BioFuel Service Bulletin

stp57

Member
Re: Fuel Service Bulletin

Not worth the risk in my book. But I guess uncle Al Gore might see it differently.
Steve
 

abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
Re: Fuel Service Bulletin

Service bulletin 14-001-07-January 26,2007
Subject: Bio-diesel B5 Fuel
Models:2004-2006 OM 647 (VA)Sprinter and 2007 OM 642 (VB) Sprinter
Fuels with a maximum volume of 5% Bio-Diesel can be used an above model Sprinters. Fuel must comply with spec ASTM D 6751. Fuel must also have the necessary oxidation stability to prevent damage from deposits and/or corrosion(min. 6h, proved with EN14112 method). Doktor A
 

The Guru

Member
Re: Fuel Service Bulletin

Service bulletin 14-001-07-January 26,2007
Subject: Bio-diesel B5 Fuel
Models:2004-2006 OM 647 (VA)Sprinter and 2007 OM 642 (VB) Sprinter
Fuels with a maximum volume of 5% Bio-Diesel can be used an above model Sprinters. Fuel must comply with spec ASTM D 6751. Fuel must also have the necessary oxidation stability to prevent damage from deposits and/or corrosion(min. 6h, proved with EN14112 method). Doktor A
Bio-diesel cannot be added to the fuel tank by the owner of the vehicle in addition to convention diesel, All diesel must conform to 590 which allows a maximum blend of 5% bio-diesel. The 5% can only be added at production of the fuel.
 

AVL_Sprinter

Whitewater Freak
I call bull:censored:.

It is just another scam brought to you by our wonderful oil greedy government. :thumbdown:

First it is B2 then B5 now WTF?

Now lets think about this...

If for over a hundred years someone has been coming to your door to buy mass quantities of something at a price that you determine (the people that control the oil) and then..

many small independents doors open (insert local biodiesel man) with a product that is better and safer...

Would you not do what you could to make the people think that this is bad for your vehicle?

They are not interested in these kinds of things unless they have the control of the market. Hince, why all of a sudden there are flex vehicles, fuel efficient, and hybrids.

Plus I can't beileve that Mercedes Benz would build an engine that would fail by usuing Biodiesel. :thinking:

Regardless of how the Biodiesel is blended.

The warranty of the vehicle is not covered with fuel whether it is diesel or biodiesel.

And you can show me all the paperwork to prove me wrong, that was written by them! I don't believe it!

F:censored:K them. :rad: It has got to start sometime. There is proof of global warming!

Flame on! :yell:

Stepping off the "Soap Box"
 

sikwan

06 Tin Can
Plus I can't beileve that Mercedes Benz would build an engine that would fail by usuing Biodiesel. :thinking:
It's just another disclaimer MB puts into its warranty. I would imagine they have done some testing to prove this, but we have no way of knowing. Every manufacturer does it.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Whoops!
Just to try and clarify the above thread.
DCX ran a service bulletin It was an editorial mis print:smilewink:
They did follow up after the date of Feb 14 2006 and publicly acknowledged the mistake and restated what it was meant to be bio additive minimum 2% ..5%max as to the AD 6751 World wide Fuel watch program My year 1999 this in part for the USA is for part two 2003 ASTMD 6751 with the latter amendment for Aug 2007 now ASTMD 6751-07a
in part referring to EN 14112 the European recommendation's for sulfur contents etc My year 1999 for low sulfur fuel
This has a secondary amendment to ULSD fuels, EN D 14112 through to EN D 14114 up to B100
Where there is a difference is Euro fuels are of three types standard Diesel say 15/ppm , 10/ppm and 5/ppm a different process for diesel , additives for bio mix in many parts of Germany are mandatory for 10 pp/m.
The N/American sector is set for 2009 15/ppm bought forward to sept 2006 but delayed by exemption as to refineries with issues of compliance because of Katrina and BP problems with oil delivery where the shut down in Alaska reduced 10% of the entire us production of local oils to be refined.
Australia has the code the same as Europe , but we have both 15/ppm and 10/ppm which is designated for the year 2009. The European code is not fully operational to the US ASTM 6751 codes, it does not have to be as to the fact US is set for ULSD at 15/ppm fuel produced needs to be within the range of sulfur content of 300/ppm min- to 500pp/m max.
Where difficulty's arise are in the types of oils the US uses and most are heavy crude...within the six main types the US buys or produces in it's own territory, including Canada the heavy crudes have higher sulfur content refining takes longer and is much more expensive to produce,refineries are limited to production of high quality fuels due to old technology.
Diesel plays a small roll for passenger cars in the US in total only three percent of total fuel production is diesel based fuel not all refineries have the capability to produce the fuel not all ULSD fuel has additives as a protection to Lubricity that will conform to a national standard there is no law in the United states that says a manufacture must add the lubricants.
MB has built an engine that will take the B10 fuels for the US it has the maximum rating of B5 There may be a de-tuned engine to compensate for this, I don't know but it would make sense

