on the eve of self destruction.
Cause I love a good argument.

There was a little boy
And there was a little girl
And they both lived in an ally under the red sky

There was an old man
And he lived in the moon
One summer's day he came passing by

Some day little girl
Everything for you is gonna be new
Some day little girl
You'll have a diamond as big as your shoe

Let the wind blow high.Let the wind blow low.
One day the little boy and the little girl
Were both baked in a pie.

Let the wind blow high
Let the wind blow low

This is the key to the kingdom
and this is the town
This is the blind horse
That leads you around
Let the bird sing
Let the bird fly
One day the man in the moon went home, and the river went dry.

richard,

this is how i interpret what you said.

1. Believe what MB says-not what they put in fine print.
2. Fend for yourself.
3. Find your own sources for parts/service. don't depend
on who you bought it from.
4. be prepared to PAY.

sounds like a plan


gerry:bounce:

gerrym51
11-30-2007, 09:06 PM
Another problem with the DPF filter is MB's assertion that it will last the life of the vehicle.

That's funny - they made the same claim with Actros.

However the ones fitted to Actros only seem to last three to four years.

At the moment no exchange system exists for DPF filters.

The best bit: wait until you ask your dealer how much a DPF filter for your NCV3 costs. Make sure you're lying down when you ask...

Simon


simon,

just a question since you live in England.

if there is no exchange program for DPF's can the dealer
have it cleaned or is new replacement the only option.

i queried the make (clearire) that richard told me about
and he said the dealer had to buy their machine.

none in my area have it.


gerry

Altered Sprinter
11-30-2007, 09:37 PM
Jerry Plan stand alone
I'm glad you took the time to ask Cleiare...
He said the dealer has to buy? yes it's not free.
It may payed to have asked him where an alternative independent station was? as the DPF 's increase on US models you will find they will become more common.
especially as Blutec comes on line Dodge Ram is already using them on the RV Ute. Just to make you feel a little more comfortable, there is none in Tasmania as of yet , but they are still to new, there are other ways of cleaning them out safely.
Free advice don't expect the dealer to have one unless they are a huge franchice in the the trucking bussiness Dodge is a limited line it will eventually be dropped back to Chrsler Dodge is an old mark Cerberus are already looking at how to dump Dodge rebadger'ed productrs that are the same as Chrsyler branded sedans.
By the way I will bein the US for a week or two at Christmas so my intent is to check a few things out for myself, just to have a prospective of how the Sprinters are manged over in the States.
Plan ....I'd be putting my money on Freightliner,, for service in the long run. MB have a plan but it takes time and there are wounds to heel ,Keep an eye out on Chrysler... MB has not finished with them! just yet.:shifty:
Richard

gerrym51
11-30-2007, 09:43 PM
Jerry Plan stand alone
I'm glad you took the time to ask Cleiare...
He said the dealer has to buy? yes it's not free.
It may payed to have asked him where an alternative independent station was? as the DPF 's increase on US models you will find they will become more common.
especially as Blutec comes on line Dodge Ram is already using them on the RV Ute. Just to make you feel a little more comfortable, there is none in Tasmania as of yet , but they are still to new, there are other ways of cleaning them out safely.
Free advice don't expect the dealer to have one unless they are a huge franchice in the the trucking bussiness Dodge is a limited line it will eventually be dropped back to Chrsler Dodge is an old mark Cerberus are already looking at how to dump Dodge rebadger'ed productrs that are the same as Chrsyler branded sedans.
By the way I will bein the US for a week or two at Christmas so my intent is to check a few things out for myself, just to have a prospective of how the Sprinters are manged over in the States.
Plan ....I'd be putting my money on Freightliner,, for service in the long run. MB have a plan but it takes time and there are wounds to heel ,Keep an eye out on Chrysler... MB has not finished with them! just yet.:shifty:
Richard

Richard,

you da man. give e'm hell!



gerry:bounce:

Altered Sprinter
11-30-2007, 09:59 PM
I intend to via a Canadian forum that's being set up now Not Fair you deserve better but MB has to find a way to get those dealers to play the game.that the bent Benz expects elsewhere and demands.
If I have the time I might nuke a few dealerships and claim Diplomatic privilegeshttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_7_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNfox000)

Sprinter
12-01-2007, 06:15 AM
you cannot legally remove it. doing so will also void your
warranty

gerry:wtf:


I was kidding then but now when I think of it more.. I drive a lot so I have lots of time to think and I am thinking ECONOMY

Unlike my mechanic whom I spoke about this recently, he is after POWER. This guy has Subaru WRX or STI (whatever) they have forum just like us, they just don't care about mileage. They purchase $40k+ car to race it and they squeze every horse power they can so among many modifications they... remove particulate filter or calalyc conv. - DPF equivalent in gas engine. He said that Sprinter would be lot stronger without it, exaust does not escape freely but in the long run meets lot of drag because of DPF.

So I say
- can You remove it?
he says
- well I could but many lights will come on, "check engine" for sure and there will be no way to reset them
There is no aftermarket computer for Sprinter like the one they use for Subaru to trick the computer and make it "think" there is still DPF

Here's my idea, just tell me Your opinions before I do it. OK -forget warranty void as I am getting close to end of it anyway

What if we leave DPF where it is with all sensors and connections but cut the exaust pipe just before DPF, bypass DPF and let it go to muffler. Then another, smaller diameter pipe would go into DPF just to let computer shut up and "think" "Oh, how little carbon am I gettin here, good, less work for me, no regeneration yet":laughing:
Do You think this would work? or maybe the pressure would be insufficient and still I would get failure message displayed?

This my seem crazy but I know this van has great potential and I won't stop exploring until I unleash it:drool:

Altered Sprinter
12-01-2007, 07:55 AM
After POWER.
he says

Here's my idea, just tell me Your opinions before I do it. OK -forget warranty void as I am getting close to end of it anyway

What if we leave DPF where it is with all sensors and connections but cut the exaust pipe just before DPF, bypass DPF and let it go to muffler. Then another, smaller diameter pipe would go into DPF just to let computer shut up and "think" "Oh, how little carbon am I gettin here, good, less work for me, no regeneration yet":laughing:
Do You think this would work? or maybe the pressure would be insufficient and still I would get failure message displayed?

This my seem crazy but I know this van has great potential and I won't stop exploring until I unleash it:drool:[/quote]
Here's the deal! Do you really want to remove the DPF?
To release the secret, I get to posses your soul.
Death is imminent http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_30.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNfox000)
sgn;"Devils Advocate" they don't call me DD for nothing
4999
but will he take me up on the offer! On a hot Summers Night.
Ghost Rider Video - Bad to the Bone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3rWfsL9pGA)
The other half of Richard:rolleyes:

Sprinter
12-01-2007, 09:09 AM
Altered! You are great guy so You deserve great offer! It's not scam!
I'll give You my soul if You'll give me 28 MPG!
Will You remove my DPF Yourself or You want me to do it?

