Use bio-diesel? You need to upgrade your fuel hose

Colorado_Al

Colorado_Al

Well-known member
If you use bio-diesel you need to upgrade your fuel lines to fluoroelastomer lined hose. Stock unlined nitrile hose will breakdown and start leaking.

I just got a killer deal on 250 ft of SAE J30R9 fluoroelastomer lined 3/8" hose. Happy to share the wealth with other Sprinter-Source folks.

This stuff usually sells for $6-$9/foot.

My cost $2.75/foot.

Your cost $2.75/foot.

Min 10 feet. You pay shipping.

See my post here and PM me if you want some:
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13798
 
Last edited:
D

danski0224

Active member
Are you talking about homebrew biodiesel or purchasing commercially available biodiesel blends?

Here in Illinois, it is just about impossible to buy 100% dino diesel. All pumps have stickers that claim "5% to 20% biodiesel blend", and I have only seen 1 commercial station in my local travels that had signage stating "100% dino diesel" (Mobil station located near I55 on 52).
 
Colorado_Al

Colorado_Al

Well-known member
danski0224 said:
Are you talking about homebrew biodiesel or purchasing commercially available biodiesel blends?

Here in Illinois, it is just about impossible to buy 100% dino diesel. All pumps have stickers that claim "5% to 20% biodiesel blend", and I have only seen 1 commercial station in my local travels that had signage stating "100% dino diesel" (Mobil station located near I55 on 52).
Click to expand...
I'm talking about both homebrew bio-diesel and commercially available. With blends up to 20%, you shouldn't see any problem with the lines you have. If you're using blends over 20%, and especially if you use B99 or B100 your lines will age prematurely. They will get soft and tacky and eventually you'll have a pretty bad leak. Also the hose material will leech into the fuel.
 
gregowski

gregowski

Member
Thanks for the tip, Al - I had just posted an article on my blog a while back about running Sprinters on biodiesel, and I've quoted you and some other reader comments in a new post today.

danski0224, did you know about http://www.nearbio.com? Gives you the location of the nearest biodiesel stations throughout North America.
 
Colorado_Al

Colorado_Al

Well-known member
gregowski said:
Thanks for the tip, Al - I had just posted an article on my blog a while back about running Sprinters on biodiesel, and I've quoted you and some other reader comments in a new post today.

danski0224, did you know about http://www.nearbio.com? Gives you the location of the nearest biodiesel stations throughout North America.
Click to expand...
Cool. Where's your blog?
FYI - You might want to do some reading here too regarding polymerization of bio-diesel:
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/npbf/pdfs/39096.pdf
http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/article-print.jsp?article_id=1443
 
jdcaples

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
I've been running between B3 (3%) and B5 (5%) soy-based, refined bio-diesel from Propel Bio-fuels, for the better part of three years w/o visible or discernible degradation of the flexible fuel lines on my NCV3.

I don't want to come across as contentious or obnoxious, but I would really appreciate the citation of a study, or at least some pictures, to provide some evidence in support of the assertions that my fuel lines have been compromised.

-Jon
 
Colorado_Al

Colorado_Al

Well-known member
jdcaples said:
I've been running between B3 (3%) and B5 (5%) soy-based, refined bio-diesel from Propel Bio-fuels, for the better part of three years w/o visible or discernible degradation of the flexible fuel lines on my NCV3.

I don't want to come across as contentious or obnoxious, but I would really appreciate the citation of a study, or at least some pictures, to provide some evidence in support of the assertions that my fuel lines have been compromised.

-Jon
Click to expand...
As I stated above, you will not see these hose problems with bio-diesel in such low concentrations. The problem occurs at high concentrations of bio-diesel typically above B20(especially with B99 & B100 use). Most manufacturers have tested their vehicles and have a maximum of B5 as a supported fuel, some state up to B20. The reason being that the standard hoses most manufacturers use is still SAE J30R7 Nitrile hose. Vehicles of earlier vintage used natural rubber hose which deteriorates rapidly with bio-diesel use. Nitrile is less problematic than natural rubber, but at high concentrations of bio-diesel they will still break down. The recommended hose for high percentage bio-diesel use is one that is lined with a fluoroelastomer lining like Viton or Teflon which carries the rating of SAE J30R9.

In controlled tests Nitrile "Hardness was reduced approximately 20 percent; swell increased approximately 17 to 18 percent"
While Viton & Teflon (fluoroelastomers) "Relatively no changes in hardness or swell"

Anyhow, you asked for sources, see here:
http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Materials_Compatibility.pdf
 
Colorado_Al

Colorado_Al

Well-known member
mackconsult said:
Al,

What about WVO, I didn't replace all of my hoses when I installed my system.
Click to expand...
WVO is less of a problem for Nitrile hose. You may see some swelling as the hose is not impermeable to the oil, and in fact your hoses may even sweat oil but they generally will not break down because of it. The transesterification process changes the nature of the VO by pulling out a sugar molecule and replacing it with an alcohol. It is this process that turns B100 into a lower viscosity liquid than straight vegetable oil and also makes it a great solvent and also eats rubber. The permeable Nitrile hose will swell with B100 wich will cause the hose to breakdown.
I wouldn't worry about your lines with WVO use, but if they swell a lot, they might not seal well at your fittings and they may become oily to the touch. If that concerns you, you can always use SAE J30R9 as a replacement, but I don't think it will be much of a problem.
 
