Sound deadening / insulation

zipperje

Member
I am getting started on a basic conversion of stock 2013 Crew 144 High Roof to a comfortable travel van / gear hauler / camper. Step 1 for me is sound deadening / insulation and wall panels.

Looking for some advice from the experienced folks here re: DIY vs. hiring this out. I have a quote from a reputable upfitter of about $4,400 to (1) install sound deadening throughout, adhered to the panels interior side, (2) stuff pink fiberglass insulation in the airspaces (including door panels) and (3) install nice side and ceiling panels to finish the interior. This sounds like it will end up great but is way way more than I intended to spend.

For a DIY option, I would (1) remove the floor panels, wall panels, factory ceiling liner in cargo area myself; (2) have a Line-X shop spray foam walls, floor, ceiling of cargo area with Line-X "Foam-Guard" and (3) install home-built wall paneling, replace factory ceiling liner with home built panels and re-install the factory floor. With this DIY I would likely not insulate door panels or driver ceiling/floor.

Main questions:
(1) Using spray foam, is a sound deadener adhered to the panels also needed or should I expect adequate soundproofing using just the foam?
(2) any experience with the Line-X FoamGuard product? They have several different foam products and I will need to specify either open or closed cell, and a weight.
(3) Any advice about "things that must be done before spray foaming". I already plan to install roof vent/fan and some reinforcement in the wall panels (for bed platform support) before spraying. If I decide to install roof rails, I also would buy OEM part / install before spraying. Anything else recommended before foam goes in?

Thanks a lot in advance for any advice offered!
 

d_bertko

Active member
Spray closed cell foam eliminates any chance of trapped moisture. Important for higher humidity areas, any wet sport, cold weather use where the vents will be closed. Steel walls do not breathe like stickhouse exteriors.

I used Dow Great Stuff foam for the wall cavities and a combo of that and rigid polyisocyanurate foam for the overheads. A messy application but definitely with in the realm of unskilled DIY. Any mistakes easily repairable.

The best deal I saw here was someone who hired a house insulation foamer for $300. A very good deal. (I used about $250 of foam cans for my 158")

I used cheap HD 10' smurf tubes for my ac, dc and stereo runs as conduit before I foamed.

Certainly a good idea to cut all your holes for fan, furnace, windows, shore power outlet, structural supports, et al before the insulation foaming. I'd think acoustic treatments are thin enough to do before wiring stage.

Dan
 

jackbombay

2003 158" shc
The best deal I saw here was someone who hired a house insulation foamer for $300.
Thats what I'm hoping for, I plan to drive to a house where they are already spraying so they can just step into my van and blast away then I drive home with my respirator on., easy for them and cheap for me.
 

tDot

Active member
I hope no one at Homeland Security sees you driving around in a Sprinter with a respirator on...

Make sure you fully prep your van and mask anything that you dont want spray foam on.
 

Neil2

Neil2
Fiberglass insulation is one of the worst choices because it will promote rust in the voids and isn't that efficient for R values. Anyone paid to install it, IMO, doesn't care about quality or the client's best interest.
 

glasseye

Well-known member
Mass is what blocks sound. That's why lead is the ultimate solution. Unfortunately, lead is both expensive and very heavy.

Spray foam will provide excellent thermal insulation, but I'm not sure about it's sound insulating properties.

My sound insulation research led me to pay particular attention to the floor. I used thick, heavy rubber mats for the floor and Frito runs much quieter now.

I used "mass-loaded vinyl" for the walls. When I rap my knuckles on the tin-drum walls, it sounds like a brick wall.

I found that Dynamat and similar products used in a single layer application offered very little sound blocking.

For more info, see

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14166

Sound insulation info is on later pages.
 

westyventures

In the Oregon Outback
In my last campervan project I used QuietCar (same product as QuietCoat). Excellent water-based product at $240 for 5 gallons, enough to do a medium Sprinter.
For insulation I installed Enguard, which is spun of fibers made from pre- and post-consumer polyester (soda bottles etc.). Unfortunately the manufacturer discontinued it recently, but thinking ahead, I bought 20 bags. So if anyone else would like some...
The combination of these two 'green' products has no odor, no harmful fibers, and turned a diesel Westfalia into a very quiet and comfortable winter camper.

Edit: the Enguard I have is R-19. 5.5" thick batts. Easily split for thinner walls.
 