Altered Sprinter
12-01-2007, 11:08 AM
Ahr'''' Sprinter welcome to my lair:eek:
but It's Christmas and the good man above, has me in checkhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_15_63.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNfox000) If I gave you the key , you'd be dead in no time quick straight blow through, Do what the Egyptians did !!!
But Cancer is the price you pay, for the need to speed. Diesel fumes striaght are too poisoness which is why Dalmlier Rudolf invented the DPF back in 1898 and pattened it in the USA.
Your future if you do it.
5005
Mind you there is a transplant
28MPG +
5006
5007
5008
BY Crafter with a PDF Best of both worlds less power at 120 KW but better tuned same power band, or as good at mid range rpm as the V6.

Actually where do you run your van ?? mid town urban runs You need a twin turbo 4-inline 315 CDi leaves the v6 318 for dead, in as many ways including the torque, those engines haul with out speed limiters, and that's where those engines of yours, are letting you down.
Think about this my 515 CDi does 23 mPG your well under that GVM rating and getting less MPG in most cases with the exception of the MWB units.
Twin turbo one for normal driving in constant active drive, the second for the power pulse. Only with third generation inlines not v6
5009
Richard
The devil lost on that one, Hum Bug:smilewink: buy the way next trick one turbo one supercharger }" }; [..] [;] he, he.









http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb114&pp=ZNfox000 (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb114_ZNfox000&utm_id=7922)

gerrym51
12-01-2007, 11:12 PM
only sprinters to choose from are ones USA gets,

I'd wait until you actually have to replace it. who knows.

all thats written may be wrong and it will never fill up

with ash. the definition "life of the van" has never been

quantified. maybe it will be 250,000 miles

gerry:bounce:

Altered Sprinter
12-02-2007, 12:22 AM
only sprinters to choose from are ones USA gets,

I'd wait until you actually have to replace it. who knows.

all thats written may be wrong and it will never fill up

with ash. the definition "life of the van" has never been

quantified. maybe it will be 250,000 miles

gerry:bounce:
Each country gets the same DPF Euro 4
Different countries..recive less or...better rear main exhausts! that dictate the performace of the back pressure, fora higher burn rate under compression. [complicated]
MB: for example. under the directives of emission controls formula, they are required to install the systems.
They work as designed In theory.. they last a life time under perfect benck mark testing.
What MB can not control is the quality of fuel. and the adverse of effects from poor processing from refineries, Use the good Oil.. it goes the golden mile..use a lesser low grade oil based fuel , simple maths dictate that quantum physics will change the the end results.. with higher carbon out put,
The question remains.. Why was it so?
Answer Politics.

Do you blame MB for a failure , Human nature will! 'so say'. and complain, as to 'Why did not MB fix it.'?

In real time life frames! of co existent technology, failure's are 99,9% of time created by adverse conditions, that are beyond the control of the designer and or manufacture.
MB knows this, as do other manufactures.

The blame game, is Bourne out of ignorance of knowledge and reasoning.[common sense prevails,unfortunately it's not a human taint, when reality comes into play, acceptance is oblivious to those! "Who refuse to accept the inevitable reality of life".

Famous quotation...[Life was never meant to be easy.]

What is a common traint in humans is! one only screams 'Blue Murder' when something goes wrong, , Why! because the owner lacks the knowledge of the operation to the said vehicle...Please the "Sprinter! is not a Model T"

The DPF is almost indestructible, its high grade stainless, that is encases i a ceramic filter both will last the life of the vehicle if maintained, Questionable when fuels are not compliant to the the EPA requirements.

I'd be looking to the weakest point in the system and thats the exhaust pipe itself, including the joints.
Blow back from a released carbon blockage of soot contamination, in a compacted concentrated form will burn the inside of the pipe rapidly//// the heat intensity is so red hot, it will burn off the galvanized coatings on the outer pipe.
Beware of this problem which will result in burnt out tail pipes in time.
NO not a MB quality issue, high sulfur fuel contamination is the cause of excessive carbon soot release.
Photo of a current Sprinter owner used a lesser fuel Caltex 15/ ppm
5014

Richard

gerrym51
12-02-2007, 02:50 AM
i have no dought the dpf can last 500,000 miles, as a part.

the filling up with ash is the problem. even if it only fills up
at 150,000 miles it needs to be cleaned. i'm sure the filter itself
will still be usable.


:bow:

Altered Sprinter
12-02-2007, 03:10 AM
i have no dought the dpf can last 500,000 miles, as a part.

the filling up with ash is the problem. even if it only fills up
at 150,000 miles it needs to be cleaned. i'm sure the filter itself
will still be usable.


:bow: True they are self cleaning subject to ?????
Now go buy one, so we can use u as a test case:smilewink:
Well:idunno:someone has to be the guinnie pig, I elect your good self
Richard

mean_in_green
12-06-2007, 10:58 AM
just a question since you live in England.

if there is no exchange program for DPF's can the dealer
have it cleaned or is new replacement the only option

Gerry,

Replacement is currently the only option here in the UK at present, according to both the dealer (who would say that) and other informed sources.

One would hope that situation changes, as there's clearly going to be a demand.

Simon

Altered Sprinter
12-06-2007, 12:01 PM
Thats interesting Simon , Mercedes has this arranged for servicing centers in Germany and France through Fushe service centers> are you sure the UK has not any , either that or there is no demand yet ?
Richard

jdcaples
12-06-2007, 04:53 PM
It's not like DPF cleaning is completely unheard of at this stage of the requirement.


http://www.expeditersonline.com/artman/publish/printer_6445.html

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/files/aftertreatment_training.pdf

oh, and this company offers Franchise Opportunities (no details on the website, though).

http://www.fsxinc.com/

Gerrry, if you buy one of these franchises, I'll drive 3000 miles just so you get my business. :)


-Jon

mean_in_green
12-06-2007, 08:45 PM
Perhaps it's too soon for there to be an option here Richard?

The model has only been available for a relatively short time after all.

Simon

Altered Sprinter
12-06-2007, 09:57 PM
It's a Conspiracy ! Who's hiding them since 1999.
This is the site That the EPA and US labour industry points you to, along with others? each link is dead ! Not one single Government site has an active live link:thumbdown:
The EPA has been evaluating them since the introduction of DPF since 1997 , It arrived at the mileage figures For Sprinters as such based on Commercial vehicles that have a different DPF
Since then they still state we need more time.

Recently the EPA is landed in court to 'Please Explain"
They State we do not have the authority to execute the directive towards sustainable emission controls it's The Governments responsibility.
Judge Bean said NO! you are responsible .
Nothings happening since.
Richard

5078
5079
5080
5081 We need a revolution to wake up the Government to hold them accountable for their own legislature... Thats actually enforced.
Richard
Gee I'm Glad it's XChristmas

gerrym51
12-07-2007, 03:16 AM
Here is my prediction. Everything i've seen about DPF's
and cleaning applies to medium and heavy duty trucks.

cars and light duty trucks use relatively small dpf's.


i predict you will be told that they are too small and cannot
be cleaned and will be considered disposable when they are full.

