Change Converter/Charger?

mpsan

New member
Has anyone here changed from the Parallax 7345 that is in my 05/06 LTV? I believe that other equipment will now let you stay on shorepower without cooking the coach battery(s).

There is a great conversion here...and I wonder if anyone has done this...or found any other solution.

How to Change from Parallax 7345
 

Toyman

New member
I changed the converter section in my Lazy Daze (same as the Leisure Travel). It was a piece of cake. I deviated from the posted instructions in a couple of ways. Instead of drilling holes in the top to feed the cables thru I cut the entire top out - MUCH easier. I also drilled LOTS of holes that allowed the PD 9160 to breath easier.
 

Don Horner

2012 Unity IB
I'm about to make this change, not because I especially wanted to at this moment, but because I have to replace my charger/converter, anyway.

Here's what happened to my charger/converter: on a 2005 Leisure Travel Free Spirit, the charger/converter is mounted below and offset to the right of the refrigerator. About 50% of the charger converter is under the lower right corner of the fridge. While defrosting my freezer, I did not get back to it at quickly as I had expected, and a fair amount of melted ice ran down the face of the cabinet under the fridge. Because I was parked at a slightly nose-down attitude, the water ran across the face of the charger/converter.

It has done this previously without harm. But, this time, some of the water apparently got between the cover and the cabinet, ran into the charger/converter and shorted it out. I heard loud pops and cracks, saw flashes and smelled that terrible burnt electric smell. The charger/converter unit is cooked. It's a Parallax 7345 as described by the others.

Remembering an earlier thread on this forum that mentioned 3 step converters from bestconverter.com, I contacted them. They have a 3 step Ultra III upgrade unit that fits into the Parallax housing with little modification, provides the better charging, better filtering and they also have a 55 amp model. The exact replacement Parallax is $195, the 3-step 45 amp upgrade unit is $205 and the 3-step 55 amp upgrade unit is $215. However, they are temporarily out of these units. The owner said they have a pallet load coming in, and I am on the waitlist to be notified as soon as they arrive.

Ironically, one of my tasks for this weekend was to search to see if there are any other, possibly better and/or cheaper, alternatives. I started with my favorite forum, and sure enough, there is an active discussion about it!

I'm not familiar with the Progressive Dynamics unit. I haven't started my research, yet. I will keep digging, but if anyone wants to jump in with good recommendations or success stories, I need it!
 
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BaywoodBill

pre-Yuppiedom
I heard loud pops and cracks, saw flashes and smelled that terrible burnt electric smell. The charger/converter unit is cooked.
OOPS


However, they are temporarily out of these units.
I hate it when they say that.



Now about this deal of cooking the house batteries. I guess that means if you keep plugged into shore power? But for how long before the cooking? Does that mean if you're ina campground for two days and keep plugged in you will overcharge the batteries and boil out all the water?

I don't understand what that happens. For generations every automobile has had voltage regulators or something that keep you from overcharging the engine battery. Why doesn't this work for the system to charge the house battery?

I remember when people had to turn on their headlights while driving in order to avoid overcharging there batteries but that's only because I'm that old. It's been half a century since anyone needed to do that.
 

Don Horner

2012 Unity IB
Here's the way it was explained to me. Remember, however, that I am a 67 year-old guy with reasonably good technology skills, but those were developed before the electronics revolution. So, if I get a number wrong or a concept slightly skewed, I have an excuse. :idunno:

The charger/converter does two things. It converts 110v shore power to 12v power to run things like lights, the electric sofa, the thermostat on the AC unit and many more. It also acts like a conventional battery charger, which uses 110v power to recharge batteries, such as the 12v house batteries in an RV.

The standard charge function in the Parallax converter/charger produces a constant rate of charge, probably 13.6 volts. If I understand what is said about the Progressive Dynamics unit, it does the same. There is a sensor of some sort that detects when the battery reaches full charge, and the charger is turned off. But, it stays at 13.6v until it is turned off. When the battery drains a little, the charger comes back on to bring the charge back up. But, it comes back on at 13.6v. This can put too much of a charge into the battery, "cooking" off the water in the cells and shortening the life. It is apparently also devastating to AGM or gel cell batteries.

The better solution is a 3-step charger. If I understand the concept correctly, what this does is start with an initial charge rate of 14.2 volts for faster recharging, then at some point (I think around 90% charge) drop back to 13.6 volts, then as the battery nears full charge, it drops back to 13.2 volts, which is described as a "float" rate, designed to keep the battery fully charged without "cooking" it. Apparently there are some 2-step units that start with 13.6v and cut back to the 13.2v float rate.

