Door lock issue

techie1961

New member
I know that there has been a lot of discussion on door locks. I still can't figure them out. The issue that I am having is that I can't seem to lock the doors. If I hit the lock button on the remote, it locks then unlocks. If I hit it again, I can get the doors to lock.

The problem seems to be with the rear doors. The right light on the central lock button flashes. I took the rear door panel off and can't see anything wrong. I know that it is still under warranty but I can't afford to have the truck in the shop. I need it every day for work as I own my own company.

Is there something that I can check at the rear doors? I checked the contact pads but I don't know what the meter readings should be at the pads or the plunger pins.

I did get a couple of responses from the forum that I posted in originally (T1N Database) but I reposted here.
 

poiuytrewq

New member
if any 1 or more doors are open when you push the lock button on the remote the closed doors will lock and unlock-the marker lights will not flash(indicating all locked). I believe the steel contacts in the door jams indicate to the computer that the door is closed- if your doors are not aligned properly, or the contacts are dirty(some type of poor connection\)the computer thinks the door is open and will not indicate all is locked and will again unlock all with no flashing marker light. I have to push my rear doors from time to time to make a good connection, and to lock all the doors.
 

BKHomes

New member
You should check all contacts including the ones on the side door. I can't recall if there are 2 sets of three or 1 set of three on that door??Where they are located is a little out of the way, so you may not even know they are there. I too had similar problems and finally figured out it was the rear connectors. My problem ended up being the plunger pin assemblies (Black "D" shaped things) were not seated properly in the door. I bought my van used and the rear doors were dented up a bit. I noticed that one of my plunger assemblies (left door) was not resting flush against the door. This actually caused the lower pin in that assembly to not make good contact. The result of this, was my license plate lights did not turn on. The fix for this required me to gently bend the metal where the plunger seats (I being a caveman, used a flathead screwdriver and a putty knife). On the right door, my van has two sets of the plunger pins. One of those assemblies was loose. I took it out of the door and noticed that two of the silver retaining clips (they are what hold the plunger assemblies in the door) had fallen off. After retrieving the clips from the inside of the door, I re-installed them, bent them outwards slightly so the would put more tension against the door. Also, make sure when you push the retainer clips in you ensure they are all the way in. Otherwise, they will fall out again. I used a jewlers screwdriver (flathead) and pushed pretty hard. This was best done with the entire plunger assembly out of the van. Voila! problem solved. Door locks work perfectly now. Flashing arrows are non-existent unless I leave the door open!
 

techie1961

New member
Tomorrow, I am going to have another look at them to see if I can see anything going on. The issue seems to be with the rear doors as I have to lock them manually each time. The ritual has become, hit the remote lock, wait for it to lock and unlock, hit the remote again and then go and manually lock the back door. The back door won't lock or unlock with the system.

On the back door, there are two sets of pads on the right rear door and one pad on the left rear door. All of them have three pins each. If I could figure out the pinouts, it might help me along. I suspect that some contacts are for the defroster and some are for the lock on the right door. I also noticed that some of the doors seem to use black plungers that are merely switches.

So far though, I have tried some fine abrasive work on the pads and pins (fine steel wool) and general inspection with the door panels removed. All of the doors are undamaged (had the van since new) but there has been the ocassional copper tube that got into the door jam near the right door pads.
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
There are four contacts involved with the rear door lock, and you can determine which is which by the wire color in the body (the in-door colors may match, but the manual isn't clear on that).
From the 2004 Service manual: The contact which goes directly to one side of the lock motor is Blue with a Red stripe. It's also the "lock" driver.
(i assume that means it's taken to +12v for the "lock" function.)
The "unlock" driver is Black with a Red stripe, and ties to one side of the "door ajar" switch, where it's directly tied to the other side of the motor.
The above two wires also run to all of the -other- "non-driver's" doors, to drive their locking motors.

The "wiper" of the "door ajar" switch feeds to the wiper of the "locked/unlocked" -sensing switch.
One side of that switch goes through a door contact to become a Yellow wire with a White stripe ("lock sense"),
the other side of that switch goes to become a Dark Green with Black stripe wire ("unlock sense").
Which -contact buttons- are used for those last two is swapped between Wagon and Cargo models,
but the functions follow the wire colors.

good luck
--dick
 

mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
...The back door won't lock or unlock with the system
...but there has been the ocassional copper tube that got into the door jam near the right door pads.
If the pins and contacts meet correctly it has to be either a solenoid, a cable problem or a wiring problem.

If cable related it will be quickly apparent with the door card off. It could just be that the plastic retainer on one end has broken. Not sure this is the problem though, as locking/unlocking is through direct contact of solenoid and mechanism.

Can you hear the solenoid at all? The actuator will still usually move a little even if knick-knacked. A free way to check would be to compare the range of movement with a known working one, i.e. a mate's. If you need to order one, you don't need to order the complete mechanism with solenoid as shown on the parts system diagram.

Central locking problems are rarely wiring related, unless someone's been messing, a cable has been damaged or connection off.
 
