Conversion to Biodiesel

suzieque

Member
I've been reading about the use of biodiesel in the om642 and as most are aware, the North American owners manual suggests no more than 5%.

So why the limitation? We know the price of crude is going nowhere but up.

I suspected the DPF as being the issue, so I read an article on the DPF and biodiesel...
http://biodieselmagazine.com/article.jsp?article_id=1247&q=&page=all

Essentially, biodiesel is good for the DPF.

Moving along, it seems biodiesel is bad for motor oil when the biodiesel makes it way into the crankcase via post-injection.
http://biodieselmagazine.com/article.jsp?article_id=2290&q=&page=1

My understanding is that post-injection occurs as a result of the om642 when it begins the regen process to clean the DPF. So even though the DPF is biodiesel compatible, the post-injection process leaks biodiesel into the crankcase and slowly kills the lubrication properties of the 229.51 motor oils? Has anyone else seen similar claims?

If this is true, then my guess is that a DPF elimination or "switch" via reprogramming the ECU is required to stop regens while biodiesel is in the tank. Does that make sense or am I on the wrong track? :thinking:
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Mercedes has the engines to run on 100% bio-diesel fuels not in the N/A market .
however the ecu is altered and the head design plus injectors and fuel rail pressure is altered
I belive you'd be wasting your time trying to duplicate it.
NCV is now 7% Bio it will tolerate 10% the reason in part for a low count is based on a non unified standard for bio type fuel mixes. which have different reactions to base fuels bio mass types as to formulates , they are all different.
It may be of interest to research as to what what California is doing with Diesel bio mix fuels.
Richard
 

mackconsult

New member
If its only crank case blow by into the motor oil you are worried about, then just do some blackstone sampling between oil changes. :wtf:

This is just one part of burning WVO.

I've been reading about the use of biodiesel in the om642 and as most are aware, the North American owners manual suggests no more than 5%.

So why the limitation? We know the price of crude is going nowhere but up.

I suspected the DPF as being the issue, so I read an article on the DPF and biodiesel...
http://biodieselmagazine.com/article.jsp?article_id=1247&q=&page=all

Essentially, biodiesel is good for the DPF.

Moving along, it seems biodiesel is bad for motor oil when the biodiesel makes it way into the crankcase via post-injection.
http://biodieselmagazine.com/article.jsp?article_id=2290&q=&page=1

My understanding is that post-injection occurs as a result of the om642 when it begins the regen process to clean the DPF. So even though the DPF is biodiesel compatible, the post-injection process leaks biodiesel into the crankcase and slowly kills the lubrication properties of the 229.51 motor oils? Has anyone else seen similar claims?

If this is true, then my guess is that a DPF elimination or "switch" via reprogramming the ECU is required to stop regens while biodiesel is in the tank. Does that make sense or am I on the wrong track? :thinking:
 

knighty

Member
I know a few people who run these on 100% home made bio diesel in the uk who don't have any problems, of the 2 I know well one had done 120k miles the last time I spoke to him, and the other 40k.... all without problems !

blow-by is more of a problem with old worn out engines...

all the guys I know do is change there oil more often.... at 1/2 the manufacturers recommended miles is what most biodiesel people recommend... and that seams to work well :)
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Question are we talking about the biomass variable natural products conversion into bio-diesel fuel sold at the pump
Or using a conversion of vegetable waste oils.
If it is the first ,then Mercedes on the OM 642 is based on 5 to 10% bio-mix.
California has 20% at the pumps and is under no obligation to advise customers that this is guaranteed to be 100% effective for a modern-common rail diesel engine.
There is no question or argument, that a synthetically modified Diesel fuel contain a a variable of 10/ppm diesel with a 20% Bio mix is not arguably a better fuel as to both emissions and lubricity.that is lacking in base heavy crude sulfurous oils.
conversion to synthetically convert requires both hydro cracking and a Fischer tropes process. that produce's a clean base diesel fuel.
Adding a bio mass to convert to bio diesel ..Quote for Mercedes must meet the basic standards EN D14214 including FAME for lubricity.
My question is how will you overcome optimization of the fuel injection system for bio diesel usage.
That is retarding the fuel injection timing by 2 to 3 degree?
To maximize the regulated fuel supply Pizarro injectors are changed.:popcorn:
Richard
 

suzieque

Member
Mercedes has the engines to run on 100% bio-diesel fuels not in the N/A market .
however the ecu is altered and the head design plus injectors and fuel rail pressure is altered
I belive you'd be wasting your time trying to duplicate it.
Richard
Here is another article where BtL was run in the OM642
http://www.baumgroup.de/Renew/download/15 - Degen - slides.pdf

