Sure Power Aux Start Connection T1N

Can't seem to find the info I'm searching for. I need a connection point for the automatic start function on a Sure Power 1315-200 separator. This is the instruction from Sure Power:
Thanks.

I found mine on the starter relay under the driver's seat. Don;t remember exactly which one or which lead, but if you have an electric probe, you should be able to find it.
I'll look through my documents to see if I can find out and get back to you.

Here it is:
Starter relay
#12 on Fuse block 2 under the driver's seat. You want to tap into the signal lead in the relay. Not sure which lead that is, but you should be able to test it with your meter.

BTW, that looks like a great Battery Separator.

ASSIST IN ENGINE STARTING:
When the starter is activated the Battery Separator compares the voltage of both battery banks. If the chassis' battery is lower than the auxiliary battery bank, the Battery Separator will engage, allowing the auxiliary battery bank to aid in vehicle starting. The start signal must be at least three volts for this operation to occur

Click to expand...

http://www.surepower.com/pdf/separatorinterconnect.pdf
If I ever have reason to replace my BlueSea 7610-SI charge controller, I think this might be the one.
Of course that would cause aux power dropout/surge on starting and might be a problem if you have sensitive equipment attached to your house batteries.

Colorado_Al said:

I found mine on the starter relay under the driver's seat. Don;t remember exactly which one or which lead, but if you have an electric probe, you should be able to find it.
I'll look through my documents to see if I can find out and get back to you.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Al. Found it in the service manual. In the relay block under the seat. Should be the Black/yellow wire to the #30 pin? Could be the VT wire on pin #87. I'll probe tomorrow. Did you splice in the lead to the separator?

Colorado_Al said:

Here it is:
Starter relay
#12 on Fuse block 2 under the driver's seat. You want to tap into the signal lead in the relay. Not sure which lead that is, but you should be able to test it with your meter.

BTW, that looks like a great Battery Separator.

http://www.surepower.com/pdf/separatorinterconnect.pdf
If I ever have reason to replace my BlueSea 7610-SI charge controller, I think this might be the one.
Of course that would cause aux power dropout/surge on starting and might be a problem if you have sensitive equipment attached to your house batteries.

Click to expand...

The electrical is really starting to come together. If FedEx isn't iced in tomorrow, I should get my cabling to hook up the aux battery. Planning on posting when that work is complete.

If I understand correctly, the aux battery connects to the start battery only when necessary. We can have laptop chargers and such stored at those times. Might be a good question to run past the SurePower tech guys.

For what it's worth, here are my experiences with the 1315-100 bi-directional relay:

I don't have the aux start wires hooked up. My only connections are from the positive of the starter battery (maint. free 100 amp flooded) to the batt. side of the 1315-100 then from the Aux side of the 1315-100 to the positive side of the aux battery (two 6 volt AGMs 224 amps).

I am fused between the starter battery and the 1315-100.

I have a 150 amp manual reset circuit breaker between the 1315-100 and the aux batteries.

I've noted that the aux AGM batteries tend to hold a higher charge voltage than the starter battery. So, when when the vehicle is not running, the starter battery is taking about .7 or .8 amps from the aux batteries. I have been told that this condition may not be good for the starter battery due to possible over charging.

So, when not running, I turn of the circuit breaker between the aux batteries and the 1315-100 so that there is no voltage going from the aux batteries to the starter battery.

I know this defeats the purpose of the bidirectional properties of the 1315-100 but I don't want to overcharge the starter battery.

I also have a Xantrex Freedom SW 2000 inverter charger for the aux batteries. If I leave the 1315-100 on during charging, I believe the Xantrex may get confused as it sees both the flooded and the AGM batteries and tries to bring everything up to charge.

Smart folks have told me that charging two different types of batteries (flooded and AGM) is not a good idea as the flooded may get overcharged. Also, the ages of the batteries are quite different.

Hope you find this information useful. It's just my experience.

Rick
Oak Harbor, WA

Ricksan said:

For what it's worth, here are my experiences with the 1315-100 bi-directional relay:
I don't have the aux start wires hooked up. My only connections are from the positive of the starter battery (maint. free 100 amp flooded) to the batt. side of the 1315-100 then from the Aux side of the 1315-100 to the positive side of the aux battery (two 6 volt AGMs 224 amps). I am fused between the starter battery and the 1315-100. I have a 150 amp manual reset circuit breaker between the 1315-100 and the aux batteries.