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techie1961

New member
Problem found. Thanks very much guys.

The pins weren't meeting up with the contact plates. I had thought that they were because there are marks on them where they rub but it was just barely. When I went in the truck and closed the doors (not easy with a full work truck) I could see that the travel of the pins isn't even close to moving. The pins just touch.

Is there an adjustment on the hinges? I need to get that door closer to the right of the truck so that there is positive contact. I can see that there are three torx screws in ech but don't want to break them open. This Sprinter is rusting bad enough without disturbing more paint.
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
If the doors are closing properly, you might not want to move them apart.

I'd be severely tempted to try to either shim the contact pads or the button set up from the sheet metal
(but i'll bet that they're held in by simple snap-fingers, so shimming is difficult).
I'd also be tempted to add a drop of solder to make the pins higher/longer, but you'd have to be -very- careful not to melt the plastic.

Got a tiny drill? (think "Dremel") Put a small hole and a 0-80 brass screw into the top of the buttons?
 
I had the same issue on my 2006 Sprinter. I shimmed the upper contacts that are mounted on the right side of the rear of the van, not the ones on the door, for they were not meeting at all. I shimmed them about an eight of an inch and the rear lock works every time. Good Luck.

Den
 

leroy

New member
Maybe this has been discussed in another thread, but I cannot find any reference to the rear latch cable. So here goes...

For some time my 2004 will not lock the rear doors. All of the other locks engage. I cannot lock the rear even with a key. Today I took the panel off the right rear to expose the mechanism. After some hours of continual disassembly and reassembly, I determined that the culprit is the cable that runs between the interior back door latch and the locking mechanism. If I remove the cable, the lock works as it should, by the key fob button and the key itself. If I install the cable and let the interior latch assembly just hang with the cable from the locking mechanism, it still works correctly. If I then reconnect the interior latch to the door, the lock will no longer will actuate.

It appears that the cable is about 1/2 inch too long. There is a compression curve in the cable when everything is assembled and this appears to inhibit the locking mechanism. The cable is relatively stiff and there is no way to adjust the length. I have checked carefully for any sign of deformation or change in the interior latch or locking mechanism that might explain the apparent misfit of the cable, but I can see nothing that would account for it. It appears to be a design flaw that eventually caused the lock to fail to engage. I do not understand how it does that, because the mechanics are not visible when it is in operation. However, I am confident that if I can shorten the cable, I can make it work. This maybe easier said than done. I will tackle it tomorrow. If anyone has an easy fix for this, please post.
 

220629

Well-known member
...
However, I am confident that if I can shorten the cable, I can make it work. This maybe easier said than done. I will tackle it tomorrow. If anyone has an easy fix for this, please post.
I have not seen the cable you describe. Rather than shorten the cable is there a way to lengthen the sheath? Perhaps a piece of copper or other tubing (an electrical butt connector?) slit down the side placed over the cable near the end and then formed (carefully crushed?) back around the cable to butt against the sheath end and make up the space? Or maybe a tightly wound coil of baling wire to make a sheath followed by tape? As I said, I haven't seen the cable so I'm just guessin' here. Have fun. vic
 

mendonsy

Member
I have not seen it either so this is also a guess. It seems that if it worked for years it is not really a design issue. It is more likely to be corrosion due to moisture and not much use (rust for lack of a better term).
Try to work some oil into the cable. Hold it vertically and drop some oil into the top of the sheath then work the inner cable in and out. Repeat this several times.
It may not solve your problem, but it can't hurt.
I have to do this a couple times a year with the throttle cable on my lawnmower.
 

leroy

New member
The cable is pristine, no corrosion, no resistance in the sheath. When everything is installed, the cable has a bow in it and the sheath is under stiff compression. This appears to deliver an unnecessary torque to the locking mechanism, which could be eliminated if the cable were shortened. So trying to lengthen the sheath would make things worse. I beleve both the cable and sheath are too long, or I could carve a gap into the sheath to relieve the pressure exerted on the lock.

I know this sounds crazy. But I have extensively experimented with this with multiple re-installations over hours eliminating all the variables. The lock works only when the cable compression is relieved. If I could mount the interior latch 1/2 inch further away from the lock, everything would work fine. But the mounting threads are welded to the inside of the door, so that wouldn't work.

This may be a possibility: A design flaw in the cable results in a torque of the cable attachment on the locking mechanism. This torque or unwanted force is not enough to cause the mechanism to fail, initially. Over the years, wear in the electrical contacts in the door frame, resistance in the wires, age in the solenoid, etc., diminish the ability of the solenoid to throw the lock.

If I am holding the lock in my hand and actuate the key fob, it works fine. If I mount the lock in the door, it works fine. If I connect the cable to the lock, it works fine. If I attach the interior door latch to the cable, it works fine. If I mount the interior latch to the door, putting the cable into compression, the locking mechanism fails.

