T1N 647 Engine Water Coolant Pump Replacement

abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
My bolt did not appear to be a self cutting bolt (I ran it thru an 8mm 1.25 threaded nut to make sure of its size, and it was was round, not triangular in any way), which is why I pre- threaded the water pump.
The factory fastener is not a thread 'cutting' bolt but rather a thread forming bolt used in soft alloy castings.

The bolt will always be marked '10.9' on the head (normal bolts are typically 8.8) in addition to having a hard to identify, slightly triangular cross section.

Do not tap a non threaded bore when you encounter one in a new Sprinter alloy casting. It likely uses a thread forming bolt as a fastener. These are used in numerous locations on the Sprinter engine.

Doktor A
 

sailquik

Well-known member
The Metric designation on the head of the screw tells you it's an alloy steel screw,
medium temper.
The term for the "thread forming" feature is trilobular.
If you would like more info, take a look at "ASA 10.9 Fasteners"

Here's the link.... go to near the end of the page where the strengths are listed:
http://euler9.tripod.com/bolt-datab...size straight drilled or punched hole. Roger
 
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billtomko

New member
You guys put out some great information. My 2004 shredded its belt Tuesday while my driver was out for deliveries. Of course the weather was terrible with tornado warnings all around and torrential rains coming in waves. Nice to be able to easily lower the hood and duck into the back :) After finally getting the remnants old the old belt out and new belt on, we started it up and there was a loud squealing/ringing and we immediately shut it down. The new belt was turning with everything but the water pump. Time to get a new pump.

Wednesday morning, I was quoted $184 from the dealer with the metal gasket. Picked it up at 8:30am and started the repair about 9:00am. I opted to remove the radiator completely, which meant removing the intercooler, condenser, and the trombone cooler. Access was obviously not an issue and I was to more effectively clean out the fins of all of those components. I will say that I did not disconnect the condenser or trombone, but rotated them clock-wise to a 90 deg position and hung them from the open hood with a 4 ft long zip-tie (the kind used for HVAC flexible ductwork). Once everything was out of the way it was a snap. Also I removed and resealed the fuel pump as per AP (thanks again!) since I have already had to do this on my 2006 Sprinter, changed the oil and filter, and the fuel filter. I finished up about 5:00pm and drove it home since my driveway is kind of steep and it would be easier to burp the cooling system. All done and and cleaned up by 6:30.

This morning, Thursday, my driver is back on the road. I'm sore and about $400 lighter. The tow cost $150 US--Ouch. The rest was coolant, water wetter, Mobile 1, and the oil filter. I didn't get to figure in the cost of the clothes I was wearing when I orignially attempted the "field replacement" of the belt.
 

SewerRatz

Illinois Licensed Plumber
Thank you very much for the right up. My water pump sprung a leak and sounded like it was grinding up some marbles. The write up made things go nice and easy.
 

dbeyer

Member
Remove the core support front bracket entirely. Once you have it turned upside down, you can remove the cable easily and set the entire assembly to the side. This goes for the turbo heat shield as well. Only three mounting hardware. One bolt and two nuts.

Remove both headlights, this enables much more room to get at hoses and such. I simply unscrew them and let them hang over the side.

Remove the front bumper. This is much easier than you think. Remove the front bumper license plate bracket and the two push pins at the corners. The bumper will pull out. It is only a plastic fasad to look like a bumper. Caution, there is a Air temp sensor located behind the plate. Again, two plate bolts, and two plastic push pins. set the bumper to the side.

Now here is the best part. remove the lower radiator hose and the smaller hose that goes to the pipe coming off the water pump.
From down below, there are two transmission cooler lines. You need a 19mm and 17mm.
with these four points removed, up front, completely remove the cooling fan. Take it aside.
The two nuts the bottom top mounts at the radiator and the electrical connection. Remove both top radiator hoses, and be sure the system completely rocks back and forth.

At this point, you will be able to lift the entire assembly up over the frame section and open the radiator like a door to the left. I would support it some how, but some people will not.
You then have complete frontal access to the fan and front of engine. Now we put them on a rack, so I bring them up to standing height, but I have done them in the steam cleaning rack on the floor, a little harder, but still not that bad.

Have fun, enjoy! Richard:rad:
Thanks,

Swinging the radiator out of the way made the job so easy.

