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steve08
07-16-2010, 02:21 AM
The Green Car Company in Bellevue Washington claims to offer modifications to the V6 sprinter to allow it to run on biodiesel... anyone know anything about this, or for that matter about anyone able to do this?

jdcaples
07-16-2010, 04:17 AM
The Green Car Company in Bellevue Washington claims to offer modifications to the V6 sprinter to allow it to run on biodiesel... anyone know anything about this, or for that matter about anyone able to do this?

I didn't see any modification products on http://www.thegreencarco.net/en_us/

Are you talking about the refined fuel called "biodiesel" or are you talking about waste vegetable oil (WVO) raw vegetable oil (RVO) or straight vegetable oil (SVO)?

-Jon

steve08
07-17-2010, 02:25 AM
I am talking about refined biodiesel, not SVO... On the 2008 it clearly states not to use biodiesel. And, correct, they don't have any parts on their website, just this statement: "And the Sprinter is powered by a strong 3.0 liter V6 common rail direct injection (CRD) Turbodiesel engine. The Sprinter can be fueled with high blends of biodiesel with minor modifications."

piper1
07-18-2010, 03:14 PM
I have run B30 in my Sprinter...and my mileage was terrible. Anything beyond B10 seems to hit the mileage. The emission system we have on the NAFTA NCV3's has an oxygen sensor in the exhaust stream, looking for a certain amount of oxygen. Biodiesel is a very oxygenated fuel (pure B100 is 11% oxygen by weight). Running higher concentrations of bio I believe in my opinion, alters the oxygen content in the exhaust enough that the ECM sees it and tries to "correct it" (adding more fuel, injection timing, I dunno). I have also run into this with certain additives that are designed to "improve" combustion and my mileage goes down instead of up. When you then describe the emission system to the additive engineers and they see that it monitors oxygen in the exhaust, they then tell you their additive is useless as far as getting any tangible combustion benefits as the ECM will fight it.

As far as it "coking or clogging", biodiesel is, as pointed out, an excellent solvent and it dislodges deposits throughout the fuel system. I think a lot of people's problems with bio happen when they use it...previous gunk gets dislodged and sent through the system...causes some sort of mayhem...and the bio gets the blame when it really isn't the root cause. I have run pure B100 in my other trucks, one older and one with a new CRD diesel and it ran fine with no ill effects for thousands of miles. I did keep a couple of spare fuel filters with me just in case, but never used them. Coking implies incomplete combustion of heavy solids, something I would think that would be much more associated with SVO and WVO setups done poorly. Unfortunately, biodiesel as a term tends to get used to describe these non refined products and therefore inherits any ugliness they may cause.

I like Jon's approach best, if you can get good quality bio, run it in lower concentrations to achieve the lubricity benefits it brings to ULSD, but I do believe the higher concentrations are not worth it unless it is significantly cheaper than regular ULSD.

piper1
07-18-2010, 03:16 PM
How did the post I just made get bumped back 8 hours?

punter
07-18-2010, 08:31 PM
I am talking about refined biodiesel, not SVO... On the 2008 it clearly states not to use biodiesel. And, correct, they don't have any parts on their website, just this statement: "And the Sprinter is powered by a strong 3.0 liter V6 common rail direct injection (CRD) Turbodiesel engine. The Sprinter can be fueled with high blends of biodiesel with minor modifications."


It would be nice to run pure biodiesel. The emissions have to be healthier.


I think you can run b20 without modifications, but nobody here seems to have remarked upon that.

.

jdcaples
07-18-2010, 08:49 PM
I've run as high as B20 for brief periods of time (less than 50 miles), but I usually stick to the B5 guideline available on www.techauthority.com (Chrysler's service information for non-dealership persons), and on www.SprinterTekInfo.com (MB's Sprinter Service information).

There's an unsettled debate about biodiesel, post-injection activities for DPF regeneration cycles. The issue is "injector coking," but no one's photographed an injector contaminated by soy- based, or any other biodiesel.

-Jon

punter
07-18-2010, 09:32 PM
I've run as high as B20 for brief periods of time (less than 50 miles), but I usually stick to the B5 guideline available on www.techauthority.com (Chrysler's service information for non-dealership persons), and on www.SprinterTekInfo.com (MB's Sprinter Service information).

There's an unsettled debate about biodiesel, post-injection activities for DPF regeneration cycles. The issue is "injector coking," but no one's photographed an injector contaminated by soy- based, or any other biodiesel.

-Jon

What people assert on the issue seems conflicting.

On the one hand, biodiesel, might clog the injectors with deposits.

On the other hand, biodiesel is such a good solvent, that all the existing fuel line deposits might break free and clog something up!

Note that I am not talking about vegetable oil but biodiesel sold commercially.

Has doctor A ever weighed in on the subject?

.

.

Altered Sprinter
07-19-2010, 12:34 AM
Mercedes states B5 2009 onwards B10 tolerable .: Note this is a Mercedes Benz European directive.
It is based on Fuel 10ppm or 8 ppm for Euro 4/5 and euro 6 engines.
European diesel engines do not use SCR or ad-blue on Sprinters, Injection blockage is due to unburnt fuel of which results in a carbon buildup.
There is a trade off with SCR and EGR both have had issues, However all of the 2009 OM 651 engines have been totally redesigned for exclusive use of a stand alone EGR water cooled system.
25033
Where the problems come in with this fuel type is, and it has been heavily discussed with Mercedes and other manufactures with commercial based vehicles over 3500Kg,as to what type of Fuel stock formulation is being used?
As an an example Corn based stock the lowest value, Soy higher medium value, Sugar cane stock has the the highest yield, and close to beetroot stock values
Conversion to bio based fuels are manufactured to a specific Fame value but ! it's voluntary, as to the 1998 Fuel watch-standards of which are global with the exception of NAFTA and Japan.
The areas of agreements are central Europe. UK has both old and new. Asia pacific in populace regions follows thew latest ecv 2011 Euro 6 emission standards of which are backwards comparable as the fuels have modified lubricants added to offset sulfur variants based on type of crude oils and refinery of manufacture's processing.



Richard.