There is no mention of what modifications were done to the engine to support this change in fuel. Do you have an article you can point me to that discusses/lists the modifications done to support 100% biodiesel? My guess is that an engine that is modified to support 100% biodiesel also has to have the capability to run 100% ULSD as well.

By the way, In the short term, I'm interested in straight from the pump biodiesel, not WVO.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Here is another article where BtL was run in the OM642
http://www.baumgroup.de/Renew/download/15 - Degen - slides.pdf

There is no mention of what modifications were done to the engine to support this change in fuel. Do you have an article you can point me to that discusses/lists the modifications done to support 100% biodiesel? My guess is that an engine that is modified to support 100% biodiesel also has to have the capability to run 100% ULSD as well.

By the way, In the short term, I'm interested in straight from the pump biodiesel, not WVO.
I'll chase it up tomorrow as I'm on my laptop.
The reference was from Bosch ,I said Mercedes sorry but Bosch was referring to their system that's on the Mercedes in Europe of which have a different HP rating and fuel pressure etc.
If I can relocate it I'll run the link up.
One way to see how far you could push the limits is start with 10% and build it up watching how it reacts .
Richard
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Here is another article where BtL was run in the OM642
http://www.baumgroup.de/Renew/download/15 - Degen - slides.pdf

There is no mention of what modifications were done to the engine to support this change in fuel. Do you have an article you can point me to that discusses/lists the modifications done to support 100% biodiesel? My guess is that an engine that is modified to support 100% biodiesel also has to have the capability to run 100% ULSD as well.

By the way, In the short term, I'm interested in straight from the pump biodiesel, not WVO.
Just had a quick look at the Polish PDF
Re-read it OM 642 with diesel particulate filter.
Note: the engine is called oztto this is from the Daimler Chrysler sun diesel concept my year 2004 Euro 4
The head was changed, crank offset, Ignition timing, Fuel bar pressures, and the fuel is hydro cracked via Fischer Tropsch process. using the latter fuel synthesizes of chemical conversion Fischer Tropes.
There are a few small U.S privately funded companies using this process for production of bio mass fuels in either feed stock mostly corn based stock,not a good fuel, or the brilliant algie convection.process.
The OM 642 engine is not a NAFTA engine it was experimental for exclusive use of Bio mass fuels.
The EGR system is different to the NAFTA setup.
The ecu fuel system relied on a re programed system using Bosch injection and fuel bar pressurized system for optimization of high pressure fuel burns.
with a 540Nm &160 rpm
As soon as I can find it again Ill run the link up.
This fuel was meant to be available in the USA this year,
However as usual the EPA stalled it by sending Chevron BP Shell back into the courts as to refinery's not metting grwen house gas emissions and environmental standards as to waste water holding tanks/
2012 is the latest you will have to wait for an approved 100%bio fuel direct from the pumps
Richard
 

david_42

Active member
Biodiesel cost more around here (that's with a buck a gallon subsidy) and only a few places carry it. Can't see driving 120 miles for a fill.
 

mackconsult

New member
My Melfry is high quality oil with a fairly low titration level, reflective of how quickly safeway turns their oil.

Appleseed with KOH and methanol, 55 gallon wash barrel.

The price of petro-diesel is the driving force for how quickly I proceed. Mean while I still consume WVO in the van.
 