I cannot show you this info anywhere. it's just a feeling i get
reading these sites, and reading between the lines.

gerry

Altered Sprinter
12-07-2007, 12:21 PM
Here is my prediction. Everything i've seen about DPF's
and cleaning applies to medium and heavy duty trucks.

cars and light duty trucks use relatively small dpf's.


i predict you will be told that they are too small and cannot
be cleaned and will be considered disposable when they are full.

I cannot show you this info anywhere. it's just a feeling i get
reading these sites, and reading between the lines.

gerry
Dear Jerry
Please read between the lines just a tad deeper and work this out.
Residue from these units applies to catalysts as well One The EPA US specific pacific time year 1997
arranges dates for the Units to be a mandatory DPF on the sprinters at not Euro 4 but euro 2 and 3 lesser rear exhaust. sort of like the Tyrone the turtle
5091
These creatures live for 180years
slow and easy very sensitive to changes in the environment.

As US vehicles over the next five years migrate towards the newer emission standards in volume on all models
Remember Mr GW BUSH wants vehicles passenger ones to be 40% more fuel efficient by 2018 .

Has it occurred to you when these are serviced who will do them , not your local Joe Blow with a brain five cents short of being an Oxy Moron, it will take highly trained personnel under work place health best practice to do the cleanups.
One breath of that dust and your a dead man walking.
It has to be in a controlled inert atmosphere. this is not static free it can explode if the conditions are right.
all residue is designated Highly toxic, it can not be dumped in a dumpster.
The EPA has a mandate to organize transportation of the bulk residue to a set of designated yet to be purpose built hi burn incinerators , these of course are to be built emission free to met carbon emission targets for 2018
They have this thing about 2018 :thinking:
If you read the EPA PDF between the lines and as to the many others I have... There is one underlying question?

Who is going to build the incinerators?

You see Gerry another lie to hold back another omission to a mission impossible which is why every single US Government site is locked off to where the designated stations are to be????

The government has to fund it by tax breaks, for private companies to take it on. Laws were passed in Congress as to when it was to be implemented 2009 no latter, Senate approves it, EPA does a runner on this one as each of the state of unions baulk, we don't want it in our back yard, and we can not afford to run it on our budgets.
Give us more funding.

Jerry go buy a 1950 woody and restore it , it takes less energy and you wont have to worry about emissions on the thing as its classed vintage.
your not going to get a clear answer on this unless you take a walk on the wild side and Ph your local rep who represents your state. then he-Whore, she or it? will do a back flip on it, and pass the buck.
"Time for a change"
Merry Christmas.

Altered Sprinter
12-07-2007, 12:42 PM
Thinking fuel economy on the new Sprinters, I'd be more concerned as to looking at the poorer fuel economy,than the DPF.
The DPF will lower fuel returns slightly maybe by two to the gallon at the worst.
If The refineries clean up the fuel a little more, and started putting added synthetic fuel boasters to compensate for loss of Cetane, and lubricity, then the MPG would go up to a more reasonable MPG result say at the best 5MPG, not to mention better perfoming Engines.
Think about that one, there is no reason..."None" for it not to haapen! it was dissuced at govenment leval, and the cost was one to two cents a gallon ULSD conversion added another five cents against LSD Diesel.
Richard

gerrym51
12-07-2007, 08:41 PM
I'll stick with my prediction. we won't know for a couple years.


gerry:bounce:

Altered Sprinter
12-07-2007, 09:22 PM
I'll stick with my prediction. we won't know for a couple years.


gerry:bounce:
Dito! That may be the underlying reasoning of insanity, as to why! I have not commited to a New Sprinter either .
Richard

gerrym51
12-07-2007, 09:51 PM
Thinking fuel economy on the new Sprinters, I'd be more concerned as to looking at the poorer fuel economy,than the DPF.
The DPF will lower fuel returns slightly maybe by two to the gallon at the worst.
If The refineries clean up the fuel a little more, and started putting added synthetic fuel boasters to compensate for loss of Cetane, and lubricity, then the MPG would go up to a more reasonable MPG result say at the best 5MPG, not to mention better perfoming Engines.
Think about that one, there is no reason..."None" for it not to haapen! it was dissuced at govenment leval, and the cost was one to two cents a gallon ULSD conversion added another five cents against LSD Diesel.
Richard

2 miles per gallon is about 10%. bigger engine 2 miles 10%.
ulsd fuel 1%. bigger and heavier sprinter 1%.

add them all up and become (a lot of percents:idunno:)

:thumbup:

ps. i think the sprinter is a great van. a gas engine avoids at least all diesel questions.
i think when the time comes i will probably go this way,

Altered Sprinter
12-07-2007, 10:51 PM
2 miles per gallon is about 10%. bigger engine 2 miles 10%.
ulsd fuel 1%. bigger and heavier sprinter 1%.

add them all up and become (a lot of percents:idunno:)

:thumbup:

ps. i think the sprinter is a great van. a gas engine avoids at least all diesel questions.
i think when the time comes i will probably go this way,
Gas engine fuel improvements up ten percent for 2008
That have the full Euro4 emission plant.
There are anomaly's with US sprinters? something I can look into in the new Year.

What most Sprinter owners fail to understand is the not so complexity of the vehicle itself, but as to the belief that all sprinters should return the same MPG

This is Mathematically impossible.
It depends on the configurations of the vehicles set up

There are folk who complain about fuel returns, It's a commercial vehicle that can carry huge loads. over three tonne.


Think about this a Mercedes SMART DOES BETWEEN 3.3 TO 5 PER LITER X100 kilometer.
A MERCEDES SPRINTER WITH THE PERFECT FOUR IN-LINE CAN DO JUST UNDER 9.5 PER HUNDRED PER LITER.
THAT IS FANTASTIC FUEL ECONOMY FOR A COMMERCIALLY BASED GOODS CARRYING VEHICLE.
PASSENGER V6 GAS YOUR LOOKING AT BETWEEN 15 TO 20 PER LITER X 100 K proven that gas engine consume 30% plus more fuel per kilometer than diesel. My DW has the smart Gas engine it does 5.5 perlitre per hundred Ks
My 313 does on average just under or over 10 per liter and it Carry's over three tonne.
sort of makes a mockery out of the super fuel efficient smarts that do between 45 to 60 mpg when you compare the size of the sprinter, hell you can even park a smart inside of a tin even.
5092

5093

5094

5095

5096
Richard

SprinterUSA1
12-07-2007, 11:45 PM
5092

Richard

That is a nice low frame on the cab chassis. Unfortunately also not available stateside. Probably for Camper conversions.


SprinterUSA1

Altered Sprinter
12-08-2007, 02:57 AM
That is a nice low frame on the cab chassis. Unfortunately also not available stateside. Probably for Camper conversions.