Even Boshe admit they are not so sure about the modified fuels because of inconsistency with fuel products world wide.
Comment form shell Europe and Australia as combined in partnership year 2002, as follows.
While stanadyne automotive showed the addition of 2% bio diesel to ULSD gave the AGO acceptable lubricity properties.. testing confirmed the efficiency of the RME it did not show satisfactory lubricities for blends containing CME and SME.
Even at 5% !! Hence feed stock source is extremely influential in the degree of lubricity performance, The Fame offers.
Again BS blends would need to conform {Year 2002}

Water and cross contamination of fuels in the US are still a major layer in quality of delivered fuel to the pumps. if a ULSD has no additive it will produce a slightly less MPG result, If an additive is added it will increase the MPG.
US University tests and argument's for the US senate on different process. for ULSD fuel.
Year 2003
In order to evaluate the origin of Bio-Diesel lubricity , several major and main components present in bio-Diesel were added to ULSD and S* with 2% of the methyl ester of Linoleic acid , the lubricity of the ULSD was increased only by 12%,,Calculated based on % wear scar diameter reduction! Whereas 2% of Bio-Diesel can improve ULSD lubricity by 50%, Interestingly vacuum distilled Bio-Diesel with no minor components such as sterols, antioxidants and phospholipids only improved the lubricity of ULSD by 28% the lubricating enhancements mechanism of these minor components.
In brief it is concluded an additive is required to improve the engine performance to a Maxim capacity, sulfur reduction of carbonization is critical , ,,, Where in my option an after market additive is required to reduce the off set of possible contaminated fuels or those fuels sold in ULSD format without an additive. Again there is no mandatory law to state it needs to be added, therefore one must assume fuel inconsistently will be a factor and with switching from Summer to Winter base fuels.
I hope this helps to clarify the above threads,.
Richard
 

sikwan

06 Tin Can
Even Boshe admit they are not so sure about the modified fuels because of inconsistency with fuel products world wide.
This is probably the biggest reason why MB and others are hesitant to fully approve usage of biodiesel. I'll probably do it at least once to experience the smell of fries, but the cost is prohibitive and there is a risk factor depending on the supplier.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
This is correct There needs to be a uniform consistency of fuels... not in part between sates, Fuel and energy supplies for the USA..which are critical the US, it has to be less reliant on foreign oils, and in part production of bio fuels will only help to reduce imports of others oils, to a max of 12%.. the down side is the cost to farmers who rely on feed stock for animals this only leads to inflationary pressures, there are concerns as to the extra energy as to costings that are required to produce this type of fuel, Green House gas emissions are not helping either.
My thoughts have been Diesel is the stepping stone for tomorrows future alternative fuel supply , but money time and investments are need, I believe in Mercedes_Benz 100% But I also feel insecure with local monument not letting the public know with educational programs to understand the rules, this equally applies to government the buck stops with them!!! but tax revenue losses which are high on Diesel, are not an incentive to buy diesel, this is a huge problem in Australia at the moment but deisel sales do equate to nearly 50% of new car sales,
Good night at 3.18 AM Saturday morning.
Richard
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Picking up on the original thread! and the confusion that has lead from the first posting, and the secondary one of the Doktors, both are correct.. but lacked direction as to specific engines! and years?, based on the main factor DCX is quoting from the world fuel charter in Europe which has different years ,to the fuels that the N/American sector which eventually it did receive, to at least 15/ppm.ULSD
The original post of Seeks was for sprinters 2002 only OM 612 which went through to 2004 in the US..EN 14112 ASTM 6751 Euro 3 for the year 1999 this was not changed untill 2003... then an amendment was attached to the said standard..for the US it is August 2007.. Australia September 2005.. different countries, different years, as refineries adjusted for fuel mandates, and or emissions standards for gas, Diesel and Bio-Diesel ranging from E5 E10 E20 to B100 etc.
This posting from Chrysler look at the date