According to my research, with the Progressive Dynamics 9100 series, this is accomplished by adding a Charge Wizard, an additional piece of equipment that controls the charge and reduces the voltage when appropriate. Again according to what I have been reading, the newer PD 9200 series units have the Charge Wizard built in to them. I don't know if this is a 2-step or 3-step unit.

bestconverters.com is also offering the Ultra III charger/converter, which has the 3-step charge controller built-in, offers better filtering against electronic "noise" in the 12v side of the converter/charger, and bolts right in to the Parallax housing without much, if any, modification. It's difficult to decipher the bestconverters.com web site at times, but this unit appears to be built by Magnetek.

I had an extensive conversation with the owner of bestconverters.com last week, and this is the unit he recommends. While he sells others, including the PD unit, he did not mention them to me.

You are correct that all of this applies only when plugged in to shore power for extensive lengths of time. However, my LTV is plugged into shore power at all times unless I am actually driving it. I use it 4 nights a week on average, staying in it at the rural property I'm preparing and improving for our new house. I keep it stocked with food, etc. all the time, and keep it plugged in whether at the rural property or at home, running the fridge on gas only when driving from point to point.

I have some other questions about batteries and charging, but I think I'll start a new thread in the batteries section.
 

Toyman

New member
I like the old PD 9160 because of the remote CW (Charge Wizard). The old CW has a buton that allows you to manualy change charge rates and I'm not certain that the 9260's builtin unit does. This may, or may not be important to you. I sometimes use a 1000 W Honda that puts out a nominal 900W. The 9160 when charging at 60A (which it often does when starting to charge low batteries) pulls 1000W. Other times when traveling with my friend we will share a 2000 Honda - same problem. Throttle back the CW for a few minutes to get off the bottom, then you can go to full charge.
 

BaywoodBill

pre-Yuppiedom
Don, I greatly apreciate your plain language information that helps me understand some of what I read.

So you retired so you could work?
 

mpsan

New member
The Ultra III, which I bought (55A) is made by WFCO. I like it a lot and put it in my 05/06 LTV. I put two NEW group 31 LifeLine AGM's in (210AH Total) and wanted to be sure I had a 3 stage for the AGM's! OH...I also removed the underseat battery! Both AGM's are in the rear.
 
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Don Horner

2012 Unity IB
Still waiting for mine. Bestconverter.com says they have the converters in stock now, just not the miscellaneous parts that make up the conversion kit. They are expecting them by the end of the first week in June, and I should have the stuff by mid-June. I thought about going with the Progressive Dynamics unit, but the installation is much more complex. The remote charge wizard is of no interest to me; I want to have it completely automatic and forget it's even there.

Because I have the electric rear sofa, which would be a bear to remove in order to cut the floor to install batteries in the rear, and which would be in the way every time I check the battery water level, and because I plan to install wet cell batteries which have to be checked, I have decided to steal a page from Al Jiminez, who installed one of his aux batteries in a box behind the passenger seat. Since I will be adding two 6v batteries, which are shorter than 12v batteries, I have decided I can mount two of them side by side in a box behind the seat. Like Al's, the box will serve as a badly needed footstool when the passenger seat is swiveled.

This will concentrate all 3 of my batteries in a tight group, the 12v under the passenger seat and the 2-6v's right behind it. The cabling is simplified, and the 6v batteries will be easy to check (the 12v will still be a pain, having to remove the passenger seat).
 

BaywoodBill

pre-Yuppiedom
Don, I have an electric drill (Bosch) that is very easy to use under the electric sofa to remove the battery covers.

In addition, I accidently discovered something about the wiring set up on our Free Spirit... maybe it's the same on yours. I discovered yesterday evening that I had left a light on in there (it's not generally on shore power) for a couple of days and the batteries were barely keeping the poor thing going.

There was a discussion in the RV.net ConversionVan forum about whether or not the batteries will charge from shore power if the battery switch is off. So I decided to test it. With the battery switch off I plugged in the shore power and left it all night. This morning I unplugged and then checked the battery... no charge.

This could be important for you. If you are leaving your RV plugged in all the time, you just need to turn off the battery switch and you won't overcharge your batteries. You don't need a different electric setup. Save yourself money and work so you can devote more energy to getting your land ready.
 

