Lure of the Dempster….Roadtrek-ing to Inuvik

Mein Sprinter said:

Thanks Andy.. will do..wooo you had lunch at the Inn... $$$$$ I suppose? Did you also drop by Trinity?

Did Twillingate 2 years ago but missed Fogo....

cheer...

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Actually lunch at the Inn was surprisingly reasonably priced, given that it costs around $700 a night to stay. They offer free tours of the place, but were fully booked when we were there. We had to see the place, so had lunch and were glad of it, and pleasantly surprised when we went to pay and learned service was included. i'm sure you will have read its remarkable story. The concept has been well received by the locals.

We did go to Trinity as well. We spent a month in NL, and it was not too long. We went in Sept., meaning we missed the icebergs, whales, and puffins, but we were there for the partridgeberries, and the Irish Reunion in Tilting (just past Joe Batts Arm). Whole other world.

Andy

First, Fogo, and all of NFLD are special places. The is a very interesting book on the history and architecture of Tilting on Fogo.

That said, if you dig a bit below the surface the local acceptance of the Inn is not universal. Yes, the principle has gone out of her way to hire locals at many levels including furniture builders, artist, craftspeople, as well as service folks. The flip side is that while her intention was to creat a local economy such locals didn't have to follow the age old tradition on The Rock of young people leaving. The net result however is mixed. Because of the influx of tourists, who view Fogo as cheap, the price of everything that locals need to survive has risen, especially housing, forcing the young to move. (not just due to the Inn however!)

I have a bit of insight on the Inn equation, (and Zita Cobb's creation of the artist studios that are scatter around the island, (The studios are IMHO really the kind of stimulant the island needed rather than than the Inn) because I know several of the principals ' and many relatives if the principal. There are a number of interesting articles about the changes to Fogo, in national publications like the Globe and Mail, The National Post, the NYTs. W-5 (a Canadian rough Eq of 60 minutes did a piece on Fogo and the impact of the changes which can be downloaded).

It will be interesting to see if Zita's vision work to save Fogo, or simply changes it to yet another tourist attraction of Faux culture, like Williamsburg, or the worse alterntive becoming a cheap attraction closer to Coney island. The latter not likely since Fogo is fundamentally very hard to gt there. Get to the island' then drive a couple hundred KM to Gander, another couple hundred to Farewell, then the ferry and you a there. (All on really small, lousy roads...and the ferry is old, slow and rustic. $700/night for the Inn may attract a certain clientele once for the novelty, but I don't think it is sustainable. Time will tell.

Icarus

icarus said:

First, Fogo, and all of NFLD are special places. The is a very interesting book on the history and architecture of Tilting on Fogo.

That said, if you dig a bit below the surface the local acceptance of the Inn is not universal. Yes, the principle has gone out of her way to hire locals at many levels including furniture builders, artist, craftspeople, as well as service folks. The flip side is that while her intention was to creat a local economy such locals didn't have to follow the age old tradition on The Rock of young people leaving. The net result however is mixed. Because of the influx of tourists, who view Fogo as cheap, the price of everything that locals need to survive has risen, especially housing, forcing the young to move. (not just due to the Inn however!)

I have a bit of insight on the Inn equation, (and Zita Cobb's creation of the artist studios that are scatter around the island, (The studios are IMHO really the kind of stimulant the island needed rather than than the Inn) because I know several of the principals ' and many relatives if the principal. There are a number of interesting articles about the changes to Fogo, in national publications like the Globe and Mail, The National Post, the NYTs. W-5 (a Canadian rough Eq of 60 minutes did a piece on Fogo and the impact of the changes which can be downloaded).

It will be interesting to see if Zita's vision work to save Fogo, or simply changes it to yet another tourist attraction of Faux culture, like Williamsburg, or the worse alterntive becoming a cheap attraction closer to Coney island. The latter not likely since Fogo is fundamentally very hard to gt there. Get to the island' then drive a couple hundred KM to Gander, another couple hundred to Farewell, then the ferry and you a there. (All on really small, lousy roads...and the ferry is old, slow and rustic. $700/night for the Inn may attract a certain clientele once for the novelty, but I don't think it is sustainable. Time will tell.

Icarus

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Very good analysis, Icarus.... you're right about yet another temporary "a la Disney" possible attraction that I am familiar with in many far away places visited that have gone ppfffffftt! Just hope that Fogo will prevail.

On my latest suspected ppfffftt list since our last re-visit are:

Hyder, AK
Dawson City, YK

cheers....