Same numbers but should have separated the years to the engines and Euro standards Euro 3 Euro 4 for the OM 647 D engine up to the year March 2007 for the US sprinters ASTM 6751-07a which was a reference to PDF filters..This engine being OM 642 Delta etc with the particulate filter for Euro 4 standards.

bio fuel1.jpg
Basically DCX just took the reference from MB in Germany and no one bothered to see if it was a correct statement for the US sector.
It does not help when both Ford and GM are on exemption for emission standards of compliance on their commercial units, sedans emissions in the States are up to date and strict to emission standards, Commercial vehicles such as the Sprinters and the local GM and Ford units have exemptions of compliance, Now the Sprinter is compliant and that is where the catch 44 comes into it, Fuel quality.
Legally Sprinters are by bin emission standards for 2007 with a PDF are running on the last of Euro 11 to euro 3 mandates a higher sulfur content still being allowed to enter the engines ? Sprinters do not have to comply to Euro 4 untill 2009 in the N/American sector which leads me to think what bar is the Sprinter on for fuel pressure as to the Dodge site being almost totally defective in data information from engines to axle configurations down to compliance plates talk about a Dodgy site:crazy:
Changing of fuels to 10ppm in Australia was for the year September 2005 introduced January 2006 to comply for Euro 4 mandates
BP complied Caltex did a runner the same as Mobil and use a lesser fuel , Shell is very close as it intermixes brands to comply by adding additives, but is still rated 15/ppm
Guru placed the post of compliance , but was in reference to EN 1412 590 =10pp/m of which the US does not have, as of yet.
I did take the time to follow up on Boshe's comment of not being happy with inconsistent fuels ,, this linked back from shell to the Australian Government of submissions, from shell Australia! as to bio-Diesel fuels only.
Basically they said and it has been confirmed on the same date 27 September 2005 WCO may pick up sufficient sulfur content to exceed 10/ppm similar may arise from the use of Bio-Diesel feed stock, where hair and protein may give rise to higher sulfur levels B100 had the same issues as to process of different oils reacting under different formulations ??? eg; higher sulphuric acid content, corrosion and fatty acids effecting performance as to lower life span in summer months.,,,Winter gelling issues-and this is without adding a thousand pages of commentary, submitted to Government for arguments towards and against the added concentrates of fuels. If it is being forced upon auto manufactures to comply for emission controls then why are not the same issues being placed on refineries to comply! after all they have had the opportunity to do this since 1995 for the program start of the year 1999 this is 2007 and we still have problems that have yet to be resolved with poor quality fuels.
So we have two company directives public releases both flawed as to specific in formation , Engines and year's to which engine, the reference towards the voluntary fuel watch commission is just that "Voluntary It is the pre cursor to the main Fuel Euro mandates that both Australia and the N/American sector follow as soon as each country can get it on line.
DCX should not use the world wide watch fuel program category one/three it should state US EPA guidelines, as we do in Australia.. to avoid the confusion of conflict.
As Seek said , what does it mean ? Europe has mandatory ED10 with ten/ppm down to 5pp/m with bluetec engines and where do they buy the fuel. Mentioning the fact that Daimler AG and Fushe oils have developed programs in partnership for the super synthetic HP fuels of today that sprinters and other MB commercial vehicles use Now in Germany.
Australia has both E10 and E20.. BP Australia warrants the fuel, providing the manufacture will agree to use the fuel 5% is the limit by MB in Australia,, and they sell fuel additive's across the counter, at the franchisee outlets :crazy:Makes you think doesn't it.
It would make much more sense, if auto companies would give a little more information to educate the public on a more frequent basis . Its as if it's in the too hard basket. This responsibility lies with Government oil companies as well, to be just a little more transparent towards the public sector.
Richard​
 

Nurse Ben

New member
What is it in the bio fuels that is bad for the engine?