David
 

NorthLink

NorthLink
I'm wondering if I should replace my water pump?
When I turn on my auxillary heater/espar, and select the heat pump button (9 oclock on switch that also has the A/C button), I can smell antifreeze/coolant and then the window fogs up with a film of antifreeze.
I remember seeing something about a gasket kit for the espar heater, but I can't find the thread.
I'm at the point where I really need to be able to heat up the van full bore, but I'm not sure what to do. I guess I'll just bring it in to my mechanic (very trustworthy fellow), and say pull it apart and fix it - replace the water pump if necessary.
The van has 320K miles on it and it will get another 80-100 next year, so maybe I should just do it?
Thanks,
George

PS: What is the best place to get a water pump and/or gasket kit for the espar?
 

NorthLink

NorthLink
I found the link for the espar kit and will try that first.

New question: how common is a water pump replacement - how often to expect to replace? Or what should I look for as signs that I'd need a new one?

Thanks everyone
 

Dougflas

DAD OWNER
They leak frequently is my opinion. I drive 2 2005's and both leaked less than 100k miles. My personal van had 71k on it. The dealer said it was under the 100k warranty so I paid a deductible of $100. I couldn't buy the pump that cheap. The other was just a hair over 100k miles and the Sheriff's Office (my employer) was charged $575. total job.

My personal van took the technician 3 hrs. to do the replacement. I waited in the customer lounge for it.
 

Autophysn

New member
They leak frequently is my opinion. I drive 2 2005's and both leaked less than 100k miles. My personal van had 71k on it. The dealer said it was under the 100k warranty so I paid a deductible of $100. I couldn't buy the pump that cheap. The other was just a hair over 100k miles and the Sheriff's Office (my employer) was charged $575. total job.

My personal van took the technician 3 hrs. to do the replacement. I waited in the customer lounge for it.
Yeah, it is not that bad. I take an entire shift to do the job, but that is because I work for a fleet. Reliability is everything in my line of work, so everyhting gets replaced while I am in there.
So far, I have gotten over 100k miles on every pump I have done. They sure did not give you much room to work on the engine, LOL!

Anyway, Sounds like a great price to me.

Oh, one more thing. I am aware that the Sprinters will have a major cavatation issue if the coolant is not proper. It should be long life (some sort of a pink, orange, purple, etc color--Not green) and the levels should test out to a freeze protection of atleast -37degrees f, and nitrite ppm of around 1200.

I am not on here often, but seems like many people here are very knowledgable. Great forum for owners!!!!!:bow:
 

talkinghorse43

Well-known member
Oh, one more thing. I am aware that the Sprinters will have a major cavatation issue if the coolant is not proper. It should be long life (some sort of a pink, orange, purple, etc color--Not green) and the levels should test out to a freeze protection of atleast -37degrees f, and nitrite ppm of around 1200.
I noticed what could be cavitation damage (looked like some small grains had been picked out of the metal of the timing cover) the last time I changed the water pump on mine. It was on the suction side of the pump in a passage in the timing cover that seemed to be flowing from the vicinity of the oil cooler. The suction passage from the radiator looked new. Can't say the damage was severe, but it was concentrated on the corners of the casting in the damaged passage. I can say that the quality of the coolant I used (don't know about the OEM fill, that was a bluish green) has always been on spec G05 at the 50/50 concentration. But, I have never had it analyzed for nitrite content. Is there a vendor you can recommend for nitrite testing?
 

cahaak

New member
Well I finally replaced my water pump just over a week ago. It has been leaking ever since I got the van about 2 years ago and I just lived with adding new G05 and distilled water to it. Could be because the fan clutch was bad, but I think it got damaged slightly just after I got the van when it was totaled and they just didn't fix it. It started upping the appetite a while back and I had already gotten the water pump (Gates). So I just waited until the weather was warm enough to get it done in the driveway between baseball evaluations.

Here are a couple of pics of the old water pump - just about 50K of leakage will do this I guess.

Water pump 1 small.jpg

Water pump 2 small.jpg

Anyway, just a few add ons to the other posts.

