Turbo Resonator Problem

[swolf]

Don't know if this is too late to be of any help, but perhaps someone else might find it useful....I found the following in the Wikipedia entry about Sprinters:

"Dodge Sprinter owners have been discussing a possible flaw in the "Turbo Resonator". Apparently, they are made of plastic and the seal at a seam fails, causing boost pressure to be lost and making the computer detect a catastrophic turbo failure. The engine computer then switches into "Limp Home Mode", limiting the vehicle speed to about 35 mph (56 kph). Because it is a seam leak, it is not visually obvious when the engine is off, yet it still causes the computer to detect a failure during operation. Some claim that DaimlerChrysler knows about this problem, but as of July 2006 there has not been any service bulletin to their dealers on this issue. Currently DaimlerChrysler is encouraging owners who have experienced Limp Home Mode to contact the Customer Service Center with data and particulars which will be passed on to the platform team engineers to facilitate a proper fix."

[Altered Sprinter]

I don't know if its too late either as this is the second time this has come up today
food for thought follow this link
Any one think of modify their ECU? - Page 2 - Sprinter-Forum.com
Dodge Sprinter Flaw in Resonator.jpg
Cheers Richard

[sikwan]

Here's a picture of the new/old resonator that JRiordan posted in another forum.

tres.jpg

What was MB's reasoning behind the bigger size (volume)? Noise?

Thanks,
Seek

[acvr4]

Could there have been a bad batch of these? I wonder what percent of them have gone bad compared to the total ? I imagine there are quite a few of them out there that have been fine.

Just wondering

[jriordan]

Hi Richard and Old Master

Thank you for helping rearrange the location of my posts on the Sprinter Turbo Resonator problems. Despite the fact that I own a technology based company, I do not spend much time on forums and am therefore less than an expert at replying in the correct manner, etc.

In response to your request for an explanation on the problem please allow me to share some info with you. It is my understanding that this problem is found on late 2004, all 2005 and all 2006 Sprinters. 2003 and before did not use turbo resonators at all. I have not the slightest clue why they would have chosen to add this resonator to the system for the small amount of turbo noise it actually muffles.

The Sprinter chassis with its 2.7 liter Mercedes Benz turbo diesel engine is becoming increasingly popular with RVers and commercial users because of its great fuel economy and driver-friendly characteristics. However, the turbo resonator is one flaw in the engine design that has caused the Sprinter chassis to suffer an inordinate amount of breakdowns. If the truth were published, this is a HUGE problem, not a small one. It is especially troubling to RVers who use their vehicles to “get away from it all” only to find that after they did they are now hundreds of miles or hours away from help.

The turbo resonator is a plastic, bonded-together assembly intended to act as a “muffling” device for the intake air delivery system. This plastic assembly, in my opinion as a plastic injection mold designer, is not well suited for a high-heat, vibration and boost-pressure-rich environment. Reportedly on its third revision by the contractor who makes the resonator for Mercedes, some owners we have worked with are still reporting multiple failures, within less than 10,000 miles, each one leaving them stranded. Including failures of the last "new fix" design, released in 2006.

When the turbo resonator fails, usually under acceleration or climbing hills, the engine’s computer senses a lack of sufficient boost when compared with throttle position and assumes that the engine has suffered from a “catastrophic turbo failure.” The computer then puts the engine into “limp home mode” which means the vehicle may not be able to climb hills at all and is limited to about 35 to 45 mph, depending upon the weight of the vehicle. In many cases this results in the need for a tow truck to get back to a dealer who can fix the problem.

Not exactly a desirable feature in emergency medical services vehicles transporting critically ill or injured persons or specialized armored vehicles carrying precious cargo that cannot afford to become vulnerable. One of our clients who owns an ambulance company with a fleet of Sprinter based ambulances experienced turbo resonator failures on fully half of their fleet before converting them all over to our Resonator eliminator.

Recreational vehicles carrying family members trying to get away from it all are finding themselves stuck in out of the way places, miles from anyone who can help them. Winnebago "View” owner Larry Oslund found himself and his family in this situation three times in less than 9,300 miles. Larry told us, “This last time, we were traveling down the Interstate at 70 MPH with an 18 wheeler only 20 feet behind us when the turbo resonator failed and the motorhome did a nose-dive, went into the now familiar, ‘limp home mode’ and slowed to 35 mph instantly almost causing the 18 wheeler to crash into us". "Then", Larry continued, "Dodge told us there were only two five-star Dodge dealers that work on the Sprinter chassis in Mississippi, one in the North part of the State and one in the South. We were forced to drive 118 miles to get to the dealer, still in limp home mode, and then pay for a motel for five days while the Dodge dealer ordered the part and fixed the motorhome. Frankly, I believe Dodge should have to reimburse us for the vacation time lost and the motel costs". "Further", said Oslund, "I think DOT should look into this problem because it is incredibly dangerous. We are lucky to be alive.”

