Pros and Cons -06 vs 07+ sprinter vans for the poor man

I'm a poor man dreaming of owning a sprinter for obvious reasons. I've saved and saved for over a year and think I have enough to buy one cash. It's difficult deciding which one to get so I came here expert advice. Please share what you believe are the 5 cylinder vs 6 cylinder pros and cons for a poor man

Because nobody has stepped forward, I will answer.

First. I am not a poor man. I am a person with sometimes severely limited resources.

NAS aka NAFTA 2006 vs 2007.

I have some experience with my 2004 so a 2006 T1N replacement made sense for me.

The T1N is somewhat more basic as to systems/parts.

Off the top of my head, in general terms.

T1N

The T1N is just generally easier to work on DIY.

The 5 cylinder engine has good history for longevity.

The pollution controls are more basic vs 2007 (NCV3). Eg. - No DPF.

Engine oil choices are less expensive and restrictive.

The T1N modules are a bit easier to access with relatively inexpensive scan tools.

The vehicle systems are a bit more basic. Eg. - T1N door lights are controlled with ground switching vs a module in the NCV3. Dash warning lights are LED's vs displays for NCV3.

The engine replaceable components are generally easier to access.

The drive train uses more traditional components such as replaceable front wheel bearings/seals.

NCV3

The van is reported to be more modern and generally updated.

Transmission RSN has not been a problem.

The NAS aka NAFTA 2007 and 2008 MY are reported to be the most DIY friendly of the NCV3 models.

I'm missing a bunch of stuff above.

My opinion.

A good T1N can be great for DIY, but they are only getting older.

If an NCV3 is desired, a good NAS aka NAFTA 2007 or 2008 are the best model years for someone planning on DIY maintenance.

This reply should help to get others to throw in more opinions.

vic

I have had no issues doing all the basic maintenance on the '05 T1N...with research, guidance and inspiration gleaned on this forum. I bought at 120K miles and now at 170k have done, all fluids, filters, water pump, vicious fan, idler tensioner, cooling and turbo hoses, brakes, some glow plugs and sensors.
I too saved for a year and waited for the 'right' van. Cash is king, but be patient and ready to pull away from any deal that reveals neglect. You're 'right' van is out there. The forum contains stories of buying the wrong van...often in a hurried state of blissed-out van-lust.
I have no comparative NCV3 experience, they were out of my price range at the time of purchase.
My local Euro-mechanic shop owner picked the '05 T1N after his research. Employing master Mercedes mechanics... he could service whatever he pleases.

ManWithDog said:

I'm a poor man dreaming of owning a sprinter for obvious reasons. I've saved and saved for over a year and think I have enough to buy one cash. It's difficult deciding which one to get so I came here expert advice. Please share what you believe are the 5 cylinder vs 6 cylinder pros and cons for a poor man

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Man with dog (in Austin.....). I have owned both generations of vans and I think if I was on a real tite budget I would go T1N, and a pre 04 at that. The liquid cooled egr valve is expensive to replace on 04 and up but here in 2016 your main concern would be to find a clean non rusty van. I had a 03 140" SHC that had a few issues but easy to work on yourself. Bought mine new and ran it 167k, it had another 200k easy in it.

Good luck on looking and try to find a Texas Sprinter before you go to Denver....

Much depends on how much you desire the newer NCV3 chassis as you'll probably find either engine (I5 or V6) does the job. Both engines are capable of a very long service life but both also have their foibles, injector leakage (aka 'Black Death'), stuck glow plugs, harmonic balancer issues with the T1N and potentially costly problems with finicky emissions controls with the V6. I wholeheartedly concur that if you want the NCV3 you should stick to models prior to 2010, that is when SCR (also called DEF or Adblue) emissions systems began to be installed and if you have problems there you can be in a world of expensive hurt. Also you can delete the most troublesome emissions controls on the 2007-2008 NCV3 which also deletes the vast majority of problems (playing with emissions controls is controversial but need to mention it for completeness.)

As always when buying a used vehicle, service records and proper care in its prior life is probably the most important factor and this is especially so with MB vehicles which do not take well to sloppy maintenance.

Bought a 2008 2500 long and tall from Ryder (they suck), but after they fixed things, rebuilt tranny and brakes I really cannot complain. I put a drive shaft in, glow plug controller, sway bar mounts and some hoses early on. Now has 296,000 miles on it. Had to re seal all the injectors, black death can happen but not as scary as on the I5, new pulleys and tensioners on front. Exhaust rotted after the muffler finally. Need a glow plug, did put two front calipers on, have and ESP light I need to get fixed.
Original DPF ran Mobil 1 for the longest time then the tuner, Green Diesel Engineering said use Rotella T6, last 4 or 5 changes with that. No issues at all and way less expensive.
I fell for the KONI shock and strut lie but now have Bilsteins. I did do inner tie rods, outers, ball joints and a front spring about 35000 ago.
I really have no complaints.
I would stay away from a 2007, seems oil cooler seal issues were common, new seal on later vans. It also has a 4.10 gear I think instead of I think I have a 3.73. Mileage penalty there. The I5 will be the mileage winner all day long

Oh did I mention it's a rust bucket.

I really do like the sprinters, especially the T1N models.

