Stupid Camber Is Way Off...

Thank's for all the help... I purchased the 3500 due to the fact that I felt the handling was much better... I own a 30ft Trail Lite travel trailer that I tow quite a bit in the summer months... My Sales rep is a good friend of mine and I told him that I would love to test drive a few sprinters while hooking them up to my travel trailer... I fist hooked it up to 2500 118" High Roof... Took on the freeway with 15-20mph cross winds and the van was all over the place, not stable at all... The next time I test drive a 2500 158 high roof.. Much better handling but didn't have a much cross wind when driving... Then they had a 3500 158 high roof... Hooked my Trailer up and noticed that the back of the sprinter only went down about 2inches... All the other models went down at least 4-6inches... The tounge weight is around 500lbs.. Took it for a test drive and could hardly tell the trailer was back there... There was a good cross wind of 20-25mph and it did pull a little bit but nothing like the 2500's... Also it was only $1800 more than 2500... I was told at the the time they were very rare to find... The rest is history...

Straight question! you have the mid based 3500 Sprinter, towing a 31 ft trailer.
Which model did you get! the one with standard single rear wheels, or dual rear wheels, with front extended hubs?
Each is different ,rear springs two of different axle ratios, and a front axle with wide hub , It is also a heaver axle for load ratings, overall the latter completely changes the configuration for the load balances, for the Sprinter.
Is the towing frequent with the trailer.
Richard

It is the 3500 158" Long Wheel base with dual real wheels... The Travel Trailer weight is right around 4700lbs... Last summer I towed it close to 8000 miles across the usa... Got at 17mpg avg, towning doing 50-55mph... I use to tow it with my Ford F-150 never got above 8mpg.... I never had problems even when I went across the southwest of USA in Aug, 115-120 degrees towing up hills, no overheating even with the ac blowing ice cold... The picture is my Travel Trailer and my 500hp Supercharged Ford F150 ... I love my truck, but not being able to go more than 250miles on 30 gallon tank of gas really ...

500Hp super charged v 156 hp with turbo assist man with the first option you could tow the mountain behind you as well
There should be no issues with sprinter as such, but I was thinking! with both the van and the trailer! are they both level ?with a level-ride stabilizer bar, I'm thinking if not! 'the front end may be too light in the front' and the wheels may be sliding slightly to either side on cornering I've seen this before on many makes of vehicles,
The sprinter has two rear stabilizers, as your van is a 4.5 tonne vehicle in it's original setup providing you have the wide front hubs if not it's a three ton unit and it's running too light in the front for sure, but I still can't work out what was done to the US sprinters as there are three load axle ratings for the front before you hit the four and six tonne units even the back end has different axle ratios springs etc.
The trailer load with brakes that is air brakes assist is set at 2000 kilograms on the entire 3500 series That should be 4409.245 lbs so your on the max for towing.
The specs are from Mercedes-Benz with the 316 -416 CDi engine even the 4-in-line 414 CDi has the same rating
I'm also thinking as to load you have in the back of the van as well if it is with at least a two ton load inboard including the vehicle the weight transfer , with the center of gravity may indicate that rear of the van and the trailer are both off level in a horizontal line until you reach speed of at least 45 miles PH
Just my thoughts of what may have caused your camber to run out
Richard

Not to get to technical, The travel trailer has stablizing bars that I adjust to shift the weight off the hitch... At most the tounge weight might be 200lbs... So there is very little weight pushing the rear down... The towe rating is 5000lbs for USA Sprinters... Also my Travel Trail is only 7 1/2 feet wide so it doesn't cause much wind resistance... I took my Sprinter in on Sat to get a new fuel filter and talked with a sprinter mech... I told him how I was having problem with camber and they took my sprinter and put it on a lift... They measured some distance, and told me that everything is perfect... They also showed me at 3000lbs of cargo the camber will be 0... Right now I have 5degrees of positive camber... So if I am not hauling 3000lbs my camber will be off... He also told me that there is some lawsuit filled agenst Dodge from Fedex and UPS for this reason... The fact that it is set so off from the factory has caused premature tire wear... I will look into the lawsuit, but I haven't heard anything about it...

Interesting I am aware of the Dodge Sprinter Hybrid having the same problem with uneven tire wear.
To clarify all specifications for the US Sprinter are for the 3500 series by cross matching with the Mercedes-Benz site, very little matches with US ratings
Each van in weight class has different front end axle loadings and rear axle loadings
Gross weight... laden and unladen... again vary, by class weight,
Dual wheels with wide h/D front hub has a different rating again.
Dual wheels with standard hubs are mis-configured technically, they do not exist on the Mercedes-Benz site, real dual has wide Front hubs.

