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Old 10-09-2010, 05:05 AM   #11
Altered Sprinter
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Default Re: Noco Battery Isolator on 2004 sprinter, I'm lost

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Originally Posted by calbiker View Post
There's probably well over 10,000 sprinter motor homes built with a relay combining chassis with house battery. I haven't heard of any alternator failures, and word travels fast on the internet.

If you're so certain the relay over stresses the alternator, why not provide an analysis. Almost every motor home uses the relay. We should be seeing thousands of failures.

Cable resistance is a great current limiter.
I'd look at the threads first.
Back to basics there are too many variables as to this model of which predates back to the 1930's The thread was based on a advanced electronic management system.
I could say tap into the EK1 terminal which is grounded ,run 20 to 30Amp wires with a relay 40amp to drive, say driving lamps with a separate in-line appropriate fuse. up to 10 can be run separately from a single tap Providing your not running everything at once,dependent on voltage loadings! Of which can be managed with inboard battery monitoring systems via a designated alternator. most high quality RV units run separate axillary alternators.for this reason.]
If we jump to today's technology as an example sure-power comes to mid for RV's
250amp using Intelligent digital distribution. this is one example.
But it does not monitor voltage drops or spikes,of which requires further electronically capabilities to over come, it's short falls.
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:13 AM   #12
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Default Re: Noco Battery Isolator on 2004 sprinter, I'm lost

That relay looks just like the one the factory installed in mine, but different. Same concept and wiring, different construction technique.
This is the simplest form of connecting house batteries to the alternator.
I like simple, which sure doesn't explain why i like this Sprinter.
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:50 AM   #13
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Default Re: Noco Battery Isolator on 2004 sprinter, I'm lost

Your in house Mercedes variant covers all cabin requirements. these can be hooked up to a NCV via a dedicated PSM via can bus , it can be also be done done via a pulse, on relay's but there are known issues as to vibrations where voltage exceeds or drops below minim values.That has no inboard monitoring systems.
Aux for high capacity voltage draw requires what the thread is about.
To over come this we use UB boards dedicated for cabin 12v acc/s that are directly spliced from theEK1 terminal or direct from the mains positive or aux battery.terminal.
There are stand alone 12v 30amp dedicated micro processors that can be used from mains battery direct to cabin.again no isolators are required as the computer chip prevents over or under charging Waeco, Engels, ABR, Blue seas. has one such dedicated unit for fridges and multiple 12v acc's for tapping off the main wire.
Picture009.jpg

ACR_alternative_to_multiple.jpg

batt 7610 si series.pdf
BLUE SEAS Battery 7610 series.
This PDF contains the aux systems on different aux amperage for alternators.Please take the time to read this.
Back to basics
Included two of a four part series for Mercedes aux systems
Alternators part 3 and 4 are not included
Aux battery retrofit.pdf
AUX retrofit.
EK1 Body Builder electr.connectors.pdf
EK1 terminal Body builders connections



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Old 10-09-2010, 06:25 AM   #14
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Default Re: Noco Battery Isolator on 2004 sprinter, I'm lost

Is there a simple pdf for installing a aux battery in a 2006 Tin? Its the last project to finish my surf camper.
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:39 AM   #15
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Default Re: Noco Battery Isolator on 2004 sprinter, I'm lost

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Is there a simple pdf for installing a aux battery in a 2006 Tin? Its the last project to finish my surf camper.
Yes the schematic on thread 7...[7] but it does depend on the type of isolator your going to use?.
If as an example you only want to run a 80 liter fridge "Big bugger" inverter, 600w pc,with usb ports, coffee jug 800w, some small Led lights etc you can run direct from mains start battery using this example . Wire direct from mains positive, bring the supplied lead H/D with a supplied 30amp fuse direct from your engine back under the firewall and bring the cable through the passenger seat floor. Kook up an additional 12 v 10/15 amp 12v multiple pug and Bobs your uncle power to spare.
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Old 10-09-2010, 12:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: Noco Battery Isolator on 2004 sprinter, I'm lost

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Thats why you guys have so much dam trouble with your sprinters over there,you get what you pay for goodbye 900 dollars , buggered batteries and burnt out diode packs and stuffed up alternator pulleys
LOL
Richard
One reason is that all your neat Projecta stuff is not available here. You have to hook together parts from 3 or 4 different manufacturers to do the same thing.
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: Noco Battery Isolator on 2004 sprinter, I'm lost

The SunForce battery isolator uses 30 mA quiescent current. If you don't use the vehicle for 3 weeks the battery will be dead. I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.

You got least problems when keeping it simple. There's nothing simpler than a relay. And the Bosch alternator signal D+ makes it so easy to hook up. I believe only Bosch alternators have the D+ output. If the alternator isn't Bosch then a smart relay is required (like Cole Hersee 48525 or 48530). This isolator only uses 5 mA quiescent current. Mucho better.

Cal
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:04 AM   #18
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Default Re: Noco Battery Isolator on 2004 sprinter, I'm lost

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Originally Posted by calbiker View Post
The SunForce battery isolator uses 30 mA quiescent current. If you don't use the vehicle for 3 weeks the battery will be dead. I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.

You got least problems when keeping it simple. There's nothing simpler than a relay. And the Bosch alternator signal D+ makes it so easy to hook up. I believe only Bosch alternators have the D+ output. If the alternator isn't Bosch then a smart relay is required (like Cole Hersee 48525 or 48530). This isolator only uses 5 mA quiescent current. Mucho better.