That being said, a poor mans van these really aren't. Not unless you are well versed in german vehicles or you are a mechanic on the side. Don't get me wrong, mine has been fairly cheap to operate thus far. But the risk of an expensive repair is not to be underestimated for an owner not versed in mechanical things. Junkyard/used parts are either impossible to find, or expensive.

A poor mans van in my opinion is going to be a ford E150/250/350. They can be had from government surplus auctions for less than a third the cost of a good sprinter. Often with high tops! And if you get one without, high tops from patient transports etc can be found in junkyards for little money. Fuel economy wont be stellar, but the gas engines are fairly reliable, and parts are available everywhere cheaply. Plus just about any mechanic shadetree or professional can work on them. If you are on a tight budget parts for these vans are in pick and pull junkyards all over the country (engines, transmissions, etc).

Midwestdrifter said:

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A poor mans van in my opinion is going to be a ford E150/250/350. ...

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Along the same thinking, another possibility is the Chevy Express vans. Reports from my sailing buddies seem to show the Chevy gas engines as better with fuel economy when towing vs the Dodge B250 and Ford vans.

I've had good luck with wheel chair transport and medical transport service vans. They are generally not driven hard. The maintenance is usually kept up to date.

vic

I bought a 2007 2500 170"wb with 165,000 miles 1 year ago. I had 1 issue early on lhm. I cleaned the egr and it cost nothing. Ive been excited to do my own maintenance with help from this sight. Maintenance would be expensive at a dealer and I wouldn't give it to anyone else but a sprinter mechanic. Best van I ever owned. Ive had dodge and ford before.

To clarify my earlier post. I do not believe sprinters are inherently more difficult to work on than domestic vans. The T1N in particular is very easy to work on, with excellent access to most components. If you have ever had to do an exhaust gasket on the Ford V10 in the E vans, you probably learned a few new profanities along the way.

Instead the difficulty/expense with service for the non-mechanic comes from paying others. With a well known domestic platform there are thousands of mechanics who have had lots of experience working on them. That means they don't have to learn on your vehicle and at your expense! If you can find a reasonably priced and truly qualified/experienced/competent sprinter mechanic this tends to eliminate the problem.

For example, almost every month there is a new thread on this forum about some "diesel mechanic" who wants to replace a perfectly good turbo due to a boost leak or LHM.

For those of use with financial means or mechanical aptitude this is much less of a concern. This forum has a wealth of information available for searching, not to mention the skilled DIY types and few professionals that post there.

Great information so far. I am set on a sprinter I currently have a vanagon and have worked on it 300 hours plus so I know a little about something about mechanics. Never worked on a diesel other than replacing a valve cover gasket on a 03 alh TDI. I want to travel with my dog and wife so mpg is a must. I'll have a few thousand stashed away for any emergency but my income is random so I don't want to constantly be fixing things or changing parts like brakes over and over. I also cannot get stranded due to breakdown because my dog is 12 and she's got cancer. PPI obviously is a must. From my research and your input I'm leaning towards a 06 or 03. Is it strange that every person I contact for a sprinter has no maintenance records?

Honestly there is minimal difference between 02/03 and 04/06 sprinters. There are some technical differences, but you can read about them on the forum. At this point its all down to condition. A skilled sprinter familiar mechanic would be your bests bet for a PPI. Make sure they will spend at least an hour with the van on a lift.

If you are doing your own work the T1N models are much less complicated, and have fewer CANbus connected components. They are older and have higher miles.

Mileage matters! The T1N drivetrain can go a very long time, but everything else on the van will be wearing. At 300k miles lots of items could be nearing the end of life and should be inspected. Rear ends, driveshaft, steering rack, AC system etc.

If you are doing your own work this takes some of the risk away. Many of the common failure items are not terribly expensive. Bolt on components suspension parts, brakes etc.

There is real risk of na expensive repair with any vehicle this old. I hate to see someones bank broken by an unexpected repair.

If you find an 07/08 (pre adblue) model in good condition for the right price, I would consider it. The V6 has some quirks, but they are generally not world ending if you are technically capable. The NCV3 models ride better and have nicer interiors, and will be newer.

And there is higher headroom in the 07/08 right? I'm 6'2" :T

Can't comment on the headroom in an NCV3, but a T1N accommodates my six foot height perfectly. Just. Six-two, you'd be ducking, if only slightly. And that's with the standard floor. If you built it up (for sound insulation, for example) or install anything overhead (lights, for example) they'll be a problem for you.

Comfortable stand-up headroom is priceless. That said, the doors are taller and heavier on the newer models (rear doors and particularly the slider) and are a little more awkward to use, IMHO.

I drove an NCV3 when I was in the market for a Sprinter. A new, demo unit. It drove like a station wagon. Beautiful ride. The T1N is definitely a small truck. I don't care. I love driving this van. The view out the windshield is spectacular and it's been as reliable as an anvil for 115k miles. Maintenance is easy. Better fuel economy, too, but that's probably because it's a smaller vehicle.

Bottom line: I bought in 09 and 08 NCV3s were going dirt cheap because of the recession. Before I sent a wad of cash to eBay Motors for Frito, I asked Doktor A which one I should get. NCV3? or T1N? He advised the T1N because it was simpler. So far, I've blessed his advice.

But I am only six feet tall...