Thanks Icarus. My impression of support is based admittedly on pretty superficial "data", mostly chats with folks about the island. Sustainability is always the question. Thus far, I was told, they have exceeded the projected occupancy rate at the Inn. If they can keep the experience interesting, there are plenty of people who won't be put off by the rates, based on what i've seen at some similarly pricey "eco-resorts" in other similarly remote locales. I'm guessing that a Disneyland scenario will be a long time coming for the reasons stated. Just a simple matter of finding that balance between the right amount of economic stimulus and destroying what makes it so special for us tourists! Dealing with transition from a collapsed resource-based economy to one based on tourism is not a new story, and I suspect that the Inn and the studios will not be the last Fogo adventure. In the meantime, i await Elmer's 2015 impressions.

Cheers,
Andy

The reality of outport Newfoundland has changed dramatically in the last generation, and indeed Fogo has (up to very recently) has recsisted that change to a greater or lesser extent. In fact Fogo fought forced relocation under the Smallwood government in an attempt to presce thier way of life. The problem was no one (in the 1950s-60s) foresaw the complete collapse of the cod fishery that had sustain outport Newfoundland for 400 years. With out an sustain able inshore fishery even more people had to leave the island (NFLD) than ever before. There has always been an out migration as only so many could go fishing. Some went to sea, others to New England, and later to Toronto and finally to the oil patch (both Alberta and the off shore).

Nowadays much of Newfoundland is a sort of inverted economy. There are few children of school age because so many parents have left to go find work other places, there're are few yang families for the same reasons, but there are many pensioners who have returned "home" to retire.

So th social cost is staggeringly high. Between large remote distances between communities making base line costs high, factor in the per pupil school cost is very high because the re so few students in any given community, and then the long term health care costs of an ging population, couple with few workers supporting the local tax base and you have a recipe for economic and political chaos. Mercifully they have had benefit of the off shore oil in the last generation' and have handled it reasonably well. (oil revenue is often more of a curse than a blessing IMHO). Tourism takes up some of the slack, but the bottom line is for the averqge tourist, The Rock is very hard (and expensive) to get to. 6-12 hour ferry under nice conditions, days it it is nasty. And that is after getting to the tip of the continent either in Sydney NS, or driving the Trans Labrador road.

For my tastes, may it stay forever untouched and undesired as a tourist destination, since barrens, lack of folks, lack of "comes from aways" suits me just fine, bye!

Icarus

tinman said:

Thanks Icarus. My impression of support is based admittedly on pretty superficial "data", mostly chats with folks about the island. Sustainability is always the question. Thus far, I was told, they have exceeded the projected occupancy rate at the Inn. If they can keep the experience interesting, there are plenty of people who won't be put off by the rates, based on what i've seen at some similarly pricey "eco-resorts" in other similarly remote locales. I'm guessing that a Disneyland scenario will be a long time coming for the reasons stated. Just a simple matter of finding that balance between the right amount of economic stimulus and destroying what makes it so special for us tourists! Dealing with transition from a collapsed resource-based economy to one based on tourism is not a new story, and I suspect that the Inn and the studios will not be the last Fogo adventure. In the meantime, i await Elmer's 2015 impressions.

Cheers,
Andy

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Hola Andy.... ... hope to get up there in time before it's like you said too "Disney-ized". As for the "Inn".. they cater to the $$$$$...an escape for them from the high stress world of finances, politics, etc...before you know it they will seek refuge elsewhere as Fogo is becoming too crowded?


There is Twillingate:





Twillingate..on the far left coast of Fogo which has been explored by us in our VW Eurovan was a jewel, nothing grotesque been developed there yet!. Lobsters still plentiful and at a good price...fishing fleet doing OK...mostly for the Asian market.... the same can be said with the Northern coastal port of Harrington Harbor...along the St. Lawrence river which you guys must visit(dunno they can fit a Sprinter onto/into one of these) .

Harrington Harbour...







So why hasn't Fogo gone into doing what Twillingate and Harrington Harbour did cater to the Asian markets !... ??.

cheers....

icarus said:

The reality of outport Newfoundland has changed dramatically in the last generation, and indeed Fogo has (up to very recently) has recsisted that change to a greater or lesser extent. In fact Fogo fought forced relocation under the Smallwood government in an attempt to presce thier way of life. The problem was no one (in the 1950s-60s) foresaw the complete collapse of the cod fishery that had sustain outport Newfoundland for 400 years. With out an sustain able inshore fishery even more people had to leave the island (NFLD) than ever before. There has always been an out migration as only so many could go fishing. Some went to sea, others to New England, and later to Toronto and finally to the oil patch (both Alberta and the off shore).

Nowadays much of Newfoundland is a sort of inverted economy. There are few children of school age because so many parents have left to go find work other places, there're are few yang families for the same reasons, but there are many pensioners who have returned "home" to retire.