SprinterUSA1 That in part is the point, you miss out on the best of the MB range and all of the great technological advantages that are on offer.:drool: Campers play a large part of the equation Yes, But most are special purpose built for alternative options
These units Low chassis are available here, in Australia ordered only not inventory stock, most conversions are carried out in my home state and subsidiary outlets in Victoria, On the main land.
These units notice single wheel not dual are rated at 4.4 to 4.9 GVM front ends a massive 2000KG axle loading
rear have the 3500 spring set, the differential axles are solid not floating with extra H/D stabilizer bars up to two of with additional spring dampeners.
The vehicles have a low center of gravity , the advantage is little top end sway, MPG great for what they do.
and no warranty issues , chassis are continuously being modified and upgraded, the advantage of the virtual two world on-line video hook up... one to one.. with the techs or mechanics or the body builders , this system is state of the art when,both MB and the builders work in perfect harmony with each other.
It in part has been offered to the US under the NAFTA agreements, but you can bet it will be a hard call to instigate into the USA, there is still strong opposition to any thing foreign in the old school of Chrysler.
This has seriously impacted on the economy of the USA buy the very corporation's that squandered the wealth of opportunity,over the last three decades.

Richard
5098

5099

5100

Can you imagine the damage that would done to both GM and Ford... if these units were allowed in Stateside.
4500 series followed by 5500 to 6600
It would destroy the industry, that is struggling to compeate with it's out dated vehicles,that survive, only because of exepmtions.
What an a bussiness prosepct to be in, if the market opened up on these machines.... along with other brands Scarry Thoughts.
Richard
5101
5102

mattl
12-13-2007, 04:06 AM
i have no dought the dpf can last 500,000 miles, as a part.

the filling up with ash is the problem. even if it only fills up
at 150,000 miles it needs to be cleaned. i'm sure the filter itself
will still be usable.


:bow:

DPF's are self-cleaning devices. Cleaning should not be required during the vehicle's service life. It is possible it can "superclog" if the engine starts working weird (like it loses compression in a few cylinders and starts puffing a lot of carbon)

Basically the DPF fills with the soot which is basically solid carbon particulate. As the DPF fills up, backpressure increases and the temperature in the DPF increases, the PCM senses this and dumps fuel for a couple of seconds to spike the EGT which burns the carbon out of the filter, regenerating it.

The old DPF's on the Calif-spec MB OM617.95 engines were even simpler and only relied on the backpressure to regen the filter. The problem was it the car was slow, then became progressively slower until it burned out :clapping:

There should be a catalytic converter on the trucks too, it is a two-way catalyst not a three-way catalyst as used on gasoline powered cars, reason being is since diesel runs too lean, there is excess oxygen in the exhaust gas and thus the catalyst cannot reduce the NOx emissions as it can on a gas engine (since a gas engine exhaust contains no oxygen).

gerrym51
12-13-2007, 01:51 PM
DPF's are self-cleaning devices. Cleaning should not be required during the vehicle's service life. It is possible it can "superclog" if the engine starts working weird (like it loses compression in a few cylinders and starts puffing a lot of carbon)

Basically the DPF fills with the soot which is basically solid carbon particulate. As the DPF fills up, backpressure increases and the temperature in the DPF increases, the PCM senses this and dumps fuel for a couple of seconds to spike the EGT which burns the carbon out of the filter, regenerating it.

The old DPF's on the Calif-spec MB OM617.95 engines were even simpler and only relied on the backpressure to regen the filter. The problem was it the car was slow, then became progressively slower until it burned out :clapping:

There should be a catalytic converter on the trucks too, it is a two-way catalyst not a three-way catalyst as used on gasoline powered cars, reason being is since diesel runs too lean, there is excess oxygen in the exhaust gas and thus the catalyst cannot reduce the NOx emissions as it can on a gas engine (since a gas engine exhaust contains no oxygen).

Matt, like unburnable ash in a fireplace the dpf will eventually
fill up with ash between 90,000-140,000 miles. it has
to be cleaned out or van will go into limp-mode. once cleanmed
the dpf can be re-attached and used somemore.


gerry

jdcaples
12-18-2007, 01:36 PM
Data points:

Vehicle Accumulated Mileage: 2615 US miles

Fuel: not less than 95% Number 2 diesel, not more than 5% biodiesel

Distance traveled: 180 miles

City: ~100
Highway: ~80

Fuel consumed: 7.5 gallons


-Jon

lildevildee
12-19-2007, 05:59 AM
Nice, Jon. My last 3 tanks have been in the 17's but I have had more stop and go than normal. We're getting ready to move to the east coast; we will be towing a trailer and have a full load. I have a feeling that is going to kill my overall fuel economy!

mobileoilchange
12-21-2007, 12:32 PM
hello guys im new to this thread.
I have a question about the new sprinter 3500 chassis cab. I own a mobile vehicle repair business in michigan and right now my service vehicle is a 2005 ford E-350 dually cut away van with a 12 foot service body and 4.10 rear gears, 5 speed torque shift automatic transmission and a 5.4L gas engine. The gas mileage i get is 6 to 7 miles per gallon, and it stays the same whether im driving city or highway. My truck with all my tools and equipment, 1/2 tank of gas (25 US gallons) and with me in the truck... tips the scales at 10750 US pounds. My question is...im interested in a 2008 sprinter 3500 chassis cab dually in which ill have a unicell 14 foot van body installed that weighs 2250 US pounds including all my tools and equipment and with me (180 pounds) I figure it will tip the scales at about the same weight as my ford E-350 which is 10750. I know the sprinter has a GVW of 11030 pounds, but im tired of only getting 6-7 miles per gallon. Do any of you know if the sprinter will handle this weight daily and will the fuel mileage be better then what im getting now? I only put about 50 miles a day on my vehicle which is about 50/50 city and highway. Also i have had ZERO problems with my E350 its just the fuel mileage SUCKS!!!
Im either looking towards the 3500 chassis cab sprinter or the ford LCF with a international 4.5L V6 diesel that makes 200hp @ 2650 rpm and 440 lb.ft @ 1850 rpm and has a 16000 pound GVW. but then again the ford LCF is heavy and i know that will cut down on the fuel mileage.
Any help from you guys would be great
THANK YOU ALL
Scott.

