Has anyone honestly really romped on a 4x4?

Kauluwela

Member
If so, what did you learn? I took mine out on a more true to form trail ride today and was kinda disappointed. It's definitely not a trail rig, but I knew that, I guess it's just confirmed. My Tundra was way more refined for that purpose! Pics to come.
 
Comparing a Tundra with lockers to the 4wheel sprinter system without that option here in the states should be obvious. That sprinters for years have had this option in the rest of the world and look at what we get here, is rather limiting. The VW Crafter vans had front and rear lockers available but has anyone ever seen a Crafter here in the states?

Lockers are the key to ultimate traction when needed and being able to crawl, instead of trying to power speed through while bumping all to heck, is crucial to going where no sprinter has gone before without wrecking something and would be advantageous. Some off roads just need to be crawled along with all four wheels pulling together with lockers. Even just a rear locker should be an option. One of these days..........Thanks to all here.
 

Ed463

Active member
Well of course a Tundra is a piece of ****e in a 4x4 context but it could still out perform a 4wd van, especially the the de speced version you have in North America.

A decent 4x4, such as a Mercedes G Wagen will out perform both. Accept what a Sprinter is and it's pretty impressive and it's mostly down to driver competency, lockers and tyres.

As above, if you know what you are doing mechanical diffocks will always better electronics.

The Sprinter has leaf spring rear and independent front suspension, it doesn't take a genius to figure it's limitations. Electronics can only do so much.
 
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Bikeit7

New member
I've definitely pushed my van a bit (2016 144" with after market duratracs). The 4wd is definitely disappointing but I knew it wouldn't compete with my previous stock tacoma going into this. Here's what I've found:

I live in western Colorado and so far have taken the van over Cinnamon pass (no problem), 12-15" fresh snow over road surface (did well enough), and through some spring runoff creeks, mud around Crested Butte.

Dropped into one creek that ended up being ~3 feet deep and flowing pretty fast. The channel was maybe 20' wide but had to cross another 50' of 1-2' deep water with mostly rocky bottom. The van performed well enough to cross that but got a little stuck on the far side. the far side was 6" deep, flat, sandy bottom (tail pipe clear, not high centered). This is where the electronic braking/computer crap had me wishing I was in the tacoma. I bogged down a bit, wasn't sunk or stuck necessarily but I could floor it and bascically nothing would happen (minimal increase in RPMs, no power to wheels at all). In the past when this happens (loose terrain) I'd just stay on the gas and let the braking/computer do its thing. In my tacoma this would have landed me stuck on the frame, but that's not how the van works. I then switched into 4 low, tried ASR on/off; no avail. After 5 minutes of screwing around, I put van in neurtral, raised RPMS up and dropped it into drive. This woke something up and wheels started spinning and was easily able to rock myself out. I'm not sure how to explain what happened here.

Later that weekend I went to cross a mud hole in the road; 2 wheels (passenger side) in 6" deep mud and 2 wheels (driver side) on decent ground. I was level and van quickly became stuck. Not high centered. It didn't throttle down this time but no amount of flooring it, gearing down, ASR on/off; all made no difference. The mud wheels just kept spinning, no help from brakes transferring power to traction side here. I tried jacking up the front passenger corner and backing out, no avail. Van came out with easy tug from rear.

Needless to say I'm not real psyched on its performance, but I didn't expect too much and I needed to know where the limitations would be. This experience has had me looking into lockers and/or a winch. The limited power to the front wheels is noticeable and there is basically no flex. It's been an adjustment but still love my van.
 

Farfrumwork

Active member
Thanks Bikeit!

Have you tried braking while gassing (old trick to 'help' lsd equipped vehicles) or was it just not able as more throttle = no power to the wheels?

The off-road capability is of interest to me as I research the 4x4 sprinters as a replacement for my Subaru powered syncro (with rear locker). I know that the rear locker can be necessary even in pretty tame situations with vehicles of little articulation and a decent amount of weight. I've used my rear locker plenty on trails here in CO and surrounding areas.

I don't know of a rear locker conversion for the sprinter. Does one exist? That would put me over the edge and I'd start the build process ASAP.

Cinnamon pass is fairly tame, save a couple steep rocky sections, and I've done it in the syncro (using the locker on 1 obstacle). But it's good to hear that a 4x4 sprinter made it without issue!

3Feet deep is a pretty good water crossing! I would not attempt that in the syncro

I would certainly have sand ladders mounted to be readily available if I had (or when I do have) a 4x4 sprinter. But a R locker would be a preferred 1st step.:thumbup:

-Chad (Boulder area)
 

sailquik

Well-known member
Farfrumwork,
Ummm....don't think a rear locking differential will play very nice with the ABS/ESP/Crosswind Assist systems that depend on
individual wheel braking.
In the ROTW (Rest Of The World) with the more conventional 4x4 Sprinter systems with 3 lockers (front/rear/transfer case) you would be
fine but that is not the case with the 4 ETS system that is approved and being sold in the USA/CAN.
Roger
 

Bikeit7

New member
Farfrumwork,

I did not try pushing the brake and gassing at the same time but I think that's a good idea and worth trying. I did try the parking brake and gassing which had no significant effect.

In comparison to other awd type (not true 4x) vehicles I don't have a lot of experience. However, I did cross brush creek (below teocalli in CB) when it was almost waist deep and flowing pretty strong a few weeks ago. A Chevy Equinox awd got stuck immediately trying to follow and I had to pull it out.

As far as lockers go, I did a cursory search and didn't find much. I agree that a locker probably wouldn't play nice with the traction system but for short duration probably not a big deal. I had a locker on my old truck and only had to turn it on a few times. Who wants to drive around with a locker engaged anyway; best use is for getting unstuck. A manual or air controlled locker would be best. Curious if anyone knows of one that may work here.
 