Click to expand...

I have the same plan. Where did you get your circuit breaker, Rick?

I've noted that the aux AGM batteries tend to hold a higher charge voltage than the starter battery. So, when when the vehicle is not running, the starter battery is taking about .7 or .8 amps from the aux batteries. I have been told that this condition may not be good for the starter battery due to possible over charging.

Click to expand...

Is this something you've checked? Just curious.

So, when not running, I turn of the circuit breaker between the aux batteries and the 1315-100 so that there is no voltage going from the aux batteries to the starter battery. I know this defeats the purpose of the bidirectional properties of the 1315-100 but I don't want to overcharge the starter battery.

Click to expand...

I'll try to check this with SurePower. I found this file View attachment ebr_int.pdf on SurePower's site last night. Don't know its contents yet. Reading it today.

I also have a Xantrex Freedom SW 2000 inverter charger for the aux batteries. If I leave the 1315-100 on during charging, I believe the Xantrex may get confused as it sees both the flooded and the AGM batteries and tries to bring everything up to charge.

Click to expand...

I'm checking into this today, also. Have heard some similar comments, but it's hard at times to keep it all straight.

Smart folks have told me that charging two different types of batteries (flooded and AGM) is not a good idea as the flooded may get overcharged. Also, the ages of the batteries are quite different.

Click to expand...

Sales guy said van had new battery. I guess if it's shiny looking it must be new, right? Why can't people punch out the dates. Off to get the start battery checked since it's only holding low 12s. Anyhow, start battery will be replaced with a DEKA or BRAILLE AGM. That will give me like chemistry and new batteries front and rear.

Hope you find this information useful. It's just my experience.

Rick
Oak Harbor, WA

Click to expand...

As you have read, yes I did. Thanks.

Hi Keven,

I bought my Bussmann 150 Amp circuit breaker at Amazon $24.05
http://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-Hi-Amp-Circuit-Breaker-Amps/dp/B0024JOKM4

Be careful of the knockoffs that are out there on EBAY as I also bought a 250 Amp breaker that trips at less than 90 amps (this breaker is used between the Xantrex and the aux batteries). I am now upgrading to a bussmann 200 amp marine rated (also from Ebay but from a more reputable dealer = Burnstines Distributing). The Xantrex installation instructions call for a 250 amp breaker but I can't find one that is surface mounted and I don't want to spend the $188 for a panel mounted breaker (this is all for the wife's darn microwave)!

I checked the voltage on the starter battery this AM (via Scan Gauge II) and got 12.5 volts. My Tri-Metric was reading the AGMs at 13.1 volts. When I got home this evening I rechecked and the starter voltage was still 12.5v and the aux batteries were 13v (I did not drive the Sprinter today so the batteries were rested). I turned on the circuit between the aux batteries and the Sure Power to see if any voltage would go to the starter batteries from the aux batteries. The Scan Gauge and the Tri-Metric both indicated no change. So, I guess that the voltage on the aux batteries at 13v was not enough to open the Sure Power to the starter battery (a good thing).

Here is what I think is happening: The AGM batteries charge faster and can take a higher voltage than the house (flooded battery). This would be via the Xantrex or via the 115 amp alternator while driving. After charging has been stopped, the AGMs are still holding the higher charge (for awhile at least) and if they are above 13.7 volts will send a charge through the Sure Power to the starter battery (bad but not that bad).

The really bad would be if the circuit breaker was on while charging with the Xantrex as the charger will try to bring the flooded starter up to the same voltage as the AGMs (the Xantrex is set to charge AGMs). I also believe this could be bad for the charger to since it won't go to float as long as it sees the flooded battery at a lower voltage (guessing here).

As an additional note: when I spoke with the Sure Power folks they recommended the 1315-200 for my 115 amp alternator. I actually did order that from my RV supply but got the wrong one in (1315-100). I should have known that I wasn't getting the good deal at only $90 but the sales guy assured me we were talking about the 200 amp model (he was wrong!). And I'm too impatient to send stuff back. The Sure Power guy did say that my 100 amp unit could handle up to 120 amps...

Hope this helps
Rick
Oak Harbor, WA