BigBlueBus
12-21-2007, 03:11 PM
hello guys im new to this thread.
I have a question about the new sprinter 3500 chassis cab. I own a mobile vehicle repair business in michigan and right now my service vehicle is a 2005 ford E-350 dually cut away van with a 12 foot service body and 4.10 rear gears, 5 speed torque shift automatic transmission and a 5.4L gas engine. The gas mileage i get is 6 to 7 miles per gallon, and it stays the same whether im driving city or highway. My truck with all my tools and equipment, 1/2 tank of gas (25 US gallons) and with me in the truck... tips the scales at 10750 US pounds. My question is...im interested in a 2008 sprinter 3500 chassis cab dually in which ill have a unicell 14 foot van body installed that weighs 2250 US pounds including all my tools and equipment and with me (180 pounds) I figure it will tip the scales at about the same weight as my ford E-350 which is 10750. I know the sprinter has a GVW of 11030 pounds, but im tired of only getting 6-7 miles per gallon. Do any of you know if the sprinter will handle this weight daily and will the fuel mileage be better then what im getting now? I only put about 50 miles a day on my vehicle which is about 50/50 city and highway. Also i have had ZERO problems with my E350 its just the fuel mileage SUCKS!!!
Im either looking towards the 3500 chassis cab sprinter or the ford LCF with a international 4.5L V6 diesel that makes 200hp @ 2650 rpm and 440 lb.ft @ 1850 rpm and has a 16000 pound GVW. but then again the ford LCF is heavy and i know that will cut down on the fuel mileage.
Any help from you guys would be great
THANK YOU ALL
Scott.

All I can tell you is that I too get no more than 6-8 MPG on my Ford 2500 Econoline with 5.8L, when I switched to a new 2007 Sprinter which has lots more room and carrying capacity, I now get 18 combined city/highway and over 22 on the highway, with no wind and taking it easy I've averaged 25 so far! :cheers:

I knew I wanted a diesel but I did not want the Duramax nor the Ford for reliability issues and poor fuel mileage. I was thinking about installing a Cummins (best diesel engine out there, I have one in my Ram) into a Chevy van, I've seen it done; but then I found out about the Sprinter. One test drive and I was sold!!!

mobileoilchange
12-21-2007, 10:05 PM
like i said i do mobile vehicle and equipment service and repairs, so i service alot of different models and makes of vehicles. I service 3 different fleets of sprinters, but their all vans not chassis cabs. And they all say the same about the fuel mileage 18-24 mpg. But ill be hauling alot more weight then they do. I just dont wanna buy one of thses sprinter chassis cabs and be stuck with it and have the mileage suck like the service van that i have now, but i like to think itll get better then 12-14 with a full load which will just about max out the 11030 gvw. and all the sprinters that i service now (17 total) all have the 5 cylinder 2.7L so im not sure how a 3.0L will be with all my tools and equipment plus the weight of the service body. If i add up all the tool weight, equipment weight and service body weight plus the weight of the sprinter itself it comes to about 10750 - 11000 pounds. I could drop about 500-700 pounds off that maybe. My hopes are high. If these sprinters wernt made by mercedes benz and made only by dodge i wouldnt even think of buying one, but since MB makes them ive been interested. Although repair parts are costly, i just replaced a turn signal/hazard flasher on one for one of my customers and it listed for $97.80 my cost was $50.44 and it took a week for it to arive. oh well!
thanks guys

Altered Sprinter
12-21-2007, 10:30 PM
Cab chassis models 906 are a differnt breed to the van series 902 903
The van cab chassis model you require is a true GVM of 4.4.9 GVM not those fake GVM ratings on the so called compliance plate.
Order the optional H/D suspension package from the dealer. Then have the cab chassis weighed,
Use an alloy base Light weight box frame addon or or tray combination , then re-weigh to determine your final available loading capacity.
As a cab chassis model with out options your Loading capacity based on a 4.4.9 GVm is 2000 KG Sorry you have not been offered the higher rated GVM models this is in conflict with the Dodge 4500 5500 series
Be aware many folk think they can load just about anything on the back of a sprinter, the longer the wheel base the higher you go the less it can load, this is the reason why Sprinters have 46 weight variations from 1.5 to 7 T
Richard
5320

5321

mobileoilchange
12-21-2007, 11:52 PM
im lost on the metric weights you say, the unicell fiberglass service body weighs 2250 us pounds and the sprinter cab chassis weighs 4570 us pounds for the 170" wheel base, and has a 6460 us pound payload, and a 11030 GVWR. so if i take 11030 GVWR minus 4570 pounds for the chassis = 6460 payload minus the 2250 pounds for the unicell fiberglass service body = 4210 pound payload. all my tools, equipment, fuel, driver etc = 4030 payload leaving me with 180 pounds to spare. but i may be able to reduce my tool weight by a few hundred pounds. Im just wondering if this sprinter will handle this load day in and day out and still get ok fuel mileage. also if i do order a sprinter 3500 chassis cab it will have the heavy duty suspension and sway bars etc...also ill install air bags or helper springs in the rear to stable the load. along with koni shocks and struts. my other question is how good are the sprinters brakes? thanks again guys
scott.

Sprinter
12-22-2007, 04:14 PM
like i said i do mobile vehicle and equipment service and repairs, so i service alot of different models and makes of vehicles. I service 3 different fleets of sprinters, but their all vans not chassis cabs. And they all say the same about the fuel mileage 18-24 mpg. But ill be hauling alot more weight then they do. I just dont wanna buy one of thses sprinter chassis cabs and be stuck with it and have the mileage suck like the service van that i have now, but i like to think itll get better then 12-14 with a full load which will just about max out the 11030 gvw. and all the sprinters that i service now (17 total) all have the 5 cylinder 2.7L so im not sure how a 3.0L will be with all my tools and equipment plus the weight of the service body. If i add up all the tool weight, equipment weight and service body weight plus the weight of the sprinter itself it comes to about 10750 - 11000 pounds. I could drop about 500-700 pounds off that maybe. My hopes are high. If these sprinters wernt made by mercedes benz and made only by dodge i wouldnt even think of buying one, but since MB makes them ive been interested. Although repair parts are costly, i just replaced a turn signal/hazard flasher on one for one of my customers and it listed for $97.80 my cost was $50.44 and it took a week for it to arive. oh well!
thanks guys


I remember some chassis Sprinter owners here were getting only 11-12 MPG! So be carefull, I had only MB diesels but if I'd ever get non Mercedes diesel that would be Cummins. Please don't buy PowerStroke, also known as Powerjoke... I feel bad for people working for Ford and loosing jobs but at the same time I know Ford deserves to be where it is for making past century crap product

contractor
12-22-2007, 05:01 PM
I was an automotive enginner for a Tier 1 supplier for Ford and worked extensively on the transmission for the F350 truck. I would never buy a Ford after my experience with their design engineers and execution or lack there of. Sorry to be negative but that's the truth of it...

