Camber crash bolts

Has anyone swapped in "crash bolts" like these: http://www.amazon.com/Moog-K90474-Camber-Adjusting-Bolt/dp/B000HPQ1EW/ref=au_pf_pfg_s?ie=UTF8&Make=Dodge|40&Model=Sprinter%202500|2424&Year=2008|2008&carId=006&n=15684181&newCar=1&s=automotive&vehicleType=automotive to reduce the static camber on their front suspensions?

My '12 2500 with 3000 miles sits with about 2.5 degrees positive on the left and 1 degree positive on the right side. The left tire is beginning to show excessive outside edge wear as a result - right side not so much. Obviously I dont load my van anywhere near where MB assumed the front would be loaded - where the camber would probably be fine - so I need to get the static camber down some for the long haul - so to speak - unless I plan to go thru tires unnecessarily.

With MacPherson strut suspensions many manufacturers lock in the camber at the factory with no provision for adjustment other than replacing the stock strut bolts with reduced diameter versions. VW even has a reduced diameter bolt specified in their parts lists for some of their models, to be used by service if the correct static camber cant be set with the factory bolts in place. Anyway, I ordered a couple sets of the Moog bolts referenced above, to try to get the left side camber down.

Walter,
If you own a 2012 Sprinter (MB or Freightliner) with only 3k miles on it, and there is no
evidence that you have been running into things like curbs, parking lot strips, things at least
4" high and unmoveable, why are you wanting to fix this rather than take it back to the dealer
where you bought it and have them fix it under their new car warranty.
Who measured the camber...using what kind of alignment machine.
Take it back and make them fix it at their expense.
If you install the Crash bolts (they look pretty scary to me) it will void your warranty
for sure.
I'm having a hard time figuring how decided that repairing this problem is your responsibility.
I had a driveshaft shake/vibration in my newest Sprinter (2011 170" 3500 Cargo) and it
took a couple of trips, but the driveshaft was replaced under warranty at their expense.
First trip the MB USA engineering guys made the dealer change both the carrier bearings,
but when they didn't fix it they said OK to replacement of the entire driveshaft.
It's a "process" yes, they have to do it one step at a time, but if you are persistent,
it will be fixed.
Roger

The van hasnt hit anything. I plan to make an appointment with MB tomorrow but from what I have read, I wont be too surprised if they tell me "Its supposed to be that way".

I used the same tools to check camber that I use on my race car. A Smartcamber tool. Good to +/- .1 degrees depending on how careful I am. I also have tools to get to toe, caster, bump-steer and dynamic camber and toe but they are not necessary to simply check this.

I found that I decrease the left side camber by a mere .2 degrees by stepping into the van's drivers seat so it would take a LOT more mes to get it down by adding weight and I understand "loaded" is where the camber is supposed to be correct. Based on the geometry and angle of the control arms I observed when under there, it makes sense - thought I made no attempt to compress the suspension to see where it ends up when the arms are level.

The crash bolts are under $30 total so even if MB does something to correct it, that is no great $ loss to me. As for crash bolts being scary - I would estimate that a very large number of vehicles with MacPherson struts end up using them to correct camber issues.

I'm familiar with portable race car alignment tools. Used to race Formula
B and Formula Ford way back when.
Sounds like they (MB USA) didn't get it put back together correctly in SC at the
reassembly plant.
With the amount of positive camber you are getting, and the difference
right to left, I hope they take care of it for you.
Again, I caution you against using other than MB approved and manufactured camber bolts
to adjust your camber to within normal limits.
Roger

Not like the T1N, I thought NCV3 camber IS adjustable OEM?

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7075&highlight=camber

NCV3 chamber is OE adjustable. The strut mounting holes are over sized and slotted for it. The lower hole is slightly larger than the mounting bolt and the upper bolt hole is slotted for the adjustment. The crash bolts that are being described have a cam on it that theoretically makes the adjustment easier but that is only in theory. In reality, they are a pain in the butt, but they do work if you have the patience. Hope this helps.

Thank you, John
Sprinter Store
http://sprinterstore.com/
A division of Upscale Automotive, Inc.
19460 SW 89th Ave.
Tualatin, OR 97062
503-692-0846

In theory your van should or might drift left hands off wheel on flat road???????

There can be a tolerance stacking to create a bad camber condition ...... it can correct using several methods. These methods are commonly done at the factory. + 1 on the above posting to gett the max or best camber setting.

Other tricks if neded:

Loosing all the sub frame bolts and moving the sub frame to the right and retightening while shifted the camber could be split to about 1.5 positive on both sides.