I'm confused, everything I have read on boifuels suggest that they are more lubricating and thus lead to a longer engine life. So why is 5% such a big deal? I'm all about 100% bio fuel or better yet 100% vegetable oil. I may be new to this list, but making a big deal about 5% biofuel is silliness. If you want to know more about biofuel go to:

http://www.dieselearth.com/page/2/

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/big_rig_cleanup/biodiesel.html

http://www.greasecar.com/product_detail.cfm?prodID=17
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Re: What is it in the bio fuels that is bad for the engine?

I'm confused, everything I have read on boifuels suggest that they are more lubricating and thus lead to a longer engine life. So why is 5% such a big deal? I'm all about 100% bio fuel or better yet 100% vegetable oil. I may be new to this list, but making a big deal about 5% biofuel is silliness. If you want to know more about biofuel go to:
Hello Nurse Ben
The above thread was about a mistake that occurred with a particular Chrysler bulletin . It was also referring to pump bio-Diesel fuels,,,, not home made:shifty:
You are right to be confused as such.
However this is specific to the Sprinter
Quote on the original OM 612 engine..Diesel Bio-fuels literally had the potential to destroy the engine, as to the fatty acids breaking down the rubber components on the engines seals, this also had issues with injectors EGR valves and turbo failure a small plastic seal that corroded in part from unburnt oils but from excessive High sulfur content which was highly corrosive, which had the potential to detonate the engine, $$$$$ as to being not compatible to certain bio-Fuels this lead to major problems with John Deere engines, Caterpillar, and Detroit engines or Cummings cant remember which:thinking: in part it was because of the process of different types of fuel additives, veggie oils for example gelled up at lower temps causing issues etc and the list went on and on , the injection system was not designed for bio-Fuel past a recommended level, hence warranty void:thumbdown: if you exceed it, and had issues with the manufacture, they had right of recourse to refuse warranty, Chrysler engines USA using the 5 in-line in the local makes also would not cover warranty on this,let alone oil sludge, etc.
It is not a matter of silliness as to using over 5% bio-fuel its how the process is formulated and to which feed stock !or modified- waste-oils _ being used,:idunno: this is a major concern with problematic on going issues Now 2007 with an engine manufacture.. on a Diesel engine, a modern one that is.
The equations of investigation did come to a conclusive out come in Europe, Australia, and the N/American sector , that bio-type Diesel fuels had two down sides under certain applications of processing, the lubricity was lowered and corrosion from fatty acids, did damage vital engine parts to prevent it from operating at the designated fuel pressures, thus lowering the capacity of a PDF to deal with the excess high sulfur emissions.out side of the Bin emission codes for the year designated.
I'm not against Bio Fuels, but question the process:professor: and appreciate the manufactures concern ,as too a non uniform process, with different results from oils, and feed stocks. The injectors are set for Diesel E5 to E 10 this is not a problem , but after this? as to B100 then the engine requires to be modified to handle it, and this is because of emissions which come into play.
Use a home made bio-fuel by all means, but do not expect the manufacture to repair 'THE ENGINE UNDER WARRANTY'
if it fails.
Bio-Fuels can be placed on another thread for interaction with members etc, they interest me.
Making the point this is for the Dodge Sprinter!.. it does not refer to other engines years or makes, be it a MB product, or from another manufacture.
Richard
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
do you think they only want 5%, as it is not really regulated yet? or am i wrong?
Who is they?
It is regulated by government regulations as to an E formula, at the pumps..
Bio fuels are a stop gap to cover the inadequate decisions by government to invest in alternative fuel based products. The most the US can possibly produce in volume would be a max of 12% six is considered the best with current production facility's, too late, too little, if oil hits a super peak in price this winter in the USA and with current conflict escalating between Turkey and North of Iraq then you will see the eighty's night mare and History repeating on it's self to re-emerge in the next month or two! and fuel prices will go through the roof , that amounts to a recession the US can not afford.this time round
Manufactures of engines, are not to blame for this.
 