Cal
The BlueSea unit lists 15mA Open Current Draw

I think a benefit of an isolator is that it doesn't just check for a voltage from the alternator and then close the circuit. It has other criteria for closed and open settings depending on voltage. Here is the list from the BlueSea 7610

Relay Contact Position: Combine (30 sec.) 13.6 Volts@12 Volt
27.2 Volts@24 Volt
Relay Contact Position: Combine (2 min.) 13.0 Volts@12 Volt
26.0 Volts@ 24 Volt
Relay Contact Position: Open Low (10 sec.) 12.35 Volts@12 Volt
24.7 Volts@ 24 Volt
Relay Contact Position: Open Low (30 sec.) 12.75 Volts@ 12 Volt
25.5 Volts@ 24 Volt
Relay Contact Position - Open High 16.0 Volts@12 Volt
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:56 AM   #19
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Default Re: Noco Battery Isolator on 2004 sprinter, I'm lost

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Originally Posted by mendonsy View Post
One reason is that all your neat Projecta stuff is not available here. You have to hook together parts from 3 or 4 different manufacturers to do the same thing.
No With projecta this can be supplied as a kit complete.plug and play.
I use three separate auxiliary stations for varying load requiems,[when not required] thus reducing excessive unwanted voltage.It amuses me...I love my toys too.
Is there a weak point with the kit!...Yes the Aux Battery Terminals are,if used in desert conditions {depending where the battery is stored.} I had mine gold plated at the local re-plating shop as the terminals are not a standard genetic off the shelf common terminal.
I purchased two of, as for spares, almost six years ago, one because. I only buy direct from the wholesale point. retail in Australia is very expensive as to retail business operating expenses.
The projecta is simple to install, one connection from the mains positive battery, that's it.
I use the keep it simple stupid policy.[It has never failed].
In almost six years of use The mains battery is original, the alternator has never failed. The original aux battery has been only just replaced.as it was originally not correctly charged. 220amp battery's are rare in Australia It took Century Batteries three attempts on three new batteries to get the start charge correct. I had to show them how to charge a dry cell battery to hold at state of battery at 12.75v standing.

Sunforce has appeared to separated their units for resale into three grouping of purchase.

It makes sense as to a custom application for individual needs of a installation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by calbiker View Post
The SunForce battery isolator uses 30 mA quiescent current. If you don't use the vehicle for 3 weeks the battery will be dead. I wouldn't touch that because I buy with a 10 foot pole.

Your wrong...as to how the isolator works. its not connected to an alternator.
The aux battery will not go flat, if the said battery is charged from new correctly.it will hold 12.75v for at least three months, providing you isolate the aux from external wiring to prevent a potential current draw from active leads.


You got least problems when keeping it simple. There's nothing simpler than a relay. And the Bosch alternator signal D+ makes it so easy to hook up. I believe only Bosch alternators have the D+ output. If the alternator isn't Bosch then a smart relay is required (like Cole Hersee 48525 or 48530). This isolator only uses 5 mA quiescent current. Mucho better.

Cal
Keep it simple principle. The projecta isolator of which is using smart advanced technology again is the heart of the system: [Electronic Battery Isolator] 100% compatible to a Mercedes Electronic ignition system.......The isolator is controlled buy an Electronic MCU chip which intelligently monitors both batteries and connects and disconnects the auxiliary battery as appropriate.

The isolator has manual override so you are always in control.
Priority for starting battery: The electronic isolator does not require any changes to the vehicles existing alternator or electronic ignition system of a Mercedes Sprinter it can be fitted to all 12V vechiles.
Manual override: If the battery goes flat and the auxiliary battery is charged. The electronic isolator allows the batteries to be manually paralleled to jump start the battery.
Over Current Protection: Features built-in over current protection that protects the isolator.Over current is most likely to occur if there is a short circuit in the wiring.
Surge protection: Provides surge protection for vechiles with electronic ignition systems.
The Projecta intelligently integrates with both batteries.State of charge.
At No time will auxiliary cut in from a cold crank start,as an example turn ignition from an overnight stand at a Mains Battery State of Charge= 11.8V ,upon starting you engine with the mains start battery on a crank start voltage will drop to 10.2V placing a massive strain on alternators pulley's and belts,.Once engine fires the alternator will build a charge back to 13.8v at this point the smart charger will cut in, and then recharge the aux by prioritizing the state of charge between both mains start and aux battery.The system works within the alternators normal operating voltage charge range.
It will not fail,it will not interfere or set off codes with electronic ignition systems, nor will it impact on an alternators diode pack.{I constantly do electronic surveillance tests during and whilst not in operating mode to maintain my vehicles peak operating performance levels be it mechanical or electronically.[Good house Keeping keeps the doctor away}
Richard
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Last edited by Altered Sprinter; 10-10-2010 at 02:03 AM.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:42 AM   #20
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Default Re: Noco Battery Isolator on 2004 sprinter, I'm lost

Sure, there may be some benefits. But I'm having trouble visualizing the benefits. Is it better to wait until the chassis battery voltage rises to 13.7V before closing the relay? The inrush current will be huge if the house battery is low in voltage! Current is not limited by the alternator but by the combination of alternator and chassis battery. The relay contacts may not hold up that long.

Still, 15 mA is nasty. Your stock Sprinter may have 8 mA quiescent current. That's almost 200% more leakage current when installing the BlueSea smart relay. You better not leave the vehicle unattended too long.

Cal

Quote:
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The BlueSea unit lists 15mA Open Current Draw

I think a benefit of an isolator is that it doesn't just check for a voltage from the alternator and then close the circuit. It has other criteria for closed and open settings depending on voltage. Here is the list from the BlueSea 7610
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