So th social cost is staggeringly high. Between large remote distances between communities making base line costs high, factor in the per pupil school cost is very high because the re so few students in any given community, and then the long term health care costs of an ging population, couple with few workers supporting the local tax base and you have a recipe for economic and political chaos. Mercifully they have had benefit of the off shore oil in the last generation' and have handled it reasonably well. (oil revenue is often more of a curse than a blessing IMHO). Tourism takes up some of the slack, but the bottom line is for the averqge tourist, The Rock is very hard (and expensive) to get to. 6-12 hour ferry under nice conditions, days it it is nasty. And that is after getting to the tip of the continent either in Sydney NS, or driving the Trans Labrador road.

For my tastes, may it stay forever untouched and undesired as a tourist destination, since barrens, lack of folks, lack of "comes from aways" suits me just fine, bye!

Icarus

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cheers....

Once again, th are only so many fish to go around, Turbot included. Canada has been engaged in a Fish war with the UK, Ireland and Spain over Turbot catch for years.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbot_War

Bottom line, we learned little from the collapse of the cod fishery, and we know very little about the true Eco systems and life cycles of ocean fish, and as long as we allow mass harvests, we will eventually run out. Talk to very many salt water fisheries biologists, and they may tell you that in a generation, wild caught sea food will be a thing of the past, except in very small quantities, like true Atlantic cod is now.

Fishermen are like loggers. They will fish to the last fish, log to the last stump, because, "it is what we do". Communities then collapse with the fishery (or the forest products economy!)

Icarus

"Fishermen are like loggers. They will fish to the last fish, log to the last stump, because, "it is what we do"...Kinda like the oil&gas frackers too. Destroying the environment for short term greed. Although in most cases the incentive comes mainly from the top. That 1% we're all living to support.
Bill
NYC~

Pumpkinass said:

"Fishermen are like loggers. They will fish to the last fish, log to the last stump, because, "it is what we do"...Kinda like the oil&gas frackers too. Destroying the environment for short term greed. Although in most cases the incentive comes mainly from the top. That 1% we're all living to support.
Bill
NYC~

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Wonder who eats the fish, builds homes with the logs and who uses the gas/oil? Are those bad guys also the 1%? We all need to look in the mirror before we blame the 1%. If we all stopped eating fish, building homes and froze/parked our cars there would be lots of fish, no tree cutting and no oil/gas production. Sorry - we are the problem not the 1%.

Well..There's many ways to look at the situation.
I agree with we are all the problem which includes all 100%.
Maybe..we should stop eating as much fish and emphasize less detrimental ways to fish other than dredging the oceans with mile long nets. There should be more fish breeding area sanctuaries too.
Building homes can easily be built and run more efficiently as well.
Ever heard of electric cars? They do run mostly off fossil fuel use but are much more efficient than gas/diesal. Mercedes is coming out with prototypes for Sprinters and larger vehicles as well. Wish my 2016 Serenity was one of them.
Sorry if you don't like my rhetoric about the 1%..but they do..through lobbyist monies control and sway our government and it's laws and how they affect us. That's a fact.
That monied power sways and controls our lives and how we live. Look how long it's taken to educate the populace about the seemingly irreversible effect 'we' humans are having on the health of the planet. The Koch Bros, Monsanto, Bayer, Big Oil, big pharma, ect..the 1%.. spend/have spent billions on influencing where we get our fish, our wood, our fuels and are keeping us from changing the status quo.
We need better education/incentives of how to live our lives with less environmental impact..to the masses about the plight of our planet.

We are digressing a bit. There is enough blame to go around, 1% and the 99%.

What I was really trying to highlight was the fundmental lack of understnding when it comes to the oceans, and what we are taking out, how we are taking it out, and perhaps more importantly what we are puttin into them as well. (see also ocean acidification due to increased CO2/greenhouse gases/climate change/toxics, plastics, etc!)

The fact is we have at some level, too many mouths to feed on the planet, and we need the protein that the sea gives us even unsustainably. The smart answer would be to better understand the eco system, and plan accordingly. Like for instance don't eat farm raised salmon that costs more in fish meal from Chile than the salmon give, all the while depleting the stock...it makes no sense.

