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mgjessop
06-08-2007, 05:48 AM
I was wondering who sells the Best Diesel? I know they are all not the same... I know that ARCO/BP is the worst crap out there... I get at lease 10% or worse mpg with there crap... Shell and Cheveron seem to make my sprinter purr... Can anybody tell me what makes them different? Thank's for the help...

pgr
06-08-2007, 09:09 AM
I was wondering who sells the Best Diesel? I know they are all not the same... I know that ARCO/BP is the worst crap out there... I get at lease 10% or worse mpg with there crap... Shell and Cheveron seem to make my sprinter purr... Can anybody tell me what makes them different? Thank's for the help...

Personally, I have never noticed a difference between any of them but I do usually fill up at the local Irving station ($2.819) and mine purrs like a kitten, also!

pgr

BaywoodBill
06-08-2007, 04:02 PM
Can't say I've noticed a difference. As the price varies around here I go where it's lowest. While traveling I pretty much catch it where I can, preferably at the lowest prices. Truck stops are usually good for low prices.

kendall69
06-08-2007, 04:07 PM
I also have noticed a HUGE diffeence between brands.
I went on a cross country marathon run Ca. - Missourie, and back non stop, except for fuel, meals, and small naps.

There were times it felt like a differnt vehicle - at times I had mare power than I needed, and other times I felt like I lost a few cylinders.

I don't remember the brands, just that even between tanks there was a huge difference.

BaywoodBill
06-08-2007, 04:08 PM
I also have noticed a HUGE diffeence between brands.
I went on a cross country marathon run Ca. - Missourie, and back non stop, except for fuel, meals, and small naps.

There were times it felt like a differnt vehicle - at times I had mare power than I needed, and other times I felt like I lost a few cylinders.

I don't remember the brands, just that even between tanks there was a huge difference.

I will attempt to be more attentive as I travel.

topless
06-08-2007, 04:35 PM
My guess is if you notice a difference in fuel performance traveling like that, you may have gotten a mix of #1 and #2 when you filled up. #1 makes a lot less power than #2 and it hurts fuel economy too. Obviously the #1 is sold where it gets cold enough for #2 to gel. So, when crossing the mountains, those stations would sell #1 for more months of the year than in lower elevations.

hkpierce
06-08-2007, 05:07 PM
The market is far more complex than brands. Many brands don't have refineries anywhere near their retail distribution points, and brands purchase or exchange their product from others, including the big independent refiners like Valero. All refiners must meet minimum standards. But the refinery source will vary retail location by retail location. Further, most wholesale shipping of diesel is through product pipelines. Product pipelines are common carriers. This means that if a shipper of diesel is not the only shipper, its product is mixxed with all other shippers of diesel in a single batch. The pipeline deems all product that meets the stated product standard as fungible - no distinction between molecules.

This is not to say that there are not differences in diesel between geographic locations because of factors such as refinery source, wholesale pipeline/tank transmix, and post-delivery additives (for example - the antigel - and its timing as a function of geographic/climatic location)(the other example are centane additives). And this is not to say that there may not be differences station-to-station from issues such as contamination and inventory cycle. And this is not to say that the quality of different wholesale batches delivered to any particular market area may not vary slightly. But any claims that one brand of diesel is better than another at the same point in time at the same wholesale transportation geographic market implies a given brand is performing some post wholesale delivery/pre-point of retail additive modification [like midnight addition of kerosene to the diesel tank]. That activity would be more likely related to the station's management's business ethics.

What does this mean? Comparison of perceived diesel quality across wide geographic areas are most likely meaningless as the refining sources, batching, transmix and additives will all be different. Comparision of diesel quality even in major markets like the New York metropolitan area are likely meaningless because of their multiple sources of diesel. Comparison of diesel quality in transition additive periods (winter>summer, summer>winter) are likely meaningless, as mixxing of batches and station cycle times will vary. Comparison of perceived diesel quality in the same geographic market cross wholesale delivery batches of diesel may be meaningless as the source and size of the batch may be different.

I have seen variations in posted centane levels. But not consistently by brand.

mgjessop
06-08-2007, 06:36 PM
Wow thank you for all the info... I guess a better question would be who has the highest centane rating? :idunno:

jdcaples
06-08-2007, 09:46 PM
Wow thank you for all the info... I guess a better question would be who has the highest centane rating? :idunno:

Around my corner of the country, all the stations get their diesel fuel from a few heating oil vendors. Those businesses get fuel wholesale from whomever gives up the best price.

I've spoken to a couple of station owners. According to local retail sources, it's a Roulette game. Petroleum Jobbers (the fuel-delivering truck owners) own the task of putting in the additive; that special something that provides brand name differentiation. The guy that puts candy next to the cash register does not play with fuel tank contents.

I was able to get some confirmation on these anecdotal data points while I delivered some unrelated engineering for Shell, Chevron and ConocoPhillips.

-Jon

michigandon
06-09-2007, 07:29 AM
ALWAYS buy your fuel from someplace where theres a high rate of turnover and the product doesn't sit around long enough to get stale or watery (ie, truck stops or a rural store that sees lots of farmers and contractors coming in throughout the day).

Pilot and Flying J are two of my personal faves.