Altered Sprinter
12-22-2007, 09:31 PM
Cab chassis models may well run on a lesser MPG ratio it's in fairness based on loadings
18 MPG should be the bench mark for city dwellers with frequent stop and go starts
20 MPG for Urban 23 max for flat hi-way running at no more than 65 MPH
I believe the US Cab chassis models have a 72 MPH speed limiter any way.
Off to town to check the specs out on the big one just to be sure of suspension sets which is an option in the US .
Do not order the comfort two spring pak if you want to run heavier loads,
Richard

mobileoilchange
12-22-2007, 10:12 PM
I only owned fords my whole life, from 6.9l -7.3l and even the 6.0l and never had one single problem with any of them. I service them all from the international Dt466 to the Mercedes Benz MBE900. The best gas motor in a truck that i ever owned was the f150 with the 300 4.9l straight 6 with a 5 speed manual. theres nothing you could do to kill that thing. I would never own a dodge or gm product. but like i said since the sprinter is made by MB im thinking about it. Altered, from the chassis cabs that i looked at, at my local dealer they have 3 springs in the rear. even with 3 rear springs id add air bags or additional springs to steady the load, because on the way i need to lay out the tools and equipment in my truck. The tank system i have weighs 3200 pounds alone and that includes my air compressor, four 60 gallon tanks and one 120 gallon tank, plus six 50 foot hose reels, cabinets, tool box, tranny and coolant flush machine. I thought of maybe the ford LCF with the vt-275 v6 diesel which has 200hp and 440 lb-tq but from what i read it too only gets 10-12 mpg. but the lcf is a real truck with 16000-19000 gvw with a real frame and a tight turning radius and its a cab over. but everyone on this thread keeps saying they get 18-25 mpg but no one says anything about the sprinter chassis cab so im not sure of it yet.

Altered Sprinter
12-23-2007, 06:28 AM
Mobiloilchange
Note Sprinters are rated to 7Tonne Not TON = 15400 LBS
I'm still working on the options ,to see if we can get a local sprinter up to 13 thousand LBS It's possiable.
Richard
5378

mobileoilchange
12-23-2007, 12:03 PM
Re: Fuel economy - Diesel V6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobiloilchange
Note Sprinters are rated to 7Tonne Not TON = 15400 LBS
I'm still working on the options ,to see if we can get a local sprinter up to 13 thousand LBS It's possiable.
Richard


Altered: My main concern isnt so much about the weight, its if the truck will handle the weight daily. And being that the brakes are only 11.93" or 303mm and 11.81" or 300mm with dual piston calipers in the front and only a single piston caliper in the rear. Im not looking for a race truck, but It must support the weight and brake good with a 11000 pound load on a daily basic. As far as the payload rating goes,

http://www.upscaleauto.com/c2512_photos.htm


http://www.upscaleauto.com/air_bag_kit.htm

http://www.upscaleauto.com/sprinter_suspension.htm

contractor
12-23-2007, 01:19 PM
mobileoilchange
I understand your reluctance. Before I decided to go with the Sprinter, I looked at the Isuzu NPR Diesel which has a Big box and more like a commercial truck. I test drove one and it had a very tight turning radius ... not near as quiet but quite affordable. I didn't need to carry the payload but needed a nice cargo area and decided on the Super High style. The mileage I was told was around 12 - 14MPG. Look around and you'll see many on the roads.

mobileoilchange
12-23-2007, 02:59 PM
contractor Re: Fuel economy - Diesel V6

mobileoilchange
I understand your reluctance. Before I decided to go with the Sprinter, I looked at the Isuzu NPR Diesel which has a Big box and more like a commercial truck. I test drove one and it had a very tight turning radius ... not near as quiet but quite affordable. I didn't need to carry the payload but needed a nice cargo area and decided on the Super High style. The mileage I was told was around 12 - 14MPG. Look around and you'll see many on the roads.

Contractor, thats just it, I only seen 1 or 2 chassis cabs on the road here, but there are alot of them at the dealerships. most people are buying the vans not the chassis cabs. I cant fit my tank system into a sprinter van because its 50" wide x 120" long and when all my tanks are filled with liquids the total weight is 3300 pounds almost. plus i have two flush machines that are 24"w x 24"d x 45" tall and the other is 36"w x 24"d x 45" tall. then i have a 18"d x 90"w x 72" tall cabinet which holds all my supplies, then i have a snap on tool box which loaded weighs about 350-375 pounds. so theres no way i can fit all of that into a sprinter van. Im leaning towards a srpinter chassis cab with a 96"w x 15'long x 78" tall fiberglass unicell body. which is pretty much the same as i have now on my ford E350 and its just enough room. the ford lcf with a 4.5l v6 diesel gets 11-15mpg hauling a 10000-15000 pound payload. "so says some of the customers i service that have them in there fleet" i know the sprinter will handle the weight because my ford e350 has a gvw of 11700 and it handles it great, but the gas mileage sucks at only 6-61/2 mpg and that dosnt matter if its city or highway driving...it stays the same either way. so even if the sprinter gets 11-15mpg im still ahead, but i cant make up my mind between the sprinter or the ford lcf. the plusses on the lcf are payload, 14" disk brakes all around with abs, a bigger payload, tighter turning radius, bigger tires, a heavy duty frame, etc....the pluses on the sprinter are smother ride and maybe better fuel mileage then the ford lcf, and its lighter so my insurance for transportation of used fluids would be cheaper. but the sprinter also has some nice options compaired to the lcf. and price wise the sprinter is only 1000-2000 dollars more depending on how i order it option wise. im a die hard ford man and owned nothing else in my life.....but now a days its a fuel mileage war and with gas at 3.50 a gallon almost at 6 mpg its killing my profits. each time i fill up its 190.00+ dollars and that only last about 330 miles and if im lucky itll last about 5 days because i work 7 days a week.
THIS SUCKS!

mobileoilchange
12-23-2007, 03:04 PM
one more thing contractor, are you getting 12-14 mpg with your sprinter or did you mean with the npr? and look around for what? im a little :snore: this morning

i service alot of the sprinters in some fleets i service, but they are all vans and all have the 5 cylinder 2.7l so i cant compair it to them. they use them for produce - office supplies - florist etc. so i know they arnt loading them with alot of weight.

thanks for your imput scott

contractor
12-23-2007, 03:19 PM
Hello mobiloilchange
I own the T1N earlier model 2006 Sprinter and typically get 21 MPG in summer and 18-19 MPG in the winter hauling a payload of maybe 1,500lbs.
I said you may want to look at the Isuzu NPR Diesel that I test drove at first and heard it gets 12-14 MPG. There is also a Mitsubishi that is a competitive model. I thought Chevy and Ford did offer a product under their name but I believe it's an Isuzu ... not sure. It sounds like you really need a heavy duty commercial truck hauling all that weight.

BigBlueBus
12-23-2007, 04:37 PM
Hello mobiloilchange;
I owned a 2001 Isuzu NQR (it's the heavy duty version of the NPR), 170 wheelbase, GVWR was a whopping 19,000 lbs, it had the 4.9L diesel. I used it for hauling building materials when I was building houses, like stone, bricks, drywall, lumber etc. I remember one time filling up the 18ft. flatbed with 150 sheets of drywall. I am sure I was well over the recommended max payload. The engine pulled the load like it was just carrying 20 sheets and the suspension was not bottommed out yet. But even with such a heavy load, the ride was terrible. If I didn't always wear a seatbelt, I would hit my head on the ceiling at every bump in the road. I had the NQR for 2 years but my body could not take the abuse anymore, and I had to give up my early morning coffee or having any kind of open drinks in the cab for the whole 2 years; On my first ride home from the dealership, I made the mistake of stopping at the drivethru for lunch only to have to clean coke and sandwich remains from the headliner, dash, floor, seats, etc.