Remove the fan and then remove the plastic radiator shroud, all you have to do there is unclip a couple of hoses and you can work it right out of the top, gives you a lot more room to work on.
After draining, remove the water pump with the outlet manifol completely intact.
I actually had the most trouble getting one of the hoses off the water pump outlet - the upper one. It just did not want to let go even with the clamp loosened and up the hose.
Swap the outlet manifold over to the new pump and reuse the gasket and tighten it completely with the pump out.
My major issue - I used the gasket that came with the new pump. It is a fiber board type of gasket. Well, I either got a fold in it or something because when I put the new pump back on the sucker leaked all over even after just refilling it (not even starting the engine). (I did not swear once, but it sure was frustrating).
So, drain and remove pump again. I had the old gasket and I took it in the house and cleaned it off real good. This gasket is coated metal and much stiffer. Use it and everything worked out just great.
I washed of the Serp. belt and the whole front of the engine where all the gunk was coated and collected. Nice and clean now.
Put the Serp. belt back on and the Aux AC belt and topped it off and fired it up. No leaks of any kind. I'm a happy camper now and the pump was $89 I think, we will see how long it lasts. I reused most of the old coolant and then topped off with new G05 and DI water. Checked the serp belt once I put it back on and it is running very smoothly, really no wiggle or jitter at all. It is running great and looking forward to a summer of kid hauling and camping.

Chris
 
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Ciprian

Spark Plugs not allowed!
I hope it lasts longer than my 2 aftermarket pumps did. Both of them lasted less than 20k before the seal started leaking (one of them was only 12k if I remember correctly) . The third one I bought at the dealer, been good for about 150k. Only OEM water pumps and belt tensionners for me. I had bad luck with an aftermarket tensionner also.
 

cahaak

New member
I'll definitely let you know how long it lasts. Hopefully a long time. Really should not be rocket science here, but who knows. At least I got a good learning experience out of this one and am comfortable changing it for the next time. Just hope it doesn't go 2K miles from home - although I do bring along all the extra fluids on my long trips.

Chris
 

NelsonSprinter

Former Nelson BC Sprinter
I'm wondering if I should replace my water pump?
When I turn on my auxillary heater/espar, and select the heat pump button (9 oclock on switch that also has the A/C button), I can smell antifreeze/coolant and then the window fogs up with a film of antifreeze.
Fogging and antifreeze smell are signs of a leaking interior heating system . not an outside pump. The hose to the heater condensor/rad fins or heat exchanger may be leaking inside.
 
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SRT

Hi-Miler
Today I began what will be a pretty big project - installing a new water pump, EGR, O2 sensor, idler and tensioner - and also having the turbo rebuilt on my '04 2500.

Some great info here! I already have the radiator loose, and have removed the turbo to drop it off at the rebuilder tomorrow.

Does anyone have any pics related to removing the fan from the water pump? I've removed them from my NCV3s before (I don't miss those pieces of junk) but the T1N appears to be a totally different setup.
 

220629

Well-known member
...
Does anyone have any pics related to removing the fan from the water pump? ...
No pictures, but I gave this description about 2/3 way down in the first post.

"Once the pump was out I used the 3/16" square shank screwdriver to wedge the pulley bolts and remove the 4 ea. CR-VT-30 screws. With screws out I held the old pump shaft down at about 6" height and dropped it on the cement to remove the pulley. Two drops and the pulley popped right off. Not elegant, but effective."

Have fun. vic
 

talkinghorse43

Well-known member
Today I began what will be a pretty big project - installing a new water pump, EGR, O2 sensor, idler and tensioner - and also having the turbo rebuilt on my '04 2500.

Some great info here! I already have the radiator loose, and have removed the turbo to drop it off at the rebuilder tomorrow.

Does anyone have any pics related to removing the fan from the water pump? I've removed them from my NCV3s before (I don't miss those pieces of junk) but the T1N appears to be a totally different setup.
Someone once offered tools for sale here to remove the fan. Search here using the tool in the blue bar above.
 

seans

Member
I need advice from those who have swung the radiator aside and disconnected the transmission cooler lines. (I'm just about to do this.)

When I detach the transmission cooler lines, should I expect no fluid to come out, to drip slightly, or drain quickly?

If I need to plug the lines, how fast do I need to work to plug them? Any suggestions as to what to plug them with?

(I recall having to do this on old Mustangs. I think the fluid stayed in the radiator, and if you shoved a pencil in each rubber transmission line, you'd be OK. But these are metal connectors, not tubes with hose clamps.)

Also: I don't plan to detach the metal lines at the radiator, but where the metal tubes from the radiator meet the rubber tubes (having read, I think, about cracked transmission cooler fittings at the radiator while searching.) Is this the correct approach?
 
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talkinghorse43

Well-known member
Search using the tool in the blue bar above for more info, but many who have attempted to do what you plan have found that those fittings (steel/aluminum) have "frozen" together over the years due to corrosion. A new radiator and new fittings is a common result. My personal opinion is to find another way to do what you're trying to do - usually are many more ways than one "to skin a cat".
 

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