Sway bar discussion
- Thread starter hkpierce
- Start date
There are many good points in this discussion but some stand out as most relevant to me from the stand point of validation from other sources and personal experience:
1. For whatever reasons, increasing rear roll stiffness relative to the front reduces lean and understeer. This can even be achieved to a small degree by increasing rear tire pressure relative to the front. In most vehicles this would have to be a very significant change to induce dangerous oversteer but actual testing and use is likely to be the best way to determine this.
2. Stiff anti roll bars reduce articulation and can definitely hurt ride quality over irregular rough road surfaces so getting the right balance here is important as well.
3. Sprinters have some room for significant improvement in both shock/strut damping as well as rear spring rate and roll resistance depending on use etc.
Has anyone actually installed the Koni's or John's sway bar and disliked the overall changes?
I tested my mostly lightly loaded Sprinter with just Koni rear shocks, just Koni front struts, and both together. All were adjusted to John's recommendation (which I thought would be too stiff but wasn't). Each provided improvement for my objective of better body/handling control without too much ride deterioration. For me the struts seemed to provide the greatest portion of gain but clearly all four were the best overall.
I plan to try the sway bar but for now the improvement is enough to give me incentive for a more extended trial.
1. For whatever reasons, increasing rear roll stiffness relative to the front reduces lean and understeer. This can even be achieved to a small degree by increasing rear tire pressure relative to the front. In most vehicles this would have to be a very significant change to induce dangerous oversteer but actual testing and use is likely to be the best way to determine this.
2. Stiff anti roll bars reduce articulation and can definitely hurt ride quality over irregular rough road surfaces so getting the right balance here is important as well.
3. Sprinters have some room for significant improvement in both shock/strut damping as well as rear spring rate and roll resistance depending on use etc.
Has anyone actually installed the Koni's or John's sway bar and disliked the overall changes?
I tested my mostly lightly loaded Sprinter with just Koni rear shocks, just Koni front struts, and both together. All were adjusted to John's recommendation (which I thought would be too stiff but wasn't). Each provided improvement for my objective of better body/handling control without too much ride deterioration. For me the struts seemed to provide the greatest portion of gain but clearly all four were the best overall.
I plan to try the sway bar but for now the improvement is enough to give me incentive for a more extended trial.
abittenbinder
Doktor A (864-623-9110)
Considering how many Sprinters have been fitted with these larger rear aftermarket anti-sway bar kits and the generally positive owner feedback-I think this can be considered a closed issue. If you have a tall, fully loaded Sprinter it appears to be a worthwhile suspension upgrade. I hear from John that some Westfalia Sprinters actually come with a larger diameter rear bar as standard equipment but I'm curious if the front bar was upgraded by Westfalia as well? Doktor Andy
John at Upscale says it is a very simple direct bolt on easy replacement with no special tools, unusually difficult access, or need to press bushings in or out. Glancing under the vehicle seems to confirm this.
Doktor A--I have a short(?) lightly loaded vehicle and am not certain that the bar will yield the same net benefits to me but I am certainly interested in trying it.
Doktor A--I have a short(?) lightly loaded vehicle and am not certain that the bar will yield the same net benefits to me but I am certainly interested in trying it.
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I have posted on the View/Navion site under "files" two papers that might be of interest to those on this forum. One is entitled "My visit to the Sprinter Store". The Sprinter Store is also Upscale Auto in Tualatin, Oregon. Fortunately I live in Oregon so could visit them directly. I visited them after a terrible experience with another after market dealer. I was impressed with their competency and responsiveness. We had Upscale Auto do the complete Suspension Upgrade to our -06 View H and I report on this under another file labeled "Review of Upgrades" under "Files" on the View Navion Site.
I understand that Upscale Auto, The Sprinter Store, ships the parts for their suspension upgrade though I don't have any direct experience with this.
We have driven our View in rather extreme conditions in Canada and most recently a three month tour of Baja. I have also posted under "Files" on the View/Navion site a paper on "Taking your View to Mexico". We had number of things done at Upscale in anticipation of this trip including a 15' grounding cable attached to a welders clamp that John of Upscale Auto recommended and it probably saved my life. Mexico is notorious for ungrounded electrical systems and we hooked up to one without attaching the ground, the entire unit was HOT! I got zapped every time I touched metal. Attaching the ground of course resolved this issue.
We also added a whole unit Surge Protector in our electrical compartment and it too was a valuable upgrade in the wildly fluctuating current of Mexico.
I am new to this forum and you may have already discussed these topics to death, I just wanted to share my two cents worth to this important topic.
Iflyfish
I understand that Upscale Auto, The Sprinter Store, ships the parts for their suspension upgrade though I don't have any direct experience with this.