While it did have a tight turning radius, the pedal position was very ackward, both pedals are on the right side of the steering column, so I could not use my left foot for anything; I like to brake with the left and operate the accel. with the right. This was hard getting used to, in fact, I never did after driving with two feet for 20+ years. Isuzu has a great work horse, I should say mule, because I've ridden both, and I'd much prefer to ride a horse than a mule, my ass found this out the hard way. Isuzu needs to redesign their cab, suspension, etc for me to even consider another cab-over. I'm sure the LCF rides and feels just like the NQR I had.

As far as fuel mileage, it's not bad in the city but the FLAT front end is like a big sail and if you're traveling on the highway mostly or with any head wind anytime, you better kiss any hope of decent fuel mileage goodbye.

If your van has handled the load ok for all these years and your only concern is mileage, I believe the Sprinter 3500 should serve you well. There are several threads here about mileage on a chasis cab Sprinter, you'll just have to do a search.

Anyway, these are my 2cents.

Good luck,
John

Altered Sprinter
12-23-2007, 04:58 PM
Mobiloilchange
I'm getting slightly confused, sorry.
Plain English Dead weight How much do you want to carry... forget the Vehicles weight.
At this point of time, I can get the total GCWR up to 15250 LBs..This is a special order so you are looking at March next year if it can't be assembled at Ladson.
Sprinters are not classed 4500 they are classed 3500 in the US ! But they can be optioned up to 4.9 GVM
You need
X2B Rear Spring Firmer
XCB Rear Spring Vibration Asorbers
Rear
SEA H/D Stabilzing Bar Higher Rating 1130 Lb
Higher
58 C Rear Axle Stabilzing Bar High Capacity
3 B5 Shock Asborbers Higher Body Loading capacity That allows for attached cargo body.

Front
SHA Front Stabilzing Bar H/D allows for a Higher composite front spring rating
DKH 4080 rating 1850 KG 4080 Lbs uprated to 2000KG =4410 Lbs
combine these options and you hit the GVM of 13300 thousand pounds

Look at this differentail don't confuse it with the 2500 series or base 3500 Differential that is minus the H/D axle that goes from semie floating to fixed soild axles
5379

5380

5381

Springs
These three of are an uprated spring not your stanadrd ones
Higher composite and tension rating it's important to order the dampener shock and or anti vibration pads. XCB ...
This number must be on the top spring DC A 906 320 207 followed by Q0003 or Z3000

5383
Diff can be special ordered with air brakes and diff lock if required you need the Parameterisable special module to activate the sleeper.

5382
As for aftermarket add on suspension, you lose warranty and definitly will throw the ESP Adaptive system out of line potentially a death trap it may work on a 2500 Lighter vehicle not on 5 Tonn
VB ISO Air ride certified by Mercedes-Benz costs over six thousand dollars plus fitting.
Your next option is Mitsubsihi which is a MB product believe it or not or a local Dodge ram at least they have Diesel and Blutec Good mileage for what they are.
Or an imported Unimog:smilewink: PS Diff ratio..final axle ratio has to be 3.923
Richard

mobileoilchange
12-23-2007, 10:39 PM
i drove a ford lcf with a 137" wheel base which is what id need for a 14 foot long box and this was just a bare chassis. it rode ok not to harsh, but i know a longer (170" wheel base) would ride smoother.

altered:
in the usa we too can get a 15250 gcwr on our sprinters. which is standard. its all here in the brochure i got from the dealership. and it stated that the sprinter 3500 chassis cab has a payload of 6460 lbs....

6460 payload
2250 unicell body
3250 tank set up
400 flush machines
350 tools
210 pounds left to spare

we dont have a optional 3500 chassis cab rear axle, all of our dually 3500's have the same rear axle. the only rear option on the 3500 dually axle is the gearing 3.92 or 4.18
looking at some of the pics you listyed it looks like a few pics show the rear ends with drum brakes???? ours have disk. unless thats a dust shield. but from the pic it looks like drums. and as far as the warrenty goes, i dont care :tongue:

theres no way id buy a jap truck, i work on them and do enough work on them that i made a good living :bounce: all the chassis cab sprinters i looked at from the dealerships has full floating rear axles. we dont offer a sprinter 2500 chassis cab, only a 3500 chassis cab. If it comes down to it ill buy the ford lcf, but from what i read or talk to owners about from the fleets that i service, all the cab overs whether its a fuso, npr or lcf or w4500 they all get about 10-14mpg. But like i said before, from what everyone says on here about the sprinters getting 16-24mpg its worth the gamble...i think. i just dont wanna drop 45000-50000 dollars on a sprinter and 1) it eats brakes because of the small rotor size 2) eats trannys 3) dont move out of its own way 4) fuel mileage is less then a tilt cab truck.

mobileoilchange
12-23-2007, 10:52 PM
altered after looking at your pics again i see there disc brake covers and not drum brakes lol, also i was looking at the sprinter brochure again and the springs you listed are standard on our sprinters.
4410 lb front
7720 lb rear
15250 lb gcwr
11030 gvwr

but the payload is only rated at 6460 lbs on the 170" wheel base anything over the 6460 payload is over loading.
the 15250 is not the gvw thats the gcwr (gross combined weight rating)

Altered Sprinter
12-24-2007, 01:15 AM
altered after looking at your pics again i see there disc brake covers and not drum brakes lol, also i was looking at the sprinter brochure again and the springs you listed are standard on our sprinters.
4410 lb front
7720 lb rear
15250 lb gcwr
11030 gvwr

but the payload is only rated at 6460 lbs on the 170" wheel base anything over the 6460 payload is over loading.
the 15250 is not the gvw thats the gcwr (gross combined weight rating)