Weight class 2,5 ton , 3,5 ton 4,5 ton 5 ton
each has a different load axle rating
each has different rear springs 1 2 3 of
each has a different rear set of stabilizer bars
there appears to be two front struts, different upper ball joints from 95 to 2006 January
because of the Mercedes-Benz having both four cylinder and the 5 cylinder in line model engines, again load axle ratings on the front were accommodated for two types of axle ratings ! Thinking this may not have been done.
When I look at the axle ratings GVW on the 3500 series they simply do not match to Mercedes_Benz data
However as you have not received the 4t models I need to go back to Benz and pick up these from archives, maybe you have the higher ratings , therefore I need to look at the 4 to 5 ratings to see if there is a cross match, as the US does not have the three rear spring set up with H/D stabilizers or all models sprinters from 2002 to 2007 US only modified front end modifications etc.
There is an after market upper tie rod from carquest that resolves part of this issue.
Tire pressure does effect the outer and inner wear factors, I'm guilty on that one, but excessive cornering due to off road cambers can permanently off set the camber on the sprinter.

If I can get the compleate specifcations for the Sprinters I run them up
Richard

Thank you again for all the info... I look forward to what you can come up with...

Following up with a met with the regional Mercedes rep, and with consulting with the Sprinter tech! we have a problem.
Re Mercedes-Benz Sprinters fro weight classifications
The immediate thought was there may have been a typo error in the web site of Dodge.
Cross referencing with both the Euro and Australian Sprinters as to the weight calculations which vary by class 2500 3500 4500 5500 through to 6.9 ton
engines 208 308 311 313 316 413 414 416 to 616 CDi, each engine has a power to weight ratio , each engine has a different front and rear axle ratio to match, especially with the front axle loadings 4 cylinders as an example 208 CDi has a front axle loading of 1460[kg]=3212lbs conversion reference as the lbs is universal and metric is a stand alone equation
1460kg x 2.2 = 3212 lbs
Each model on the US site we looked at 2500 and 3500 should have different ratings on a standard rear single wheel unit with a front standard rim using a 15' rim 16' has a slightly different figure unique to a possible 25 axle combinations ranging from a one ton to seven ton Sprinter.
None of the N/American Sprinters match to the Euro specs, it is obvious that the Kg's and lbs were rounded up to the nearest end number rather than part of as per say 3750.373lbs[example only]
We pulled up a 2500 compliance plate from a used sprinter photo is indicated below
Look at the numbers very carefully, Note: top first number GVWR 3878kg = 8500lbs
GVWR should be 3878 kg = 8531.6 lbs, OK were weight pinching'

There is no known rating from Mercedes-Benz for the 2500 series of 3878 kg it does not exist
Look at this possible equation 3878 kg!!!! 3878lbs not kg divided by 2.2 = 1761.81818 What we now have is thew original front axle loading, for a class 3500 with a 4 cylinder engine not the five in line the front axle loading is 1750 Kg but also used on the 416 dual wheel wide hub front axle units with heavy duty rear springs, three and four of, including front and rear stabilizer bars of a heavier rating, along with front upgraded suspension steering knuckles etc, to match the weight configurations.
This particular plated model of the US sprinter does not have this weight configuration. as indicated on the compliance plate.
Next number second from the top 1761kg =3866lbs should read 1761 kg = 3674.2 lbs
Again there is no reference to the numbers unless it the same front axle loading which is close to the 1750 3500 class model with the wide hub.
Third number from the top
GAWR 2431 Kg = 5360lbs again does not match to the class or numbers
There are no front or rear axle ratings shown on the compliance plate
The figures for the 3500 should be
Front axle loading 1600 kg = 3520 lbs
Rear axle loading 2240 kg= 4928 lbs
Gross vehicle mass 3500 kg = 7700 lbs
Unladen weight......2069kg = 4551.8 lbs
Pay load capacity with on board power brakes 2000 kg = 4400 lbs
There are two hitches and a different weight configuration for the 3500 series if dual rear wheels and wide hub is fitted.
We looked at the compliance plate and the model Mercedes have come to the conclusion it's flawed and not a legal vehicle of compliance in both US FMVSS Standards nor would it comply to Mercedes Specifications
Last picture shows the rear end of the sprinter, as it's not that clear all three parties confirmed by a visual inspection that the rear stabilizer is not for the 3500 series the bend in the center of the diff is wrong and it appears to be for the 2500 model which has the wrong ratings for the model irrespective of the fact that it has a 316 engine, front tire wear is evident but the mileage shown on the vehicle compares to normal wear and tear.
Any thoughts on this as to our conclusions comparing the US Dodge specs v Mercedes Specs

Altered Sprinter said:

Following up with a met with the regional Mercedes rep, and with consulting with the Sprinter tech! we have a problem.
Re Mercedes-Benz Sprinters fro weight classifications
The immediate thought was there may have been a typo error in the web site of Dodge.
Cross referencing with both the Euro and Australian Sprinters as to the weight calculations which vary Any thoughts on this as to our conclusions comparing the US Dodge specs v Mercedes Specs
Richard

Click to expand...

Yes... a comment:

I will post some pictures of my sprinter later on today... Maybe the pictures with the info will help figure out this issue..