Last edited:
jdcaples

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
This is from the link provided:

B100 may degrade some hoses, gaskets, seals elastomers, glues and plastics with prolonged exposure. Natural or nitrile rubber compounds, polypropylene, polyvinyl, and Tygon materials are particularly vulnerable. More testing is being done to extend this list of vulnerable materials. Most elastomers used after 1993 are compatible with B100 (Viton/Teflon). Before handling or using neat biodiesel (B100) contact the equipment vendor to determine compatibility with fatty acid methyl esters.



Can someone confirm that the flexible, black, rubber-looking fuel lines on a modern Sprinter are made of elastomers unimproved since 1993?

Upgrading parts is a personal decision. John Bendit has been servicing fleets of Sprinters in Oregon, some of which have run extremely high concentrations of biodiesel (the refined fuel, not vegetable oil).

While I didn't ask him specifically if he'd seen fuel line degradation in T1Ns or NCV3s from high concentrations of biodiesel, I find it hard to imagine he'd gloss over that point.

Having said that, 3/8" ID and a working pressure of 180 psi (SAE J30R9) seems like the right spec for an OM642-equipped engine. The hose you're talking about is slightly larger in ID than the factory hose, so there's no chance of starving the fuel system.

3/8" line is capable of delivering the max amount of fuel my OM642 can consume (it tops out around 30 liters per hour under extreme conditions and only for a few seconds).

Your selection of replacement hose looks great.

-Jon
 
Last edited:
Colorado_Al

Colorado_Al

Well-known member
jdcaples said:
This is from the link provided:

B100 may degrade some hoses, gaskets, seals elastomers, glues and plastics with prolonged exposure. Natural or nitrile rubber compounds, polypropylene, polyvinyl, and Tygon materials are particularly vulnerable. More testing is being done to extend this list of vulnerable materials. Most elastomers used after 1993 are compatible with B100 (Viton/Teflon). Before handling or using neat biodiesel (B100) contact the equipment vendor to determine compatibility with fatty acid methyl esters.



Can someone confirm that the flexible, black, rubber-looking fuel lines on a modern Sprinter are made of elastomers unimproved since 1993?

Upgrading parts is a personal decision. John Bendit has been servicing fleets of Sprinters in Oregon, some of which have run extremely high concentrations of biodiesel (the refined fuel, not vegetable oil).

While I didn't ask him specifically if he'd seen fuel line degradation in T1Ns or NCV3s from high concentrations of biodiesel, I find it hard to imagine he'd gloss over that point.

Having said that, 3/8" ID and a working pressure of 180 psi (SAE J30R9) seems like the right spec for an OM642-equipped engine. The hose you're talking about is slightly larger in ID than the factory hose, so there's no chance of starving the fuel system.

3/8" line is capable of delivering the max amount of fuel my OM642 can consume (it tops out around 30 liters per hour under extreme conditions and only for a few seconds).

Your selection of replacement hose looks great.

-Jon
Click to expand...
Certainly if you are replacing lines, you want to use SAE J30R9 like this. I think you're right that the stock line is 5/16", slightly smaller than the 3/8" line I have. You're also right that post 1993 manufacturers have switched to hose compatible with E10 and B5 or B20, but many use hose that still will not withstand B100 for prolonged periods. I am very interested to hear from John Bendit regarding his experience with B100 users and their results.
 
mendonsy

mendonsy

Member
It seems like the risk would more likely be some of the black goo from the degraded hoses getting into the injectors than an actual hose failure.:2cents:
 
jdcaples

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
Colorado_Al said:
Certainly if you are replacing lines, you want to use SAE J30R9 like this. I think you're right that the stock line is 5/16", slightly smaller than the 3/8" line I have. You're also right that post 1993 manufacturers have switched to hose compatible with E10 and B5 or B20, but many use hose that still will not withstand B100 for prolonged periods. I am very interested to hear from John Bendit regarding his experience with B100 users and their results.
Click to expand...
Stock line: 9mm ID. 3/8ths of an inch is 9.525 mm.

Hearing from John Bendit: email him.

He's a professional, running his business: www.SprinterStore.com and his work shop/vehicle service business, UpScale Automotive in Tualatin, Oregon. While John certainly qualifies as a Sprinter expert, he doesn't have time to read every thread on Sprinter-Source.

-Jon
 
P

princebear

New member
Degree of successful use of Biodiesel in Sprinters?

Hello,
I am new to Sprinters and am doing my homework before buying a used T1N.
A top priority for me is to be able to use biodiesel. I have been using B-95 to B-99 in my 98 Dodge Cummins, and my 96 VW Passat TDI, with excellent results, and only a minor (maybe 5%) loss in power and MPG.
My neighbor tried it in his 2005 T1N and did not like the results, blaming the high pressure fuel system in his Sprinter.
Can you folks share you real world experience with me regarding the above?
Of course, I would change the fuel lines, filter, etc - And, given that all the proper biodiesel prep is done, what sort of performance and other things have you learned, using biodiesel in you Sprinters?
For one, I have heard from some that the 5 cylinder engine is better with BD than the V6.

Thanks,
William
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top Bottom