Pilot/Flying J Posting Biodiesel Content

Pilot/Flying J is now posting biodiesel content at all of their stations nationwide. Whatever you think about Flying J, nice to see at least one retailer making this information easily available.

http://www.pilotflyingj.com/fuel-prices

smiller said:

Pilot/Flying J is now posting biodiesel content at all of their stations nationwide. Whatever you think about Flying J, nice to see at least one retailer making this information easily available.

http://www.pilotflyingj.com/fuel-prices

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During my 12,553 mile summer travels all Flying J's- where we wanted to fill had BioDiesel contends listed on all of their stations...although we avoided them.

Didn't want to continuously have Biodiesel fill after fill during our travels. In the past Flying J didn't carry Biodiesel but now they do.... !

cheers....

Mein Sprinter said:

During my 12,553 mile summer travels all Flying J's- where we wanted to fill had BioDiesel contends listed on all of their stations...

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Yes, biodiesel is depressingly common at Flying J and many/most other stations these days. But at least you can tell what Flying J stations do not have it (even if they are a minority)... I wish more fuel vendors would provide this information.

Was at a Shell in Medford OR yesterday. The attendant said starting Monday they will only be pumping B20. Not sure if this is for all Shell, or all OR, but that means my 2014 might not be able to be fueled in OR? MB says only B5 max. How strict do you guys think the B5 is?

Rensho said:

Was at a Shell in Medford OR yesterday. The attendant said starting Monday they will only be pumping B20. Not sure if this is for all Shell, or all OR, but that means my 2014 might not be able to be fueled in OR? MB says only B5 max. How strict do you guys think the B5 is?

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MB holds by the '5% maximum' but has been kind of wishy-washy about it and has also intimated that up to B20 won't destroy your motor as long as you keep up on a couple of things (oil level is not rising, and they recommend that the vehicle not be stored for extended periods with B20 in the tank.) Technically greater than B5 violates the warranty but to my knowledge they don't seem to be enforcing this rigorously. My guess is that the Euro manufacturers have been caught off-guard with all the recent mandates in some states for a minimum biodiesel content (making it technically impossible fuel the vehicle properly in some states), and they are still figuring out what to do.

Check out: http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf

Basically it leaves you with more questions than answers, but from what I can tell you are probably OK if you are running B5-B20 through the tank quickly, but it may not be good to let the vehicle set for long periods with biodiesel in the system.

smiller said:

MB holds by the '5% maximum' but has been kind of wishy-washy about it and has also intimated that up to B20 won't destroy your motor as long as you keep up on a couple of things (oil level is not rising, and they recommend that the vehicle not be stored for extended periods with B20 in the tank.) Technically greater than B5 violates the warranty but to my knowledge they don't seem to be enforcing this rigorously. My guess is that the Euro manufacturers have been caught off-guard with all the recent mandates in some states for a minimum biodiesel content (making it technically impossible fuel the vehicle properly in some states), and they are still figuring out what to do.

Check out: http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf

Basically it leaves you with more questions than answers, but from what I can tell you are probably OK if you are running B5-B20 through the tank quickly, but it may not be good to let the vehicle set for long periods with biodiesel in the system.

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Correct like I mentioned before somewhere in our forums here and there that the BioXXX will NOT destroy our engines, far from it...but seemingly affects the DPF and is suspect to unbalance the DEF final mix thus illuminating an "engine" light-- but as far as lack of engine lubricity; nada!

Oh, sure it'll wax more in cold climes; might even "leak" into your engine oil too, etc.

Just hope that MB will eventually come up with something to relieve the thousands of NCV3 owners from this anxiety. We tend to travel somewhere far every years and hate to see that we cannot pass through "this" big State as they're only dispensing B20 which is a MB- "Nein, nein, streng verboten!!"

cheers...

Yes, the problem is not lubricity, seals, etc., as many people like to quote.