Another common fix is lifting the front end, removing both tires and loosen all suspension parts......remove all slack in every component to the negative camber tighten every bolt with the most negative camber position. Example the strut to knuckle connection has a "slop" pull so the slop is towards the negative. It can all add up to achieve a better camber number.

Also MB has more beefy camber bolts ( than the aftermarket bolts shown) for extra camber adjustment.

If any trick and or standard adjustment to camber is done it will effect toe.....toe MUST be reset.........

sorg dodge in goshen,ind has at least 30 of the upper and lower bolts needed as well for some reason the nuts that are on back order nation wide!

Hi Walter,
I have a 2011 with the same problem. My front driver's side tire was feathering. After 3 wheel alignments, balancing, and 6 tire rotations I had replaced 6 tires in 20,000 miles.
Three MB dealers did the wheel alignments to specs which didn't help. Mercedes Benz of North Olmsted in Ohio tried fighting MB on my behalf after they tried to blame me for loading the van in a wrongful manner. MB told the service manager at MB of North Olmsted that my van is the only one with this problem. I have three friends that have the same problem.
Bob Neuman at MB of North Olmsted asked me to get my friends vin numbers because he wants to force MB to acknowledge that this problem is wide spread and to take responsibility to find a fix. If you would call him at 4407162700 that would help in this effort.
I found a truck alignment expert at Jerry's Tire in Wyoming,Michigan who ignored the wheel alignment specs from MB and adjusted the camber and toe using his years of experience. It has been 40,00 miles since he aligned my Sprinter and I have had even wear on all my tires.

Those cam bolts are quite common. I sell quite a few to the shops I service. Typically used in cases with no OE adjustment or where the OE adjustment is insufficient or requires slotting the strut. They can be a pain, but they do work and I've not heard of a case where they failed.

I wouldn't advocate shifting the cradle in most cases as it can change SAI. VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda is one OE that does adjust front camber by shifting the cradle to equalize camber side to side. Unless it was designed as the adjustment you may not get a lot of bang for your buck (and effort).

Excellent info everyone, Thanks!

The flange on the bolts and nuts must be hiding the upper slot.

If the subframe isnt supposed to be shift-able like in the VAG products of the last 15 years or so, I wont bother to try to relocate it on the slop of the mounting bolts. If that is off and needs to be shifted, I would rather have MB do it since this is under warranty. Same for any wiggle room with lower ball joint mountings and the like. I have used all these things to my advantage on my VW racer over the years to compensate for a tweaked chassis, but I would prefer to not go there myself with a new van.

I dont have a problem resetting the camber with the strut-knuckle bolts myself as this appears to be the designed-in adjustment and may simply have been mis-set at the assembly plant. I will check the existing toe (to see if it is to spec now), see if I can reduce that camber to +1.0 degree (spec) with the stock bolts, then reset the toe to spec this AM. If I can get the left side camber down to something acceptable I will drive it for a while and see how it behaves. If not I will call MB. I should be able do this in less time than it takes me to drive to the dealer. Anyone know the MB torque spec for these bolts? I found everything else I need to know in various places on the forum ... In fact if I had done the right searches yesterday I would have known about the adjustable camber and some other info like the importance of the steering being straight when this is complete .

That was a piece of cake.

Before making any changes I drove the van onto a very level surface and rechecked the cambers. +1 degree right and +2 degrees left. Toe 1/8" per side. The left side upper bolt was nearer the positive camber end of its slot. A couple taps with a rubber mallet with the bolts loose and it was re-set. Torqued the bolts to 140 ft.lbs. (generic tables show an M14 10.9 bolt to have a dry spec of around 140-150). Couple turns on the left tie rod and toe was back as well.

Walter Clark said:

Excellent info everyone, Thanks!

Anyone know the MB torque spec for these bolts? I found everything else I need to know in various places on the forum ... In fact if I had done the right searches yesterday I would have known about the adjustable camber and some other info like the importance of the steering being straight when this is complete .

Click to expand...

As per the SM:

3. Install the lower strut (1) and bolts (2) to the steering knuckle. Tighten the bolts (2) to 140 N·m (103 ft. lbs.) Plus an additional 120° turn.

Those aftermarket bolts don't look like they could handle that torque + yield factor I do know other manufactures are very strict on those strut to knuckle bolts as to grade, flange, type of nut, torque, reuse, under sizing (shoulder cut) etc etc


Agree you should not have to do this yourself on a new van. As others have stated, some dealers and MB say it with in "spec" or there no problem (tire wear) etc and thus refuse to address or fix the concern.
Shifting the cradle is or can be done to adjust after other methods are done without the desired results.. The cradle does have a tolerance factor (slob) on where it was positioned from the factory.

As stated in other threads there is huge difference between setting alignment to "spec" and setting alignment to resolve a problem or concern. Still.....Curious does your van drift???

