very hard start and p0088, now no start and p0087

[slowgsr]

its an 05 sprinter. Was running biodiesel with nothing other then just pouring it in, maybe 5-8k, ran in both vans 05/06

Around the same time both vans came up with a P0088 and were running in limp mode, would only do about 110km/h. The 05 ran started/ran fine otherwise, I started putting normal diesel in it again. The 05 however ran fine but had an extremely hard time starting.

We got it home, p0088 came up, changed the fuel filter, primed it etc. It is very very hard to start, but once started, runs fine. Now we have a p0087, and its very very hard to start, but with some quick start it starts and runs fine once started.

p0088 - fuel pressure rail too high
p0087 - fuel pressure too low

We used a cheap aftermarket fuel filter for the replacement in the 05, is it possible that the filter is just plain junk and we should buy one from the dealer?

Thanks.

[slowgsr]

Any help?

Took it to the dealer and they are trying to say it needs x5 new injectors and going to cost $5000.

[Type2Teach]

Originally Posted by slowgsr

Any help?

Took it to the dealer and they are trying to say it needs x5 new injectors and going to cost $5000.

Test the injectors yourself. Check out my thread entitled "another dead van thread" for the how-to. It's super easy and will cost you less than 5$. Then you will see if they are malfunctioning or not. Call up waynerodd and get some injectors from him and rent the injector removal tool. AquaPuttana (Vic) has a great write up on how to remove the injectors.
If you DIY, it should cost you less than $1500.
There's also a fuel pressure sensor on the very back of the fuel rail. It's impossible to see, but you can feel it back there with your hand. You could try replacing that.
Also, do you have access to a DAD? Check out the DAD map at the bottom of my signature to see if anyone with a DAD is near you. The DAD is a Sprinter specific scantool that can also tell you if you have bad injectors and if anything else is wrong, too.
There's also a scantool access thread on the forum where more people have signed up. Check that out.
Good luck and keep us posted.
One more thing- see if you can't get an exact printout of what the dealership proposes to do to your van. It may be more than just the injectors. That would be helpful for the forum and you to diagnose what is wrong, and also helpful when ordering new parts.

[slowgsr]

so I went to the dealer, paid $360 for 3hrs of diagnosis.

Heres what the report says.

Will not start - will start with intake clean sprayed in intake - tech inspected scanned and tested - fault for low rail press monitor pressure during cranking - will not go - over 1500 psi - not enough to start - checked for fuel pressure - tested for leaks found 3 out of 5 injectors return leakage far too high 25-30ml (spec is below 2.5ml) Possibly will required all 5 injectors - recommend replacing 3 and retest- also found #2 glow plug and module shorted - Declined repairs and towed out.

3 fuel injectors $2800 plus taxes.

So, I've decided to do the injector test myself (thanks I found it in your thread). The van was running fine, starting fine, then just out of no where decided it wanted to be very very hard to start, and now it won't start period.

Could a bad batch of bio-diesel damage the injectors?

I've never trusted dealerships, but I thought it may need to be scanned with something other then my basic scanner and just a single sensor replaced. I wonder if all 3 are actually bad or if they are just trying to make an extra few bucks.

They recommend changing all 5, but heck.. These things aren't exactly cheap!

Im don't see a glow plug effecting starting, but I do see how bad injectors can cause a no start. My sprinter is one year older, it has 400k and no problems ever, this one only has 200k. Mine won't start when hot, but its had a CEL for a cam sensor since the problem started.

[Aqua Puttana]

Originally Posted by slowgsr

...

Could a bad batch of bio-diesel damage the injectors?

...

Possibly. Or the high pressure pump? I'm getting closer and closer to wondering about bio-diesel and WVO use in a Sprinter even when you try to do it right. We know MB doesn't recommend it. It sure seems that some of the "It was running just fine and then..." comments/threads here are from people who run bio-diesel or WVO. (or ran it at some time, it may take a while to show problems?)



vic

[WAYNERODD]

Originally Posted by slowgsr

Any help?

Took it to the dealer and they are trying to say it needs x5 new injectors and going to cost $5000.

Bring it to Toledo, Ohio 43612 and it will be less than $2500 for all 5!

Hope this helps, Wayne

[slowgsr]

Originally Posted by Aqua Puttana

Possibly. Or the high pressure pump? I'm getting closer and closer to wondering about bio-diesel and WVO use in a Sprinter even when you try to do it right. We know MB doesn't recommend it. It sure seems that some of the "It was running just fine and then..." comments/threads here are from people who run bio-diesel or WVO.



vic

Well, we will start by testing the injectors.

We ran the bio diesel in both our sprinters, and a 2005 volkswagen. I decided not to run it in my 6.7l cummins pickup, despite the savings.

The guy we get it from who is a friend of my dads runs it in his 5.9L cummins pickup as well as a volkswagen diesel. He has done this for 4 years never and issues, so we thought it may be safe. As soon as we experienced a problem with the one sprinter we stoped running it in the car and other van.

Both vans got a CEL for high rail pressure p0088. However, the one van still starts/runs perfectly fine, its just in limp mode (max speed 110km/h), and won't downshift. It goes in/out of limp mode, however the other van only went into limp mode the day it failed.

There is always the possibility that the van that is currently not running may have had the issues caused by something other then bio-diesel, or just the last batch was bad. Since I filled up at the pump and didn't get any from that batch because I was out of town.

Anyways, Im almost scared to do the fuel filter to help clear up the p0088 in my current sprinter thats running, in fears of it deciding not to run after, but heck.. That wasn't the case with the one thats down now, the no-start condition was before the fuel filter, not after. Changing the fuel filter just caused the p0088 to go away and turn to a p0087, but the no-start condition was always present.

Anyways, the van has been towed away from the dealership to my dads good friend who is a heavy diesel mechanic. Ill post updates.

Having the other sprinter go down would be a huge problem as we rely on these things for getting x2 guys to/from work & service calls, its good my pickup is a suitable substitue, working out of a pickup isn't that great though.

Thanks.

[brassarl]

Might take a look at this thread, similar situation... just stopped!

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/sho...son#post140300

Here is another.. very extensive
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16321

[NelsonSprinter]

What % Biodiesel did your run in the Sprinters? A Bad batch of it will clog the injectors IMHO, but MB recommends 2%-5% max I think due to acid/ sulfur issues, so I run 3%.
IMHO I think Sprinters are finicky when you deviate from the specs on fluids.

[grinder]

I also run 100% biofuel in my two sprinters. (2006) Never had a "hard start" issue till just last week. My sprinters are now hard start in mornng only and then start fine the rest of day. The temp here is well bove 80 so I know it is not related to jelling.

Not sure it is even related to the biofuel. Going to run some dino fuel to check.

Has any one had the starter "drag" enough to make a "hard start"?