There seem to be two primary issues, both related to the fact that biodiesel doesn't vaporize as readily as pure petrodiesel as this can A) potentially lead to deposits in the fuel system if allowed to sit for extended periods and B) during a DPF purge additional fuel is injected during the exhaust stroke, which flows downstream to the cat converter where the raw fuel reacts and creates an extremely hot exhaust gas flow that is used to heat and purge the DPF. MB's concern is that high-biodiesel blends may not vaporize properly and some fuel may condense and get into the oil.

Hence the two main warnings when using greater than B5: don't let biodiesel sit in the fuel system for extended periods, and keep an eye on the oil level to ensure it doesn't rise significantly. I'm not sure if even these two items are really that big a concern but that's what Mercedes recommends in states where one can't avoid a steady diet of B5-B20. As for 'just traveling through', I wouldn't worry at all about a tank of B5-B20 that you run through in a day on the road, I really doubt such occasional would be a problem.

Just checked my Ocala ,Fl. locations ,,,, & no where on pump shows the " Bio" #'s . Only says ultra-low sulfur #2 ,, So ?????? .. Not sure of accuraticity of text . All say " for all diesels " .

the dude said:

Just checked my Ocala ,Fl. locations ,,,, & no where on pump shows the " Bio" #'s . Only says ultra-low sulfur #2 ,, So ?????? .. Not sure of accuraticity of text . All say " for all diesels " .

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You're fine...same here in NC. All's ULSD here no BioXXX yet on ordinary roads/State roads- but along I-95- at the Flying J's Truckstops there's BioXXX now! Wonder if Petro Truck stops will follow suit???

cheers...

the dude said:

Just checked my Ocala ,Fl. locations ,,,, & no where on pump shows the " Bio" #'s . Only says ultra-low sulfur #2 ,, So ?????? .. Not sure of accuraticity of text . All say " for all diesels " .

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This has come up before.......there are no "label police"........labeling is all over the place and no label is a violation of some mandate

As for FL and B20. Looks like it is very common

http://www.pilotflyingj.com/fuel-prices?filters=filter-state_FL


The real question is B20 really B20 or some blend between B5 and B20......this comes up because bio is more costly so they put a B20 label on it and blend to what ever they feel like.
In other threads B5 was common with the blue label saying up to B20.

Even the Pilot chart has intended blend......what is "intended".........we intended to blend at 20 but it got too expensive so we quit at 5%

showkey said:

The real question is B20 really B20 or some blend between B5 and B20......

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That's the most frustrating part. They slap a label on the pump that says 'May contain up to 20% biodiesel' which tells you that the fuel may at any given time have anywhere from zero to 20%. IOW virtually no usable information at all.

SHOWKEY ,,, as for that chart ,,, I'm only assuming that the PUMPS there describing are for the pumps in the back for the BIG RIGS . As the cashier stated to me ,, " the DEF from the pump is sold in back " . So I can only assume the Bio fuels are for the BIG RIGS .

As a use of bio diesel , can i throw my own views into the ring . I run a pre CDi sprinter 2.9 5 cylinder on anything that is delivered from fuel stations . I also use new clean veg oil in varying ratios with pump fuel . I have used home made bio that has made seals swel & weep . The cause was nopt processing the mix correctly or WASHING the new fuel to remove both the methanol content as well as any free hydroxide in the mix , But it is methanol that creates most bio fuel problems . SO ...... Any major supplier adding bio diesel to their dino diesel should be capable of removing these two additions and thereby removing any possibilities of seal damage . One argument given to me by a research chemist for not using bio fuel in common rails came down to molecule lengths compared to dino fuels , he then proceded to draw lots of formulas on the big board . His & this is only his personal view the longer molecules may be affected during injection at high pressure leadign to injection problems . He also said smaller doses injected several times during the firing stroke may also result in incomplete combustion & coat / block exhaust filters & catalytic converters . He was certain that refinery produced bio fuel was probably on a level with dino for purity and would possess greater lubricity . biodiesel actually has a greater lubrication quality than ULSF diesel resulting in less wear to pumps & injectors .