BaywoodBill
06-09-2007, 04:18 PM
ALWAYS buy your fuel from someplace where theres a high rate of turnover and the product doesn't sit around long enough to get stale or watery (ie, truck stops or a rural store that sees lots of farmers and contractors coming in throughout the day).

Pilot and Flying J are two of my personal faves.

That I understand and observe as frequently as possible. Locally I figure the place with the lowest price sells the most.:rad:

vkr
06-10-2007, 02:38 AM
I drove from GA to PA. Very similar driving style throughout the trip (80 mph on the highway) My first tank of diesel came from a very cheap gas station and I got 18 mpg. The second tank came from a truck stop place which resulted in 23 mpg.

Altered Sprinter
06-10-2007, 07:28 AM
I guess were lucky in our home state where we have quality refineries, small by US standards but nerveless they have a perfect record in Tasmania
BP fuel is rated 10/ppm well ahead of the national 2009 mandates, it was BP decision to advance the 10/ppm fuels because of the new Euro 4 and 5 fuel emission standards, along with manufactures changing the EGR fuel sytems ,which are designed for ULSD fuels.
Caltex and Mobil are still on the older ULSD rated fuels, as you are !'in many areas of the United States'. We at least do not have rely on pipelines for transmix, where so many problems of fuel quality varies, from state to state.
Shell Australia also runs limited 10/ppm in high volume states Not country areas,
All fuel is delivered by tractor Tankers, direct to the service stations.from the refineries with added Lubricants to compensate for lubricity in the fuels.
The first warning signs are starting to show with old fuel being used on the new Sprinters the DPF does not handle high sulpher content fuels, it does burn it out during its recycling programs, but even with the massive standard particulate exhaust behind, they are tending blow out large particles of solid soot contamination, it tends to get caught in the loop of the rear tail pipe, where it literally is burning through the exhaust pipe the heat must be massive to do this damage so soon under 500 miles, so watch your ULSD fuels, on your new generation sprinters.07 0nwards.
Two photographs show the change in less than 500 miles! 'with using the wrong fuel.
"Dont be a Wally, and buy cheap Diesel."
Both are current model Mercedes Sprinters! Exhaust pipes don't normally rust, even my older sprinter is in perfect condition.

Richard
2096

2097

2098

2099

2100

nocky
06-10-2007, 12:58 PM
Richard how come I never see your photos all I get is this?:thinking:

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_____________________
I get My Rocks off! In a Mercedes Sprinter

stp57
06-10-2007, 02:10 PM
I get my deisel from the same Texaco truck stop. They only sell LSD, but I can't figure out why with all of the new trucks that must come in there. They sell 10 cents a gallon under the competetion ($2.65) & I get another 10 cents off by using my Texaco card. I use less additive with the lsd v.s the ulsd & it seems to run well in my 2006.
Steve

Altered Sprinter
06-10-2007, 11:37 PM
Nocky right click the picture numbers they are linked to open in a seperate window? depends on what system you are running, they show the pictures for me but sometimes a few come through as a link, the server for sprinter .com has been very slow at night AEST and it's only with sprinter.com :thinking:
steve
LSD is OK, but sonner or latter you will have an issue with this fuel blocking your igntion system' resulting in a rougher running engine ,more vibrations etc, but it depends on what your hauling I guess best tip look at the rear tip of the exhaust if its clean with no heavy sharp abrasive soot, iceing around it fells like graphite, not oily! then 'Your' safe.
Richard

PLUMMER
06-11-2007, 06:18 PM
Not a sprinter , but a GM 6.5 TD currently. And in Michigan here, best performance, starting and milage is from "MOST" Marathon stations, Flying J and Shell . #1 and #2 diesels have a 2 mpg difference for me currently. I always use a UCL to help cetane and cleanliness for fuel system. Especially with the junk stanadyne pump and injectors GM uses on the old 6.5. This ULSD is killing them fast. I have seen a 4 mpg jump when going from a discount brand like Valero then using something good like those mentined above. We unfortunaely dont get the good BP product. And we are still going thru the woes of inconsistent sulfur levels at some stations. Here in Michigan near Melvindale we have a huge refinery, but the age and poor worker attitudes , even besides the standards dont help our situation at all.

I sure would like to make my new sprinter a MPG project vehicle, I take pride in my notes and info gathering to maximize my vehicles efficiency.

Altered Sprinter
06-11-2007, 11:13 PM
The only solution I can offer to compensate for fuel discrepancies is to add an improved synthetic Diesel additive to fuel it will work if you use a high quality product like red line Rl-2 or 3
Richard

georgetg
06-11-2007, 11:59 PM
Flying J (http://www.flyingj.com/index.html)....

by far the best price/quality.

...and it's made in town (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/chronicle/archive/2005/01/11/BUGQ9AO59V1.DTL&o=0&type=business).
http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2005/01/11/bu_oilrefineriesca.jpg

...no multinational/foreign oil.

Cheers
George

Joes05VC
06-15-2007, 04:56 PM
Flying J seems the most consistantly good diesel when on the road, away from home. I now usually plan fuel stops based on where are the Flying J stations. At home I consistently use a Union 76 station for diesel, and I think they are now owned buy Connoco/Phillips which is the usual Flying J supplier.