A quick search on google sprinter forums reveals instance after instance of these failures.

Realizing the extent of the problem and the lack of a solution that gained the confidence of owners, Dodge dealer service facility foreman Randell Stowe came to the James F. Riordan Company for a solution that could be offered to owners who wanted a metal part they could put in that would not fail. These sprinter owners, "did not want to see any more plastic parts." Our company, within three days, designed and produced the first prototype part that has now become the industry wide cure for all operators of Dodge Sprinter Vans and commercial vehicle chasses.

Dodge and Daimler Chrysler management and upper management I have spoken with are certainly acutely aware of this problem, even though many Sprinter owners have told us that their Dodge dealers who service the Sprinters have told them, "it is not a problem."

I believe Daimler Chrysler has tried, albeit perhaps half-heartedly, to solve the problem with multiple revisions but they are still using a two-part plastic assembly in a high temperature, high vibration and high pressure operating environment that I believe requires a metal part. As an injection mold designer, I know plastic parts and I know their strengths and weaknesses. I have cut apart each of the different Polycarbonate plastic versions and I still have not seen one that I would trust, especially in emergency vehicles or RV’s. In my opinion the design of the part is inappropriate for the application and pre-destines it to failure. For instance, the "beefy" side of the plastic resonator slips tightly into the output end of the turbo and is bolted firmly to the alternator bracket. That is ok. The problem is, the other end of the plastic assembly is simply bonded onto the beefy part and then slipped inside a long and rather heavy piece of intake rubber hose that is constantly vibrating. So, with constant vibration and heat, it would probably fail anyway in the long term but adding 20 inches or more of turbo boost pressure, in many cases, shortens the life of the plastic assembly dramatically.

The new SRE-06 resonator Eliminator, designed for our local Dodge dealer, is a high quality, high strength Billet aluminum replacement designed to last the life of the vehicle. It comes with clear and simple directions and takes about 15 minutes to install with only a small 1/4 inch wrench ( or socket) and a 5/16 inch wrench (or socket). Truly, anyone who can install a radiator hose will have no trouble quickly replacing this part. According to Dodge representatives with whom we have spoken, the installation of our part should not affect the warranty since it has absolutely no effect on the performance of the vehicle (other than to keep it running). None of our customers have expressed any problems with warranty coverage after installation of the Resonator Eliminator. Actually, the dealers themselves want to see their customers satisfied so they have no incentive to balk at replacement parts that keep customers happy without affecting the longevity or performance of their vehicles.

Presently we have literally hundreds of these parts installed in commercial Sprinter vans and chassis, ambulances, armored vehicles, delivery vehicles and RVS with thousands of trouble-free test miles on the Eliminator. Every customer we have spoken with is happy with the product.

The turbo resonator Eliminator is available at a growing number of Dodge dealers and from our company at www.riordanco.com and costs only $89.95 plus shipping (and tax for CA customers), not much more than a stock plastic part, and it comes with a 100% satisfaction guarantee. The peace of mind of knowing you will get out and get back without being stranded . . Priceless! Please feel free to call me personally for any more info or help. (530) 676-4729 If you have friends who have Sprinters, please help them avoid this problem as well and pass along this post.

The only other question I have had that has not been addressed herein is replacement timing. Some customers have asked, "Can I just buy one and carry it with me until I need it??" Of course the correct answer is, "yes", however the proper answer is, "yes . . . but, depending on your luck, would you rather replace it in the relative convenience of your own garage or driveway, or chance having to replace it lying on the side of busy freeway with traffic whistling by inches away or laying on your back in the mud and the muck?" Trust me, replace it at home BEFORE it goes out.

Thanks everyone, hope this was helpful and hope Richard can find the correct place for it! Best regards, Jim Riordan

[Altered Sprinter]

Hi Jim

Thats one long post and I'm limited to time as I need to go to work soon , so I'll pick up on it to-nite.
In fact you have touched base as to the cause in many sections, interdenominational issues relate to the turbo seal failure so has Andy with the engine link on the 647Fuel Rail alert for type 647 engines - Sprinter-Forum.com
I need a little time on this as I'm not a mechanic , My expertise is standards and the US sprinter has a different set up to European and Australian Sprinters which don't have the problem but did on older 1996 to 2000 models in some areas, but the cause was identified and was not a design fault of the Sprinter to the original spec's
Question Jim do you have a photo of the plastic seal that's failed ? I would love to see it along with the backing plate it attaches to basically I need both photos in micro resolution format.
The DOT can only investigate a complaint in the event of an accident that links to mechanical failure as the contributor to the accident this takes a huge amount of expertise and money to report on the facts, the EPA would then be involved and you then have the next issues as to a third party link or links that may have been responsible towards the failure this would take 5 years in in a US court to instigate, cost millions of dollars and there would be no satisfactory outcome, even if a silk took it on pro-bona he would go broke, it's to contentious.
I'll run this to-nite.
Richard

[BaywoodBill]

jriordan writes about his resonator eliminator very well but has anyone actually been "stuck" because of a resonator failure. From my own experience and from what I've read, the failure puts the engine into the non-turbo mode and you can still make about 60 mph on the level and 45 mph up typical hills.