BULBASOR

Active member
Bulbasor is a 2004 with a OM647LA. I was told by the importer in Texas that the OMB647 can run as high as ten % bio and with the addition of the alternate pre-heater can run ONE HUNDRED PERCENT Bio-Fuel but it requires a different sevice interval and an additive is required.

I abmit the guy in Texas did not have all his teeth but he sure had a lot of Sprinters.
 

MTsprinter

New member
Lots of the volkswagen people have been advising running 5% max biodiesel in their TDI motors: as that is the official VW mandate. Well there are many many of us who have been running 20% to 100% biodiesel (depending on season) in our new and old TDIs without the problems predicted. So this topic of choosing to disregard the skeptics and our manufacturer's recommendations has been discussed in great detail elsewhere.
For those curious for a variety of perspectives, see the following link.
------>http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=193287
(Note that SVO is (straight vegetatable oil) and WVO (waste vegetable oil) are NOT biodiesel but rather a fuel requiring a secondary, heated fuel line. Home-made biodiesel (from SVO or WVO) is not to be confused with the ASTM certified biodiesel that I run in both my 2002 sprinter (recently purchased and less than 5k with biod) and 98 TDI (50k on biodiesel).
 
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Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
The original thread is based on Bio Diesel type rated D E5 maximum content ( Ethanol based fuels)
If used above recommendations you void warranty...it's a simple as that. After warranty expires then that's for each individual to choose from. What has been obvious from the introduction of Veggie fuels on the Sprinters are the Known failures that have occurred,
Sprinters are set up for a different formulation for fuels to perform to a ASTM Standard that vary from one country to another.
VW's are not part of the equation to this specific thread as it leads to older engines pre 1995 designs to 1998 that have both euro 11 and euro 111 emission standards not Euro 4 For low ash oils and PDF fitted to the exhaust stream.
Even the VW Crafter with the retained 5-inline had to be detuned in HP to cater for modified fuels with the lesser Sulfur content that bolted on the new PIEZO fuel injection systems. None of the engines with the PIEZO Boshe fuel injectors are designed for the latter home made based Bio fuels of different types., Unless modified for the specific use of fuels above a World ASTM standard that varies from Country to country.
VW Australia will not warrant an engine past 5% E based on a Diesel engine. and we have B100 in South Australia
Noting that the manufactures that make these kits for vehicles clearly state we guarantee our systems to work but change the fuel filters every one thousand k's up to 3 Ks then change every 3K after that? so blockages depending on consistency's are evident as to being not consistent in production and or based on temp ranges as seasons change.
The sites clearly say check with manufacture if warranty is applicable if under warranty, No manufacture will place a warrant of warranty to an alternative fuel if the engine was designed to met a specific fuel based product that complies to state or Nations EPA mandates, for emission control.
Again Boshe will not guarantee the fuel injection system! if alternative non approved fuels have been used, for obvious reasons, it's not a collusion to manipulate warranty's to a fuel but based on proved technology! that there are issues, with homemade fuel based products.. That are not to an ASTM certification for a mandate fuel emission standard, but also because of different process where higher sulphuric acid is beyond a safe limit for an alloy based engine where corrosion or contamination will eventuate.
I'm not biased towards alternative fuel based products, But they must all conform to a set Standard.. that both satisfies the EPA, and manufactures! for reliable consistency, that will perform to a standard for fuel based ignition systems on a modern Diesel engine.
Richard
 

alunj

New member
Lots of the volkswagen people have been advising running 5% max biodiesel in their TDI motors: as that is the official VW mandate. Well there are many many of us who have been running 20% to 100% biodiesel (depending on season) in our new and old TDIs without the problems predicted.
F.
My other car is a VW T5 and VW now allow the use of B100.
I have a Hymer based on the Merc and I really want to run that on B100. Where do I start for sensible advice.
 

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