313 CDI seroius injector seal leak

Hi there,
I was on a return trip when a deep chuffing sound started from the engine. At first I thought it was a exhaust gasket but after pulling over I could see that it was a fair bit worse than that.
Had the Sprinter towed to my mechanic. While I waited to hear from my mechanic I started researching here.Found the articles on Black Death and crossed my fingers that I didn't have it.
Got the call from my mechanic, giving me the bad news. Then it got a little worse. He hadn't seen anything like it before and insisted the only way to fix the problem was to replace the motor at 8K plus. His second suggestion was sell it as scrap, also not going to happen.
So here I am, just started to assessing and cleaning the soot/coke or what ever it is. Optimistically thinking that all can be fixed.
Here are some images from yesterday and today's effort
I have found removing the crud is not as difficult as I was expecting. Managed to chip about 2 metric cups of soot, which is the majority of the crud. Have now begun to soak the injector plugs with solvent for the next week.
I would like to hear peoples comments on what they think is the best type of injector extractor, slide hammer or screw extractor. Attachment that screws into the top of the injector or has a hook that pulls from below the fuel feed inlet. Basically any suggestions of what I should be doing and probably what I've done wrong would be greatly appreciated.
I will keep posting images and comments of my progress and more than likely questions as to best way to proceed.

Also a short vid of the problem http://youtu.be/hOVypeJRccg

cheers,
n

Hi there

My deepest sympathies, I had the same problem and in my ignorance mine had gone undetected for much longer. Mine was a long saga and the garage did the repair, so I'm afraid I can't help you with advice about specific injector pullers, but there lots of threads on this forum if you do the search which tell you exactly what you might need to use.

Things I do know that you probably know already....
1. Oven cleaner is very good at removing the black gunk
2. Once the injector or injectors are removed, obviously they need to be cleaned up, but I would also have them tested at a specialist. I had problems with 2 injectors that were put back in after the clean up, resulting in more roadside problems and expense
3. My problem resulted in corrosion and failure of the head itself, which had to be replaced. Hopefully yours won't.
4. When the injectors are re-installed you must use new hold down bolts and washers, and the torque is quite specific (again there are threads on this forum to help)

I really hope you have caught yours early enough to avoid head replacement. If you haven't I would recommend a new head as opposed to a re-conditioned one. I went for the cheaper re-conditioned (which had supposedly been pressure tested) and it failed immediately, necessitating removal and re-installation of a new one. As you can imagine that all cost quite a bit of money. Lessons learned and all that...

Very best of luck and sorry I haven't been able to give you specific tech advice, but as I say it's all here on the forum if you search, Mike

The slide hammer type puller with claw is worth trying because the injector doesn't need any disassembly for it to attach. Unfortunately I didn't have much luck with that tool pulling my stuck injectors, so it may not work in your case.

The screw type puller is very effective, but the injector needs to come apart for it to attach. There have been some who have successfully disassembled and re-assembled injectors. Personally I would recommend replacing any injectors which are disassembled.

It is best to have the engine hot before trying to remove an injector.

An opinion. I'd take the above to the extreme of removing one injector, re-assembling that one to get running for re-heat, then next, etc. The engine being hot really helps.

Good luck. vic

Some info is here if you missed it.
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16068

I had two recently roll into the shop, plus I bought a take out engine on Fleabay as a fixer upper for re-sale all exhibiting the very same problem, all five stuck in the head.
Yours for sure is a "super duper" example!
Except one of my challenges was that two injector bolts had been sheered off before I got to it and glued back with JB weld!

Yes as mentioned I do use oven cleaner to remove the majority of the carbon deposits and take care to get all that carbon off the sockets but sockets and pin connectors are available from dealer source for a few bucks. The best stuff for cleaning carbon & penetrating the plugs is Liqimoly is literally dissolves the carbon and use I suppose an old tooth brush for that!

Now getting the injectors out as Vic has mentioned is a tedious process. Since I charge customers do this I have a plan of NO MORE than 1 hour to lift the injector by conventional means.
That is soak the area in Liquimoly with the engine hot and carefully remove the clamps and bolts.
If you sheer a bolt off --its almost a given the head has to come off!
Try a slide hammer approach quickly on all injectors--sometimes some side to side force rotation around the injector pipe casting plus some prying might and I state "might" budge them.
If that "no workee" Plan B comes into force.
Take the top off the injector install the puller and try pulling!
I have broken three such pullers this year alone so don't get too confident!
If it won't budge then employ African mechanic techniques "Bring fire mister" in the order of a #5 tip on the oxy bottles get it nice and hot concentrating the heat on the injector body not the head of course. That has a good success record in my shop; wrecks the injector of course at $300 a pop but it comes out.
Use gun barrel brushes to clean out the tube & seat using the Liquimoly as a dispersant and carburetor cleaner as a finish. Crank the engine when you are done to clear the cylinders.