While I'm still contemplating the purchase of one of the eliminators, I don't like to see such alarmist posting about it.

[chaozz]

hmm maybe time to call and get a group buy going

[sikwan]

Originally Posted by BaywoodBill

While I'm still contemplating the purchase of one of the eliminators, I don't like to see such alarmist posting about it.

He does have a bias towards selling these things.

Maybe he can give us a discount as Chaozz has mentioned.

[Altered Sprinter]

Hi Jim
Again thank you for your time to post the article for your turbo resonator replacement part I would think as you have stated it will prove to be more effective than the OEM part and I wish you the best for future sales, there will be many, The problem has been around from the very beginning of the introduction of the Sprinter to the N/American sector, as I have seen over the years many complaints over this very issue of failing seals on the resonator it's more than common that's for sure, as to how many have been an issue on the Sprinter! I'd assume X=unknown? however I agree it's been a problem for many folk.
The reason I would like to get my hands on a high resolution Photo is to run a spectrum test to see for myself, as to the information I have regarding the failures that M-B have.
to explain this a little further Sprinters in Australia have not been effected to any significant degree that would warrant investigation, since early 2003 prior to that back of 1998 there were issues on both the Sprinter and Vito's, the Vito was non turbo assisted, the Sprinter was both, engines had O ring failures, and a few Sprinters did blow the turbo units not the resistor, however this was fuel related as LSD was in use and the refineries were not up to date as they are today, even though Diesel is imported from Singapore its refined in Australia to met the Euro 4 Emission standards in fact in two states We have the pp/m down to 10/ppm to comply to Euro5 emissions same as bin 8 at your end, in California.
Emergency vehicles are 90% Mercedes Sprinters with no mechanical issues apart from normal maintenance they are optioned up to a H/Duty format with retro fitted dual air-con six speed automatics as to the Mercedes units causing too much vibrations in the engine department from the Harmonic balancers which was causing turbo seal leakages, from the vibrations generated from the cooling condensers in front of the radiator, this was for the year 2003 only. redesigned for Australia.
From the written reports I have seen in reference to the seal failure, the report stated crystalline salt layers of condensed Aromatic hydrocarbon build up of sulfate acids of 15 types of substances of particularization contaminates, ranging from soot to Metallic ash, with differences in the agglomeration of unburnt diesel particles.
Tests on Fuel from Europe and the US showed patterns of burn rates between 1400rpm to 4600rpm to vary as to higher temperature's, with detonation of N0x particle emissions.
The differences between European and US diesels where the Mercedes Engine is designed to run and burn at the higher rate with ULSD and the LSD US diesel showed a an increase of just over 25% to 30% with winter fuels in high and low burn rates of fuels.at the same rpm tests for the Euro fuels!
Secondary tests showed fatty amino acids and oils at the same seal! concluding the wrong fuels being used, the list went on , but that is all that needs to be said, my thoughts were the Board has a attitude problem with each of the two divisions, where one for argument sake is saying the engine mets the specifications we're not paying for a fix that's not the Sprinters fault where we have proved it's a contamination source.
The other side is denying responsibility and nothing gets resolved.
If this was taken to a court, in the event of an accident that could be proved on to the manufacturer, Then the blame game would proceed, DCX management would face serious questions in court, but the respondent would directly place the cause to both refineries and the EPA for not doing their job because of Senates indecision's to rectify fuel problems in the US.
The down side of the older Sprinters is they did not have a computer management system that recognized a high concentration of NOx to order up a higher fuel burn to keep the engine running at peak temperature's.
Even with the 2007 Sprinter it only has the particle trap emission exhaust , however with the 2008 Blutec unit this will be incorporated for the SCR Ammonia sensor,to pick up the temperature to order up the burn, it's now on the Vito's in Europe and the Sprinter is next in line.
Interesting point with the turbo shut down at 70 miles an hour ! there is no further turbo assist as your past the max range of torque for it to be effective I've been caught twice in the last month passing a truck on a country run thinking I had sufficient time to get by, accelerating is way to slow as there is no turbo response, drop back a gear and the rpm indicator goes to red line and the engine momentarily shuts down to almost zero rpm drop back behind the truck and the engine picks up to it's normal rpm but thats on a manual gearbox not auto?
Well the model is now history, lets hope the next one proves to be better.
Richard.