Here are some pictures of my tire wear... The last picture is of the rear tire, with plenty of tread left... I have right now about 54k on these tires... Also the spec's for my sprinter are:

GVWR/PNBV 4531KG---9990LB
FRONT GAWR/PNBE 1751KG---3860LB
REAR GAWR/PNBE 3202KG---7060LB

Mgjessop
Now we are cooking you have a 4500 series in part, that I can reference too [tonight]
I will look at my own rating plate , never thought of that untill now
I can see where you have concern with front tires the picture I put in on the 2500 had 78000 miles which personally I thought was brilliant
PS you have the 1750 front axle option wide hub I'll cross ref this later on to see if the rear axle ratio matches, I'm assuming you have dual rears.
Of course he has
Richard
Question how many rear springs two or three, this is important.
have you a thick rear stabilzer bar it's heavier than the 3500 standard model this applies to the front also.Can you compare with a standard 3500 unit with single rear wheels.

I have 3 leaf springs in the rear, with the heavy dudty stablizing bar in the rear with a pretty heafty sway bar in the front... Here in California if you have a vechical that has a gross weight of 10,000lbs or more you must stop at every truck scale on the freeways... That is why I am sure they keept it under 10,000lbs... Remeber if you have a nice 2007 with a gross vechical weight of more than 10,000lbs to stop at those truck scales or risk a nice little fine from the Highway Patrol...

Of course that explains the weight class as Florida has an 8500 GVW on dual axles and with width tracking.
So what we have is a Dodgy Sprinter. with Dodgy ratings, they are not correct to the original specs of Mercedes, I'm curious to know how they moved it around so much, but it must mean the larger RV are totally illegal in some of the states
any of those units with an overhang changes the weight configuration on the rear axles.
Look at this RV it's a 616 CDi has four springs two huge rear stabilizers front and back with equal size in the front, sorry had clean gear on, so I was not about to crawl under it to prove it, but the other photos in the list, of rear end are as similar. the axles and housing is actually shorter than the 3500 series.
2007 model Sprinters are rated 11000+ Lbs the only way to down size is a lower axle rating stabilizers and front suspension de grade, to fake the GVW " But with the V6 a much heavier engine than the 4-in-line that will cause an in balance at the front end, thinking of the harmonic balancer will go nuts with vibrationssssssssss'
This means more future problems with the new sprinters breaking gear
Thank you for your input, it does clarify many thoughts we have had as to the Sprinters in the US having so many problems, that never showed up in the quantities elsewhere, as you had in the US.
We know fuel and oil was in fact part of the blame, because you had the older EGR units , and a poor quality diesel ,suspension problems on the RVs were responsible on Winnie's causing front end problems and rear springs breaking, Mercedes virtually told them to go to hell for the 2007 models as they are well over weight to handle the 3.5 class models long story on that one. I guess we will continue to hear of many other minor problems over this, I hope to God no one gets killed over it in the event of an accident , and some bright investigator works out there are discrepancies to the GVW ratings on the 25000 and 3500 class US vehicles.
Looking at the last set of numbers for weight configurations and then looking on Mercedes Specs, again too far out of configuration , so I'll amuse my self and spend some time over the next few days working it out, somethings been changed to arrive at the US ratings and I can only speculate at the moment.

Well, I did it again. hit some button up in the tool bar, went to some other site, hit the back button and erased a couple of paragraphs....I give up.

Scott yor on IE
Go Like Sprinter man and play with the fire-fox youll have a Devil of a time and lots of fun doing it
Richard

I just checked the front end of my 2004 2500 sprinter. The camber is indeed positive without a load in the back.

I think I'm just going to have to rotate the tires more often.
Or try and shim the lower control arms out as much as possible.

We''l have to check and see what can be done.

if you rotate four times and reverse the tires as well two times 100 thousand could be achieved if you have dual then it has to be done by a tire company.
PS re torque to the manual specs or it will vibrate the nuts loose.
Richard

Altered Sprinter said:

PS re torque to the manual specs or it will vibrate the nuts loose.
Richard

Click to expand...

Dad always wonders why I nearly stand on the end of an 24 inch breaker bar when torquing down wheel nuts. I don't like having any loose ones when I check them a few days later. As for getting them off later, that's what the pipe is for if needed. I've had too many times when a garage put a wheel on with an impact wrench and I couldn't budge it with the breaker bar alown. They like to do this on my pickups. I now carry a 4 foot pipe along with a breaker bar and the right sized impact socket in each of my trucks. I started to do this after I had a time when I was bouncing all my weight on the end of a 4' pipe and it wasn't budging. Adding a feed sack over the sholder and bouncing allot more finally got it to break free. I was shocked the lug bolt didn't break.

- Bryan

Firefox...hmmm

Many garages are famous for over torqueing lug nuts. I've just about blown out a seal myself trying to free up studs on my car let alone my van. Good garages at least use a torque stick (correct name?) It goes between the impact wrench and the wheel bolt. Prevents over tightening.

Like Richard said, torque to spec is all you need. Over tightening damages the wheel, the stud/bolt and the rotor.