Traction Control

Hey Guys,

I was talking with someone unfamiliar with Sprinters but VERY knowledgable about VW's and AUDI's the other day and I was whining about the traction control being kind of a drawback and how it's difficult to get around that function in the sprinters and he suggested wiring all four sensors to one wheel so it would never know you were spinning. Is that a possibility? :idunno:
 

GEARS

2005 140WB standard roof
Please let me know what you find out because the Sprinter's traction control is lame.

:rant: Even when you turn off the traction control you still have to deal with the other ultra-lame anti roll your van over control locking up the brakes and cutting engine power while you're trying to make a good run at a snow covered hill.
 

shortshort

Dis member
Huh? I've been slogging through mud and up steep, sloppy construction roads for years and never even touched the off button on the thing. The light flashes when the wheels are slipping but it goes where I point it.
 

Deltapco

Member
I have the 2007 High Roof extended WB 2500. The first time I took it out in the snow I will admit to being a little apprehensive. At my destination there was enough open area that was not worried about hurting anything or anyone so I decided to come to terms with the technology in this van.
I was amazed, with the systems all engaged I could not get those wheels out of line for love nor money. A real confidence booster for the way home.

Yes, simple traction control is a little lame on a standard transmission (that is what the left foot and the clutch are for) but the systems on this automatic van go way beyond just managing some wheel-spin on the drive wheels.

That said, I will 'never' use the cruise control on a slippery road even with the TCS. I am not ready to let a machine do the driving for me when conditions are anything less than perfect.
 

GEARS

2005 140WB standard roof
When I have a couple thousand pounds of equipment in the back it's a tank and will go anywhere but empty it's about as worthless as a mid 80's Mustang GT with bald tires.:shifty:
 

chris118

Member
oh I am seriously interested in this.
I take my van all over the place on 4wd roads and even some beaches.
It has no real problems except with sand or mud(where the wheels spin).
I keep my hand on the traction control off switch but the engine still cuts power and the wheels break every now and then, killing the van's momentum.

I am sure there has to be some con's to doing this modification.
opinions...:popcorn:
 

sailquik

Well-known member
OK, I've been pretty vocal about the "diabolical Sprinter Traction Control (ASR)" but I've also suggested that once you get the Sprinter moving, the Sprinter ASR morphs from "diabolical" to
"wonderful/magical" and probably "life saving"!
So, shut it off to get moving, and once you are moving at > 3 or 4 mph, turn it back on.
Try a patch of black ice covering both lanes on a road that has been totally dry (no snow/no ice at all) for the last 30 miles.
There are some pretty big ruts in the black ice.
I'm going about 60 mph.
Front wheels follow the ruts that lead to the RH side of the road.
Dual Rear Wheels (DRW) decide to follow the ruts that lead toward the median.
The Sprinter ASR applied some braking ( I have no idea what wheel or how much)
and by the time I got the 50 feet to the other side of the ice we were going nice and
straight.
For a minute there I thought we were headed off the road, through the ditch, and out
into a plowed field.
That's the "wonderful and perhaps life saving" Sprinter ASR "Traction Control".
I've also been unable to get the van to move in snow, sand, and on ice with the traction
control engaged from a standstill.
That's the diabolical part, but it's real easy to simply shut it off, let the van spin a wheel here and there, but get moving without having the brakes applied on the back axle until it stalls the engine.
With ASR OFF, the brakes may come on some, and there will be alot of across the back axle "which wheel is slipping now" going on, but it normally will not reduce the power enough to stall the engine.
Leave the ASR ON and all of the above occurs, then it all locks up and stalls the engine completely.
Kinda hard to get moving with those big rear disc brakes firmly clamped on both back wheels.
So, to get moving ASR can be your worst enemy, so.... turn it off.
Once you are moving.... ASR is your best friend, so get the ASR back in action before you do something that the ASR would have/could have prevented.
Just my opinion,
Roger
 

Deltapco

Member
Excellent suggestion:thumbup:. I have had that situation getting started on a small slope that is icy, I just backed up as far as I could and built enough momentum from idle to make it up, frustrating.
One more tool for the Sprinter tool belt, thank you.
 

GEARS

2005 140WB standard roof
I toggle the switch and back pedal the throttle and seem I get around pretty good, better when loaded, but wouldn't it be nice if we could manually bump the shifter to call for a short shift.