If it (they) still won't budge (like two engine I had) then you have to get drastic and that
means remove the bolts from the valve cover plus the breather arr' and bust it off and out. A new cover is around $135. At that stage I simply lift the head off, injectors, glow plugs and all, then cart it off to a specialist and have them spark erode the injector(s) out.
Then overhaul the head with a valve job and rework it back to how it should be! Looking like new!
But you don't need new engine and in most cases nor a head.
Can all end up being expensive but sometimes luck and a few techniques you won't find in the factory nor on youtube will get them out.
Not Easy!
But if it was everyone would be doing it!
Best of luck
Dennis

thank you,
all who replied.
I've had a good look at the posts already made, its been invaliable. One question I have regarding the stretch bolt. Is there a preferred technique to getting it moving. Would it be a bad idea to use a hammer driven impact driver or is it softly softly on this bolt? Fortunately I'm not needing to rush the repair as the sprinter is no longer a work vehicle, just a tow hack for my boat.
Thanks again for the feedback. Cant say it makes me feel more confident but it is good to know how serious things could get.

nicholas

softly softly for removal on clamp bolt , personally i would use as small a socket & T-bar as you own , 3/8th or better still 1/4" drive and rock the bolt backwards & forwards as this will break away any junk gripping the threads & awork any lube around there down the threads as well .

When you do refit the injectors use FEBI ceramic grease to coat the injector body ,not cheap stuff but way cheaper than broken /wreaked injectors / scrapped head Etc.

Good luck

thanks Dingo,
softly softly it is.

n

NMC said:

thank you,
all who replied.
I've had a good look at the posts already made, its been invaliable. One question I have regarding the stretch bolt. Is there a preferred technique to getting it moving. Would it be a bad idea to use a hammer driven impact driver or is it softly softly on this bolt? Fortunately I'm not needing to rush the repair as the sprinter is no longer a work vehicle, just a tow hack for my boat.
Thanks again for the feedback. Cant say it makes me feel more confident but it is good to know how serious things could get.

nicholas

Click to expand...

Not that he needs my support, but I agree with Dingo.

No hammer impact for me. One thing that I did was to use a pin punch set into the star recess to give each bolt a few reasonable raps with a hammer. My theory is that it may help to break things loose a bit. I don't see any downside to doing it.

The ceramic grease does seem to be good stuff. Many people have mentioned using it for many other applications also.

Please keep us informed of your progress. vic

Hello
Im having the same problem at the moment.

If your injectors were as near as stuck as mine i would reccomend nothing less than calling a local injector puller who has the hydraulic type puller to remove them for you.

There is a good chance that if your black death is pretty bad the lower end slide hammers or pullers wont even be upto the job.

Same goes for you napster use the FEBI ceramic grease when you refit the injectors , it will stop any bonding or almost stop the chances of injectors sticking in their bores

If i remember correctly Europarts are Febi Bilstein agents & should have no problem ordering the ceramic wonder juice for you

For those in the know , you no longer use copper grease on brake pads as anti squeal paste as it can affect ABS sensors , wiser people use molybdenum grease , the guru's use ceramic grease

Good idea Napter, I'll have a look around. In sydney I've had trouble getting a mechanic nearby to where I live. Most of the shops turn you away with the excuse that they can't put it on the hoist because there roofs a too low, etc, etc.

n

HI Dennis, can you tell me which Liqimoly product you use to clean up the black stuff.
DIESEL CLEAN & BOOST | 2769
DIESEL PURGE PLUS | 2790
RAPID BRAKE & PARTS CLEANER | 2797

above are the products that I have found in Australia, I'm assuming of course that the names are not changed depending on the country they are sold in.

cheers,
n

how do I identify the part number for my injectors. The motor is a OM611 313CDI motor.
Thank you,
n

Did you get any out yet - the part number is stamped into the body and is the surest way to get it right.

I think the Bosch part number is :- 0445110189 this injector is fitted to 311 / 313 / 315 for the 2.2CDi motor . hope its the answer you need

you can get new plugs for the wiring from merc dealer ,always use new bolts and get the thread spotless or bolts will snap or work loose very quick,we find its a good job for the apprentice spending a few hours chipping away at the blackstuff with small screwdrivers and picks

Thanks guys,
Yep injectors are out. Had a guy do this for me as he had a fancy hydraulic extraction contraption. Number 3 hold down bolt was a nightmare as it was a larger bolt that was cross threaded into the 6 mm threaded hole. Having this repaired by another specialist guy through my extractor guy. All turning out rather expensive but 4 new injectors are needed as the old ones are pretty messed up.

lindenengineering said:

Liqimoly

Click to expand...

Which Liqimoly product do you use?

Luiqimoly

"strong medicine for sick diesels works well PT# 2005 you can get it from Carquest & World Pac.

Then there's BG products.
Their throttle body intake cleaner in a spray can is pretty effective, so is "109" soot buster in a qrt bottle. Be careful with this stuff, read "nasty chemicals" use eye and hand protection.

In fact the "109" I often use for dissolved carbon choked DPF's with great success, good on EGR coolers too!
Best of luck with the job.
Dennis

Great, thanks for the info