Farfrumwork

Active member
yeah, a locker might not play well with the system as-stock (but it could be fine in very short durations at low speed - where a locker is used), but I was thinking that there could be a conversion out there that integrated with the stock system to disable the individual wheel inputs when the locker is activated to allow a locker to work as intended.

There are all kinds of independent 'hacks' to factory ECU's and I don't see why this couldn't be done... Not that it has (or that I have the skills to do so). It sounds like just disabling the traction control system may be advantages too, so you aren't at the mercy of the ECU (when I say throttle, I mean throttle! haha)

But I don't see how a rear locker would necessarily cause the factory 'traction' system to go limp as the sensors would see the rear wheels rotating in unison as if they were moving along happily on a traction-full road.

The harm may come more from the case where the system attempts to apply brakes to one of the rear wheels when they ARE locked, which would load the differential more.

I can dream, right? (I'd just really like a locked diff sprinter!)
 

Nordicjump

New member
Got my van off road outside Steamboat this weekend at times it surprised me and went pretty good considering what it is. It doesn't have much articulation so it tripods a lot most of the time one wheel off the ground didn't effect it much, it would still go. That was the part that surprised me.

Dropped into a couple mud holes 6 to 8 inches deep seemed to crawl through and I was definitely spinning the tires to keep it moving. I did try feathering the brake some when it was spinning a couple of wheels it was hard to tell if it helped.

The part that wasn't so good. A couple of different times the computer just seemed to kill it's power and it didn't want to go, even if I gave it lot of gas. Often I just backed up and went with a little more momentum. Not my favorite method but it did work. I really couldn't pin point what was happening that the power got killed and it won't go.

Not even close to the ability of my jeep with lockers or any of the trucks I've had with open axles, but I'm happy with it's ability to get me into some more remote campsites than the two wheel drive Sprinter. I'm also sure it's going to do really good in the snow for those winter activities.
 

KentuckyWR

Member
Took the 4x4 on a forest service road today in Central Idaho. It was a dry dirt surface with some rocky areas here and there. The road had been graded recently and there were a dozen or more tall water bars. There were also three sections where the grade was fairly steep. I'd taken my F-150s up this road a few times and never needed to put it in 4x4 so I started out with the van in 2WD.

In the end, I had no issues at all and never needed to engage 4x4. As a matter of fact, it only lost traction twice when it was rocky but it was very short lived. I dropped it into 2nd gear at the bottom of the road and it climbed up the grade with ease. The BFGs are simply awesome and the clearance of the van handled the water bars with ample room.

It wasn't truly a "romp" but I figured 4x4 would be necessary in the van but never felt the need to engage it. I did have a decent load (one dirt bike and all associated gear and tools) and suspect that was an advantage in terms of traction. Those crappy Continentals would not have performed well on that terrain.

We turned the rig around at one of my favorite remote trailheads and were rewarded with a great view!



See you on the trail!
 
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The biggest thing is how crappy and stiff the stock suspension is. On medium washboard roads the car felt like it had no suspension. That has been my biggest disappointment so far. Hope its something the aftermarket can fix.
 

sandrak

Member
Later that weekend I went to cross a mud hole in the road; 2 wheels (passenger side) in 6" deep mud and 2 wheels (driver side) on decent ground. I was level and van quickly became stuck. Not high centered. It didn't throttle down this time but no amount of flooring it, gearing down, ASR on/off; all made no difference. The mud wheels just kept spinning, no help from brakes transferring power to traction side here. I tried jacking up the front passenger corner and backing out, no avail. Van came out with easy tug from rear.
You know, I had this same problem in my 2wd Sprinter of getting repeatedly stuck in 6" or less of mud that would be on just one side of the van. So much so that I thought I needed a new 4x4 to solve it. But when I replaced my generic mud & snow tires with the BF Goodrich KO2's, everything changed radically. I've never been stuck since, even though I drive through the exact same muddy places as before.

Just a thought that maybe the tires are the culprit.
 

bobmac

Member
Farfrumwork,
.....
As far as lockers go, I did a cursory search and didn't find much. I agree that a locker probably wouldn't play nice with the traction system but for short duration probably not a big deal. I had a locker on my old truck and only had to turn it on a few times. Who wants to drive around with a locker engaged anyway; best use is for getting unstuck. A manual or air controlled locker would be best. Curious if anyone knows of one that may work here.
I realize this is a stale topic, but I don't see why a rear diff lock would bother a brake assisted 4WD Sprinter. The rear half axles would be locked together and would appear to the '4WD' logic like normal road driving - no speed diff between left and right wheels.

Might be worth looking into a custom made pneumatic lock.
Bob M, NOT 4WD Sprinters (yet). 2WD long and talls in Australia/US
 

Jvimpty

Member
I realize this is a stale topic, but I don't see why a rear diff lock would bother a brake assisted 4WD Sprinter. The rear half axles would be locked together and would appear to the '4WD' logic like normal road driving - no speed diff between left and right wheels.

Might be worth looking into a custom made pneumatic lock.
Swapping a rear axle assembly is not a difficult thing, with some luck there may be some viable replacement/swap options from junkers or aftermarket off road avenues.

You could see what vehicles that have a mechanical (or other locking option) have the same or similar track width. Picking one with good internals, proper ratio, etc would be the trick. Perhaps searching to see what is similar axle load, track, and shares the wheel's bolt pattern in the 4WD world would be a good start; if you're lucky they'll have the same rear end ratio... or one as an option that is the same. If track is narrower, spacing the wheel is not too difficult.

for the ETS crap to work, you'd need tone rings with the same tooth count, and perhaps an adapter/connector to mate the merc harness to the axle donor vehicle' sensor.

Jeremy
 

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