I am going to try one more time to inspect and clean all electrical connections. If that fails, I am going to construct a shorter cable. Gotta get this thing back on the road.
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
There's always the possibility that you have a mis-manufactured cable.
Comparing its length to a "known good" cable might lend some insight.
For some time my 2004 will not lock the rear doors
Did it ever work properly?

good luck
--dick
 

whitedog

New member
So can you tell me if I have this right: If i push the button to lock the doors, they lock, then unlock. If I push it again, they lock, unlock, then lock again. This is a sign that the confuser sees a door as open and it's most likely that there is a bad contact on the rear door? At this point I need to take some 000 steel wool to the plates, then make sure that the pins are actually compressing.
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
So can you tell me if I have this right: If i push the button to lock the doors, they lock, then unlock. If I push it again, they lock, unlock, then lock again. This is a sign that the confuser sees a door as open
Correct.

There are also switches *inside* the door lock motor units that tells them if it's fully locked.
If one of those was faulty, it would also confuse things (i.e. cause the lock/unlock cycle to alert you that a door (somewhere) wasn't fully locked)

--dick
 

whitedog

New member
Correct.

There are also switches *inside* the door lock motor units that tells them if it's fully locked.
If one of those was faulty, it would also confuse things (i.e. cause the lock/unlock cycle to alert you that a door (somewhere) wasn't fully locked)

--dick
Thanks Dick. Something I noticed today as I was closing up the wheelchair ramp is that there is no lock on the slider door. I am guessing that this is why the locks act as they do. Since there is no signal from that switch, it thinks the door is unlocked. I wonder if a dog could find the right wires and connect them. Or will this cause other troubles?
 

sinster

New member
Dick, do you mean that there are switches inside the black plastic actuator motor unit or are you referring to the switches that are on the same wire harness as the door lock actuator which fit into the lock mechanism and tell the logic board that the door is locked?
http://europarts-sd.com/images/products/g8/0018003475_large.jpg

I ask because I am having the same problem as others with the lock-unlock-lock issue. When all my doors are closed, the indicators on the dash are all off, so it would appear that the logic board doesn't think the doors are ajar, but when I attempt to lock the vehicle, that is when the lock-unlock-lock cycle occurs and the indicator blinks on the right side.

I just wish there were a way to narrow it down to which one it is, since the actuators are quite pricey.

http://europarts-sd.com/item.asp?PID=2046
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
do you mean that there are switches inside the black plastic actuator motor unit or are you referring to the switches that are on the same wire harness as the door lock actuator which fit into the lock mechanism and tell the logic board that the door is locked?
The latter Both (i think).
My comment was made based upon the wiring diagrams, which show two switches associated with the solenoid:
One is "inside" the dashed box containing the motor, and the other is a separate dashed box, but included within the solid-lined rectangle.
See the following figures. Based upon your photo (i think that's the slider's lock, item 22 here, Dodge part 05103756AA (see footnote)), i'd guess that the little thing off to the right in the photo is that 2nd switch.
(further confusing things is that the schematic shows those two in-line connectors like the photo. The schematic shows the slider/rear doors as wiring directly to the spring-loaded edge pins, no intervening connectors)

DoorLockSliderSolenoid.jpg

Absent other information (i haven't torn mine apart... they're still working (i hope)), i can't tell if the 1st switch is inside the solenoid or not.. but i think it is.
The diagrams and the logic seem a bit convoluted/confusing... the "sense" inputs let the Central Timer Module know that an action has happened (as well as the current state). For "happily locked" it's not willing to accept the ambiguous state of "not fully unlocked, but not locked yet, either".
Note how the contacts on the edges of the slider and rear doors form part of the "unlocked" (and not locked) sensing.
The way the wiring is drawn between the solenoid and the 2nd switch appears slightly different between the doors, but it's really the same (one side of the motor directly attached to the 2nd switch's not-normally-closed (i.e. ajar) stationary contact.. the door has to be NOT ajar for the solenoid "motor" to fire.)

Driver's side:
70DriverDoor.GIF

Passenger Side Front:
70PassengerDoor.GIF

Rear Door:
70RightRearDoor.GIF

Sliding door:
70RightSliderDoor.GIF

--dick
p.s. my parts catalog lists six different part number for the solenoids:
05103756AA for the slider, 05133998AA for the rear,
and four different ones for the front doors:
"Without convenience locking system:" 05133510AA (right), 05133511AA (left)
"With convenience locking system:" 05133512AA (right), 05133986AA (left)

p.p.s. my belated apologies to whitedog... i never saw/noticed his follow-up question.
Could he jury-rig something that would satisfy the TCM?
Probably (i wonder if it would notice the missing solenoid?).
Would the jury-rig "cause trouble"? Hopefully not.
Just looking at the slider's diagram, the BK/RD (Passenger Door Unlock (+)) would want to connect to YL/RD (Right Sliding Lock Sense).
But what i don't know is whether the CTM would get upset if it didn't see that connection Open when it tried to unlock the door... would it then try to fire the solenoid again to achieve its goal? Repetitively?
 
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