Don Horner

2012 Unity IB
Don, I have an electric drill (Bosch) that is very easy to use under the electric sofa to remove the battery covers.
Is it an angle drill? I have a Makita cordless right angle drill that would also be good for that -- I've just decided that I would like the "footstool" behind the passenger seat, even if there are no batteries in it, and I think it will simplify my cable hookup.

In addition, I accidently discovered something about the wiring set up on our Free Spirit... maybe it's the same on yours. I discovered yesterday evening that I had left a light on in there (it's not generally on shore power) for a couple of days and the batteries were barely keeping the poor thing going.

There was a discussion in the RV.net ConversionVan forum about whether or not the batteries will charge from shore power if the battery switch is off. So I decided to test it. With the battery switch off I plugged in the shore power and left it all night. This morning I unplugged and then checked the battery... no charge.

This could be important for you. If you are leaving your RV plugged in all the time, you just need to turn off the battery switch and you won't overcharge your batteries. You don't need a different electric setup. Save yourself money and work so you can devote more energy to getting your land ready.
Thanks for the info, but if you recall, I cooked my charger/converter and have to replace it, anyway. The stock lower unit for the 45 amp Parallax is $195; the conversion to the 3-stage Ultra III 55 amp is $215. The extra cost is $20! The Ultra III comes mounted in a bolt-in box that requires no modification; changing to it is not much harder than replacing the stock converter. The primary difference is that I will be replacing the 12v fuse panel in order to get one that is fully filtered.
 

BaywoodBill

pre-Yuppiedom
Don, it's not an angle drill. I went looking for an angle drill and saw the Makita but then I saw this Bosch thing. It's small and powerful. An extremely handle drill. Easy to use and carry around, screws 3 1/2" screws (that's 8.9 cm for Richard :D ) as long on a charge as my larger Makita that I have hardly used since I got the Bosch.

I wonder if we're off topic. :popcorn:
 

Toyman

New member
I just ordered a Prosine 2.0 for the van, it has a 100A charger, and automatic change over switch. I hope the 2xAGM are up to it !
 

mpsan

New member
I just ordered a Prosine 2.0 for the van, it has a 100A charger, and automatic change over switch. I hope the 2xAGM are up to it !
I wonder how many amps our LTV takes...even with the Dometic running on 12V? I ask as I have two new group 31 Lifeline AGM's and was down to 12.24 volts after we went to eat in a restaurant!

Dave, W6TGE
 

Toyman

New member
I don't KNOW what the draw is, but it is less than 55A as that is what the converter is. On my Gulfstream I would use about 50 AH in 12 hours using a CPAP all night. The AH draw varried between 40 - 70 AH for what seemed to be the same use. It is hard to come up with a figure that is meaningful, except maximum, or an average over a period of time.

I do KNOW that the 2xgrp31 Optima batteries won't run the LT for 2 days in a parking lot !
 

BMA

New member
I wonder how many amps our LTV takes...even with the Dometic running on 12V? I ask as I have two new group 31 Lifeline AGM's and was down to 12.24 volts after we went to eat in a restaurant!

Dave, W6TGE
If the Dometic is able to run on LP it is a power hog when running on electricity. It uses a resistance coil in place of the LP flame. A compressor based 12VDC refrigerator will use less power.

- Bryan
 

mpsan

New member
If the Dometic is able to run on LP it is a power hog when running on electricity. It uses a resistance coil in place of the LP flame. A compressor based 12VDC refrigerator will use less power.

- Bryan

Well, I do use LP if we are away a bit, but use 12VDC if we are driving and just stop to eat. I have since been told that the Dometic should only use 10-15 Amps. Even if other stuff like alarms (LP, etc) take a few more amps, it should last a bit. 15 Amps should last 6-7 hours before my 210AH capacity gets to 50%. I may measure this when I get a chance, but I do not have a clamp-on meter.
 

mpsan

New member
I don't KNOW what the draw is, but it is less than 55A as that is what the converter is. On my Gulfstream I would use about 50 AH in 12 hours using a CPAP all night. The AH draw varried between 40 - 70 AH for what seemed to be the same use. It is hard to come up with a figure that is meaningful, except maximum, or an average over a period of time.

I do KNOW that the 2xgrp31 Optima batteries won't run the LT for 2 days in a parking lot !
...also, do you know how much current our lights take? I am surprised that the 55A WFCO's fan comes on if I just run the TV and 2 lights when on Shorepower. I think all is working OK, but expected a lot more from 210AH AGM's.
 

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