If we could do the usual traction control off and then bump the shifter to the right to call for an early shift into 2nd gear and gently load the engine on the torque converter it probably would work pretty good in conjunction with the traction control.

Can we program the ECM to allow this sort of shift?

:cheers:
 

Eric Experience

Well-known member
Gottohaveabenz.
Tampering with the wiring on the stability control would be a very stupid thing to do. MB spent millions developing the control system to make it possible for an unskilled driver to drive the sprinter in reasonable safety. It is not possible to make a system that reads the drivers mind all it can do is try to correct the errors.The stability control is on to protect you by not letting you get into a slide. If you want to drive off in very low traction conditions you can by telling the computor that you take charge of the safety issue and turn the asr off. What happens then is the computor helps you by pulsing the wheel that is spinning and you can drive of as if the diff was locked. Roger cliams that his does not work, may be a faulty batch of software in the usa market. To test you traction control place the vehicle with one rear wheel on wet grass and the other on concrete and then try to drive off, note one wheel will spin, then switch the asr off and then drive off this time there should be no wheel spin. If the there is wheel spin then your vehicle is faulty or you are using way to much throttle. Eric.
 
Thanks for the responses guys.

My question was is that a possibility? I would love to be able to toggle it so in the scenario's some here have spoke of come up (and we are not in Aussie land with 4x4 and every conceivable option) we may be able to make it through. I agree that traction control rocks 90% of the time but it would be great to have the ability to turn it OFF completely when we choose not a temporary disable of the wheel spin until i hit 38 MPH.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Gotta-have-a-Benz: That's a coll name with some if's in NAFTA LAND.
However the ASR is only a part of your Innovative ESP program . and yes you have limits but you also equally have an advantage with auto's .{If you think out side of square of ASR and look at the bigger picture.

The Adaptive ESP: is an innovative dynamic system. which also takes into the vehicles load into account.It adjectivally intervenes,eg.IF there is an imminent risk of skidding, by applying a braking force to one or more wheels and adjusting the engine output as required so as to help the driver with a hazardous situation.Asa well as adding directional stability Adaptive ESP combines the functions of the anti-Lock braking system [ABS] acceleration Skid control [ASR] electronic brake force distribution [EDD] Brake assist [BAS] and the optional start off Assist system not available on the tins But yes with the NCV.

Caution: Adaptive ESP can only act within the laws of physics.It is therefore imposable for ADAPTIVE ESP to prevent skidding form aquaplaning on water ice mud and soft packed snow with ice lying underneath. This equally applies to marbleized gravel rock on a hard clay pan based road ,especially if it's corrugated. If the driver exceeds the physical limits,even ADAPTIVE ESP will not be able to prevent an accident.

to explain the ability of the limitations of a standardized [ASR]...At first signs of wheel spin ,that is to say If the rotational speed of one the drive wheels suddenly increases ,ASR steps in to adjust the engine management,reduces the engine power and intervenes in the braking system to prevent extended wheel spin.
ASR ensures smooth start off and acceleration,without extended wheel spin or sideways drift.The result is improved traction -and -saftey - particularly on split-friction or slippery surfaces.

$x4 works in a similar manor but one has more accurate control of management for stability and low range options for selecting a final drive to move forward Z1 Z2 Z# Z4 transfer cases. 4x4 are not necessarily an AWD all wheel drive unit, like a sedan as you guys state side are used to, suburu is an example.

Where one can improve traction in selection of the correct tire, and pressure; standard highway tires are great on a black top in both normal and wet conditions, introduce ice and the standard tire will fail hence the option for a snow tire, or a mud tire if on dirt roads that are muddy and very slippery.

Tires for sprinters are a hard call as no one singular tire option caters for all round conditions each road application has it's own unique criteria for operating on , So we choose a all terrain tire but these still have differences and do not always work well for a particular road surface in adverse conditions. Basically your Sprinters are not 4x4 so limiting your options are not going to resolve the situations,whereas some of you complain about over the years.

Part of the problem is the NAFTA engine management system Mismatched HP ,RPM and Torque specif actions with a Universal final axle ratio, and transmission ratios matched to the RPM that are not a standard Mercedes -Benz preset. this could have been avoided if Benz provided a lower ratio for 1st and reverse gear.for the NAFTA regions . It's interesting now since July 2009 the options for a wide tooth transmission are still not availbe in the NAFTA regions.:idunno:
Richard
 
Richard

I appreciate your explanation. The traction control system is engineered to help us from ourselves on unsavory road conditions. Typically I am my own worst enemy. :crazy:


Still my question hangs out there, would wiring all the wheel sensors to one wheel cheat the system or would some other part of the system recognize an issue and throw codes? I don't want to do this personally but others who have posted about it may.