We have driven our View in rather extreme conditions in Canada and most recently a three month tour of Baja. I have also posted under "Files" on the View/Navion site a paper on "Taking your View to Mexico". We had number of things done at Upscale in anticipation of this trip including a 15' grounding cable attached to a welders clamp that John of Upscale Auto recommended and it probably saved my life. Mexico is notorious for ungrounded electrical systems and we hooked up to one without attaching the ground, the entire unit was HOT! I got zapped every time I touched metal. Attaching the ground of course resolved this issue.
We also added a whole unit Surge Protector in our electrical compartment and it too was a valuable upgrade in the wildly fluctuating current of Mexico.
I am new to this forum and you may have already discussed these topics to death, I just wanted to share my two cents worth to this important topic.
Iflyfish
Discussion on installation and results of Roadmaster swaybar:
http://www.expeditersonline.com/dcforum/DCForumID16/1721.html
Roadmaster link: http://www.roadmasterinc.com/index.html
http://www.expeditersonline.com/dcforum/DCForumID16/1721.html
Roadmaster link: http://www.roadmasterinc.com/index.html
OEM upgrade
For conversion into a camper, Mercedes recommend a beefier rear anti-sway bar with different rear shocks. I asked some German friends to query Mercedes for the correct part numbers of my 2006, then I looked up their Mopar numbers and asked my (Canadian) Dodge dealer for prices. In US dollars these prices would be less:
Anti-sway bar
Mercedes part number A 901 326 03 65
Mopar part number 05128603AA
Price: C$207
Bushings for above (two required)
Mercedes part number A 901 326 01 81
Mopar part number 05128604AA
Price C$12.55 each
Shock absorbers (two required)
Mercedes part number 903 320 01 31
The shock absorbers are not available in North America but they can be had in the UK for £57.67 apiece plus shipping. Koni shocks might substitute but you would need to determine the appropriate adjustment, which is less simple than it sounds, and they would end up costing at least as much. UK dealers can be found through Mercedes's UK web site: <http://e-services.mercedes-benz.com/dsc_gb/Dispatcher.jam?businessCase=DLp&dsc_locale=en_GB>
The price of these parts was less than aftermarket parts and installation was straightforward. It took my mechanic 1-1/4 hours. The Sprinter wallows less now.
For conversion into a camper, Mercedes recommend a beefier rear anti-sway bar with different rear shocks. I asked some German friends to query Mercedes for the correct part numbers of my 2006, then I looked up their Mopar numbers and asked my (Canadian) Dodge dealer for prices. In US dollars these prices would be less:
Anti-sway bar
Mercedes part number A 901 326 03 65
Mopar part number 05128603AA
Price: C$207
Bushings for above (two required)
Mercedes part number A 901 326 01 81
Mopar part number 05128604AA
Price C$12.55 each
Shock absorbers (two required)
Mercedes part number 903 320 01 31
The shock absorbers are not available in North America but they can be had in the UK for £57.67 apiece plus shipping. Koni shocks might substitute but you would need to determine the appropriate adjustment, which is less simple than it sounds, and they would end up costing at least as much. UK dealers can be found through Mercedes's UK web site: <http://e-services.mercedes-benz.com/dsc_gb/Dispatcher.jam?businessCase=DLp&dsc_locale=en_GB>
The price of these parts was less than aftermarket parts and installation was straightforward. It took my mechanic 1-1/4 hours. The Sprinter wallows less now.
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BaywoodBill
pre-Yuppiedom
Thanks for the information. We have an under-used section here for the View and Navion and it would be a pleasure to have you post your files there.
KL2BE
Member
I just installed a 1 1/8 inch sway-bar this morning ($364 from Upscale Automotive in Portland). I also bought rear (only) Koni shocks. John at Upscape was very helpful!
My DIY installation took two hours, minimal tools and jack stands to keep the rear wheels unweighted.
I just completed a test drive and can report that the impovement is DRAMATIC.
Our LTV's handling has been somewhat better than I expected after reports from this and other forums. After driving more than 4,500 miles from Minneapolis to Portland (via Arizona and the California Coast) I almost decided against the upgrade since the handling was not too bad at highway speeds (the LTV factory installed Firestone air-bag helper springs). It was the low-speed rock & roll in parking lots and back roads that I found really annoying.
The handling at all speeds is now so noticeably improved that I am quite happy with the decision to go for both the sway-bar and the Konis. I'm just terribly annoyed that an expensive MB needs $650 worth of after-market parts to perform the way it should from the factory!!!
CdnVWJunkie
Member
maurerc - did you measure your bar before you installed it? You mention factory HD shocks in your post, did you install them?
I'm glad to see this topic being discussed.
I'm glad to see this topic being discussed.