I will be having mine checked this week, my driver front is also wearing excessively on the outer tread with only 9k miles. Passenger side still looks new.

Hi Fireball

Mercedes Benz of North Olmsted is one of the largest MB dealers in the US. They want to use there influence to resolve this issue but they need Sprinter owners whom have this alignment problem to contact them. If they go to MB of North America with a list of owners then MB will not be able to continue to deny that there is a problem at the factory.
There also is a wide spread problem of air conditioners, on at least the 2011 and 2012 Sprinters, freezing up even though they are fully charged. If you have this problem please call Mercedes Benz of North Olmsted and ask for Bob Neuman. There phone number is 440-716-2700.
The people at MB of North Olmsted are very costumer oriented. When Saab went out of business last year they had no money to cover warranty claims. GM is honoring the warranty on the model years in which they were the owners of Saab but not the later years. Those people were out of luck when it came to their warranty. MB of North Olmsted, who was also a Saab dealership, was the only dealership in the country to continue to honor the warranty of the people they sold Saabs to out of the dealership owner's own pocket.
Bob Neuman at MB of NO. is very eager to pursue these issues with MB in behalf of Sprinter owners.

showkey said:

As per the SM:

3. Install the lower strut (1) and bolts (2) to the steering knuckle. Tighten the bolts (2) to 140 N·m (103 ft. lbs.) Plus an additional 120° turn.

Those aftermarket bolts don't look like they could handle that torque + yield factor I do know other manufactures are very strict on those strut to knuckle bolts as to grade, flange, type of nut, torque, reuse, under sizing (shoulder cut) etc etc


Agree you should not have to do this yourself on a new van. As others have stated, some dealers and MB say it with in "spec" or there no problem (tire wear) etc and thus refuse to address or fix the concern.
Shifting the cradle is or can be done to adjust after other methods are done without the desired results.. The cradle does have a tolerance factor (slob) on where it was positioned from the factory.

As stated in other threads there is huge difference between setting alignment to "spec" and setting alignment to resolve a problem or concern. Still.....Curious does your van drift???

Click to expand...

Thanks for the spec. I will go back and re-torque them using that, the torque/turn combination may be above the 140 ft. lbs. I used and I dont need this moving around on me.

I cancelled the order for the crash bolts...not needed. I seem to have adjustment room left with the stock bolts if I decide I need even less static camber.

The van didnt pull or drift as I can recall. It (that much positive camber) just didnt look "right" and closer inspection showed the tire wear. I will monitor the tires closely and if the future wear isnt as even as I would like I will take about half a degree out of both sides.

I assume someone with MB determined that the 1 degree positive static camber would go to around zero when being driven at some assumed average speed and load. Since this van probably isnt used the way they assumed, that static camber may not be right for me. Time and tire wear will tell, but that is where it is for now.

I am glad I can do this myself, so I can dial it in as I see fit. I know having an alignment done can give mixed results - a lot depends on the person doing the work.

Walter Clark said:

I assume someone determined with MB that the 1 degree positive static camber would go to around zero when being driven at some assumed average speed and load.

Click to expand...

I had those same outside edge tire wear issues with my first set - only lasted 90k miles. But since then, it's been OK. Nothing has changed with the way I use the van, so I assume something changed in the suspension on its own. Maybe that's also in their calculation for how it's initially set up?

I called my sprinter dealer and they said the allignment is covered under warranty for 1 year or 12k miles, but....they said they don't have the capability to align them

So I called 2 local MB dealers who don't sell sprinters but they said they could align it but it would have to be self pay because they aren't a franchise and can't perform sprinter warranty work

As I work for a dealer in Canada I can only speak to issues I've seen here, and we have definitely seen this issue of excessive tire wear on the outside of both front tires. The good news is that when the customer has brought it to our attention early (within the first year) we have been able to address the problem with alignment/camber reset at no charge to customer. We see this on vans that are more lightly loaded or loaded more towards the rear and we have had very little problem getting MB Canada to cover this.

If you've got a fairly new van with tire wear problems take it to your dealer, this is something that should definitley be covered under warranty. Make sure that they are not just doing an alignment to the original factory specs, this will not solve the problem, in Canada we have been supplied with new specs to fix this issue.

If your dealer isn't cooperative talk to MB USA, they don't like to have unhappy customers with new vehicles.

Phil Brown
Star Motors of Ottawa

I had same issue as a I neared and went over the weight rating; and with a large percentage beyond the axle which was 'lifting' the front tires (plus, porpoising the van as I went over dips/bumps).

I reduced the problem by installing a set of helper springs and a lift/spacer. The van now has the same 'rake' angle as a new/unladen van and no longer 'porpoises'.







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