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Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
LNG CNG
USA can run on this to almost zero particulate matter.
Engine OM 316: Direct spark injection.The fuel to run this was available in the USA.
Mercedes-Benz sprinter EEV (2) (Custom).jpg
 

knighty

Member
I'd love to run dual fuel.... compressed natural gas and diesel at the same time.... but there's not much information available...

would be great to have a compressor at home for refilling !
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
I'd love to run dual fuel.... compressed natural gas and diesel at the same time.... but there's not much information available...

would be great to have a compressor at home for refilling !
Unfortunately that is not possible with diesel
LPG and gasoline yes but requires an advanced head fuel rails and the revised ecu
Sprinter NGT Gas engine
LNG Diesel
MercedesSprinterNGT_01.jpg
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
N/A CAFE-GHG 1249 pages as to the DOT Final-Rule for emissions for 2012-16 stakeholders are preventing this.
aoilpolicy2_1.gif
EEV-2 exceeds 2016 fuel emissions requirements in all Vehicular traffic OF-ON-highway USE.
e85.jpg
RICHARD
 

knighty

Member
Unfortunately that is not possible with dieselLPG and gasoline yes but requires an advanced head fuel rails and the revised ecu
I've seen a lot of big trucks converted over to dual fuel with cng

but.... the system they use doesn't run the engine on one fuel or the other.... there's always diesel being injected into the cylinders as a source of ignition... but then they add natural gas to it...

under normal driving, they use the same amount of diesel for idle/tick over as they do for driving, and all the power comes from how much gas they add in.... but if you put your foot down it can add a lot of both, giving a lot more power too !

it's the same as the lpg systems for diesels I've seen
 
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Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
I've seen a lot of big trucks converted over to dual fuel with cng

but.... the system they use doesn't run the engine on one fuel or the other.... there's always diesel being injected into the cylinders as a source of ignition... but then they add natural gas to it...

under normal driving, they use the same amount of diesel for idle/tick over as they do for driving, and all the power comes from how much gas they add in.... but if you put your foot down it can add a lot of both, giving a lot more power too !

it's the same as the lpg systems for diesels I've seen
Euro is different from the N/A system as it is for Australasia
My references are for Sprinter Diesel engines using the EGR and DPF
Mercedes has used LPG since 1924
However with Gas-Petrol engines Mercedes sprinter Tin 314 Brazil 100% Bio fuel using sugar CANE FEED STOCK.
Mercedes NCV 316 Can start on petrol and run full time on NGT Natural gas technology
Mercedes NCV LNG Liquid compressed Gas
Mercedes CNG Natural coal seam gas compressed to a liquefied state.
In fact and carbon natural or waste product can be converted into LPG
In saying this the N/A sector lacks the infrastructure and the refinery capabilities to actually produce these types of fuels for commercial use on a mass scale that's affordable.
The latter LNG for Gas requires direct Electronic spark ignition no carburetor basically it works the same as a diesel engine.
If you attempted to run a NCV 318 Cdi NAFTA OM 642 with EGR catalytic DPF it will fail.
Euro OM 642 or 651 can be converted but the cost is prohibitive as to altered injectors injection systems fuel tank sensors not plastic but steel crankshaft off set,cams etc.
In reality 4 cylinders are the main steam engines for LNG 1200KLM to a Tank
MIS.jpg
look at the price difference in Melbourne for diesel v LPG
MelbAirport090628.jpg
We have NGT LPG in OZ as Europe does,
Merc1.JPG

sprinter_lower.jpg

The question is how do we get this technology into the States
When stakeholders wont go for it.
Or even the latest nut case from down under who still wears the Daimler Chrysler Badge COE
Ernest Leib.MB USA
Who's primary interest is bigger and more powerful engines
And wants the latest AMG SLR Mercedes to drive to Starbucks on a Sunday morning to get a cup of coffee.
This guy represents Mercedes Sprinters in the USA and still doesn't get it.
ernist.jpg
Fact Gasoline is redundant
Fact Diesel is a commodity driven export by wall St speculators.
bio diesel is too expensive to manufacture on a mass produced scale..
Veggie,well that's for the brave, too many issues in cold climates.
LNG and CNG is cheap will always be, and is available in bulk for global distribution
Richard

 

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