Icarus

Also the farmed fish are administered antibiotics and other meds to keep the healthy and the fish meal is generally made from processed fishes bones and offal added with Monsantos insecticide laden corn. All in all a not soo nice cocktail which migrates along through the fish into the fish eater.
Digressing??. Oh yeah..I first got on this wagon to follow and marvel at the adventures of a nice NC couple in a Sprinter on their way up to some gravely dusty dirty chunk of road and ice

Pumpkinass said:

Well..There's many ways to look at the situation.
I agree with we are all the problem which includes all 100%.
Maybe..we should stop eating as much fish and emphasize less detrimental ways to fish other than dredging the oceans with mile long nets. There should be more fish breeding area sanctuaries too.
Building homes can easily be built and run more efficiently as well.
Ever heard of electric cars? They do run mostly off fossil fuel use but are much more efficient than gas/diesal. Mercedes is coming out with prototypes for Sprinters and larger vehicles as well. Wish my 2016 Serenity was one of them.
Sorry if you don't like my rhetoric about the 1%..but they do..through lobbyist monies control and sway our government and it's laws and how they affect us. That's a fact.
That monied power sways and controls our lives and how we live. Look how long it's taken to educate the populace about the seemingly irreversible effect 'we' humans are having on the health of the planet. The Koch Bros, Monsanto, Bayer, Big Oil, big pharma, ect..the 1%.. spend/have spent billions on influencing where we get our fish, our wood, our fuels and are keeping us from changing the status quo.
We need better education/incentives of how to live our lives with less environmental impact..to the masses about the plight of our planet.

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We agree more than you would think. I just think blaming the 1% is not the answer. We the people are the answer if we want to change the direction we are headed. All 100% of us.

Fully agree about controlling the fishing areas to maintain the fish population.
I designed and live in a very efficient passive solar house. It is amazing how well a simple stick built house can work. The sun is your friend. Less than $1,000/year for utilities. No fuel required on sunny days and no air conditioning. We do live in a mild climate.
Electric cars. Great if batteries are charged by solar power. Not so great if power comes from a coal burning power plant.
Agree fully about the sorry state of our government. It is controlled by money. I consider all elected officials to be crooks. Money buys the votes and governmental gifts help sustain it.
Again it is easy to name the 1%, but most all corporations are owned by small stock holders like you and I and grandma down the street. Their profits are distributed to the investors. Is there corruption and excessive pay to the officers of the corporation? Certainly.
Only you and I can change the status quo. We are the problem. Should we be driving Sprinters? Most of us should not if we cared about the planet. Hard to educate people.
Try bringing up the subject of birth control. Not a politically viable subject. People cause damage to the environment. The more people the more damage. Sure you can play around the edges and dictate 20% more vehicle fuel economy or similar measures. That fine except when you have 30% more drivers the net is not pretty.

GDP,

Just to digress even further...I too live in a passive solar house, and have no utility bill at all with PV etc. As for electric vehicles, the equation is very complicated, but the simple fact is that electric motor powered vehicles have huge advantages in efficiency (and emissions) regardless of fuel source, simply because electric motors are very much more thermally efficient than ICEs. Add to that the ability to recapture energy through coasting and braking and the advantage only gets larger.

Finally, plug in electric vehicles can (and do) serve as a large disaggregated battery bank for wind and solar, with the ability to both by and sell to the grid, buying at times of peak production and selling at times of peak demand, reducing the idle spinning capacity of the grid, saving fuel, and emissions. A carefully designed charge/sell stategy is very much a winning stategy both for owners as well as utilities.

Yes, coal fired power for vehicles Is the bottom of the barrel, but it may not be as bad as simple ICE engines for transport. Yes, batteries have an environmental cost, but much of that can BR reused and recycled, making that environmental cost quite small, especially compared to fossil fuel.

Just a thought,

Icarus

I want an electric Mercedes Sprinter for my 2016 Serenity but doubt that that will be an option.

OK, Amigos I(we) hear you....

Let's (us) not dimish this picturesque travelogue any further with the why's and wherefores of the worlds human ills instead look this in the eye:





cheers....

I apologize for adding to the hijacking of your tread. Just hard to keep quiet on the subject.

Graphite Dave said:

I apologize for adding to the hijacking of your tread. Just hard to keep quiet on the subject.

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Oh, Hi Dave....no apology needed..I sometimes get carried away too . All the best in your travels. As the season winds down (slowly cooling) here I am hard on the interior conversion or even strip her interior to our exact simple needs.... Time will tell..

cheers...

Graphite Dave said:

Wonder who eats the fish, builds homes with the logs and who uses the gas/oil? Are those bad guys also the 1%? We all need to look in the mirror before we blame the 1%. If we all stopped eating fish, building homes and froze/parked our cars there would be lots of fish, no tree cutting and no oil/gas production. Sorry - we are the problem not the 1%.

Click to expand...

Gary Snyder observed that every time there has been a "natural resource" to extract, those interested in making money from it tell the rest of us "you can trust us, we will protect the land, we will protect the resource, our interests are the same as yours". Then time and time again, they screw it all to hell, and move on.

You can blame "us" for the demand for energy, materials and so forth. But you can't blame "us" for the way in which natural resources are managed and utilized and extracted.