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Neil2

Neil2
You don't mention R value comparisons with other types of insulation. How does your material compare??
 

tooldye

Member
I am a fan of the spray foam. I found a pro here in KC and we did a trade, so I don't know what he would charge, but I would guess it would be less than buying the foam and doing it yourself. Masking everything is very important, but foam is pretty easy to remove. We also sprayed a release agent on areas, which is helpful but frustrating, since it is clear and hard to see where you've sprayed it. Don't know why they don't tint that stuff.
I recommend this guy, Jesse, as he now has experience with it. No need for the gas mask afterwards, it dries in seconds.
You can reach him at kcfoam at hotmail.com
 

Jb1rd73

2006 NAFTA 140 HR
I thought about having the home spray foam guy doing the van, my question is; Will I still need to put in a dynamat/fatmat type sound/vibration dampener? Or will the spray foam run double duty since it is adhered directly to the sheet metal?
 

rb3232

Member
I thought about having the home spray foam guy doing the van, my question is; Will I still need to put in a dynamat/fatmat type sound/vibration dampener? Or will the spray foam run double duty since it is adhered directly to the sheet metal?
If you don't foam directly on the metal I believe you lose the prime benefit of using foam. The foam will make the vehicle quieter but I don't know by how much. Ross
 

gregowski

Member
I'm working on my new build on a 2011 Sprinter and am also doing soundproofing and insulation at the moment.

I decided to go with RattleTrap for the sound-deadener, as it's one of the popular "all-in-one" adhesive constrained layer damping (CLD) materials like DynaMat, FatMat, etc., but fairly cheap, and it's not rubberized asphalt, which some of these products are (I have a chart comparing eight different criteria for soundproofing materials in the new sixth edition of my Sprinter RV Conversion Sourcebook).

Above the soundproofing, I'm using a radiant barrier of foil-faced UltraTouch recycled denim insulation, glued on with polyurethane adhesive. Next I'll rough in the wiring, and then the cavities will be finished off with loose-fill UltraTouch denim.

The upsides of my choices:
- low toxicity both for install and over time (unlike vapors & dust from curing/installed spray foam/fiberglass)
- no risk of body metal rippling/incorrect curing like with spray foam
- easy to access/change wiring afterwards (unlike with spray foam)
- fairly cheap and available (insulation from Home Depot)

At least one downside: it takes time to install, especially compared to spray foam, though this might be a wash given time to mask off a body for spray foam.

I've got pictures of the build in progress on the Sprinter RV Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/SprinterRV

Greg
 

zipperje

Member
Thanks for all the comments/suggestions. Have not yet found a Seattle area insulation company that will spray foam my van so I am looking at alternatives. Appreciate the comments about avoiding pink fiberglass....the concept of paying to have that stuffed in the potentially damp/moist walls sounded pretty bizarre to me when proposed.

I'm inclined to go with some peel and stick Ensolite-like product for sound deadening plus Thinsulate-like insulation and MLV in the roof, walls and door panels, rubber type heavy floor covering "Bedrug" over the plywood floor.

I'm inclined to do the crew/cargo area plus driver and passenger door cavities first and see how well that works before deciding if more is needed such as under the plywood or the exposed wheel wells. Not sure if I will take out the driver compartment headliner and dash to do the front.
 

vsession

New member
You can look at companies that do refrigerated van. They use spray foam an usually know how to spray a van correctly.

The chance they will damage the body or put to much foam in one pass are probably very low.
 
I just did a van with interlocking foam padding, the garage floor stuff, aerosol contact cemented to the areas I could reach, including the ceiling...Very effective with the sound dampening...Cheap too...
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
I'm inclined to do the crew/cargo area plus driver and passenger door cavities first and see how well that works before deciding if more is needed such as under the plywood or the exposed wheel wells. Not sure if I will take out the driver compartment headliner and dash to do the front.
On my 144" NCV3 I used sound deadener and rigid insulation above the headliner. I was very surprised how much it reduced noise in the cab area. The improvement was about equal to the change in noise I got from doing the rear wheelwells and adding a 1 1/2" thick floor.
 

surlyoldbill

Well-known member
I just did a van with interlocking foam padding, the garage floor stuff, aerosol contact cemented to the areas I could reach, including the ceiling...Very effective with the sound dampening...Cheap too...
I was thinking about that stuff for use behind the panels and headliner. Right now the most noise seems to be coming from the front wheel wells. I don't know about the back, because I never ride, I always drive. The foil covered self-adhesive 1/4" thick duct insulation from Home Depot works great, I've covered the interior of the slider and behind the rear panels and rear doors with it. I was thinking of taking out the headliner and front floor cover and fully covering with this stuff. It's inexpensive, but probably not as good as products designed to reduce noise, like Dynamat or BrownBread.
 
Yesterday I pulled the front door panels and Roadkill'd 'em...Next, I did the entire front floor pad area...Had enough for the step-in areas too...Significantly quieter now...A good $100 investment...
 

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