Hi Mobiloilchange Just for a minute think about it. Your Sprinters have base rates:hmmm: to get the cab chassis up to specs for your order... there's a standard, then two options with three weight variations of optional choices, you are limited by not having the real time Mercedes_Benz Options for a further 44 weight variations
Your Sprinters are delivered with a non compliance Plate
Any works done to modify a cab chassis unit requires a further final GVM plate, you don't have them as yet, WHY! Ask George and those rat bags at the DOT EPA and the toothless Café Guys who can't work Marther from Arthur out.
Cab Chassis units are delivered part assembled and are with de-weighted specs, there is a reason for this. Standard ..RV option and the last is for special cab over chassis variations for X= What ever, and Armored vehicles etc. When a vehicle is modified by a Outside body builder the company works on line with D.AG to consult with the engineers to arrange to build a vehicle that is suitable for the customers use.
At the point of compleation a new GWR Compliance plate is placed on the vehicle by the DOT
This does not happen in the N/American sector as of yet, for example Winnebago got them selves into a hell of a mess with the 2500 series very hush, hush in house we look after our own. Interesting the 07 models now runs as near to specs as possible Dam lair AG does not warrant any Sprinter made in the states or exported to the States complete , the warranty is a stand alone US warranty.
GVM weight is certified world-wide for countires using ISO standards. Front and rear ratings determine the GVM only... not curb weight. this only works on an empty unit.
Train weight and Gross train weight give an accurate rating for Loading and towing capability. On the rear spring this is the number by the numbers
DC/A906/320/007___Q306 and or Z003
DC =Daimler Chrysler
A = Argentina but not always correct. they were once the main axle provider.
320= Is the 00 to 2005 late, is the base spring rating fro a 3500 series van.
This is configured between 3.3T to 4.1 T
Cab& Vans have carried over the 320 spring 08 May get 350 as elsewhere as the vans and cabs have a higher weight variant, depending on which country there are deliver if over limit the vehicle is automatically de-weighted to comply to the country of origin that it is sent to.
The GVM plate is flawed, as are the engine specs. The sites and books still quote the V6 as a four cylinder along with RPM etc.
007 = year of production
Q306 and Z003 is the indicator for the rear springs Two different sets for camper RV and H/D use.
No number is the same, as each is part of the Vin plate register for tracking part numbers.
The Cab chassis model I showed you is a 515 CDI
GVM rating have changed down here in Australia including a massive crack down on body builders to get the vehicles registered and to also have full MB warranty.

5391

5392
Used on non ESP adaptive Sprinters =Air suspension
5393
The information I have given is correct to the nearest pound! But I still am not 100% of what was done to the chassis for reinforcement to allow these Sprinters with a higher option. to comply? I'm not sure if you have been offered this differential HL-2-8
5396
Cab attachment points for a luton Body all glass.and light weight air frames
5395
Best of luck! and have a Merry Christmas.
PS all vehicles shown have disc brakes with ventilated covers. sorry mised that one.

Richard

mobileoilchange
12-24-2007, 09:29 AM
altered,
again i am lost by your lingo, what is your gvm? gross vehicle metric??? im not sure what a gvm is. in the states we use gvw. and anything with a gvw of 10,001 pounds or more needs a U.S. DOT number. and according to the brochure we do have suspension and spring options, BUT we dont have the air bag or air brake options. Sprinters are NOT heavy duty trucks, they are only 3/4 and 1 ton vans and chassis cabs. And in my opinion anything with a unibody isnt heavy duty at all. Only a framed truck can be labled at heavy duty. lets say for example you have a payload of 6000 pounds on a chassis cab, and then you install a 2000 pound dump body onto this chassis cab, you are now only left with a 4000 pound payload of say dirt or stone etc.

The GCWR is the Gross Combination Weight Rating. This is the vehicle manufacturer's maximum weight rating for the combination of the towing vehicle and towed trailer. It is the maximum sum the weight of the vehicle and its load, and the trailer and its load, can operate safely. The other ratings must also not be exceeded.

The GVWR is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. This is the maximum weight the manufacturer states the vehicle and its load can weigh and still operate safely.

the sprinter chassis cab WITHOUT a service body, dump body, box etc has a GVWR of 11030 us pounds
the sprinter chassis cab WITHOUT a service body, dump body, box etc has a GCWR of 15250 us pounds

MB does not recommend weights above this.

the axle ratings on the 3500 chassis cab with a 170" wheel base are.....
standard GAWR 4080 LBS front
optional GAWR 4410 LBS front

standard GAWR 7720 LBS rear

Altered Sprinter
12-24-2007, 11:43 AM
Mobiloilchange
Hi Its almost midnight Christmas day in 30 minutes.
I'll pick up on this in the morning OK.
It will take me half an hour to go through the weights step by step Your close very close but we can squeeze a little more out of it.
PS Gross Vehicle Mass Yes the total registered GVM
Richard

biggy herm
12-24-2007, 11:54 PM
Mobiloilchange
Hi Its almost midnight Christmas day in 30 minutes.

Richard


Its only 4:50pm! :thinking: still have 7 hours.

Merry Christmas

Altered Sprinter
12-25-2007, 01:16 AM
Its only 4:50pm! :thinking: still have 7 hours.

Merry Christmas
Father Christmas Devil's First:clapping: in the Land Down Under! Where the long White Sprinters Roam:smilewink: All Delivery's via Ten Tonne Unimogs even.
5472
5473
I must have hit the jack pot:thinking: I got all of my christmas wishes! 'every one single one':bow:

PS MY babys been a Good MB, and she gets lots of treats! Red-line for 12 more months.. Lots of 15W-40 Oil! The real Mc Coy.. Airfilters. Fuel filters. and Oil filters. all at cost.. thanks:clapping: to my freinds at MB.
May you all have a Merry, Merry, Merry........................ Christmas:popcorn:
Richard5471

Sprinter
12-25-2007, 05:55 PM
That Is One Awesome Preetty Unimog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mobileoilchange
12-31-2007, 03:27 AM
Can anyone that owns a 3500 sprinter dually van or chassis cab tell me the fuel mileage they are getting and what kind of payload they are hauling. Also if its a van or chassis cab. If its a chassis cab, what kind of bed or body you have mounted on to the chassis. Im in the market to purchase a new service vehicle for my business but cant make up my mind on which to get.
Thanks Scott

saltywhenwet
01-04-2008, 04:01 AM
when I got my sprinter I was getting around 18mpg mostly on the freeway, then I got roof racks and my mileage went down to about 15-16mpg:idunno:. About a week ago I did my 10000 mile dealer service and with new oil and filters(13 quarts of mobile 1 = $170:eek:), now I am getting around 17-18mpg. :hmmm:

Sprinter
01-30-2008, 02:45 AM
Outside temperature seems to be big factor!

I just made trip Chicago - Atlanta 750miles.

I left Chicago at -3 deg F all the way to Kentucky where it went up to 28 deg F - 370 miles on 20 gallons = 18.5 MPG ( 2000 pound load, 67 mph cruise speed, Shell fuel)

After fill up (Shell station, same load, same speed) 32 deg KY to 55 deg F in Atlanta - 430 miles on 20 gallons = 21.5 MPG!!!

4.182 rear, Red Line 3 winter additive, recently running on Mobil 5W-40 ESP from MB dealership @ $5.90/quart!

Maximan
08-20-2011, 12:56 PM
9.8 ltr per 100klm at moment 70 % hy-way 30% city driving .319 LWB :cheers:....:thumbup:...:bounce:

anomaly
08-20-2011, 01:02 PM
Completely agree. Best mileage ever came on a cool, slightly humid summer evening...

claudalfa
08-21-2011, 05:07 PM
14.85 at 60MPH going accross US from Sarnia Ontario to Tualatin in Oregon
Lots of mountain driving

5000 miles on this trip up to now and 22,000 on our Diesel

and this is a Winn View 24J:thumbup:

dukepilot
08-21-2011, 07:30 PM
I'm getting 23mpg avg mixed and 27-28+ on the highway:thumbup:

OrioN
08-21-2011, 08:37 PM
33 mpg
or
7.12 l/100km