Right thats it , had enough so it's beer time

the dude,
If you want to fill up your DEF tank, nothing prevents you from going to the big rig islands and getting your fuel and DEF.
Big travel centers like Pilot/Flying J/Petro/TA often have an island that's set up for straight trucks (not semis) that has both fuel and DEF on one side
only.
DO NOT make the mistake of going against the flow at any large fuel stop.
DO NOT drive around the back side of the pumps out in front of the store and go in heading out.
Doing either of these things is guaranteed to P*SS someone (like me) off.
Really annoying to be waiting for access to the diesel pump...with a Sprinter and a big trailer, and have some fool drive around the back and get gasoline
at the pump you were waiting for.
Had a BIG fracas out in Utah at a Flying J once. Almost had to prove that my Mitsubishi Fuso 4x4 6 ton box truck with 5K trailer had the gears and traction
to push a Hummer out of the way and into the parking in front of the store.
I waited for over 10 min. to get to the out front diesel island, and this guy in a Hummer pulls around the back.
Actually, he took me seriously and backed out.
Oh, by the way, it's OK to get your fuel and drive around to the parking area or pull forward at the big rig pumps.
As long as you don't leave the property, there's no problem with moving your vehicle BEFORE you go in to pay or get your receipt.
Roger

Dingo said:

As a use of bio diesel , can i throw my own views into the ring . I run a pre CDi sprinter 2.9 5 cylinder on anything that is delivered from fuel stations . I also use new clean veg oil in varying ratios with pump fuel . I have used home made bio that has made seals swel & weep . The cause was nopt processing the mix correctly or WASHING the new fuel to remove both the methanol content as well as any free hydroxide in the mix , But it is methanol that creates most bio fuel problems . SO ...... Any major supplier adding bio diesel to their dino diesel should be capable of removing these two additions and thereby removing any possibilities of seal damage . One argument given to me by a research chemist for not using bio fuel in common rails came down to molecule lengths compared to dino fuels , he then proceded to draw lots of formulas on the big board . His & this is only his personal view the longer molecules may be affected during injection at high pressure leadign to injection problems . He also said smaller doses injected several times during the firing stroke may also result in incomplete combustion & coat / block exhaust filters & catalytic converters . He was certain that refinery produced bio fuel was probably on a level with dino for purity and would possess greater lubricity . biodiesel actually has a greater lubrication quality than ULSF diesel resulting in less wear to pumps & injectors .

Right thats it , had enough so it's beer time

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Yep me too..Beer time!

I am a retired chemist and stated here in some posts that lubricity isn't the problem but incomplete combustion might harm the DPF....even sets off DEF calc within- due to longer molecular structures of BioXXX.

Hope MBUSA monitors this conversation and comes up with a viable alternative: engine re-mapping for our current NCV3

cheers....

Mein Sprinter said:

Hope MBUSA monitors this conversation and comes up with a viable alternative: engine re-mapping for our current NCV3 <snip>

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I'm pretty confident MBUSA is not monitoring this conversation to see how they might improve the Sprinter product and brand management.

-Jon

jdcaples said:

I'm pretty confident MBUSA is not monitoring this conversation to see how they might improve the Sprinter product and brand management.
-Jon

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OTOH, I am sure they are monitoring it to collect evidence against potential warranty claims by those fool hearty enough publicly admit using B10 or greater.

jdcaples said:

I'm pretty confident MBUSA is not monitoring this conversation to see how they might improve the Sprinter product and brand management.

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LOL. Safe bet.

I do like all this input . This group has nothing but great info . Thanks a bunch ! .

A new blend of biodiesel in Texas. That's a baby rattle snake.


- - Mike
2013 AS Interstate on 2012 MB Sprinter 3500 Long & Tall