I do understand this is task is NOT ADVISED.
 

220629

Well-known member
Richard

...

Still my question hangs out there, would wiring all the wheel sensors to one wheel cheat the system or would some other part of the system recognize an issue and throw codes?

...

I do understand this is task is NOT ADVISED.
As long as we're in agreement that it is a stupid idea....

My guess is that it would work if the computer doesn't see that the wires have all been put together, and it very well may see the cross connections. The sensors just provide a trigger signal so there shouldn't be a problem with the circuit loading down. I recall someone who put a Sprinter engine in another vehicle using a tone wheel (on the drive shaft?) to get past the computer being unhappy. That may have been different though.

Here's some more info on the safety systems for those who may be interested. vic

Driving Safety Systems ESP ABS ASR BAS EBD
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13202
 

GEARS

2005 140WB standard roof
This traction control might be might be for unskilled drivers but why are we trying to make something idiot proof? So we can put an idiot behind the wheel?

My Sprinter is stuck in a driveway that has an ever so slight incline. It's so pathetically stuck that I would love to let everyone here give it their best try just to laugh at the scientific explanation for why it's stuck.

I'm sure it would go like this, "Mercedes designed the Sprinter to get stuck as a safety feature ensuring that the driver wouldn't get on the road and risk their life..."
 
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Hoppingmad

Member
ASR, my used DHL truck didnt even have the switch. But the wires were there and it is now.

Was very annoying trying to drive thru slippery with the brakes engaging , and engageing harder as you stepped on the gas. Glad the wires were there. But still cant get up my brothers drive. He attacks it by leaving the road around 40mph, wiggling the s curve, a hoping for the best going uphill. LOL We've had to lower it down the hill with a block and tackle once, to slippery to steer and back up.
 

Hoppingmad

Member
"Mercedes designed the Sprinter to get stuck as a safety feature ensuring that the driver would get on the road and risk their life..."

LOL
 

chris118

Member
In theory I guess it is a good traction control system. I figured the consensus here would be not to mess with it, but it did seem like an interesting modification idea.

In practice the traction control system is another story. I know the van isn't a 4wd and I am taking beyond what it was designed for. But when you get stuck because the road turned to a deeper sand and the wheels start to spin, it cuts power and therefore all your momentum from 15mph to like 3-4mph. If I could just keep the power I know I could get through with out any problem. My old 2wd dakota could with out any issue.

What's really frustrating is getting to this remote section on the coast in mexico where I got stuck on my way out there, only to find a bunch of beat to hell old 2wd sedans and station wagons with less clearance and smaller tires at the end of the road!:censored:

maybe I'm not understanding the best way to use the system:idunno:
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Richard

I appreciate your explanation. The traction control system is engineered to help us from ourselves on unsavory road conditions. Typically I am my own worst enemy. :crazy:


Still my question hangs out there, would wiring all the wheel sensors to one wheel cheat the system or would some other part of the system recognize an issue and throw codes? I don't want to do this personally but others who have posted about it may.

I do understand this is task is NOT ADVISED.
Speed sensors: Anti-Lock system [ABS]
The anti-lock braking system [ABS] prevents the wheels from locking during braking .The speed sensors continually monitor each wheel.
If a wheel is on the point of locking up , the brake pressure at that wheel is reduced.When the danger of locking has been averted,the pressure is then increased again.ABS helps the driver to maintain control of the vehicle's steering, even during emergency braking.
When ABS is in operation , the driver feels a slight pulsing in the brake pedal. How many threads relate to this one with shimmy on the front ????
I have tested both Tin and NCV under extreme operation on the local race track at home.trust me they work like a treat, almost fool proof but not off road on adverse road conditions again tire and transmission ratios let you down as to lack of options being advised to a customer via the sales reps.
BRAKE ASSIST [BAS] comes into play, after this one.
Richard
DSC01049 (Large) (Custom).jpg
 

david_42

Active member
I wouldn't mind killing the ASR. All it has ever done is shut down the engine when I'm trying to get up my driveway. I've never seen it activate under any other conditions. Not once!
 

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